new relationship and ghosts of anxieties past

[BirdsNest]

Heya,

Just a bit of background info before I go into my current situation, since its relevant. There are lots of similar problems in this relationship as per my last -or at least it feels that way but I've been stung so not sure what is what really. I'm a self-diagnosed AS.

My last relationship ended badly. In a nutshell I never really got the time or attention I needed to feel fully comfortable, and my so-called partner ignored my requests to meet me in the middle. I was able to reconcile the differing needs to some degree and wrote off the lack of attention as being a product of his Asperger's and also having a busy job.

However that all went to down the pan, and fairly quickly. Firstly I found his ex's hair in his bed - he insisted she stopped over while he was away with work. A few weeks later I had a nasty surprise as I found out he spent Christmas with her, and not with his brother as he had led me to believe. He insists they are just friends. Maybe he was cheating on me, maybe he wasn't. I'll never know. I'm not even against open relationships but his lack of honesty and flagrant disregard for my feelings was the issue. So I left him. In the end I just felt stupid for not leaving him sooner.

Ok so thats that.

Currently?

I'm now seeing someone else, after a few cautious dates with others over 6 months it was nice to meet someone I clicked with and could connect with- which is rare.

The guy I'm seeing now says he's a massive introvert and his a bit eccentric- actually I strongly suspect he has AS. I joked about it once and he said he doesn't have AS. He often seems overwhelmed with stress and anxiety and this makes him retreat further into himself, among other things.

We have an agreement that this is an open arrangement. He's been seeing someone long-distance for many years - the relationship sounds pretty turbulent for much of the time. Personally I wouldn't want a relationship with that much contention or distance.

My AS traits mean that I don't like not knowing what to expect- specifically if/when I am going to see someone again. I've always found this hard but after my last relationship this is even harder. Current person says committing to this is hard because he doesn't know how he is going to feel due to his need to retreat and doesn't want to mess me around/let me down. He rarely initiates conversations or hangouts, although more often that not comes along and seems happy and comments that he leaves my company feeling relaxed. A bit of positive reinforcement or enthusiasm from his side would go a long way to quelling some anxieties that are building up with regards to how much I am valued.

He does come across as self-absorbed, he knows this but I don't think he fully understands the consequences of it. That has been a bit of a double-edged sword. I've been guilty of projecting onto him and making assumptions about the degree of severity, then felt guilty for assuming the worst having been proven wrong. Although sometimes he is being more self-involved than he realizes. When I last saw him, he said I made him feel awful because "Why would you want to spend time with me if you think I am really that self-absorbed?". That was an awkward and emotionally complicated situation that I didn't know how to deal with so I skimmed over it.

When I last asked him if we could spend time together he refused to agree to anything citing that I didn't understand how much alone time he needs, he reminded me I'd said at the start I only wanted a casual thing. I explained that my feelings had changed since we had started to get to know one another properly. We've agreed to meet in a few days and chat in person as that is a stupid conversation to have over text messages.

As a plus we have been able be open and talk about things, he's good at initiating the kind of conversations I try to avoid. Its uncomfortable but healing for me.

The fact is however that I don't see him as much as I'd like and combined with a reluctance to make future arrangements creates a lot of anxieties within myself. I find these anxieties difficult to keep in-check, the early stages of dating are often a struggle for me for this reason- I don't know how to cope with it really and usually end up pushing people away. I'm aware that I have trust issues that I need to keep in check as well. I'm now also hurt that he seemed to be saying he doesn't have time for me. I have a hard time not catastrophising relational issues due to my own AS traits.

Yesterday I thought I was probably going to have to dump him but now its written out I am a bit more hopeful that there is something we can talk about and resolve here. Now I wonder if I hurt him more than he let on with the being self-involved thing and that is making him distance.

 

[Suzanne]

We have an agreement that this is an open arrangement. He's been seeing someone long-distance for many years

Means that even if YOUR feelings have changed, his has not changed.

It seems to me that you both have different emotional goals going on. He already has an emotional bond with another, even if it is rocky, so the fact that at the beginning you both agreed that it was going to be an open arrangement, means that there is no room for trust or distrust, because you broke the boundries.

 

[pamelaperejil]

I've never voted an OP as the "winning" post before.

Seriously though, misgivings aside, it seems like you've kind of got this. You seem mature, articulate, self aware, ready to communicate and do the emotional grunt work and give-and-take that the relationship requires. I'm confident that if it's possible to make this one work, you will. Maybe it's won't be possible because you just want different things, and that's okay too.

I don't know what advice to give you. Perhaps only to keep the lines of communication open throughout these difficulties instead of freezing up and shutting down if you're upset, and the same goes for him. Which is not to say you shouldn't try to cool down first before discussing any problem, of course.

If he needs more space than you're comfortable giving, would exchanging emails or skype be an acceptable alternative to not engaging? Other than that, you seem to have a good grip on things. Good luck to you.

 

[tree]

So you've talked yourself into feeling that
this kinda-sorta thing really works for you?

*When I last saw him, he said I made him feel awful because
"Why would you want to spend time with me if you think I am really that self-absorbed?".*

I was wondering about that, too.

 

[BirdsNest]

So you've talked yourself into feeling that
this kinda-sorta thing really works for you?

*When I last saw him, he said I made him feel awful because
"Why would you want to spend time with me if you think I am really that self-absorbed?".*

I was wondering about that, too.

More specifically a casual "just a fling" has become a "oh hey, actually we get along pretty well and I no longer would file away this relationship as being that and that alone." aka open to exploring the option of developing things further. Subtle difference.

As I said I've got a bunch of hangups from the bad relationship mentioned in the opening post. Sadly that relationship gave me some baggage and trust issues, which I'm aware I'm bringing to this one. Trying to keep that in check.

To be honest the comment highlighted here "Why would you want to spend time with me if you think I am really that self-absorbed?" was something as a result of a slight mis-communication. We did talk about it. Let me explain.

I'd been through something really awful since I'd last seen him, literally hellish. I'd told him things had been difficult but I think the gravtias was lost on him - or I wasn't clear enough. I have this thing that says I don't get listened to and I'm not important so sometimes I'm very casual about very serious things. When we met he did lots of talking about himself and I got frustrated because this situation had been extremely difficult and I needed to talk about it. Anyway I just butted in and de-railed his conversation, which upset him. (Hence: "Why would you want to spend time with me if you think I am that self absorbed?") We talked about this and I figured I should have been more patient or at least more clear that I needed to get something off my chest. He didn't understand how much I was being consumed by my own troubles.

That said I did have this outburst that really took me aback, at that moment when he called me out on interrupting him and questioned why I was spending time with him. I was livid and said something like; "If I've offended you that much, then just leave. Nobody is making you stay here and spend time with me. If you don't want to be here, then just go." Thankfully I talk quietly most of the time so he didn't hear a thing. :/ I managed to come to my senses a bit and instead ask if he was offended - loud enough so he could hear- and we talked things over a bit.

Anyway it was a pretty strong emotional reaction, not warranted and totally out of kilter with the current circumstances - clearly a ghost from my last relationship where I felt pretty unwanted and not good enough a lot of the time.

The only other times I've had a similar reaction to something like that has been with a therapeutic psychoanalyst. 'Transference'. I did feel that intense level of personal scrutiny. Anyway it isn't fair on him if I am consistently expecting the worst of him and I've caught myself out in other instances doing similar, although this is the most extreme example.

He is a bit self-involved but nobody is perfect. It came off as worse in the begining as he made (jokes?) about being a narcissist and I took him at his word. As mentioned before he's got problems with anxiety and depression and these can be overwhelming. I come with my own issues as well and I wouldn't dismiss someone quickly on this basis alone, especially considering I've clearly got some projection issues going on.

 

[Tom]

We have many people like yourself come here with complicated stories of troubled relationships with people who are or who just might be on the spectrum. Almost daily it feels like lately. We are at a loss really to provide much assistance. None of us here, that I know of are mental health professionals. We are better suited to sharing experiences & lessons learned with one another.

My short answer here is to suggest he follow up on the suspected autism and drop it all. He does not seem ready to hold up his end of a fair relationship. He has a lot of work to do, with himself. Only he can do it.

 

[tducey]

To bad to hear this, hope it all works out but yeah I suggest you see a relationship counselor.

 

[Fitzo]

I don't know if this is something you have considered, but it sounds to me like you seem to choose people who aren't really available and then try to change them. This sounds like a recipe for disaster IMO.

Could you unconsciously be trying to "fix" your childhood in adulthood? Just a thought!

 

[elspeth]

You detailed the situation but my thought when reading what you'd wrote is that there was little to indicate what you get out of the relationship. As Marie Kondo would say (yes, very cheesy) does your relationship with this man spark joy?

It was noteworthy to me that you mentioned that he comes away from having seen you feeling more relaxed, but as he's a pretty anxious person (which in my experience can be a very palpable emotion that doesn't quite stay with the anxious person) I wondered how you come away feeling.

Although you agreed to it, you also don't seem comfortable with the open relationship - or at least not with the consequence of it that your relationship with him doesn't get full focus. If nothing else, it sounds as if the other woman with which he is involved and that relationship will get more focus because there is just much more drama and upheaval there.

When you spoke of possibly having to dump him you then very quickly referenced his feelings (you possibly having hurt him). What's best for you? Again, what are you getting out of this relationship? What does this guy do for you?

And what is he doing for you that you could not find from someone else who might pay more attention/give more reassurance/be all in?

You said that you suspect he may be an undiagnosed autistic even though he's resistant to that thought.

My own relationships with guys who I would bet on being autistic (though they were undiagnosed)- I'm not autistic but not allistic either - have involved very often having to be intentional about getting the guys attention.

Obviously, each person with autism is different but in my experience, my beaus defaults were self-focus (or maybe more accurately just that they were very self-contained), focus on their routine or on their special interests which meant pretty regular literal and figurative taps on the shoulder to get and keep their attention.

In your case, things seem broader than that, although that kind of self-focus/self-sufficiency may be a factor here. This sounds more a structural question -- this guy is involved in two relationships, one of which is long-standing and very emotionally involving and long-distance to boot (which takes more effort and attention to keep going).

And then again -- there is just the very real question of YOU and how you benefit from the relationship.


,

Heya,

Just a bit of background info before I go into my current situation, since its relevant. There are lots of similar problems in this relationship as per my last -or at least it feels that way but I've been stung so not sure what is what really. I'm a self-diagnosed AS.

My last relationship ended badly. In a nutshell I never really got the time or attention I needed to feel fully comfortable, and my so-called partner ignored my requests to meet me in the middle. I was able to reconcile the differing needs to some degree and wrote off the lack of attention as being a product of his Asperger's and also having a busy job.

However that all went to down the pan, and fairly quickly. Firstly I found his ex's hair in his bed - he insisted she stopped over while he was away with work. A few weeks later I had a nasty surprise as I found out he spent Christmas with her, and not with his brother as he had led me to believe. He insists they are just friends. Maybe he was cheating on me, maybe he wasn't. I'll never know. I'm not even against open relationships but his lack of honesty and flagrant disregard for my feelings was the issue. So I left him. In the end I just felt stupid for not leaving him sooner.

Ok so thats that.

Currently?

I'm now seeing someone else, after a few cautious dates with others over 6 months it was nice to meet someone I clicked with and could connect with- which is rare.

The guy I'm seeing now says he's a massive introvert and his a bit eccentric- actually I strongly suspect he has AS. I joked about it once and he said he doesn't have AS. He often seems overwhelmed with stress and anxiety and this makes him retreat further into himself, among other things.

We have an agreement that this is an open arrangement. He's been seeing someone long-distance for many years - the relationship sounds pretty turbulent for much of the time. Personally I wouldn't want a relationship with that much contention or distance.

My AS traits mean that I don't like not knowing what to expect- specifically if/when I am going to see someone again. I've always found this hard but after my last relationship this is even harder. Current person says committing to this is hard because he doesn't know how he is going to feel due to his need to retreat and doesn't want to mess me around/let me down. He rarely initiates conversations or hangouts, although more often that not comes along and seems happy and comments that he leaves my company feeling relaxed. A bit of positive reinforcement or enthusiasm from his side would go a long way to quelling some anxieties that are building up with regards to how much I am valued.

He does come across as self-absorbed, he knows this but I don't think he fully understands the consequences of it. That has been a bit of a double-edged sword. I've been guilty of projecting onto him and making assumptions about the degree of severity, then felt guilty for assuming the worst having been proven wrong. Although sometimes he is being more self-involved than he realizes. When I last saw him, he said I made him feel awful because "Why would you want to spend time with me if you think I am really that self-absorbed?". That was an awkward and emotionally complicated situation that I didn't know how to deal with so I skimmed over it.

When I last asked him if we could spend time together he refused to agree to anything citing that I didn't understand how much alone time he needs, he reminded me I'd said at the start I only wanted a casual thing. I explained that my feelings had changed since we had started to get to know one another properly. We've agreed to meet in a few days and chat in person as that is a stupid conversation to have over text messages.

As a plus we have been able be open and talk about things, he's good at initiating the kind of conversations I try to avoid. Its uncomfortable but healing for me.

The fact is however that I don't see him as much as I'd like and combined with a reluctance to make future arrangements creates a lot of anxieties within myself. I find these anxieties difficult to keep in-check, the early stages of dating are often a struggle for me for this reason- I don't know how to cope with it really and usually end up pushing people away. I'm aware that I have trust issues that I need to keep in check as well. I'm now also hurt that he seemed to be saying he doesn't have time for me. I have a hard time not catastrophising relational issues due to my own AS traits.

Yesterday I thought I was probably going to have to dump him but now its written out I am a bit more hopeful that there is something we can talk about and resolve here. Now I wonder if I hurt him more than he let on with the being self-involved thing and that is making him distance.

 

[BirdsNest]

Think I'm just gunna have an in-person chat with him tomorrow and take it from there.
I don't need to make any decisions until after that. Holding onto things lightly and keeping an open mind 'n' all that. I appreciate it might not work out.

Didn't want to blab on about the things that I enjoy about his company because I wanted to focus on the issues and I guess I assumed these were self-evident. Its a bit boring seeings posts about how well people get along and how great the sex is before going on and on into long complicated problems.

In a nutshell I would surmise the good as:
can have an actual real conversation about deep scary emotional things,
can have great intellectual conversations about other things that deeply interest me,
creates an environment where its ok to be myself as someone with HFA. still struggling to 'come out' as HFA
shared dark/sarcastic/surrealist sense of humor,
brings out the playful and optimistic side to my character,
encourages the tenacious side to my personality,
an admirable and inspirational sense of moral fortitude/has values I respect,
great sex,
comfortable silences,
I can maintain my independence,

So yeah, while this relationship is problematic its not unsubstantiated.
While he's anxious I haven't noticed myself picking up on that yet.

I've always had a need to be challenged to grow in some form. I tend to regard problems in this way - that said I'm aware that sometimes its too much to ask of yourself and you're better off leaving.

 

[elspeth]

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such an in-depth way. It's good that there is a list of things that you like/do benefit you about him and the relationship.

I understand now why you didn't include that list in your initial post. In talking with others sometimes the list isn't forthcoming because they haven't thought through those points or are prioritizing the other person in the relationship. So, glad that's not the case here.

Good luck with talking with him. I still think that the other relationship he has may be an issue (as to why he maybe doesn't seem as all in as you might like) - but hopefully he feels as you do about the relationship (as in there being things about it that make it something to keep and work at).

Think I'm just gunna have an in-person chat with him tomorrow and take it from there.
I don't need to make any decisions until after that. Holding onto things lightly and keeping an open mind 'n' all that. I appreciate it might not work out.

Didn't want to blab on about the things that I enjoy about his company because I wanted to focus on the issues and I guess I assumed these were self-evident. Its a bit boring seeings posts about how well people get along and how great the sex is before going on and on into long complicated problems.

In a nutshell I would surmise the good as:
can have an actual real conversation about deep scary emotional things,
can have great intellectual conversations about other things that deeply interest me,
creates an environment where its ok to be myself as someone with HFA. still struggling to 'come out' as HFA
shared dark/sarcastic/surrealist sense of humor,
brings out the playful and optimistic side to my character,
encourages the tenacious side to my personality,
an admirable and inspirational sense of moral fortitude/has values I respect,
great sex,
comfortable silences,
I can maintain my independence,

So yeah, while this relationship is problematic its not unsubstantiated.
While he's anxious I haven't noticed myself picking up on that yet.

I've always had a need to be challenged to grow in some form. I tend to regard problems in this way - that said I'm aware that sometimes its too much to ask of yourself and you're better off leaving.

 

[BirdsNest]

Sooooo gossip-mongers An update.

We had a chance to talk things through - embedded within a normal hangout, which was great as it took a lot of the pressure off. We both had a lovely evening together, talked about us and also ourselves and also life, got drunk and had a laugh, left the pub holding hands and went our separate ways.

If anything, when we parted ways I felt much closer to him and more affection than I have before. Which is kinna annoying.

Anyway its off for the moment, I think he does really like me but at present doesn't feel he can't cope with much beyond where we were. (RE: Depression/anxiety.) Mentioned I suspected he was AS, he wasn't convinced and is quite knowledgeable on the topic. After talking, I am not convinced anymore either.

Not sure how much longer he will be with this other woman, he said his heart wasn't in it anymore and hadn't been for some time. I've been in a similar position and know how hard it can be to leave someone when they're basically your best mate. I just told him about my last relationship and how it basically sucked the life out of me without me even realizing - leaving it, although difficult, was very freeing. He said he feels lonely and does want a partner who he feels more connected to.

He wanted to be mates but I wasn't sure on the idea and said no. Going into murky territory there... don't trust myself not to get drunk and sleep with him. Ha. Open to picking up where we left off but only if he seems really keen. Told him this straight-up.

So, there we go. Sad but.... this one might come back.

 

[BirdsNest]

Well; update.

--The other woman is out of the picture, he ended it, at least for now. (its been on/off for ages so maybe they'll go back into their unsatisfying dynamic)
--I was the victim of an unprovoked assault while we were in a pub, and he totally sprung to my defense. very chivalrous. He was there for me in exactly the way I'd want my partner to be there for me.
--I still suspect autism or Asperger's, depression.
--He apologized for pushing me away buuuut....
--I'm still all of the initiating communication, although last time we hung out he thanked me for inviting him out and admitted to being poor at these things. Said he needed someone who got him out the house more and gave him food. I can do both of those things.

However currently I haven't heard from him in about a week- he hasn't even _opened_ my last 2 text messages. I've hidden my last online and read receipts because it was driving me bonkers.

Until a few days ago, and the continued lack of communication, I felt we were in a good place.
Now filled with anxiety.

Will I/won't I call?
This damn analytical brain of mine just won't let it be.
I keep turning details over.

Hard to get past the hurt of not being responded to, even though there is probably nothing wrong and its probably nothing personal. I expect he's just in his head and coping with a depressive episode.

Damn pride says don't call.
Anxiety says call and clear the air - even if he tells you to shove off then at least you know.
Other anxious brain says don't call you'll push him away.
Another anxious brain says don't call you'll get sucked into going with the flow when really this isnt ok with you at the moment. How can you reasonably call someone and be annoyed with them for not calling?
Rational brain says let it be he will come around when he is ready.
Other rational brain says call and have a reasonable and adult conversation to clear the air.

Sadly nobody can advise me I've just got to sit with this hurricane in my head and figure it out. Hence the brain-dump on here, it does help clarify things.