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Calling all Neurotypicals (and others): Could we use this here?

Nadador

Against the current
I have observed a pattern on AC for a while now, and was prompted to start this thread by a couple of posts I read today. It seems that many NTs join up looking for answers about an ASD love interest or family member [more often the former], but they rarely get involved with posts from other NTs with similar questions. For all we know, they may not even see them.

Might AC benefit from a new forum section geared specifically toward NTs with such enquiries, for help from neurodiverse members as well as support and advice from each other? We get so much of this sort of thing that it would seem logical to consolidate them.

I have no authority to start a new section, and I originally intended to post this question on the suggestion board, but then it occurred to me that it might be good to gauge interest first, in a more widely-read location. I won't presume to prescribe what such a section should be called, just suggest that its title should be explicit.

So, what say you?
 
I like the idea, Brent is the person to ask on this as it's above our pay grade to start new sections.

There is a sub thread that doesn't get used much


This is the information-gathering phase of what could very well be a question to Brent. No sense in asking him unless I can demonstrate adequate interest.

I've seen the sub-thread. Individual threads aren't sufficient, in my view, as they can be quickly buried.

Here's hoping this thread generates some feedback, then! ;)
 
Yoo Hoo! Guess who? You probably knew I'd show up. :rolleyes:

I don't usually talk with other NT's (except I have with Plumeria) because we usually come here to get our info from Aspies. If I wanted NT feedback, I ask my friends. NT's can't tell me anything that I already don't know myself. HOWEVER, Plumeria and I have gotten together to discuss certain Aspie behaviors and if each has experienced it with the Aspies we know. I call it "NT smalltalk about Aspies". :p It might be helpful to make it more obvious if a member is NT so other NT's know maybe. Most NT's end up not staying and are only looking for answers to their specific problem. I thought that maybe a "folder forum" would have been nice to gather up all of the NT threads, but like Harrison said it isn't able to be funded and I don't know if it would end up paying for itself.
 
I have observed a pattern on AC for a while now, and was prompted to start this thread by a couple of posts I read today. It seems that many NTs join up looking for answers about an ASD love interest or family member [more often the former], but they rarely get involved with posts from other NTs with similar questions. For all we know, they may not even see them.

Might AC benefit from a new forum section geared specifically toward NTs with such enquiries, for help from neurodiverse members as well as support and advice from each other? We get so much of this sort of thing that it would seem logical to consolidate them.

I have no authority to start a new section, and I originally intended to post this question on the suggestion board, but then it occurred to me that it might be good to gauge interest first, in a more widely-read location. I won't presume to prescribe what such a section should be called, just suggest that its title should be explicit.

So, what say you?


I confess to having some reservations, but I'm cautiously in favor. I don't mind being a part of the 'resource' community for people trying to understand their relationships, I think that's part of what this site does so well.What I would unreservedly support is some kind of inducement for NTs who come here to stay here in conversation beyond their immediate needs. See us as people, and for us to see them as people. Explore more than just one thing. The drop-in-get-my-needs-met-and-leave behavior sometimes feels a little like a more evolved take on "how do I fix my partner or his/her problem"--the very attitude we want to combat. It's mechanical. There are a couple of NTs that have stopped posting and I really do wish they would return...their pieces were thoughtful.
 
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Bridges, yes! I wish to be a part of building them. NTs need our patience, our kindness as they try to understand us. Our groovy neurology is as an entirely different operating system. We can be as baffling to read to NTs as they can be to us. Partners, parents, friends, therapists all need our understanding and compassion. This is a relatively easy way for us to communicate, compared to face to face. Helping each other be understood is a wonderful cause. Sign me up for a positive forum section as this! :)
 
Excellent points, all! I completely agree with the building of bridges and the allocation of a 'Relationship Help' section geared toward NT/ND and ND/ND relationships alike.. I'm positive we can all do with advice at some time in this tricky arena..
I've tried to answer a few posts over time with my honest opinion, albeit based on limited experience as, I know, have others.. perhaps NT members would benefit from a consolidated area enabling exchange of information.. and I think I'd also benefit from the exposure to NT problems, ideas and outcomes..
This gets my vote :)
 
. The drop-in-get-my-needs-met-and-leave behavior sometimes feels a little like a more evolved take on "how do I fix my partner or his/her problem"--the very attitude we want to combat. It's mechanical.

I agree. Communication between NT/Aspie is continuous and a person really needs to hang around for a while to even begin to understand some things.
 
So...trying out a thought. Here are things I'm aware of:
  • Huge membership (7000+?), but relatively small commenting community. Makes me wonder who lurks, who leaves, and why.
  • A lot of energy going into one-off, single-issue fixes on behalf of NTs.
  • A lot of the same questions answered over and over, but not much new depth in discussion.
  • Not enough Grumpy Cats and AdamRs and other NTs hanging around providing a consistent "as I see it" leaven to discussions.
Your mileage may vary!
 
So...trying out a thought. Here are things I'm aware of:
  • Huge membership (7000+?), but relatively small commenting community. Makes me wonder who lurks, who leaves, and why.
  • A lot of energy going into one-off, single-issue fixes on behalf of NTs.
  • A lot of the same questions answered over and over, but not much new depth in discussion.
  • Not enough Grumpy Cats and AdamRs and other NTs hanging around providing a consistent "as I see it" leaven to discussions.
Your mileage may vary!

Hey Aspergirl, would you mind my reflections..
  • I'm aware of AC's policy on not deleting memberships, though why not deactivate members who haven't actively posted for, say, a year.. might make actual membership numbers more realistic.
  • I don't begrudge this for genuine and open requests for help and a dedicated section will certainly allow for commonality of enquiries.
  • Newer members will always bring fresh ideas and original perspectives, Hooray! Though similar questions are inevitable over time..
  • Couldn't agree more! AC wouldn't be the same :)
 
Hey Aspergirl, would you mind my reflections..
  • I'm aware of AC's policy on not deleting memberships, though why not deactivate members who haven't actively posted for, say, a year.. might make actual membership numbers more realistic.
  • I don't begrudge this for genuine and open requests for help and a dedicated section will certainly allow for commonality of enquiries.
  • Newer members will always bring fresh ideas and original perspectives, Hooray! Though similar questions are inevitable over time..
  • Couldn't agree more! AC wouldn't be the same :)

I don't mind reflections, they mean someone's listening ;)

I looked at the policy too, I'm not questioning that at all. Nor do I grudge people asking for help. I'm offering data, not judgment. Judgment comes after a little more data.

And even then judgment is my opinion, it's got no more force than anyone else's.

That said, the behavior that has my attention is my perception that there's a large community that comes for their single-issue fix and then leave (see Nadador's original question that starts this thread).

I agree that new people offer new insights. I disagree that we're getting this from the behavior Nadador remarked on and that I am trying to quantify. I think you're talking about another group that offers insights: people who hang around, lurk a bit, comment here and there, and then, having contributed from their gifts, ask for a gift in return. These are actually the people who I think get the most help, because they are the most inclined to observe and think about what they observe.

I reiterate, this is just my opinion. There are other values in play that I haven't finished thinking through yet...

EDIT:

Valuables Summary:
1. What is the probability that a one-time visitor actually learns that we're not defective but different?
2. As we interact, are we "meeting" each other and getting to know each other better?
3. Are the one-time visitors supporting revenues for the site as measured by page views and click-throughs?
4. Are the insights being generated in the replies, rather than the one-timer posts?
5. What other valuables are being created by this site's social media dynamics?
6. What does it cost to get the value?
 
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I've noticed that NTs often get unnecessarily harsh, sometimes outright hostile, responses when asking questions here. And the people responding in that way usually defend it by saying that they feel as though the only space where they feel comfortable is being invaded.

A section like what is being described could help. The aspies who'd rather not deal with NT questions and concerns can more easily avoid them.

And since a greater percentage of the responses to those questions would be coming from people who are actually interested in helping, rather than getting angry at the person posting them, the NTs who come here might feel more welcome and more willing to stick around and keep learning rather than leaving as soon as their original issue is resolved.
 
Yoo Hoo! Guess who? You probably knew I'd show up. :rolleyes:

...(edit) If I wanted NT feedback, I ask my friends. NT's can't tell me anything that I already don't know myself.

It might be helpful to make it more obvious if a member is NT so other NT's know maybe. Most NT's end up not staying and are only looking for answers to their specific problem.

...(edit) but like Harrison said it isn't able to be funded and I don't know if it would end up paying for itself.

I was counting on it, Angie. ;)

What you can't get from your NT friends is advice on relationships [romantic and otherwise] with Aspies. NTs in "mixed" partnerships are an an even smaller minority than persons with AS. Since AC is a support forum, I see a section for NTs who are in such relationships as a service that would benefit both partners in an AS/NT pairing. For that matter, a place for Aspie parents and family members to ask questions and connect with each other would benefit both Aspies and NTs, as well.

How would you suggest AC make it more plain who is NT? I have a bit of concern about it turning into a "Scarlet N"....

That isn't want Harrison was referring to. "Above our pay grade" refers to a level of authority, not funding.


Bridges, yes! I wish to be a part of building them. NTs need our patience, our kindness as they try to understand us. Our groovy neurology is as an entirely different operating system. We can be as baffling to read to NTs as they can be to us. Partners, parents, friends, therapists all need our understanding and compassion. This is a relatively easy way for us to communicate, compared to face to face. Helping each other be understood is a wonderful cause. Sign me up for a positive forum section as this! :)

Thank you, my Dear. I knew I'd have you in my corner on this. :)


Excellent points, all! I completely agree with the building of bridges and the allocation of a 'Relationship Help' section geared toward NT/ND and ND/ND relationships alike.. I'm positive we can all do with advice at some time in this tricky arena..
I've tried to answer a few posts over time with my honest opinion, albeit based on limited experience as, I know, have others.. perhaps NT members would benefit from a consolidated area enabling exchange of information.. and I think I'd also benefit from the exposure to NT problems, ideas and outcomes..
This gets my vote :)

Cheers, mate. Thanks. :)


I'm aware of AC's policy on not deleting memberships, though why not deactivate members who haven't actively posted for, say, a year.. might make actual membership numbers more realistic.

I tend to agree with this, however, I wonder if AC benefits by numbers in the same way a dating site does. Only a small portion of members counted in the total on a dating site are active, but leaving the rest in the tally helps make the site look impressive to outsiders. If this doesn't matter to Brent, an annual cull could be helpful to us, but I also have to wonder whether or not the software has a built-in option to do this. If the grooming had to be done by hand, that could be a pain in the arse.

This question might be good to float in the suggestions forum. I'd support your bid for an annual pulse check if it were easy enough to do.


I've noticed that NTs often get unnecessarily harsh, sometimes outright hostile, responses when asking questions here. And the people responding in that way usually defend it by saying that they feel as though the only space where they feel comfortable is being invaded.

A section like what is being described could help. The aspies who'd rather not deal with NT questions and concerns can more easily avoid them.

And since a greater percentage of the responses to those questions would be coming from people who are actually interested in helping, rather than getting angry at the person posting them, the NTs who come here might feel more welcome and more willing to stick around and keep learning rather than leaving as soon as their original issue is resolved.

Excellent points, Gonz. Thanks for taking the time. I've noticed that a few members do get a bit snappish with new NTs, though given the nature of our condition, it could be inadvertent. A dedicated space might help remind members to be on their best behaviour.

I have to admit here that I can be a bit gruff with some NTs, myself. I don't want to come off like I'm saying I'm not above it. I do try to temper my delivery, but sometimes a person, Aspie or NT, needs a bit of straight talk to wake them up if they're being a bit dreamy or whingey. It may be hard for some of us to find the line between straightforward and insulting, not to mention that it's subjective.
 
I confess to having some reservations, but I'm cautiously in favor. I don't mind being a part of the 'resource' community for people trying to understand their relationships, I think that's part of what this site does so well.

Would you mind expounding on your reservations?


What I would unreservedly support is some kind of inducement for NTs who come here to stay here in conversation beyond their immediate needs. See us as people, and for us to see them as people. Explore more than just one thing. The drop-in-get-my-needs-met-and-leave behavior sometimes feels a little like a more evolved take on "how do I fix my partner or his/her problem"--the very attitude we want to combat. It's mechanical. There are a couple of NTs that have stopped posting and I really do wish they would return...their pieces were thoughtful.

I am hoping a dedicated section could become such an inducement. As it stands, NT enquiries are spread across several forums. This seems inefficient to me, and I feel we're losing an opportunity to enhance the effectiveness of our site as a resource.

AdamR, my partner, withdrew due to hostility from a small clutch of hostile members. He's naturally scrappy and highly defencive of his mate [I've come under attack a couple of times], so he backed off rather than cause trouble for me or the atmosphere here. He did post a bit recently, but I don't see him returning very seriously, despite the fact that the handful of members in question seem to have gone now.


  • Huge membership (7000+?), but relatively small commenting community. Makes me wonder who lurks, who leaves, and why.
  • A lot of energy going into one-off, single-issue fixes on behalf of NTs.
  • A lot of the same questions answered over and over, but not much new depth in discussion.
  • Not enough Grumpy Cats and AdamRs and other NTs hanging around providing a consistent "as I see it" leaven to discussions.

Point 1. I have discussed this with Slithytoves, a member here who has a great deal of experience running forums. She makes a good point, that it's impossible to properly explore the phenomenon, for the very fact that it's about non-response. She did say some forums send out exit questionnaires to people who quit, but the response rate is poor and most people don't bother to delete accounts upon leaving anyway. It's also possible that some lurkers are Aspies who don't want to socialise, as it's not their nature, but do wish to read as a way of feeling connected to the community, to the extent that they feel able. I guess we'll never know.

Point 2. This is what I'm trying to address with a separate forum. It's likely that most of these people may turn up in a moment of distress, just to vent and gather just a bit of feedback while the incident is hot. In that case, we might give them reason to stay if they saw they could have the support of other NTs in similar relationships/situations. That potential isn't evident just now.

Point 3. I considered a new section as a way to reduce repetition, consolidating attention on existing threads, which might create more depth. Whether it would work or not is a question.

Point 4. The AdamRs and Grumpy Cats aren't currently visible enough for like to attract like, unfortunately. Those two are a rare breed, anyway, interested in being part of our community rather than simply consulting with it. I'm not sure many NTs would want to do what they do here, unless they found a reason to stick around long enough to see us all as people they might like to know better.

Your observations are fantastic, A4H. I've only become aware of you just recently, but I must say, I'm delighted to know you! :)


Valuables Summary:
1. What is the probability that a one-time visitor actually learns that we're not defective but different?
2. As we interact, are we "meeting" each other and getting to know each other better?
3. Are the one-time visitors supporting revenues for the site as measured by page views and click-throughs?
4. Are the insights being generated in the replies, rather than the one-timer posts?
5. What other valuables are being created by this site's social media dynamics?
6. What does it cost to get the value?

These are excellent questions, if very hard to quantify. You might want to send your list to Brent for his thoughts, and to see if he would even be interested to find out the answers. I'm not suggesting Brent doesn't care about the site. Not at all. I'm just curious how much of an investment of time and energy he finds reasonable on his end, as a businessman.

It occurs to me that one instrument which might be helpful is a poll or survey of members who have stuck around, to find out why they did, what they like about AC, and what they feel needs improvement. [Just trying to think of how we could use the active members to hypothesise why we don't have more.]

If a survey were in order, there are services like SurveyMonkey that could be linked to a thread here, so members could answer anonymously if they so wished.

I am not a staff member, so I don't think it's my role to launch such an effort [not even a simple poll thread]. I am a scientist, though, so research is always appealing. And I'm a member who cares very much about AC, so I'd like to see it be the best site it can.
 
I feel bad for Adam. I've had a couple times where I've been ganged up on and had my thread shut down because I decided to stand up for myself. I don't like arguments especially since I'm not an Aspie and I was made to feel like I was an intruder in a place where I didn't belong. I stayed because there are other Aspies who stood up for me and I have several Aspies that I enjoy talking to. i wasn't going to have someone bully me into leaving. I wish he would come back again.

Making other NT's stand out could be done with a certain color or the letters "NT" after their name. That could be a possibility. I would actually like to know who is an NT and who is an Aspie.
 
New subforum: Ask an Aspie!
Sticky Thread: FAQ

Or so how it breaks down in my head.

I agree with this suggestion. I have seen a stickied NT-ASD dialogue thread on another ASD forum, where NTs can ask Aspies questions and vice versa. It's a very long thread and it was stickied, so it must have enjoyed some success. NTs could be encouraged to read that thread, or post their enquiry there rather than opening a new thread every time they have a dating question.
 
I feel bad for Adam. I've had a couple times where I've been ganged up on and had my thread shut down because I decided to stand up for myself. I don't like arguments especially since I'm not an Aspie and I was made to feel like I was an intruder in a place where I didn't belong. I stayed because there are other Aspies who stood up for me and I have several Aspies that I enjoy talking to. i wasn't going to have someone bully me into leaving. I wish he would come back again.

Making other NT's stand out could be done with a certain color or the letters "NT" after their name. That could be a possibility. I would actually like to know who is an NT and who is an Aspie.

I personally find it helps me relate to other members if I know a little about them, say gender, age and location.. it makes people a little less faceless in a way, I suppose, so I agree in principal.. But I do agree with what gonz said above, it may be a little tempting for some to use an NT/ND or Official diag/Self diag label or whatever, for target practice, despite most of us being on our best behavior most of the time.. it still doesn't necessarily alleviate hurt feelings after the fact and, like yourself Angie, I'm also sad that Adam's taken a backseat, I really enjoyed his posts.. don't you go disappearing next now ;)
On the other hand, we could just short circuit all that and have ND labels in a nice, restful green and NT labels in red-for-danger :D
 
I feel bad for Adam. I've had a couple times where I've been ganged up on and had my thread shut down because I decided to stand up for myself...(edit)...i wasn't going to have someone bully me into leaving. I wish he would come back again.

Making other NT's stand out could be done with a certain color or the letters "NT" after their name. That could be a possibility. I would actually like to know who is an NT and who is an Aspie.

There's a fine line between standing up for yourself for not wanting to be bullied into leaving, and possibly getting yourself banned for how you go about it. That's a very real dilemma for a NT on this forum: You can't often predict Aspie perception or behaviour if you aren't an Aspie, so you have to be prepared to exercise a tremendous amount of restraint and tact. Rule number one for everyone here should be not to make things personal, or take things personally.

I would like to be able to identify NTs as well, just so I now who I'm dealing with in case a misunderstanding arises. AdamR mentions his status in his tagline, which would perhaps be the best place to do it, entirely voluntarily. How the site might encourage this is an interesting question. I don't know anything about forum software, and I can't recall particulars of the joining process. I'm not sure how the software could translate checking the NT box into some sort of visible identifier on the forums, even if we could all agree it would be a good idea [which I doubt we would, and there are good reasons].


I personally find it helps me relate to other members if I know a little about them, say gender, age and location.. it makes people a little less faceless in a way, I suppose, so I agree in principal.. But I do agree with what gonz said above, it may be a little tempting for some to use an NT/ND or Official diag/Self diag label or whatever, for target practice, despite most of us being on our best behavior most of the time.. it still doesn't necessarily alleviate hurt feelings after the fact and, like yourself Angie, I'm also sad that Adam's taken a backseat, I really enjoyed his posts.. don't you go disappearing next now ;)
On the other hand, we could just short circuit all that and have ND labels in a nice, restful green and NT labels in red-for-danger :D

Some forums make basic demographic data like age/location/gender mandatory, and visible under the avatar. I'm divided on whether this is a good idea on a forum where a person's sense of safety and security might depend on giving away as little information as possible. After all, many Aspies aren't even "out" to family and friends. It's true to say I'm one of those who are have concerns about that sort of thing, myself.

When I am about to post to someone new, I often click their profile to gather information about them, but I'm finding that many people choose not to disclose. Though I like to know a bit about my fellows, here, I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of their preferences.

Divulging gender could be problematic on a forum where many members have complex gender identities. Minorities often don't like to be labelled, and there is so much terminology out there to describe sex and gender variations these days that I daresay we'd have to lump a lot of it under "other", which seems a bit dismissive.

I have to say, it's been fun for me, at times, trying to suss out if certain members are biologically male or female. I love it when I have my eye on someone, and a post is made that answers the question. I've shouted, "A-HA!" aloud more than once when someone has posted something that solves a sex/gender mystery. :p
 

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