[Update2] NT needs help connecting with autistic children (ABA trigger warning)

[Homulilly]

What was on top of the playdoh?

you mentioned the playdoh is offered in a white box.
You also mentioned on the day he was most unreachable, their was 'stuff on top of the playdoh'
What 'stuff' ?

re: local sign language, do you have time to learn some basics of sign used with this student?

We put a few pieces of paper (4-5 pieces?) and a roll of tape on top of the playdoh. Because we told the children to put things back themselves, some children might’ve put their markers on top of the papers, some underneath. I don’t clearly remember if the boxes he went through had markers on top, but I don’t remember markers on the floor. The papers and tape were thrown on the floor.

Learning signs is a great idea! I probably need time to recover some mental energy first, but I have plans to learn.

 

[Crossbreed]

Learning signs is a great idea!

My ASD3 daughter uses signs. Not whole sentences, but words like "more" or "potty."

 

[Homulilly]

Update 3/14/2022: I was told of a schedule change but didn’t realize it starts today. As a result, I’m no longer seeing the non-verbal kid in class. But please keep posting suggestions on how to communicate with non-verbal autistics. I’m still seeing the kid who did beads (mentioned on #12 and #14) in art class, but not TAing the class where he was told to do the beads. Currently I’m experiencing something NTs call “brain fry.” Speaking for myself, it happens when I receive too much information without enough time to process it, and I feel my brain working slower than usual and just really tired in general. Also observing ABA for 3 sessions a day is taking up a lot of my mental energy, some things are super sad. I’ll still try to read everyone’s posts but no guarantee. I probably can’t send very detailed replies. But I’ll catch up eventually.

Short version of my story. I graduated from college last year with basic knowledge of psychology and autism, but have never interacted with autistics before. I got a job teaching autistic children this January and my job training requires ABA. Most of the kids here are ASD-2 and ASD-3. I did not realize ABA is hurtful at first, but now I want to help the autistic children feel better. I’ll be teaching art and doing sandplay therapy after I finish my training (currently TAing art), so I can get away with not doing ABA. I’m currently not in the West as defined by geography and the culture. Ableism is very prevalent here.

List of things I need help with (some already have good answers but still included so I can get a variety of perspectives):

During ABA training I was told to exaggerate the tone of my voice, my voice itself, and facial expressions when I compliment the kids to get their attention. Does this work for autistics? Per my research on autism, this seems like it’s not going to work. I know this works for NT children.

There is a non-verbal kid here who’s receptive to hand signals. Ways to communicate with him?

Sometimes we have the kids do tasks, but I don't know if it effectively measures IQ for autistics. For example, we ask them to color in a picture, and many would color in patches and not confine the colors in lines. Some kids have difficulties stringing beads in a specific pattern (e.g. red, blue, green, repeat). Not sure if that's just autistic brains being different or really IQ, please comment.

A kid was told to string beads in red, blue, green order (mentioned on #12 and #14). He often starts with red blue green, but then end up stringing a lot of green beads or blue beads. In art, he tends to color the same section over and over until there’s a hole in the paper. Is he stimming? Other possibilities why this is happening? In my original reply I said he has good language skills, but after talking to him again, some of his language seems trained and verbal communication seems hard for him. He said he likes art.

A kid is labeled as “aggressive,” which I don’t agree with, but some days I struggle to communicate with him. Please comment on what you think might be going on. He's 8. He is verbal but from an NT perspective he seems distracted when he's speaking, is that a sign he's struggling with this method of communication? He understands writing. In class he's really excited when he's holding/playing with markers, but if we tell him to draw something, he stares at the paper with a frown and makes a mark or two and stops. If another child is drawing something, he copies their drawing, so a lot of his work look like replicas of someone else's. He does not copy drawings that are already drawn, nor does he copy another adult.
One time during art, me and the main teacher put a set of markers and one playdoh in a white box in front of each kid. Once he got up and took another kid's markers and started running around the classroom with it. Another time he went through three boxes grabbing playdohs when other kids were seated in close approximity to the boxes, and because there were things (4-5 pieces of paper and a roll of tape) on top of the playdoh, everything ended up being thrown on the floor. It seemed like he didn’t do it intentionally but couldn't control himself. Next time this happens, what can I do to calm him down quickly so he's not hurting anyone or taking other kids' stuff? He has a really rough time in ABA, and he always needs a box of his markers in sight. During ABA, sometimes he shoots up from his seat to get the markers.

Some of the kids here really do act NT now, should I encourage some autistic behaviors to them? But they are not doing it anymore, so how should I encourage it? Also I need to be discreet so no one notices me promoting these bahaviors or notices them doing it.

When an autistic person is stimming, is it ethical to stop them? Some of the kids here stims quietly, not bothering anyone, but I was told to stop them because it would interfere with their tasks (they are not doing their tasks when stimming). The tasks are for helping with intellectual disability because a lot of the kids here are comorbid. I'm assuming having kids do these tasks is okay? Tasks include putting together building blocks, stringing colored beads in order, and coloring a picture.

Are they aware of their surroundings when stimming? Some kids don't pay attention to me at all when they are stimming, be it voice, writing, or hand signals. What's the best way to communicate to them when they are like this?

 

[Telepath John]

Are they aware of their surroundings when stimming? Some kids don't pay attention to me at all when they are stimming, be it voice, writing, or hand signals. What's the best way to communicate to them when they are like this? Even if I let them be, another instructor will definitely force them "back on track."

My understanding and my experience has been that all non-verbal autistics are telepathic. I suggest communicate with them telepathically. Place an image if what you want to say to them in your mind, look them in the eye, speak no words, and think what you want to say to them.

Then respond to their reactions the same way without using physical words.

John

 

[Gerontius]

We put a few pieces of paper (4-5 pieces?) and a roll of tape on top of the playdoh. Because we told the children to put things back themselves, some children might’ve put their markers on top of the papers, some underneath. I don’t clearly remember if the boxes he went through had markers on top, but I don’t remember markers on the floor. The papers and tape were thrown on the floor.
.

That sounds about right for children of any descriptor. Little children aren't always the tidiest creatures. Even adults aren't prone to being perfectly tidy--looking around here every time I want to get the right record for the victrola, I end up scattering records & their paper sleeves all over the living room and now there's records on every flat surface. Kids and grownups are not always as regulated as ABA practitioners. Were I that much of a neat freak I might suspect I had a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder.

He doesn't sound that aggressive; he just sounds like he moves fast.

 

[Gerontius]

A kid was told to string beads in red, blue, green order (mentioned on #12 and #14). He often starts with red blue green, but then end up stringing a lot of green beads or blue beads. In art, he tends to color the same section over and over until there’s a hole in the paper. Is he stimming? Other possibilities why this is happening? In my original reply I said he has good language skills, but after talking to him again, some of his language seems trained and verbal communication seems hard for him. He said he likes art.

Is he stimming? Not sure.

Coloring a hole in the paper? Maybe he enjoys that. Maybe if he was put on his own with some music he likes, and no one bothering him, and no fluorescent light hurting his eyes, he'd draw something he wanted to draw.

About the beads--maybe he wants to make a blue or green necklace? Think of the old axiom "Ockham's razor," and strive for the simplest solution. Remember, autistic people are people first & foremost.

As for trained language, that's common for a lot of autistic people. I grew up reading only old books & mess from back before the '50s and '60s, and when I was a teenager I would set in my room and listen to music. I'd dragged home an abandoned Victor phonograph from 1914, blacksmithed it back into factory-new functionality, and started playing tons and tons of 1910s and 1920s music. Between my isolated location, my odd habits, and my out-of-touch relations with the entire 21st century, I didn't talk to many people.

So my accent when I went to college at 17 was half deep-Dixie southerner, and half Victrola. Yep. When I got excited or upset my voice rose and often sounded more like the rolled-R, heavily inflected "Transatlantic" accent. Words like "isn't," which would be pronounced "itn't" by other Southerners, came out "is n't" like the punctuation of a Willa Cather novel.

Autistic people talk funny; you'll figure this out as you go along. I have since improved my speech by about five or six years of working, studying, and learning how to manage life on the spectrum.

 

[Crossbreed]

Sometimes, 25¢-words are just more accurate...
(Other times, it's because the better word escapes me...

)

 

[Homulilly]

he just sounds like he moves fast.

Yup. I stumbled across a thread on this forum where people were saying how some of their behaviors are considered too fast for NTs. I think that was what happened. But usually when this kid is up grabbing things (the problem is the things are almost never his), he seems really out of touch (from NT perspective). For example, I would call his name or say "don't do that" but he just keeps going about his way. Sometimes when he cools off he would go clean up, but not always. The main concerns are other kids getting upset because the kid took their belongings, and safety issues.

 

[Homulilly]

He may be focused on himself because he's lonely or be unconcerned about others because he's had mostly negative experiences with people.

Oh my god your instincts are correct. A lot of things happened today, seems like most people in his life don't like him. I definitely need to bond with him before I force more art on him.

 

[Homulilly]

Their individual co-morbid conditions need more attention than their [base] autism does.** Those needs are more like traumatic brain injuries.

Thanks for the input! Can you provide a link or references for "needs are more like TBIs"? I'm curious so I just want to read more into it. It would probably also be helpful for me to help the children.

 

[Homulilly]

I don't know the full situation there but my initial impression is that the problem is not ABA so much as the use of antiquated methodologies and calling them ABA.

For example, ABA does not use physical restraint except to prevent someone from actually harming other students, staff or themselves. Like if they pick up something and charge at another student as if to hit them. It's not used to stop someone from stimming or just sit in their seat.

Rather then depending upon just the weight of your opinion, you might find it helpful to study ABA fully and then have the evidential weight of that to convince others they are not following it. It's not easy btw. ABA has much course work and practical hours required. To reach the highest level of certification, I think BCBA is about the equivalent, training and education-wise of a Nurse Practicioner.

It's not perfect but is probably the best option currently available for widespread use.

I agree. ABA was established based on classic operant conditioning rules, which can be used for a range of things. One of my psych projects in college was to change a behavior we have with behaviorism, and many people used operant conditioning because it's easy to track and carry out. ABA can also be used to treat disorders acquired later in life like OCD and eating disorders (although the effectiveness is debated). Seems like the problem here is that ABA somehow was advertised to "cure" autism, and then suddenly spiked in its popularity. And because it's an NT world, "cure" means act NT. This is much like the hearing aids situation in the US healthcare system. Hearing aids and CIs were initially made for hearing individuals who lost hearing later in life, but somehow got popularity after they were forced on children who were born deaf (often with abnormalities in auditory nerves). These children were then forced to act hearing when the hearing aids didn't even work for them. But the mentality of giving deaf children hearing aids never stopped because it's profitable, so it kept getting advertised.

When I had that college project, we were drilled to make the plans really clear. For example, say "sit still for 5 minutes" instead of "good sitting abilities." But seems like in the real world, the ABA practitioner gets the say in how clear or vague they write their plans. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the plans here says "help autistic children develop sitting skills," and how it's carried out is "make sure the kid doesn't move at the wrong time." Very vague and not helpful when actually carried out. If this were my college project, my professor would tell me that was a failed plan, because holding a kid down is a punishment, which hinders the kids' ability to sit down even further. I guess my point is that convincing others that they are not following ABA guidelines properly is really hard, unfortunately. With worldwide advertising and profit involved, it's even harder.

 

[Homulilly]

Update 4/27/2022

A bit more info + correction on the diagnoses of the children. I think I said before that they are ASD2s and ASD3s, and that's not exactly wrong. I found out that they were diagnosed with DSM4 or ICD10, or a localized manual that's a combination of both with added cultural considerations. The kids are diagnosed with "classic autism" in those manuals.

Current situation: I had a part of my training assessment, and it didn't go well. In short, I didn't technically pass the assessment. But, since I do some have skills and this center is in need of people, management let me stay. She did say that I'll need to do this part of the assessment again, and probably soon (within two weeks?).

Here's the problem. During this assessment, I realized that there is a possibility that management will make me do ABA sessions after she decides I've "passed" my assessment. This place has disorganized management, and here's a short summary of what's going on. When I first started training, higher levels of management told me that I'll be doing sandplay therapy and teaching art class after training. This was what initially got me to stay, since I was thinking I could do happier, more helpful things with the kids as long as I got through the ABA training. Today, it sounded like my direct management wants me to just start ABA sessions after she decides I pass.

The first thing I should do is to ask the higher management, since they have more of a say in things, and they are more reliable than my direct management. I seriously hope this is just a huge misunderstanding and I could just carry on with art class and therapy as planned. And since we are working from home atm due to Covid, I have about a week or two to straighten this out. This is the best possible situation.

Now here's what I need advice on. If they do decide that I'm going to start ABA, there is a chance that I could get away with not using ABA during the session. I'll just teach the kids whatever was planned, and since individual sessions are not usually observed by anyone else, hopefully no one will know I'm not doing ABA. But, I have to admit, this doesn't sound very plausible. Do you guys have a better way to approach this? Also, what are some ways to teach autistic children arbitrary skills like imitation and random commands like "clap hands?" Or is it better if I just quit altogether?

I want to quit for a lot of reasons. Disorganized management being a big one, because I'm often told contradictory things and getting stressed. Talking to stubborn parents is hard, it's even harder than talking to disorganized management. Children might also be a bit too much for my energy level. And, watching ABA for the past few months has sent my mental health derailing. But I also feel some responsibility towards the children to make their day a bit better. If I stay, I'll at least have a chance, albeit very slim. I'm clueless on how I'm going to carry out the plan of "pretending to do ABA and hope no supervisor comes into my session." Accepted this job because I thought I could help people, and I still want to try that a little, although now I have no idea how. Any suggestions on how to help the children in this situation?

 

[Gerontius]

Children might also be a bit too much for my energy level.

After some of the stuff you've put on the site here about your own intention & disposition, sounds to me like it's worrying whether you're hurting the kids that's running you down.

Disorganization will make someone quit any job. NT or autistic. Doesn't matter.

Looks like the country of Georgia still uses the old DSM-IV and ICD-10 diagnostics. For anyone who's curious check these out. I think these are why it wasn't recognized that anything was odd about me.

Diagnostic criteria for ASD on DSM-IV and ICD-10 - Mardaleishvili Medical Centre (autism-mmc.com)

 

[Tom]

A lot of the challenge of working in special ed is having to deal with trully disruptive and difficult behaviors. You want to get to more helpful and stimulating teaching, but the problematic behaviors can cause delays or even make it impossible. For example, how can you work with the 3 calm kids when the 4th is running around the room or even upending everyones desk.

Ideally there should be division of responsibilities based on the level of training and qualifications. An art teacher for example should only have to manage the art activities, and disruptive behaviors be handled by mental health and teaching staff.

Looking at job descriptions closely (if they exist) might help you find the niche you will fit best and be able to accomplish the most.

Just as an aside, disorganized administration/management is not uncommon. I think it mostly depends on the individuals in charge and their quality varies quite a bit. I thought the most important was the person at the top, as they establish the tone and philosophy of the organization.

 

[Crossbreed]

Do you guys have a better way to approach this? Also, what are some ways to teach autistic children arbitrary skills like imitation and random commands like "clap hands?" Or is it better if I just quit altogether?

ASD2s & 3s have two "problems,"

1. a base type of neurodiversity (like ASD1s) &
2. severe co-morbid conditions exhibiting various levels of brain damage.

ABA might be very appropriate for #2, but like for any other brain damage, it won't always be effective.
Learn about #1, so you won't inadvertently try to fix the part that isn't broken. (Someone who makes that distinction would be considered an ally to autistics.)

In America, we have a saying,
"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."