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Aspergers and Violence?

This guy sought revenge on people whose harm to him existed only in his own mind. He wanted 'love & sex' from blonde co-eds. He even specifies some 'hot' sorority he intended to go into & kill every blonde (spoiled & stuck-up) girl he saw. Did those girls even know this guy? Had every one of them 'rejected' him? Odds are, he never even had approached any of them. Plus, you cannot just walk up to a strange woman & make some sexual advance & expect a positive response unless that woman is a hooker!

He seemed to believe that this specific type of girl was an entitlement for 'winners' like himself. He even expressed hatred towards some strange couple he saw kissing at the beach! Wanting revenge against some specific person who harmed you is rational (not nice, maybe...but rational). Wanting revenge against any person who has the same haircut as someone who harmed you is just plain nuts.

Yes--this guy had a serious narcissistic disorder that went way beyond simple revenge. He even hated other guys who played video games and had no social lives because he thought they were losers, while hating people who got to experience sex and romance because they were winners.

It looks like the media is playing up the misogynist angle more than the Aspie angle. I wouldn't really lump this guy in with anyone other than other violent misogynists like George Sodini or Marc Lépine.
 
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Yes--this guy had a serious narcissistic disorder that went way beyond simple revenge. He even hated other guys who played video games and had no social lives because he thought they were losers, while hating people who got to experience sex and romance because they were winners.

It looks like the media is playing up the misogynist angle more than the Aspie angle. You really can't lump this guy in with anyone other than other violent misogynists like George Sodini or Marc Lépine.

I'm still worried that he might inspire other sexist misogynists to become violent :(
 
I'm still worried that he might inspire other sexist misogynists to become violent :(

Yes, it's troubling to think how many misogynists are out there seething, blaming others for their own misery.

Even stuff like this--the girl kicked out of her prom because chaperones claimed she was causing "unpure thoughts".

Maybe you kick out the chaperones who are leering at this girl!
 
Yes, it's troubling to think how many misogynists are out there seething, blaming others for their own misery.

Ugh, these guys are in the same scum levels as those who abuse women just because their psychically weaker or emotionally attached to them :| They need a good ole strong kick to their balls by them is what they need :(


Even stuff like this--the girl kicked out of her prom because chaperones claimed she was causing "unpure thoughts".

Maybe you kick out the chaperones who are leering at this girl!

Chaperones as in adults at a school prom ? Maybe they should lock up the perverted adults for being a child endanger-er :/ That's still pretty ****** though, I hope she fights this injustice ...:(
 
Did anyone hear about the story last month about a teenage boy stabbing a girl to death at his school because she turned down his prom invitation? So this is now TWO acts of unjustifiable violence in a month. Mentally unstable kids are just going to think that they can do what these kids did, because they feel like they have nothing to live for. Something needs to change.
 
Did anyone hear about the story last month about a teenage boy stabbing a girl to death at his school because she turned down his prom invitation? So this is now TWO acts of unjustifiable violence in a month. Mentally unstable kids are just going to think that they can do what these kids did, because they feel like they have nothing to live for. Something needs to change.

Pretty hard to avoid such stories. We had one right here last October. Unknown if the boy was autistic but it seems to have leaned that way. His mother was researching the possibility. Very tragic. What does it take for those in the tightest of orbits to see their loved ones needing so much help?

Police: Sparks Middle School shooter said he was teased
 
Yes--this guy had a serious narcissistic disorder[...]

Indeed. I am not an expert, but the following citation from the manifesto says it all:
“I am Elliot Rodger . . . Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent . . . Divine! I am the closest thing there is to a living god,’’

Can we at all put the violence of an autistic meltdown or the anger on bullies on the same shelf with narcissistic violence? At least I have never heard of ASD people writing a manifesto before doing anything violent.
 
Indeed. I am not an expert, but the following citation from the manifesto says it all:
“I am Elliot Rodger . . . Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent . . . Divine! I am the closest thing there is to a living god,’’

Can we at all put the violence of an autistic meltdown or the anger on bullies on the same shelf with narcissistic violence? At least I have never heard of ASD people writing a manifesto before doing anything violent.

I agree--the frustration of a meltdown or anger towards bullies is nothing like that.

I haven't seen a single utterance on this site that suggests any of us feel we are "supreme" or a "living god" or any of that nonsense!
 
After the little bit I've read of this young man's anger and bitterness, the concern about my own 25-year-old son has been renewed. He hasn't received an official diagnosis of ASD, but there is little doubt in my mind he is on the spectrum. It takes one to know one, as the saying goes. Like Rodgers, my son is very difficult to be around for long periods of time because he lashes out at everyone and everything--and in the most violent terms. (e.g., "I'd love to take that guy's iPod cord and strangle him with it.") He constantly complains about people giving him dirty looks and has a very bitter attitude toward women in general. I have urged him to seek help for his mental condition, but I think he resists because, of course, nothing is his fault--it's the fault of the crummy world in which he lives.

What else is a parent supposed to do so that another senseless tragedy like this one doesn't happen?
 
After the little bit I've read of this young man's anger and bitterness, the concern about my own 25-year-old son has been renewed. He hasn't received an official diagnosis of ASD, but there is little doubt in my mind he is on the spectrum. It takes one to know one, as the saying goes. Like Rodgers, my son is very difficult to be around for long periods of time because he lashes out at everyone and everything--and in the most violent terms. (e.g., "I'd love to take that guy's iPod cord and strangle him with it.") He constantly complains about people giving him dirty looks and has a very bitter attitude toward women in general. I have urged him to seek help for his mental condition, but I think he resists because, of course, nothing is his fault--it's the fault of the crummy world in which he lives.

What else is a parent supposed to do so that another senseless tragedy like this one doesn't happen?

I ought to mention, too, that anytime I have voiced my concern about my son's descriptions of violent acts, he assures me he knows the difference between violent talk and the actual committing of violence. I'm not convinced this is a distinction that really matters.
 
After the little bit I've read of this young man's anger and bitterness, the concern about my own 25-year-old son has been renewed. He hasn't received an official diagnosis of ASD, but there is little doubt in my mind he is on the spectrum. It takes one to know one, as the saying goes. Like Rodgers, my son is very difficult to be around for long periods of time because he lashes out at everyone and everything--and in the most violent terms. (e.g., "I'd love to take that guy's iPod cord and strangle him with it.") He constantly complains about people giving him dirty looks and has a very bitter attitude toward women in general. I have urged him to seek help for his mental condition, but I think he resists because, of course, nothing is his fault--it's the fault of the crummy world in which he lives.

What else is a parent supposed to do so that another senseless tragedy like this one doesn't happen?

I am not a doctor, nor am I a parent, hell, I'm only 21 years old, but ill give it a shot. I understand how frustrating it is to try and get someone to go to therapy. I resisted for many years even though my parents made me go. I was very manipulative, so I had convinced all my therapists that I was fine. It wasn't until I guess I had a series of revelations about myself that I decided to seek answers and help. Therapy truly does not work if the patient is not willing. Perhaps you could talk to some therapists about your son's condition and they can probably give you some good advice about how to handle things. Unless you've already tried that. It seems like this problem has been going on for a while :( Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
Something that I remembered about myself as I drove into work this morning.....

I get extremely infuriated when I see someone who is intentionally double parked. Or even worse, triple parked. Or even worse, quadruple parked!!! The feeling that I get is probably the closest thing to what the Isla Vista shooter felt whenever he witnessed things that he thought were unfair. I don't turn violent, though, and I would never destroy or damage someone else's property, I'd feel way too guilty. I do, however, like to get a little revenge.

I can tell the difference between when someone intends to park like an ass hole because they think that they are better than everyone, and someone who just sucks at parking. I tend to leave the people who suck at parking alone, they are just ignorant. My target is the ones who think that for some reason because they paid more money for their car, they can park wherever they want. I always always ALWAYS try to promote being different and unique and not like everyone else, but there is one place that we are ALL the same, and that is the road. I don't care if you drive a Ford Taurus or a Corvette, you have to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else. It's just common courtesy.

So basically most of the time that I see someone double parked, I will write a little note (I keep paper and markers in my car, obviously) and stick it on their windshield, usually along the lines of: "Sorry I hit your car, shouldn't have parked like an asshole." I also switch my handwriting around, just for good measure.

It's short, sweet, and to the point. If I have enough time, I will stick around to admire my handy work. I get such gratification watching pretentious people frantically searching for a non-existent dent. I just feel like it's my job to let these ass holes know that they are not better than anyone else. I truly hope that my notes have dissuaded them from parking like that in the future. But who knows. It's just amusing, and I'm not hurting anyone.
 
I am not a doctor, nor am I a parent, hell, I'm only 21 years old, but ill give it a shot. I understand how frustrating it is to try and get someone to go to therapy. I resisted for many years even though my parents made me go. I was very manipulative, so I had convinced all my therapists that I was fine. It wasn't until I guess I had a series of revelations about myself that I decided to seek answers and help. Therapy truly does not work if the patient is not willing. Perhaps you could talk to some therapists about your son's condition and they can probably give you some good advice about how to handle things. Unless you've already tried that. It seems like this problem has been going on for a while :( Sorry I can't be of more help.
I appreciate your input Alexa. I agree, it would be futile to coerce him into therapy. Talking to my own therapist about it would be a good first step, though.
 
Something that I remembered about myself as I drove into work this morning.....

I get extremely infuriated when I see someone who is intentionally double parked. Or even worse, triple parked. Or even worse, quadruple parked!!! The feeling that I get is probably the closest thing to what the Isla Vista shooter felt whenever he witnessed things that he thought were unfair. I don't turn violent, though, and I would never destroy or damage someone else's property, I'd feel way too guilty. I do, however, like to get a little revenge.

I can tell the difference between when someone intends to park like an ass hole because they think that they are better than everyone, and someone who just sucks at parking. I tend to leave the people who suck at parking alone, they are just ignorant. My target is the ones who think that for some reason because they paid more money for their car, they can park wherever they want. I always always ALWAYS try to promote being different and unique and not like everyone else, but there is one place that we are ALL the same, and that is the road. I don't care if you drive a Ford Taurus or a Corvette, you have to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else. It's just common courtesy.

So basically most of the time that I see someone double parked, I will write a little note (I keep paper and markers in my car, obviously) and stick it on their windshield, usually along the lines of: "Sorry I hit your car, shouldn't have parked like an asshole." I also switch my handwriting around, just for good measure.

It's short, sweet, and to the point. If I have enough time, I will stick around to admire my handy work. I get such gratification watching pretentious people frantically searching for a non-existent dent. I just feel like it's my job to let these ass holes know that they are not better than anyone else. I truly hope that my notes have dissuaded them from parking like that in the future. But who knows. It's just amusing, and I'm not hurting anyone.
Probably a more effective way of dealing with your anger and frustration than by actually vandalizing the car. Reminds me of how angry I got one evening when I was riding my bike home from work and had my bike lane suddenly blocked by a couple of women just sitting and talking in an SUV. After passing them, I gestured to the driver that she was obstructing the bike lane, and she responded by mockingly waving at me. I wanted so much to make another pass at them and key her gas-guzzling SUV--but I still had enough clarity of mind to know it would have had more negative consequences for me. Still, I totally understand how incensed you get when people act like they are entitled to more of the road (or parking space) just because of the kind of car they drive.
 
I haven't read all the comments so I apologize if I repeat anything, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment and just want to contribute what I can.

I think it would be a mistake to say that Asperger's is the cause of violent tendencies; anyone has the potential for violence, some more so than others, and that's consistent whether you consider an Asperger's population or a neurotypical one. However, I think Asperger's can heighten the likelihood of situations that could trigger violence if the tendency is there. By that I mean, people often turn to violence as a result of feeling alone, alienated, neglected, misunderstood... and unless you find the right group of friends, people with Asperger's often don't fit in, are frequently misunderstood, and may be left out due to their inability to catch on when they're being invited in or otherwise are pushed away for their differences. One article I read said that classmates described the culprit would often ignore them when they tried to include him, staring straight ahead as they spoke, turning, and walking away, perhaps meaning he didn't recognize that he was being accepted and included.

Overall, perhaps having Asperger's resulted in situations that played a role in motivating his actions, but that doesn't mean Asperger's was the root of the problem; it simply provided a trigger, if anything. Of course I can't be certain, but that's my personal take on it.
 
Probably a more effective way of dealing with your anger and frustration than by actually vandalizing the car. Reminds me of how angry I got one evening when I was riding my bike home from work and had my bike lane suddenly blocked by a couple of women just sitting and talking in an SUV. After passing them, I gestured to the driver that she was obstructing the bike lane, and she responded by mockingly waving at me. I wanted so much to make another pass at them and key her gas-guzzling SUV--but I still had enough clarity of mind to know it would have had more negative consequences for me. Still, I totally understand how incensed you get when people act like they are entitled to more of the road (or parking space) just because of the kind of car they drive.

Aah, the joys of traffic. :) I just try to remind myself that it's just people and people make mistakes. There could always be some reason why they are parked that way. "There are more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than can be thought of in your philosophy." A guy speeding? Maybe he just received news his father, who he hasn't seen in 20 years, is about to die. Someone forgetting to turn on their blinker? Maybe they've just fallen in love and their mind got distracted for a moment. I'm not a cop, I can make up whatever reason for their behaviour, and I'm not paid to be a judge either, so why waste my time on making judgements. Just work with the situation and move on. We can't all be hyper alert, anticipating the moves of all those around us all the time. It would be hell. We're not robots. I find it saves a lot of time and anger, even though I do get absolutely pissed every now and then. But let go. Think of it as silly humans, because we are, and I am too.

And that's something your son has to understand too. It's such a delicate subject, and I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist/trained professional either... Reminds me a lot of my upstairs neighbor from some time ago. It's partially being confronted with his hatred that really put me of of that kind of thinking (self-pity me against the world type I'm trying so hard and all the rest just **** it up kind of thinking, not the misogyny. Not that I'm misogynist. I never was. Goddamn, so easy to be misunderstood these days. Just to be clear, it's besides the discussion, but still, I'd like to point out that, as a man, with a strong female side, I admit, I believe women are absolutely wonderful beings who keep the world turning whilst being undervalued for it. Keep it up ladies, because we'd be lost without you. And bosses, make your mother proud and do something about that equal pay ****.)
Anyway, apologies for that short interlude. Maybe if you'd mimic his behavior, it might shock him out of his closed mindedness. Sometimes all it takes is being confronted with someone acting exactly the same way as you are, to see the error of one's ways. People giving him dirty looks? Ask at why he's giving you a dirty look, maybe he'll start to think about it for a moment, instead of drawing conclusions too quickly, that lead to nowhere. That's a thing too, this thinking leads to nowhere. It's ok to feel a little disgruntled at times, we all do and we all find reasons to, but it doesn't change a thing. He's probably missing something, try to find out what and counsel/motivate him into at least trying to achieve some goal, to have some purpose in life, to have a sense of self achievement, and to have something of his own to focus on. Something that's not pain and anger. Something that's not defined by other people. Other people don't matter. Let them be. They live their lives, you live yours. Maybe some changes. Just something so can step back from the little world of thoughts he seems to be getting stuck in.
 
I definitely agree that misogyny played a significant role here, but it cannot be ignored that several of his victims were male. He also hated guys who were more successful, who had better luck with girls AND, as was mentioned, who were lone gamers! That is a lot of hate. The 2 room-mates he killed did not look like the kinds of guys that the girls would flock to, they were not stellar successes but students like himself, nor were they loners.

Someone also mentioned the media & referred to them in less that flattering terms. The media is a business, eager to promote whatever will earn them the most viewers. Another important point about them is that they have become a fast-track vehicle to instant fame for many people. You do not have to be talented, smart or good-looking. Many people are famous for being famous! This guy spent his life in Hollywood where he had contact with many famous people. This might've made him feel even more resentful, since many of these celebs are not so great off-screen & perhaps, in Rodger's esteem, unworthy of the attention they get. The female celebs would have seen him as nothing more than the weird son of a famous director. Elliot thought of himself in extreme grandiose terms BUT only he saw himself in that way. The lure, for such a confused frustrated Narcissist, to commit an extreme act to gain both revenge & fame in one go, must be very tempting!
 
While I haven't been following this story very closely, there was a discussion of it tonight on Dr. Drew On Call. While I personally think Dr. Drew is a jackass, the discussion with the other members of the group, one of who has a daughter on the spectrum, tended to agree that the shooter did NOT have an ASD, but was instead, a spoiled rich brat, who felt everybody had to kowtow to him.


Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.
 
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I think a life of constant rejection and the inability to understand why you aren't accepted and liked might push certain individuals to violence. My personal reaction has been to avoid people so there won't be any chance for them to decide I am not up to their standards.
I lived the same way in high school. I wanted to fit in, but it just wasn't in the cards. I was in the gifted track, but wasn't accepted by them, and being in that track guaranteed my rejection by the general track, the biz ed track, and the vo-techies. I played in the wind ensemble and the jazz ensemble, but apart from my utility as an instrumentalist I wasn't really accepted by them until midway through junior year. Many of the girls in the music program used me as a tutor and a confidante, but go on a date? A blue nosed baboon would have had a better chance! And I had no idea why this was. (Asperger's didn't become mainstream even in the medical community for decades after I was out of school.)

I even was picked on by a couple of the teachers. One, teaching Socio-Psychology, asked us to list five things that were important to us one time. Most of the class listed things like cars, their girlfriend/boyfriend, a job, getting good grades - typical high school values. I put down things like duty, honor, service, and loyalty - abstract virtues. Teacher collected the papers and read some of them to the class, asking us if we could tell who wrote them, then questioned the person who had and allowed them to explain their choices. He read mine, and everyone in the class pointed to me. He congratulated them on their perception, and for the next ten minutes ripped into me for my choices without giving me a chance to respond. I stood up, picked up my books, and walked to the door.

"What's the matter? Can't you take a little criticism?" the teacher sneered.

"That wasn't criticsm. That was verbal abuse," I shot back. "I do not have to take that from you, and I will not. I will not return to this class until I receive a public apology from you. After class, I suggest you report to the principal's office. He will be looking for you."

I walked out, went to the principal's office, and had a little discussion with him about that teacher. I found out later from the principal's secretary that the principal had indeed had words with him and had, with great verbal artistry, ripped him up one side and down the other. He also required him to publicly apologize to me for his being a jackass, and TOLD him my grade for that course would be an A, even if I failed every exam and never attended class again. (His little tapdance on the Aspergian had far reaching consequences for him. It cost that teacher two promotions, because the principal had a long memory. One of the few times I've seen karmic justice in action.)

My point to all this is that had I possessed the powers of a Samantha Stevens or Jeannie the Genie in high school, it would have been a very different place. Some of the long-haired hippie-type pinko teachers would have found themselves at Parris Island with their heads shaved learning the Rifleman's Catechism; a number of the jocks would have been reduced to piles of ash; and quite a number of the girls would have been turned out as hookers, to receive the sort of treatment from men I thought they deserved based on their behavior. But while I enjoyed the fantasies of turning the more obnoxious teachers over to the tender mercies of Marine D.I.s, and incinerating bullies with heat vision, and having the more obnoxious teen bitches get hit with the Clue X Four, I certainly didn't act on them by shooting them, stabbing them, or running them down with a car! I simply kept telling myself this would not last forever, and sooner or later (much later, as things turned out), I would have some girl who cared about me and wanted to be with me. For at bottom, that was all I really wanted.

I'm in complete agreement with the posters who believe the Santa Barbara killer's actions have a lot more to do with affluenza, an entitlement mentality, and the shallow values the kid was raised with, all of which heterodyned with his delusions to send him spinning off the rails, than does his suffering from Asperger's Syndrome. Anyone care to bet that the parents spent little time with their son, teaching him values and virtues. He strikes me as a classic "poor little rich kid," who never learned money is the least thing; that there are many things more important than money and appearance. The reason the parents are trying to put the blame on his guns, conveniently ignoring the fact he killed and injured more people with his car and a knife, is that they don't want to confront the fact that it is their failure as parents that led to this incident. They don't want to admit their child was mentally ill in ways that have nothing to do with his Asperger's. And they don't want to admit their guilt in not checking the kid into a private fool farm to get his mental illness treated has a LOT to do with their baby boy turning into a mass murderer.

Asperger's may have robbed this kid of his social graces, but it did not give him Narcisstic Personality Disorder or set him on a path to murder. I feel the parents have to answer for that. Not that the lamestream media or the courts will require them to do so.
 
So basically most of the time that I see someone double parked, I will write a little note (I keep paper and markers in my car, obviously) and stick it on their windshield, usually along the lines of: "Sorry I hit your car, shouldn't have parked like an asshole." I also switch my handwriting around, just for good measure.

It's short, sweet, and to the point. If I have enough time, I will stick around to admire my handy work. I get such gratification watching pretentious people frantically searching for a non-existent dent. I just feel like it's my job to let these ass holes know that they are not better than anyone else.

Alexa, you are a stainless steel rat in the wainscoting of society. Bravo!

I think you'll appreciate this story.

I'm a gun collector and target shooter, and have a pistol permit. (Not the easiest thing in the world to get in the Peoples Democratic Republic of New York.) I was at the local gun shop a year or so ago, just browsing. This particular gun shop is a cross between a regular gun shop with pistol cases and racked longarms, a warehouse, a surplus store, and a museum. (I've had the privilege of handling a 3 digit serial number M1911 pistol from Colt's first production run for the Army, Civil War Spencer carbines and Sharps rifles, and a Brown Bess musket from the Revolution, for instance.) Lots of police officers, collectors, hunters and target shooters frequent the place, and the owner is the official supplier to a number of local police departments and the State Police. Everyone is cordial because we're all shooters and understand each other.

Well, while I was browsing a businessman barged in. You've probably seen the type, a Legend In His Own Mind who sees himself as a member of the ruling class, with everyone else beneath him. He pushed his way to the counter, jumping the line of people waiting to buy things, and announced to the owner, "I want to buy a pistol," in a voice that said he would NOT be denied. The owner didn't bat an eye.

"Fine. Let me see your pistol permit."

"I don't need a permit!" blustered the businessman. "Do you know who I am?"

"No, I don't, and I couldn't care less. Let's see your pistol permit."

"But you're letting them look at the pistols," he argued, waving an hand toward a group including me, with the tone of voice that implied we were peasants smelling of cow dung and dirt from the fields, and that a noble like him deserved preferential treatment.

"That's because they all have pistol permits. The rule in New York State is that if you don't have a pistol permit, you can look but not touch. Now, for the third time, if you want to handle them let's see your pistol permit."

"I don't have a pistol permit," admitted the businessman.

"Until you do, you can lookee but no touchee. If you want to get a pistol permit, just go to the county office building during regular business hours, go to the County Clerk's Office, and ask for a pistol permit application. They'll give you the packet that will start you through the process. Once you see the judge and he authorizes your permit, come back and we'll talk about your buying a pistol. Have a nice day."

The Legend In His Own Mind retreated in disarray, grumbling about how unfair it was, that we could buy pistols but he couldn't. I hope he was listening outside when the door closed and the 12 or 15 of us in the gun shop exploded into raucous, hysterical laughter!
 

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