Anyone with Asperger + ADHD from Berlin?

[Jernau Morat Gurgeh]

Hi, dear community.

I hope you enjoy a nice Easter vacation and celebration.

I found out about my ADHD when I was 36 and about Asperger's at 39.

I'm now 46, half Greek and Austrian, and live in Berlin.

Just researched and calculated that this combination is very rare and only occurs in apx. 0,1% of adults.

Since I never knew anyone "like me" – I'm posting this to see if any Berliner with my "brain configuration" is in this forum?

Let me know, if you have questions or want to chat via video or phone beforehand.

This is me: EliasKouloures.com

(Ignore my bossy image. It's AI-generated and aims to appeal to the corporate overlords.)


All the best,
E.

 

[Tom]

That's a pretty limiting set of criteria. If in a given year we have 100 semi-regular - regular members and people rotate in and out, then I calulate it may take up to ten years to find that configuration again.

What we do have is people of all ages and from quite a few different parts of the world. Isn't that more interesting then someone just like you?

 

[Hypnalis]

Do you mean ADHD + Asperger's occurs in only 0.1% ?

I have both ("inattentive" ADHD though, not the "hyper" version of ADHD ). I think there are others here with both.
0.1% seems low, but I've never checked. I thought that that given ASD, ADHD is fairly common (i.e. the combination would be more frequent than multiplying Asperger's frequency by ADHD frequency).

I find the ADHD harder to adjust for than ASD (Asperger's).

 

[Jernau Morat Gurgeh]

That's a pretty limiting set of criteria. If in a given year we have 100 semi-regular - regular members and people rotate in and out, then I calulate it may take up to ten years to find that configuration again.

What we do have is people of all ages and from quite a few different parts of the world. Isn't that more interesting then someone just like you?

I'm happy to chat with anyone here and also meetup with fellow Aspis in Berlin.

I was just asked to write an article on how it's living and working on AI with ADHD and Asperger's.

That got me thinking about my condition specifically and interested in chatting with someone like me to determine how much if my personality derives from my brain configuration and what are just my ****** quirks...?!

 

[Jernau Morat Gurgeh]

Do you mean ADHD + Asperger's occurs in only 0.1% ?

I have both ("inattentive" ADHD though, not the "hyper" version of ADHD ). I think there are others here with both.
0.1% seems low, but I've never checked. I thought that that given ASD, ADHD is fairly common (i.e. the combination would be more frequent than multiplying Asperger's frequency by ADHD frequency).

I find the ADHD harder to adjust for than ASD (Asperger's).

I feel like having both makes it harder to detect any of those 2 because we're too hyper for most to acknowledge us as having Asperger's. I have the feeling that people got my ADHD due to my high energy level but always thought I was an asshole because I "think and act like a bot" (quote from a friend).

I'm basically Sheldon Cooper if he did Crystal Meth...

You live in Berlin?

 

[VictorR]

In Canada, 2022 data from the Public Health Agency of Canada provided the following occurrence rates:

ASD in general population: 2.0%
Co-occuring ADHD for those with ASD: 36.5%

Source:

https://aidecanada.ca/resources/learn/asd-id-core-knowledge/considering-the-co-occurrence-of-autism-and-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder

And so that would yield an overall occurance rate of ASD+ADHD ("AuDHD") of 0.73%.

I should note that Canada is a relatively vast country and so there are parts of the country where access to services thus formal diagnosis may be more limited, and British Columbia, a province where about 90% of school-aged youth with a diagnosis of ASD received it by age 12, has a prevalence rate of just over 2.5%, and so that figure is likely more representative. If we use that instead, then 2.5% * .365 yields 0.9125%

 

[Jernau Morat Gurgeh]

In Canada, 2022 data from the Public Health Agency of Canada provided the following occurrence rates:

ASD in general population: 2.0%
Co-occuring ADHD for those with ASD: 36.5%

Source:

https://aidecanada.ca/resources/learn/asd-id-core-knowledge/considering-the-co-occurrence-of-autism-and-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder

And so that would yield an overall occurance rate of ASD+ADHD ("AuDHD") of 0.73%.

I should note that Canada is a relatively vast country and so there are parts of the country where access to services thus formal diagnosis may be more limited, and British Columbia, a province where about 90% of school-aged youth with a diagnosis of ASD received it by age 12, has a prevalence rate of just over 2.5%, and so that figure is likely more representative. If we use that instead, then 2.5% * .365 yields 0.9125%

Thanks for the stats but it's not really important if there are 0.0284748% or 0.655438% like me.

People like this are rare and I'd like to meet one.

I actually had 1 incident where someone approached me at a party while I was dancing and shouted "You dance like my brain!". I asked her: "Tell me more about your brain..." She had ADHD + Aspergers. We clicked instantly and exchanged contacts but I sadly lost hers and she never contacted me. Still to this day trying via friends to get hers back.

Anyhow. I would simply find it crazy interesting to meet a like-minded person and exchange life stories.

 

[VictorR]

Thanks for the stats but it's not really important if there are 0.0284748% or 0.655438% like me.

People like this are rare and I'd like to meet one.

I actually had 1 incident where someone approached me at a party while I was dancing and shouted "You dance like my brain!". I asked her: "Tell me more about your brain..." She had ADHD + Aspergers. We clicked instantly and exchanged contacts but I sadly lost hers and she never contacted me. Still to this day trying via friends to get hers back.

Anyhow. I would simply find it crazy interesting to meet a like-minded person and exchange life stories.

I think you missed my point.

What I was trying to illustrate is that the combination of ASD+ADHD is actually relatively common, and makes up a significant portion of the autistic population and not quite the 1/1000 unicorn that you make it out to be.

Keep in mind that due to challenges with diagnoses, that some may have a diagnosis for only one of the two conditions without knowing they have both. It's not unusual, for example, for AuDHD women to only have an ADHD diagnosis because the doctor did not recognize ASD due to masking and different presentation.

I also want to note in general that intersectionalities means that there's a lot of variation, and I've found lots of shared experiences when talking to other neurodiverse people.

Berlin is a large city with a vibrant tech scene, which tend to attracts autistic persons, and so I'm sure if you connect with local groups and communities, you will organically find others to connect with, and would have much more success with that than going out to specifically seek out specific persons, especially since many may not be comfortable in talking about or identifying with their conditions openly.

 

[Jernau Morat Gurgeh]

I think you missed my point.

What I was trying to illustrate is that the combination of ASD+ADHD is actually relatively common, and makes up a significant portion of the autistic population and not quite the 1/1000 unicorn that you make it out to be.

Keep in mind that due to challenges with diagnoses, that some may have a diagnosis for only one of the two conditions without knowing they have both. It's not unusual, for example, for AuDHD women to only have an ADHD diagnosis because the doctor did not recognize ASD due to masking and different presentation.

I also want to note in general that intersectionalities means that there's a lot of variation, and I've found lots of shared experiences when talking to other neurodiverse people.

Berlin is a large city with a vibrant tech scene, which tend to attracts autistic persons, and so I'm sure if you connect with local groups and communities, you will organically find others to connect with, and would have much more success with that than going out to specifically seek out specific persons, especially since many may not be comfortable in talking about or identifying with their conditions openly.

I know about the ASD stat you posted but was specifically looking for Asperger's, which is a smaller subset of it.

The best estimate I found was 0,13% here:

www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1071181/full

If you take the 28-70% comorbidity within the 0,13%, you reach around 0,0364 to 0,091%.

I rounded up to keep it simple.

Good point about your tech industry remark.

I'm also trying to switch back to tech after 2 decades of suffering in the advertising industry with its abundance of huge inflated egos.

 

[VictorR]

I know about the ASD stat you posted but was specifically looking for Asperger's, which is a smaller subset of it.

The best estimate I found was 0,13% here:

www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1071181/full

If you take the 28-70% comorbidity within the 0,13%, you reach around 0,0364 to 0,091%.

That paper is based on a survey of papers from 2000-2020 and for purposes of our discussion here is not particularly useful because:

1. Diagnosis rates are significantly higher now than even a decade ago, with increased awareness and access to services being major contributing factors.

2. The diagnosis of Asperger's is outmoded, and in some places hasn't been used for over a decade. Even when it was in use, someone who met the criteria for Asperger's or autism would be given one or the other, and not both. As such, prevalence rate data for Asperger's has never been reliable. I would argue that more than half the people who have a recent or relatively recent diagnosis of ASD could have been diagnosed with Asperger's.

 

[Jernau Morat Gurgeh]

That paper is based on a survey of papers from 2000-2020 and for purposes of our discussion here is not particularly useful because:

1. Diagnosis rates are significantly higher now than even a decade ago, with increased awareness and access to services being major contributing factors.

2. The diagnosis of Asperger's is outmoded, and in some places hasn't been used for over a decade. Even when it was in use, someone who met the criteria for Asperger's or autism would be given one or the other, and not both. As such, prevalence rate data for Asperger's has never been reliable. I would argue that more than half the people who have a recent or relatively recent diagnosis of ASD could have been diagnosed with Asperger's.

Dear Aspi friend,

let's not waste time arguing about the percentages.

The point of my thread is:

I'd be happy to meet someone like-minded.

(However the branding and percentages.)

Period.

 

[Hypnalis]

I feel like having both makes it harder to detect any of those 2 because we're too hyper for most to acknowledge us as having Asperger's. I have the feeling that people got my ADHD due to my high energy level but always thought I was an asshole because I "think and act like a bot" (quote from a friend).

I'm basically Sheldon Cooper if he did Crystal Meth...

You live in Berlin?

I was just asked to write an article on how it's living and working on AI with ADHD and Asperger's.

I don't live in Germany, and can't speak German.
I only answered because I like Iain M Banks and recognized your userid

That's a strange subject for an article though.
Aspies and people on the edge of the spectrum are over-represented in IT. People with "hyper" ADHD not so much - I suspect the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Though if it was being "smoothed out" with Adderal I might not notice.

But back to the article: AI in its present form is interesting and functionally quite powerful, but it's just tech, not artificial consciousness. Even AGI, while it's mentioned a lot, always seems to be "two years away". Just like Star Citizen and the biotech Theranos was going to deliver

If I'm right, the article will finish up just being "what's it like to work in IT with Asperger's + hyper ADHD".
Interesting, but not cool.

FWIW I get along ok with hyper ADHD, but only if they can regulate it (e.. with Adderal etc).
My brother has it, but doesn't believe in medicine. We can get along with the help of regular "time-outs", but only because we're family

 

[marc_101]

@Jernau Morat Gurgeh

I've been diagnosed with both, ADHD+ASD1, which in the past would be considered Asperger's. The combination is not that uncommon if you consider that most people with Asperger's who do not need extensive support and adapt/mask are not diagnosed, much less so if they were born before 1990. Also, in the US, there is no Asperger's diagnosis since 2013, only ASD.

I work in academia. I've worked with many people with the combo who either were never diagnosed or don't share their diagnosis. Of course, I can't be certain, but they for sure had many traits.

However, there is only one person that is like you, the one you see when you look in the mirror.

Good luck with the article. Consider that is impossible to separate your diagnosis from you. So my unsolicited suggestion is that you write an article about your personal experience and the difficulty or easiness you experience in your field. Many YouTubers and authors end up writing or talking about generic stuff because they try to fit the diagnosis to their experience rather than focusing on own their own reality, which is more valuable.

Also, I'd like to read the article!