Calling all Neurotypicals (and others): Could we use this here?

[Warmheart]

I miss Adam. He taught me a lot. He made this place feel like home.

 

[Nadador]

I'll buy that. Although no post in the world ever includes all the details. All a post can really tell me is "what does the poster want me to know about them?" The post doesn't really tell me about the problem. So, in counseling, we are told not to fix the problem--the person already has the solution or the capability to solve it, and the responsibility for it. They can't do what they can't think of, so "telling" them doesn't help. Telling ain't training. Raising the best questions we can and then sitting with the discomfort is where we help, by making it easier to think slow. "Alone in the head, slow" often just doesn't work, even if you're not struggling with impulse control.

Brilliant statements, all. Of course we only have the benefit of one [very biased] side of the story, whenever someone posts about a problem, here. The same is generally true in regular life, unless we have the uncommon benefit of input from all concerned. The more disciplined of us will respond to posts from visitors with that in mind. But honestly, I don't feel particularly obligated to be clinical in my responses. If a person wants methodical clinical exploration and feedback, they should have the sense to go to a counsellor. If they come here, they presumably just want opinions of people who share a condition. What I generally try to do is find what are most likely the objective facts that underlie a person's story, and base my response on those, often infusing thoughts from my own history. [As I'm not a counsellor, I have no business posting on situations about which I have no personal experience for insight.] I try to qualify my comments by clearly acknowledging where they are coming from, and that my opinion is just that...my opinion. Anybody who posts here will soon find out that they will receive a range of perspectives. It's up to them to sort and synthesise, and decide what to do next. We give them a starting point, that's all. If they don't know that, I reckon that's their problem.

Sometimes I deliberately but thoughtfully push the envelope with certain posters, for a reason: Nobody likes to hear themselves or their loved one attacked. If my post makes someone feel defencive, that may help sort things out as well. This whole thing is an inexact science. The best any of us can do is use our own judgement.

So if my conclusion about a new poster is <insert scathing remark here>, people like me just need to shut up and leave. But we have to notice the feeling and the thought to do that, which is part of what I'm struggling with now. Hence my enthusiasm for Slithytoves's observation. I can't put my problems away in the blink of an eye when I'm ambushed, even when theoretically I agree I should and in fact do want and welcome counseling opportunities. I can't flip to counselor on command, or stimulus, or whatever, I have to be ready to pick up the responsibility and the mindset that goes with it first.

When in doubt, keep your mouth shut? That's always worked for me. Except when it hasn't. It took me a while to get the hang of this, not being a naturally social person. To my list of roles on AC, I should well have mentioned "student" and "patient".

I'm a scrum master, temporarily working as a business analyst. PM me if those syllables don't make sense. Really appreciate your points. It's taken me quite a long time to think through your points. One of them was so compelling I'm not done with it yet.

So you're essentially a facilitator. That's an admirable and often thankless role, for the importance of it. It takes a certain sort of person to do that. We need good ones. Sounds like you are.

I'm curious to know which point has got you pondering.

 

[Nadador]

I miss Adam. He taught me a lot. He made this place feel like home.

Thank you, Warmheart. I really need to encourage him to come back.

 

[royinpink]

Good points about likely NT attitudes when visiting here.

NT loved ones likely don't realise that they, too, have special needs when involved with one of us. I think it behooves us to make that clearer. We, ourselves can't give them all they need, as we can't fully grasp it. Other NTs in similar situations, however, can empathise properly. But how are they to find each other?

You've made excellent points in all of your posts on this thread. I'd like to comment more to you, for that, but honestly, you said everything so well that there's little left to add. Brilliant.

Thanks so much, I'm flattered. And I like how you put that they have special needs when involved with us.

 

[AdamR]

I'm late enough to the conversation that all the best reasons have been offered, but I'd like to say a dedicated sub-forum for NTs is a brilliant idea. I could have used it when I first came here. It was awkward feeling like I was just about the only NT present. I have mixed feelings about the idea of specially marking us, though having a hub to attract us together would be a lovely way for us to at least identify each other, and to help you identify us.

If it helps, one thing that kept me coming back, at first, was the kind attention of some regular members. When I saw a person with a high number of posts answering my messages, it was a signal that I was truly welcome. Another aid to my comfort here was the gentle approach many members took to my questions. We NTs aren't accustomed to being the minority and don't always know how to take unfettered Aspie honesty. Even if we have a straight-talking Aspie in our lives, we may still not know what it means when we see it here. I'm not suggesting you overindulge us. Perhaps a small disclaimer that you mean no harm when you make a strong point would be enough.

A question, though: In honesty, do you really want NTs to stay en masse? Nobody has raised this point, as I'm sure you are reluctant to appear anti-NT, but to what extent do you feel comfortable with the idea of having a sizeable population of us in one of the few places where you can be yourselves?

I'm sorry this happened. I've really enjoyed his posts when I found them. One of them in particular was really helpful since I happened to read it at a good moment.

Thanks, Aspergirl. I've been around reading here and there, and I've found help in some of your words, as well.

I'm happy I said something useful. More often than not I'm a bag of wind.

I miss Adam. He taught me a lot. He made this place feel like home.

You're such a warm heart, Warmheart. Being missed by you is an honour.

 

[Harrison]

I'm late enough to the conversation that all the best reasons have been offered, but I'd like to say a dedicated sub-forum for NTs is a brilliant idea. I could have used it when I first came here. It was awkward feeling like I was just about the only NT present. I have mixed feelings about the idea of specially marking us, though having a hub to attract us together would be a lovely way for us to at least identify each other, and to help you identify us.

If it helps, one thing that kept me coming back, at first, was the kind attention of some regular members. When I saw a person with a high number of posts answering my messages, it was a signal that I was truly welcome. Another aid to my comfort here was the gentle approach many members took to my questions. We NTs aren't accustomed to being the minority and don't always know how to take unfettered Aspie honesty. Even if we have a straight-talking Aspie in our lives, we may still not know what it means when we see it here. I'm not suggesting you overindulge us. Perhaps a small disclaimer that you mean no harm when you make a strong point would be enough.

A question, though: In honesty, do you really want NTs to stay en masse? Nobody has raised this point, as I'm sure you are reluctant to appear anti-NT, but to what extent do you feel comfortable with the idea of having a sizeable population of us in one of the few places where you can be yourselves?

I think en masse may be a little extreme, I'm sure if we see their numbers growing significantly I can get a Royal Decree to do some culling. Blighters will be wanting their own sub foru... oh.

Good to see you back by the way.

 

[Tia Maria]

I was going to post when this first came up here that I didn't think it's needed to open a sub-forum for NT discussions. So I guess I'll chime in now to say I don't think it's really needed, & maybe not a good idea. Although I understand the reasoning behind the suggestion & think it was a thoughtful idea & sentiment. But without giving detailed explanation, I would just say, maybe not a great idea.

 

[Tia Maria]

One needs a LOT of patience around you guys ...... & you probably feel the same way.

 

[Harrison]

One needs a LOT of patience around you guys ...... & you probably feel the same way.

Yup

 

[Spiller]

A question, though: In honesty, do you really want NTs to stay en masse? Nobody has raised this point, as I'm sure you are reluctant to appear anti-NT, but to what extent do you feel comfortable with the idea of having a sizeable population of us in one of the few places where you can be yourselves?

Hey Adam, good to see your.. that's a Fraggle isn't it?.. again
I think it'll just be the NT's that feel they have a reason to be here, because they want and/or need to be, that stay. I'd like to think that beneficial traits rub off both ways when you have a decent mix or ratio of 'types' of open minded people rather than, as I'm all too used to myself, being the odd one out.

 

[Warmheart]

I am happy to see you here, Adam.

It's challenging for NTs to understand us, with our communication glitches. Here, in text-based format, we can allow our impressions and insights to flow a bit more freely than we might in face to face encounters. Perhaps NTs can get more in-depth answers to their ASD-related questions here, and we can feel understood. There seems to be curiosity, appreciation, and respect on both sides.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

I have mixed feelings about the idea of specially marking us, though having a hub to attract us together would be a lovely way for us to at least identify each other, and to help you identify us.

I've been uneasy with the 'marker' idea. I'd prefer to leave it up to the NTs to call themselves out. It's not as if it's going to be a secret; if you post enough, you'll tend to out yourself. As either Nadador or Spiller said about gender: "AHA! I was right!" In any case, the bigger issue is about getting on with other human beings, whatever their mindmap looks like.

If it helps, one thing that kept me coming back, at first, was the kind attention of some regular members. When I saw a person with a high number of posts answering my messages, it was a signal that I was truly welcome.

That was my experience also. I pay attention to my karma ratio, it's the thing that tells me from one day to the next if I'm delivering value that justifies the space I take up in time (and screen inches). I post a lot, but it doesn't matter unless my posts deliver value to someone besides myself.

Another aid to my comfort here was the gentle approach many members took to my questions. We NTs aren't accustomed to being the minority and don't always know how to take unfettered Aspie honesty. Even if we have a straight-talking Aspie in our lives, we may still not know what it means when we see it here. I'm not suggesting you overindulge us. Perhaps a small disclaimer that you mean no harm when you make a strong point would be enough.

I'll never forget the experience I had as the temporary escort to the president of Philly's main LGTB organization. I walked into a room with over 80 people in it and immediately spotted the other two "straight" women there. Yes, uncomfortable, especially as several women chatted me up and realized in seconds that I wasn't one of them. Interesting experience.

A question, though: In honesty, do you really want NTs to stay en masse? Nobody has raised this point, as I'm sure you are reluctant to appear anti-NT, but to what extent do you feel comfortable with the idea of having a sizeable population of us in one of the few places where you can be yourselves?

I think en masse will not be a problem, so long as we aren't deliberately targeted and swamped by people who want to complain about us, fix us, preach at us, mock us, willfully refuse to respect diversity, and in general deliver the concentrated unpleasant experience of the worst of our real lives as concentrated cyberbullying. So it might be a good exercise to contemplate policies regarding that, without making it a major concern.

What is intensely valuable is the thoughtful approach and the gentleness without the judgment. I have an example. One of my bosses, after watching me for a couple of months, remarked that I had "vampire chi...'Not that you want to make us your undead minions, but that you can't see yourself as anyone else sees you, so you overestimate your costs to the organization and underestimate the benefits you deliver.'" (I really wish people would understand that ROI on employees is not as simple as saying because you don't match average parameters you cost too much and that's the end of it. You can get any result you want just by paying attention to the wrong ratio.)

I can't get the kind of wisdom my boss had from other aspies. Only an NT can do that.

I believe the kind of people who want help with the aspie-allistic relationship because they've never encountered it may be drawn to a hub--as you've said in your first point. The people who want to go deeper go where they go. And the people whose remarks show that our self-acceptance is not acceptable to them will out themselves. That could be dealt with on a case-by-case basis--if the mods and admins are willing to go there.

Thanks, Aspergirl. I've been around reading here and there, and I've found help in some of your words, as well.

I'm happy I said something useful. More often than not I'm a bag of wind.

The wise are not wise in their own eyes. Their modesty makes hard questions easier to hear and difficult ideas more comfortable to sit with. Thank you for your kind observation. At the end of the day, there is no other reward than to have been the instrument of help.

 

[wyverary]

I do not like the idea of a "marker"--if one is curious they can check the diagnosis status on someone's profile page...no need for it to appear on every post the person makes. Maybe it would be better if our NT friends made more use of the Parenting and Friends/Family sections? Or am I missing something?

Just my opinion, as I am more for the idea of AC becoming more open and diverse, and I'd hate to see any segregation (explicit or implicit) arise here.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I'm late enough to the conversation that all the best reasons have been offered, but I'd like to say a dedicated sub-forum for NTs is a brilliant idea. I could have used it when I first came here. It was awkward feeling like I was just about the only NT present. I have mixed feelings about the idea of specially marking us, though having a hub to attract us together would be a lovely way for us to at least identify each other, and to help you identify us.

If it helps, one thing that kept me coming back, at first, was the kind attention of some regular members. When I saw a person with a high number of posts answering my messages, it was a signal that I was truly welcome. Another aid to my comfort here was the gentle approach many members took to my questions. We NTs aren't accustomed to being the minority and don't always know how to take unfettered Aspie honesty. Even if we have a straight-talking Aspie in our lives, we may still not know what it means when we see it here. I'm not suggesting you overindulge us. Perhaps a small disclaimer that you mean no harm when you make a strong point would be enough.

A question, though: In honesty, do you really want NTs to stay en masse? Nobody has raised this point, as I'm sure you are reluctant to appear anti-NT, but to what extent do you feel comfortable with the idea of having a sizeable population of us in one of the few places where you can be yourselves?



Thanks, Aspergirl. I've been around reading here and there, and I've found help in some of your words, as well.

I'm happy I said something useful. More often than not I'm a bag of wind.



You're such a warm heart, Warmheart. Being missed by you is an honour.

ADAM!! *glomp* Welcome back!

I wouldn't mind if we had more allistic folk hanging around, I'm sure Grumpy Cat gets lonely here by herself with just us twitchy folk to keep her company. And I'm sure some of us could use some pointers on socializing if we had a more balanced population. As it is, we're the blind leading the blind, sharing graphs and data of our analysis during people-watching days.

I remember one forum I visited where I was quite the minority, I loved the Q&A forum where I could ask all sorts of questions I wanted because it was the sanctioned place to ask something no matter how absurd it was and it was the best place to ask some stuff without projecting unintended offense through ignorance. When you're out and about in the main pool, it's kind of expected to know all the rules. When you splash around in the kiddie pool first, nobody minds as much. It's a good place to learn to swim before you get chunked out in deeper water. Worked out well in my case, I got along great on that forum.

 

[On the Inside]

I used to frequent an ADHD forum back when I believed that to be my only problem. There was a sub-forum for partners/spouse support that got a lot of traffic, and good, helpful honest discussion on a variety of questions and situations. It was one of my favorite parts, as I was really struggling to see just how my behavior and traits were effecting my partner.

There was the occasional Ask a Loaded Question and Walk Away type, but for the most part, it was a place where people shared their problems, offered help and solutions or simply some sympathy. Worthwhile, I'd say.