Interesting note on eye contact

[On the Inside]

Eye Contact / Submit or Die | Asperger: The HypoSocial Human

Read this blog entry today. Someone linked another post from the same blogger a few days ago. Really interesting content, I've been reading it daily.

I have been getting a lot of flack from partner about eye contact, and this explains clearly what I have been trying to get across to her about why I spend so much time looking elsewhere during our conversations, especially the ones where she is asking a lot of probing questions.

 

[Ylva]

When someone says "look me in the eye" it sounds to me like "let's fight!"

 

[JuniperBug]

This really is an interesting perspective and made me remember some childhood moments. Anyone else remember hearing angry parents or authority figures yelling, "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" ?

 

[Harrison]

This really is an interesting perspective and made me remember some childhood moments. Anyone else remember hearing angry parents or authority figures yelling, "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" ?

Oh yes, I received a few beltings for that one.

 

[On the Inside]

So your responses so far, especially the ones where you were punished in some way for not making eye contact, had me Googling "don't be the first to break eye contact" and this is one site that came up.

Alpha Game: Experimenting with Eye Contact

One excerpt reveals how seriously some people take this "game", especially your typical male:

After a few days of this, something almost magical happens. You notice that men break eye contact before you do, and look to the ground. Forced to look up at you (most will be shorter than you), women return your gaze hungrily, uneasily, wonderment gripping their facial expressions, and if your vision is sharp enough you can make out a nearly imperceptible parting of their lips. You begin to feel dominant. And that feeling translates into real dominance and an attitudinal shift, for above all the thing that is attractive about alpha males is their attitude.

Now, I don't consider myself an "Alpha" nor "Omega" male, I don't see the world that way. But it depresses me to think that there are people out there for whom these rules are of prime importance.

 

[Kari Suttle]

Eye Contact / Submit or Die | Asperger: The HypoSocial Human

Read this blog entry today. Someone linked another post from the same blogger a few days ago. Really interesting content, I've been reading it daily.

I have been getting a lot of flack from partner about eye contact, and this explains clearly what I have been trying to get across to her about why I spend so much time looking elsewhere during our conversations, especially the ones where she is asking a lot of probing questions.

This really is an interesting perspective and made me remember some childhood moments. Anyone else remember hearing angry parents or authority figures yelling, "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" ?

Oh yes, definetally! Just not that specifically though - I was always yelled at for 'not paying attention' or 'not listening'. It was drilled into me from an early age, mostly by school, to look at people when i am being talked to or talking to them so unless I am anxious or upset or being yelled at I have little issues with eye contact. But when I am anxious, upset, or getting yelled at that's when i simply can't do it. I can only do it if i feel fine and even then im not fully comfortable with it.

 

[Ylva]

Now, I don't consider myself an "Alpha" nor "Omega" male, I don't see the world that way.

I'm not sure any of us do. Being aware of the patterns is one thing, living it and emoting according to it is another.

 

[On the Inside]

I'm not sure any of us do. Being aware of the patterns is one thing, living it and emoting according to it is another.

After delving into a few more of the sites that came up from that search showed that it is mostly of interest to people, or young guys particularly, on the "hunt" for dates. That, and people who feel they are in high stakes negotiations. Neither of which are my scenes. All of them, however, mentioned that eye contact can be mistaken for aggression, or creepiness, and thus having a detrimental effect.

So many rules.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I was raised around animals, that's precisely why I don't make eye contact unless I feel confrontational and then I can stare you down like those stubborn goats I've almost literally butted heads with a few times.

 

[tree]

Anyone else remember hearing angry parents or authority figures yelling, "Look at me when I'm talking to you!" ?

My mother, to me--- an alternate variation...."Don't open your eyes wide at me!!!"

'+windowtitle+'

Oculesics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ste11aeres]

Yeah

So your responses so far, especially the ones where you were punished in some way for not making eye contact, had me Googling "don't be the first to break eye contact" and this is one site that came up.

Alpha Game: Experimenting with Eye Contact

One excerpt reveals how seriously some people take this "game", especially your typical male:

After a few days of this, something almost magical happens. You notice that men break eye contact before you do, and look to the ground. Forced to look up at you (most will be shorter than you), women return your gaze hungrily, uneasily, wonderment gripping their facial expressions, and if your vision is sharp enough you can make out a nearly imperceptible parting of their lips. You begin to feel dominant. And that feeling translates into real dominance and an attitudinal shift, for above all the thing that is attractive about alpha males is their attitude.

Now, I don't consider myself an "Alpha" nor "Omega" male, I don't see the world that way. But it depresses me to think that there are people out there for whom these rules are of prime importance.

those guys are so creepy

 

[fredvizsla]

I'm "that blogger" - there was quite a rush of viewers on that post today and I wondered why! Thanks for posting the link. I try to demolish ridiculous ideas about Asperger people - which frequently means taking on psychologists. It's fun!

 

[Ste11aeres]

So your responses so far, especially the ones where you were punished in some way for not making eye contact, had me Googling "don't be the first to break eye contact" and this is one site that came up.

Alpha Game: Experimenting with Eye Contact

One excerpt reveals how seriously some people take this "game", especially your typical male:

After a few days of this, something almost magical happens. You notice that men break eye contact before you do, and look to the ground. Forced to look up at you (most will be shorter than you), women return your gaze hungrily, uneasily, wonderment gripping their facial expressions, and if your vision is sharp enough you can make out a nearly imperceptible parting of their lips. You begin to feel dominant. And that feeling translates into real dominance and an attitudinal shift, for above all the thing that is attractive about alpha males is their attitude.

Now, I don't consider myself an "Alpha" nor "Omega" male, I don't see the world that way. But it depresses me to think that there are people out there for whom these rules are of prime importance.

I read a bit off this site, then realized, it would be hard for someone to try this on me, because I might not even notice they were trying it, because, in order for someone to hold eye contact with me, they have to make eye contact with me. And in order for them to do that, I have to actually be looking at their face.
No, I bet us Aspies throw such people off balance; we are impervious to their efforts, as we innocently stare everywhere but their face.

 

[garnetflower13]

I know that if that person who wrote about making eye contact tried that in the neighborhood my family moved to after my parents divorced, that they wouldn't have made it home in one piece! Even the kids there were confrontational. All you had to do was look in someone's general direction and they would curse at you, and demand to know what the @#* you were looking at!

 

[Suzanne]

I can now look people in the eyes, if they are being friendly. Only sometimes it feels surreal.

I cannot look my husband in the eyes when he is attacking me ie with words or too personal and when he says: Suzanne, look at me, it is even worse.

He even has pointed it out in company. Look how she refuses to meet my eyes and all I want to do, is curl up into a little ball.

Thankfully we are doing ok at the moment and so, eye contact is ok.

 

[Spiller]

I read a bit off this site, then realized, it would be hard for someone to try this on me, because I might not even notice they were trying it, because, in order for someone to hold eye contact with me, they have to make eye contact with me. And in order for them to do that, I have to actually be looking at their face.
No, I bet us Aspies throw such people off balance; we are impervious to their efforts, as we innocently stare everywhere but their face.

A goodly part of the reason I find myself ignored during social events, I think. I'm not 'playing the game', so I'm regarded as an anomaly to be examined - or not, depending on the circumstances - then completely disregarded forever when found to be non-threatening/dominating.
Default social programming?

 

[tachyon]

A goodly part of the reason I find myself ignored during social events, I think. I'm not 'playing the game', so I'm regarded as an anomaly to be examined - or not, depending on the circumstances - then completely disregarded forever when found to be non-threatening/dominating.
Default social programming?

For me it's 'faulty' social programming - and I don't have access to the source code to make changes

 

[Spiller]

For me it's 'faulty' social programming - and I don't have access to the source code to make changes

tachyon, do you consider your AS/ASD a fault?
By default social programming, I was referring to everyone else - NT's have the ability to learn, on a subconscious level, all the rules and etiquette that are incomprehensible to us and so find changing their way of thinking just as difficult, perhaps, as we do.
The 'acceptable way to be' is just the general consensus. That doesn't mean I'm wrong/weird/at fault, just that many people (in my experience) can't or won't accept me for who I am - their loss!
That said, there are those open minded individuals who do accept me and see my difference as just part of who I am; they may not always understand why I think the way I do, but, crucially, they don't mind..
I don't think changing/reprogramming ourselves to fit in is the aim (I used to, but see it differently now), though it seems we have to try to pretend to on occasion, I do believe we share the same goal as everyone else on the planet - to find our place, be happy and make the most of our lives.

 

[tachyon]

tachyon, do you consider your AS/ASD a fault?
By default social programming, I was referring to everyone else - NT's have the ability to learn, on a subconscious level, all the rules and etiquette the are incomprehensible to us and so find changing their way of thinking just as difficult, perhaps, as we do.

This might be getting a little off thread, but -

I don't see my AS as a fault, but I think you could judge my ability be social as being faulty (or defective) when compared to NT superpowers in that area. I believe, however that I have other superpowers that many NT's don't have.

After being diagnosed I started a document that I sometimes add random thoughts to. Below is a copy & paste from it on this subject -

• I have a desire to interact with other humans.
• I find interacting with other humans greatly increases my anxiety level as I am continuously monitoring how I am doing and how well my scripted behaviour and speech is being perceived.
• I am always (ALWAYS) left with the feeling that I spent the whole interaction time trying to give others what they wanted from the situation and getting absolutely none (NONE) of what I would have loved to have gotten from the encounter.
• I see my attempts as pointless.
• I will continue to try regardless.
• I don’t get a feeling of belonging from social encounters.
• I will continue to try regardless.

I don't seriously think I could re-program myself, but I really would love to experience for 24 hours how normal people feel. I wouldn't want it to be longer than that because I wouldn't want to give up any of my AS traits (and certainly wouldn't want to develop an interest in celebrities )

Thank you - I like your posts.

 

[Spiller]

• I have a desire to interact with other humans.

• I find interacting with other humans greatly increases my anxiety level as I am continuously monitoring how I am doing and how well my scripted behaviour and speech is being perceived.

• I am always (ALWAYS) left with the feeling that I spent the whole interaction time trying to give others what they wanted from the situation and getting absolutely none (NONE) of what I would have loved to have gotten from the encounter.

• I see my attempts as pointless.

• I will continue to try regardless.

• I don’t get a feeling of belonging from social encounters.

• I will continue to try regardless.

Yes, surprisingly (or not, heh) similar to my experiences in the social arena.
I find interaction with others vital to my mental/spiritual health, rarely feel I've accomplished any true interaction and can't give up!
It's the exceptions I keep trying for though.
I see now that the difficulty is due to others' limited perception of me and the unfortunate reality is that I'm in the minority so I generally get the rough end of the deal.
Just my opinion, but I'd rather have normal people experience what it is to have AS/ASD for 24 hours as it seems to me that being neurotypical can be extremely limiting and stressful..
(Honestly not NT bashing here - I don't mean that this applies to everyone all of the time, I have in mind all the young guys I see paying back huge loans so they can drive status symbols around so others think they're worthy. I'd rather know my own worth by my thoughts and deeds.. if I want a nice car, I'll save up till I can afford one.)
I find it hard enough just being the odd one out, without having to experience the social pressure of conforming to the majority view. Let the majority know what it is to feel the liberation of true non-conformity.. might be a lot of celebs and program makers out of jobs after that though..