Aspergers and Violence?

[alexa roper]

This thread will probably be taken down, but it's worth a try.

By now, most of you have probably heard about the shooting in Isla Vista, California. It's just devestating, but I'm not here to talk about details of what happened. I just know through reading numerous articles (I get really interested, almost obsessed, when these types of things happen) that the shooter, Elliot Rodger, (and that's the only time I'll say his name, because the victims are the ones that deserve to be remembered) had Aspergers.

He had posted numerous videos on Youtube, the content was all pretty much the same, though. Just him, complaining how girls were never attracted to him and he doesn't know why and that he is extremely lonely. The sick and twisted part is, I can't help but empathize with this guy! Only to a certain extent, though. I have watched his videos over and over, just trying to make sense of everything.

He was the son of a Hollywood movie director, so he grew up in a very materialistic and shallow society. He grew up desiring the "popular" people, and didn't understand when they rejected him. Instead of taking a step back and seeing that there is more to life than popularity and pretty girls, he went the opposite route and became obsessed with the fact that girls didn't like him and they only liked ass hole jock types. He did everything that he THOUGHT girls want (ie. having a nice car, wearing nice clothes), instead of trying to figure out why people perceive him the way that they do.

I only empathize with him because I was the same way. Always trying to fit in, always trying to get the popular boys to like me. I mean, I thought I was attractive, so I didn't understand why they didn't like me. I didn't realize at the time that being attractive does not equal fitting in. I am lucky to have broken out of that way of thinking. Sadly, this kid didn't. I also never ever ever had any urge to hurt or seek revenge on innocent people, so I think he had more going on than just Aspergers. Idk though. See? I obsess over these things and I don't know why.

Another chilling detail is that his parents (whom lived in another city, he was away at college) had seen some of his disturbing Youtube videos and asked the police to go check on him. The police concluded that nothing was wrong and he seemed like a nice young man. There goes that Aspie ability to appear normal for a short time. Anyway, it detailed in a manifesto that he left for his parents before his rampage that he was actually extremely nervous when the police arrived at his doorstep. He thought someone had found out his plans and turned him in. He said that if the police had asked to search his room, they would have found all of his weapons and his plans for what he was going to do with them. He would have been arrested and put in a mental institution where he could have gotten help. But sadly, the police turned their backs. I'm not saying that this is anyone else's fault besides the shooter's, but I just feel like this tragedy could have been prevented.

I even feel like if I just had the chance to talk to him, I could have stopped this. There are so many 'what if's' though, and I am aware that I can't dwell on them. But it's hard sometimes. So yeah, I guess the reason that I started this whole thread is, can Aspergers cause such violent tendencies? Or was this just the exception?

 

[King_Oni]

The big question is; was it Asperger's that made him violent?

Looking at the stories on him, he seemed to be delusional and perhaps slightly narcissistic, feeling he was entitled to certain things in life which he didn't get. That's the disappointment that probably made him more prone to being violent.

The Aspie aspect therein might lie in why he kept being disappointed. He might not be social, he might even come across as creepy and that's why he didn't get what he wanted. Adding in that he wanted and expected more out of life than what's realistic and feeling he deserves it.. and being let down because he has high demands, that's what triggered him most likely.

If Asperger's made us violent, this forum should've been way, way more out of control and we as staff should've intervened for every small incident (and that is not the case).

 

[GoofKing]

Yes, people with Asperger's Syndrome can have violent tendencies as I did when I was younger. My issue is that there's so little understanding about Autism is that people just assume that all of us are heartless monsters who would go out and kill people.

I do wonder about the violent or stressful environment that a lot of us grew up in and the lack of help when needed. What would any of you guys do when you feel trapped or hopeless or needing help ? I've felt like this when my step-dad wouldn't back off and leave me alone but instead got into my face all the time

 

[GoofKing]

Sorry that probably sounded stupid ...

 

[King_Oni]

Yes, people with Asperger's Syndrome can have violent tendencies as I did when I was younger. My issue is that there's so little understanding about Autism is that people just assume that all of us are heartless monsters who would go out and kill people.

I do wonder about the violent or stressful environment that a lot of us grew up in and the lack of help when needed. What would any of you guys do when you feel trapped or hopeless or needing help ? I've felt like this when my step-dad wouldn't back off and leave me alone but instead got into my face all the time

Well, if you're with your back against the wall anyone does the weirdest things.. that's not aspie exclusive.

What's important, and perhaps even more when it comes to people on the spectrum; Ask for help, even on a forum like this. I say this because I know there are many on the spectrum out there who probably need more help than they get and just are too socially awkward or shy to ask.

 

[alexa roper]

Looking at the stories on him, he seemed to be delusional and perhaps slightly narcissistic, feeling he was entitled to certain things in life which he didn't get. That's the disappointment that probably made him more prone to being violent.

The Aspie aspect therein might lie in why he kept being disappointed. He might not be social, he might even come across as creepy and that's why he didn't get what he wanted. Adding in that he wanted and expected more out of life than what's realistic and feeling he deserves it.. and being let down because he has high demands, that's what triggered him most likely.
.

I agree that he also seemed narcissistic and a tad delusional. That's why I'm so confused as to why no one committed him to a mental institution. It's a frustrating feeling. I just know so much how this kid felt (the loneliness and confusion). He thought that all girls were the same but that's because he was only looking at the blonde bubbly sorority girls. He said that they never gave him a chance, but did he give any other type of girl, perhaps an unattractive girl, a chance? He was basically living his life looking through a magnifying glass.

 

[King_Oni]

I agree that he also seemed narcissistic and a tad delusional. That's why I'm so confused as to why no one committed him to a mental institution. It's a frustrating feeling. I just know so much how this kid felt (the loneliness and confusion). He thought that all girls were the same but that's because he was only looking at the blonde bubbly sorority girls. He said that they never gave him a chance, but did he give any other type of girl, perhaps an unattractive girl, a chance? He was basically living his life looking through a magnifying glass.

Last I read on this is that his parents warned the authorities and there was plenty of evidence to see he was up to no good. So I guess that's good on behalf of parents, though perhaps the mental healthcare system does fail a bit in this case.

As for him looking at life through a magnifying glass, most likely yes. His inability to put things in perspective and just want something specific just seems bordering obsession as well.

It puzzles me that someone with his eyes set on such girls doesn't understand that even if it were just to get in their pants (so to speak), there's more to that. Being the person he was, I doubt anyway would be interested in hanging out with him on a regular basis, let alone be more intimate.

But that's all I'll add about this person.

This thread is perfectly fine in terms of aspies and violence, but the notion of dragging him specifically in this thread might be better suited in another thread that started on this forum today.

https://www.aspiescentral.com/threa...rs-syndrome-diagnosis.7529/page-2#post-122904

 

[alexa roper]

Yes, people with Asperger's Syndrome can have violent tendencies as I did when I was younger. My issue is that there's so little understanding about Autism is that people just assume that all of us are heartless monsters who would go out and kill people.

I do wonder about the violent or stressful environment that a lot of us grew up in and the lack of help when needed. What would any of you guys do when you feel trapped or hopeless or needing help ? I've felt like this when my step-dad wouldn't back off and leave me alone but instead got into my face all the time

I feel like now that this story has come out, it definitely does nothing good for the autistic community. But hopefully most people would be educated enough to know the difference between autism and someone who is clearly psychotic.

I grew up in a very stressful and lonely environment. By the time I entered high school, I felt like everyone had abandoned me. I had absolutely no one to relate to or look up to. So my life pretty much revolved around not wanting to be alive. It is one of the worst ways to feel and I wouldn't even wish it upon my worst enemy. At that point in my life, I wasn't aware of my Aspergers and I was doing nothing productive. I am doing so much better now, though, but I still struggle with feelings of inferiority. It is definitely important to voice how you feel to someone, because chances are, there is someone else who knows exactly what you're going through. Had I had the ability to tell people how I felt back then, I'm sure things would have been different.

 

[Aspieistj]

I think a life of constant rejection and the inability to understand why you aren't accepted and liked might push certain individuals to violence. My personal reaction has been to avoid people so there won't be any chance for them to decide I am not up to their standards.

 

[Soup]

Hi Alexa. The last time an alleged Aspie went on a rampage, I tried to open a discussion about it too, bu it didn't remain up for very long. That is a shame: if We as a community & a culture refuse to discuss this (& other) difficult yet important issues, the entire discourse gets shaped by people outside of the community who do NOT always understand what Aspies are & who do NOT have our best interests at heart.

So many of us live in utter isolation & some further along on the spectrum are non-verbal to boot. This renders it even more important for us in the community (those of us who can handle it & are open to such discussion) to engage in conversation about this.

We all know that it is the extremely rare case when an Aspie does something like this. To be fair, it is extremely rare when ANYONE from any demographic does something like this.

While this guy may have been an Aspie (I have yet to see a credible confirmation of this) it does not stand to reason that Asperger's caused him to do what he did- or even that it played a role. He had brown hair: several deranged shooters have been brunette. Nobody in his right mind would argue that brown hair causes mass murders or even increases the likelihood of becoming a mass murderer.

Like yourself, I have been following this case with great interest. I think that this young man had, aside from possibly being an Aspie, a Narcissistic personality. He refers to himself as 'the supreme gentleman' (whatever the heck that means!) & gloats, throughout his videos, about how superior he is. If he made it to 22, never having so much as kissed a girl despite his family money, attractive looks & intelligence etc, I wonder what efforts he ever made. Did he ever try to get to know a girl? This site is full of Aspies. Many of us have dated, have had girl/boyfriends or are/have been married.

This guy seems to have a bad case of 'Affluenza'. He is a rich kid who had been materially overindulged. Many rich families go out of their way to NOT do that to their kids & to help them learn important lessons about the value of things. This kid, who did nothing to earn it, was driving an expensive, new luxury car. He believed that just because he was physically attractive, in college & driving a nice car, he was ENTITLED to the attentions (literally sex & love) from a very particular type of young woman. He was obsessed with blonde 'cheer-leader' types. NOT as human beings, but as something to use reinforce his sense of grandeur & to satisfy HIS desires. He never once discusses women as individuals or even as human beings! He is hateful resentful & enraged that, despite having the trappings of attractiveness, living Barbies were not falling at his feet.

This man hated humans & women in particular, He was shallow, entitled, hateful, vengeful & misogynistic. These are NOT traits that anyone, male or female, views as desirable!

Another part of the shattered jug that was this young man, is the impact that the prevalent American cultural myths around manhood & being a gun-freak , had on him. He seems to have believed it to be true that a 'real man' utterly dominates desirable (in this case Barbie) women. He believed that (like in video games & many fairy tales) that getting the beautiful girl is an entitlement & a prize for being 'the handsome prince'. The girl plays a passive role, waiting to be 'won' (like a stuffed animal at a carnival game) or otherwise conquered or rescued. She has no opinion in the matter & is but an aesthetically pleasing tool of male pleasure. In his mind, a woman refusing to fall at his feet is like being rejected by the trophy he believes he deserves for being a 'winner' (Alpha male & all that glorified $#!T).

I'll stop here because this is turning into an essay. Hopefully, others will join in with their 2 cents too.

 

[Ereth]

Considering that very few mentally ill/differently-wired people are violent, my (layperson's) opinion is that Rodger must have had at least one condition comorbid with his ASD---as I stated elsewhere, my money's on narcissistic personality disorder.

In light of its highly case-specific content, perhaps the thread should be merged with the other one posted earlier today.

Last I read on this is that his parents warned the authorities and there was plenty of evidence to see he was up to no good. So I guess that's good on behalf of parents, though perhaps the mental healthcare system does fail a bit in this case.

In his parents' defense, as well as the healthcare system's, Rodger apparently managed to convince everyone that he didn't have a problem beyond maybe being a little introverted. He also took down the YouTube videos in question when his parents alerted the authorities and reposted them a few days later.

It puzzles me that someone with his eyes set on such girls doesn't understand that even if it were just to get in their pants (so to speak), there's more to that.

Based on what I've found from his manifesto, he repeatedly mentions sex and physical affection before love. It seems that for him, sex and love were one and the same, and because he didn't get any sexual attention from women, he felt he was unloved.

But hopefully most people would be educated enough to know the difference between autism and someone who is clearly psychotic.

I'm not too worried. I would say the vast majority of people are aware that autism isn't the cause of such behavior, though it can potentially (and rarely) be comorbid with it.

 

[alexa roper]

We all know that it is the extremely rare case when an Aspie does something like this. To be fair, it is extremely rare when ANYONE from any demographic does something like this.
Like yourself, I have been following this case with great interest. I think that this young man had, aside from possibly being an Aspie, a Narcissistic personality. He refers to himself as 'the supreme gentleman' (whatever the heck that means!) & gloats, throughout his videos, about how superior he is. If he made it to 22, never having so much as kissed a girl despite his family money, attractive looks & intelligence etc, I wonder what efforts he ever made. Did he ever try to get to know a girl? This site is full of Aspies. Many of us have dated, have had girl/boyfriends or are/have been married.

This guy seems to have a bad case of 'Affluenza'. He is a rich kid who had been materially overindulged. Many rich families go out of their way to NOT do that to their kids & to help them learn important lessons about the value of things. This kid, who did nothing to earn it, was driving an expensive, new luxury car. He believed that just because he was physically attractive, in college & driving a nice car, he was ENTITLED to the attentions (literally sex & love) from a very particular type of young woman. He was obsessed with blonde 'cheer-leader' types. NOT as human beings, but as something to use reinforce his sense of grandeur & to satisfy HIS desires. He never once discusses women as individuals or even as human beings! He is hateful resentful & enraged that, despite having the trappings of attractiveness, living Barbies were not falling at his feet.

This man hated humans & women in particular, He was shallow, entitled, hateful, vengeful & misogynistic. These are NOT traits that anyone, male or female, views as desirable!
.

This is like the most brilliant thing that I have read about this. He mentions in a video that he would get rejected if he ever tried to make a "sexual advance" at a girl. I shudder to think what that exchange must have been like. He was just so off in his own world and now I'm starting to think that there is not much that could have been done to change his mind.

 

[alexa roper]

And as an outsider looking in, it would appear that the good looking guys with nice cars DO get the girls. He was just out of touch with reality and I'm glad that most of us can agree that there was more going on there than just ASD.

 

[Ereth]

While this guy may have been an Aspie (I have yet to see a credible confirmation of this)

I don't know what the paper's source is, but in the article Tarragon referenced in his thread, it was stated that Rodger was diagnosed with ASD as a child. I don't know if this is true, since I've seen absolutely no mention of ASD in any article I've read on this subject before or since, but I assume his family can confirm or deny it.

I wonder what efforts he ever made. Did he ever try to get to know a girl? This site is full of Aspies. Many of us have dated, have had girl/boyfriends or are/have been married.

His manifesto mentions a few attempts at getting to know girls. One try was in the fourth grade. He didn't take rejection well back then, either. I don't know how or when his obsession with girls began, since I have neither found nor read the full 104-page document, but it apparently persisted throughout his life.

I understand his loneliness and his perceived rejection by the opposite sex, because that was part of my life for a long time, but that's as far as it goes.

 

[alexa roper]

Every article that I have read has had some sort of mention of Aspergers or ASD, but it wasn't the main focus of the article. The most that I can gather is that he was diagnosed a little bit later in life.

 

[Peter A.]

This thread will probably be taken down, but it's worth a try.

No, it should not be. A refusal to face sensitive issues like this will, in the long run, just end up making things worse. It should not be taken down.

On a side note, I just (about 5 minutes ago) started a thread about this very same issue (the massacre) - and THEN I saw that someone has here already raised the very same issue(s). I can really be clueless sometimes

 

[alexa roper]

No, it should not be. A refusal to face sensitive issues like this will, in the long run, just end up making things worse. It should not be taken down.

On a side note, I just (about 5 minutes ago) started a thread about this very same issue (the massacre) - and THEN I saw that someone has here already raised the very same issue(s). I can really be clueless sometimes

It's okay! I did the same thing! We all have different opinions And sometimes it's better to have multiple threads so that you don't have to comb through 15 different pages of just one. ya feel?

 

[Sander]

I have to admit and confirm that Aspergers can lead to violence, as we aspies (at least some of us) really have the urge to take revenge, sometimes in every way possible. I didn't do that, but what I can say is that when I was little, about 7 years ago some little asshole kids were bullying me in the holidays. I was so sick and angry of it, I couldn't keep myself in control and almost strangled one of those little guys
Luckily the others saved him by pulling me away from him, otherwise he would have been dead :'(

And the worst thing is that I didn't even regret my outburst, as it stopped the bullying.
But as of that time I'm very careful because I don't have myself under control when I'm that angry.

 

[GoofKing]

I have to admit and confirm that Aspergers can lead to violence, as we aspies (at least some of us) really have the urge to take revenge, sometimes in every way possible. I didn't do that, but what I can say is that when I was little, about 7 years ago some little asshole kids were bullying me in the holidays. I was so sick and angry of it, I couldn't keep myself in control and almost strangled one of those little guys
Luckily the others saved him by pulling me away from him, otherwise he would have been dead :'(

And the worst thing is that I didn't even regret my outburst, as it stopped the bullying.
But as of that time I'm very careful because I don't have myself under control when I'm that angry.

The media has a talent of putting their own twist to any story They don't give a damn about the truth but what would sell the most to the general public.

For example, the incident you had when you were seven could easily be twisted by the media to make you look like an inhumane monster because they leave out certain facts and statements. This is why the media is nothing but pestilent little ****-eating flies to me. If I was convicted and sent to juvenile detention for assaulting my mall cop step-dad for constantly being in my face when I was fifteen, you can bet the media could careless about my side of the story and make me out as some mentally unstable monster ...

 

[Soup]

@ Sander: The type of revenge you describe has little to do with being an Aspie & everything to do with being a human. You lashed out at the specific person who had directly & intentionally harmed you. Such a reaction is rational. One may overreact or become obsessed with revenge, but the target person DID directly harm you.

This guy sought revenge on people whose harm to him existed only in his own mind. He wanted 'love & sex' from blonde co-eds. He even specifies some 'hot' sorority he intended to go into & kill every blonde (spoiled & stuck-up) girl he saw. Did those girls even know this guy? Had every one of them 'rejected' him? Odds are, he never even had approached any of them. Plus, you cannot just walk up to a strange woman & make some sexual advance & expect a positive response unless that woman is a hooker!

He seemed to believe that this specific type of girl was an entitlement for 'winners' like himself. He even expressed hatred towards some strange couple he saw kissing at the beach! Wanting revenge against some specific person who harmed you is rational (not nice, maybe...but rational). Wanting revenge against any person who has the same haircut as someone who harmed you is just plain nuts.