Question on special interests?

[harry]

So I've been listening to people with ASD talk about what special interests are. One woman, in a podcast, said that NTs might enjoy gardening but an autistic who likes gardening will also look up a lot of facts about it.
Here people talk about special interests in that way.
My questions:
1. If you see a person who besides doing gardening also looks up a lot of info and history of gardening then the he/she must be autistic?
Then you could always ask about the people who went all into the Beatles. Can't they be NT?
Even people with bipolar or ADHD seem to have special interests.

2. Do people really have to enjoy gardening if that is a special interest? Can't a special interest also be frustrating as you are trying to become better at it?
Many people tell me that their interests can be filled with frustrations at times. It is like they need days off from it.

3. Why talk about the term special interets when it is a very informal term? Why not use more formal terminology?

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Some special interests have a steep learning curve, which can lead to frustration, and I think that can be a barrier to NTs that some with ASD can push through.

 

[Tom]

So I've been listening to people with ASD talk about what special interests are. One woman, in a podcast, said that NTs might enjoy gardening but an autistic who likes gardening will also look up a lot of facts about it.
Here people talk about special interests in that way.
My questions:
1. If you see a person who besides doing gardening also looks up a lot of info and history of gardening then the he/she must be autistic?
Then you could always ask about the people who went all into the Beatles. Can't they be NT?
Even people with bipolar or ADHD seem to have special interests.

2. Do people really have to enjoy gardening if that is a special interest? Can't a special interest also be frustrating as you are trying to become better at it?
Many people tell me that their interests can be filled with frustrations at times. It is like they need days off from it.

3. Why talk about the term special interets when it is a very informal term? Why not use more formal terminology?

Having a special interest doen't mean you are autistic. Not having one doesn't mean you are NT. It has been observed simply that autistic people often have special interests.

The difference between 'Interest' and 'Special Interest' is just one of degree.

For example a person interested in music will have it as part of their life, as a hobby, perhaps even play a bit.

A person with a special interest in music will become very informed, maybe close to expert on some aspect(s). If they play they will likely try to attain real proficiency, perhaps become professional.

 

[harry]

Some special interests have a steep learning curve, which can lead to frustration, and I think that can be a barrier to NTs that some with ASD can push through.

I often hear how it is very good to engage in something you really like, whether you have ASD or not, when you are stressed or feel anxious. My thinking is that if you experience the learning curve difficulties then perhaps engaging in that special interests can make you more stressed or anxious. What do you think?

I once asked a professional who told me that many people with autism actually don't try to get better. It seems true. They just do what they do without trying to become better at something. Then when they try to engage in their interests with others they must focus on the things they had difficulties with or be alone with their interest. What do you think?

 

[harry]

The difference between 'Interest' and 'Special Interest' is just one of degree.

So what is the difference between an autistic and an NT being very much into the Beatles?
Can't both have the Beatles as a special interest? How will it differ? Perhaps even a person with mania (bipolar?) can be extremely interested in the Beatles?

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I often hear how it is very good to engage in something you really like, whether you have ASD or not, when you are stressed or feel anxious. My thinking is that if you experience the learning curve difficulties then perhaps engaging in that special interests can make you more stressed or anxious. What do you think?

I once asked a professional who told me that many people with autism actually don't try to get better. It seems true. They just do what they do without trying to become better at something. Then when they try to engage in their interests with others they must focus on the things they had difficulties with or be alone with their interest. What do you think?

Sometimes my special interests leave me energized to the point where I enjoy the give and take of being social. Case in point was my trip to Morocco with geologists and interested amateurs. I had a wonderful time trying to parse the stratigraphy in the anti-Atlas and engaged with the group. I felt alive and truly enjoyed things. The people were interesting and I felt useful at least taking fossil finds to the family level.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

This thread seems very similar to your other one @harry

H: People could you help me with NT and ASD differences in this context?
People: answer.
H: I dont see that much difference, what do you think?

Do you really want to know the answers to your questions, or Its a way to show us that there is no much difference?

 

[Tom]

So what is the difference between an autistic and an NT being very much into the Beatles?
Can't both have the Beatles as a special interest? How will it differ? Perhaps even a person with mania (bipolar?) can be extremely interested in the Beatles?

Yes, practically anyone could have a special interest in the Beatles.

 

[Thinx]

Maybe you have a special interest in special interests, are trying to find out information about them, and are feeling frustrated in the process?

I think it's partly a matter of degree and how engaged the person may become. I spent hours every day sometimes when I got home from work, years ago, writing poetry. Going over and over stanzas and lines, taking them to workshops despite the difficulties of attending workshops where people comment on your work, not always positively. I read poetry for hours.

I never was a very good poet. But I learned a lot about it, and went on an MA in English studies, loved the classes and the essays, plus the reading. I met other would be poets and writers, and had some friendships and relationships with some of them.

Self help and development was a other highly relevant one for me. Again it met my requirements for a semI structured environment in which to make social connection with some mutually interested people. Therapy groups and events. Cocounselling, therapy trainings, etc. It also led to a career. So interesting, and I also ran courses on it.

I guess some special interests offer us more than just their content, even if we don't get very good at them. And others may unexpectedly turn into careers. To my mind these were strategies on my part, to find ways around my communication difficulties. But they did create a life for me.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Yes, practically anyone could have a special interest in the Beatles.

View attachment 79684

I remember when Telstar topped the charts, and the British invasion was on. And, I was sorting electronic components to go to HS Electronics Classes (remember discrete transistors) during part of one summer when we were listening to the first of the Beatles, who were a thing well until my college graduation when their last record came out.

 

[PastelPetals]

ANSWER TO Q 1:
Special interests does not an autistic make. Autism is a constellation of symptoms and while restricted interests are a large part they are not all of it. Looking up facts does not mean it's a special interest either of course they may be part of it but my first interest as a child just involved me listening to a radio show for 4 hours every day and not wanting to do anything else. My interests now have less to do with looking up and reading and more with collecting knowledge via listening to a lot of music a using a lot of spotify data sites.

ADHD, bipolar,etc have hyperfixation. As somebody who both has autism and ADHD hyperfixations tend to be cyclical and intense but only for a couple days to months before another one cycles in. I will forget everything else around me or even have panic attacks being away from it but it will only be for a little while (all of my research binges are like this) whereas my special interests are more mellow and are around longer (my longest current one lasting for 8 years thus far) some occupy a middle space (for me it's some tv shows and the sims 4 ) where it will be a special interest but it will ebb and flow in intensity often when I am stressed they will spike as a comfort

You can also have an intense interest and be NT with things like beatlemania most were teenage girls and teenagers often have interests that serve in forming their identities and also in forming social relationships. As people get older they often have less time to dedicate to many things so having one thing like movies, books, gardening and learning lots about them can be a good way to channel energy into hobbies without getting overwhelmed. People overall like to learn and do things and consume things and it's not all special interests.

ANSWER TO Q 2:
Yes of course any interest can be frustrating as you improve. A special interest of mine was makeup and for about a year almost every day I did my makeup and it was bad for awhile but there was an "itch" of sorts to go back and try again. Things can be frustrating but for everyone NT and otherwise something clicks in the brain that makes you want to learn more and try again.

ANSWER TO Q 3:
The other terms used are fixation and obsession I will admit I feel a bit odd saying special interest out loud as it seems a little childish to me but the other words carry a connotation less of a genuine interest and more of a serial killer so special interest works fine for me for now though I do use the other terms at times.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

If I had followed my special interest, physics I would have become a physicist, college was cheaper than university. some time life gets in the way. Still obsessed after 50 years. I have other more minor interests that keep me busy. they have never interfered with my life. I do not consider my Autism a illness any more than being gay is a illness that must be fixed. I am just different and happy with who I am. The last thing I would ever want is some expert dictating how I should live my life because they got educated, and think they know better. Once the NT's get this, maybe life would be better for many of us. Fortunately my wife gets it or first discussion when we married.
Maybe Albert Einstein's first marriage would have lasted if this was respected, his second wife got it after he wrote it down.

 

[Bolletje]

Anyone can have special interests, regardless of neurological makeup.

 

[Knower of nothing]

I feel you on this one @harry , there's so many made up rules that have so many exceptions they basically get eroded into absurdity. In my experience, it will never be the intensity of the interest itself that can be read as a symptom but ways in which the interest expresses itself can, as that's just behavior. Maybe something about the interests makes people with ASD more open about being true to themselves and thus the behavior becomes easier to read. Now I've thought of this question:
Do you ever mask or otherwise hold back while engaging with your special interest?

 

[Thinx]

I can't really imagine any social or communication situation where I wouldn't be masking to an extent. In teaching I took years to get my head around useful delivery of topics, although I got good at providing interesting materials that engaged the specific group well, and would tweak delivery through consultation as I got more confident.

I tended to have excellent material, great questions for the group to follow up and use my usual lead from the back style, getting groups to work together to discuss and opine about the material, and report findings. This worked best for mature students, 16 to 18s tended to require, yet easily resent, more guidance. Mixed age groups in Further education, nightmare! In higher education not so bad.

We had to do a lot of work on self, and self awareness, both with potential carers and with trainee therapists at a higher level. This can open cans of worms and invite transference of feelings. But mostly an experienced tutor can learn to diffuse this, with candidates that are near ready to work with clients. Sometimes not though, or the person just can't face their stuff and feels let down by the tutor.

Lots of challenges there for NT or ND. I do think I was strong in plenty of areas including that my low key approach tended not to trigger anyone who was wobbly, and I was good at explaining why we needed to do what we were doing. Clients shouldn't be the recipients of our angst that we don't deal with. Plenty of research and writings to back that up too! Sometimes people didn't do the reading, though, due to busy lives or other issues. That could lead to them getting triggered more easily when getting feedback.

I experimented with less masking and being open about AS traits latterly, but this could lead to a loss of confidence and even jokey disparagement, I found. One group gave me a T shirt saying a quote from star trek I playfully used. Rather too often, I guess. Mask needed. But over time better understanding of and valuing of ND differences and abilities should improve, I hope.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

So I've been listening to people with ASD talk about what special interests are. One woman, in a podcast, said that NTs might enjoy gardening but an autistic who likes gardening will also look up a lot of facts about it.
Here people talk about special interests in that way.
My questions:
1. If you see a person who besides doing gardening also looks up a lot of info and history of gardening then the he/she must be autistic?
Then you could always ask about the people who went all into the Beatles. Can't they be NT?
Even people with bipolar or ADHD seem to have special interests.

2. Do people really have to enjoy gardening if that is a special interest? Can't a special interest also be frustrating as you are trying to become better at it?
Many people tell me that their interests can be filled with frustrations at times. It is like they need days off from it.

3. Why talk about the term special interets when it is a very informal term? Why not use more formal terminology?

I will take a crack at this.
1. Must be autistic. NO. People who were "all into the Beatles" during the "British invasion" of American music. Mainly this was a social and cultural phenomenon with some of the youth at the time. I would suspect most were NT.
2. Do you have to enjoy a special interest and can it be frustrating to become better at it? Two part question,...I would say MOST of the time, and SOME of the time. Most people do not have "special interests" in topics they do not enjoy or have an interest in,...and often the learning part is not necessarily frustrating, per se,...it can be difficult. Learning about a topic can be relaxing, even if it is difficult,...IF there is no pressure to understand it,...but more of an interest or curiosity. Learning is often NOT relaxing, even if it is easy,...IF there is pressure to understand it (school work where you are being graded and tested). As you noted, a special interest can be put aside for a while,...no pressure,...school work cannot.
3. Informal vs. formal terminology. Unclear.

So what is the difference between an autistic and an NT being very much into the Beatles?
Can't both have the Beatles as a special interest? How will it differ? Perhaps even a person with mania (bipolar?) can be extremely interested in the Beatles?

1. A stereotypical difference with your example here,...a NT might be very much into going to Beatles concerts, buying records, listening to them, purchase a T-shirt, poster on the wall, etc. The autistic might do the same, but also be a collector of memorabilia, learn all the detailed personal biographical information about each of the band members, know how many copies of a particular album were made, may have collected rare studio tracks, know how many tickets were sold at each of their concerts, dates/times/locations,....basically, take a "deep dive" into the topic well beyond a "normal" fan.

I often hear how it is very good to engage in something you really like, whether you have ASD or not, when you are stressed or feel anxious. My thinking is that if you experience the learning curve difficulties then perhaps engaging in that special interests can make you more stressed or anxious. What do you think?

I once asked a professional who told me that many people with autism actually don't try to get better. It seems true. They just do what they do without trying to become better at something. Then when they try to engage in their interests with others they must focus on the things they had difficulties with or be alone with their interest. What do you think?

Stress and anxiety with a special interest? I've had a long, long list of them,...and at no point did I feel anything but a curiosity and an enjoyment for learning. Like I said before,...no pressure at all.

The whole point in learning anything is to become better at doing something...or have a better intellectual understanding. I don't understand the perspective there. I have a cross-over special interest, neonatal respiratory anatomy and physiology, as this is my profession,...I am always learning and trying to get better. There's no pressure, per se,...it's just subject to my own personal curiousity and drive to learn. I know plenty of people in my profession that just put in their shift work and have no internal drive to learn more,...it's just not in them. I am autistic that has a special interest,...I am always doing research,...but I don't have to,...that's the difference.

Another way to think of the differences between a neurotypical with an interest,...and an autistic with an interest,...is the limits to which learning occurs. A neurotypical will often learn what they need to learn and answer questions as they come along. An autistic will keep digging, and digging, and digging into the topic,...likely this falls into the realm of "repetitive behaviors" where thoughts become intrusive,...and finally, at some point, when the topic has been intellectually satisfied or exhausted,...then the individual may move onto another special interest. That has been my experience with this.

 

[Darkkin]

I forget the source of the quote but it goes something like: What is one step back from obsessed...passionate. (I think it might actually be from a romance novel... (Arcane Society) but it is still apt.)

You can be passionate about a subject whatever one's neurotype.

Autistic special interests can border closer to obsession because of the physical wiring of autistic brains. As such, we can be consummate deep divers.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Yes I Enjoy Some Of the Deep dive's. My Wife s a descendent of the Berczy' settlers, they have a society, including newsletter to keep members informed. They have existed for years. preceding even our marriage. My of them knowledge has most likely exceeded what they have collected over the years.

 

[harry]

I know a person who wants to play the bass. He plays a little but seems to get frustrated at times when he has difficulties (for different reasons). The thing is that it is his special interests but at the same time something he struggles with. I think that makes him sad.
I see that happening to people. They have a special interest but never really become that good at it. They get frustrated. This is something people often refrain from talking about. Why do people refrain from mentioning this? Is perhaps what I mention not a special interest? Do we have a specific definition?
Am I the only person in this world who have seen this?

This is one of the reasons why I question psychiatry. They talk about special interests but never mentions the thing that I'm talking about. Psychiatry seems to simplify too much. They give too simplistic explanations sometimes and so do many people with ASD as well in my opinion.

I was told by a professional that people who have a special interest might have a very idiosyncratic way of engaging in it. My thinking is that this statement might be very true.
Often people with special interest don't have broad knowledge or skills that other people might have. I know one guitarist who is what one calls an aspie. He can play guitar very well but his strumming technique is pretty bad. I guess he could have become pretty good at strumming if he wanted to deal with his frustrating difficulties.
With special interests you avoid what you find frustrating? Or perhaps you see it as something that is not part of your special interest even if it is related?

 

[SpiltPaint]

So I've been listening to people with ASD talk about what special interests are. One woman, in a podcast, said that NTs might enjoy gardening but an autistic who likes gardening will also look up a lot of facts about it.
Here people talk about special interests in that way.
My questions:
1. If you see a person who besides doing gardening also looks up a lot of info and history of gardening then the he/she must be autistic?
Then you could always ask about the people who went all into the Beatles. Can't they be NT?
Even people with bipolar or ADHD seem to have special interests.

2. Do people really have to enjoy gardening if that is a special interest? Can't a special interest also be frustrating as you are trying to become better at it?
Many people tell me that their interests can be filled with frustrations at times. It is like they need days off from it.

3. Why talk about the term special interets when it is a very informal term? Why not use more formal terminology?

From my understanding the special interest is relative to the Hyperfocus element of Autism. To try and answer your questions;

1) All people can have interests, NT or ASD. In my opinion the deciding factor wouldn't be if they both researched gardening, it would to the extent of that research. I think you'd find the research that the ASD person did, would be alot more specific regarding the field of gardening they're interested in, likely to emphasise or fixate on points of data which are fact; and that the research the NT person did may be broader on the topic overall, briefly summarising different topics within the main topic, giving a more generalised outlook. While the ASD could go off on a tangent and get fixated on the one aspect they're interested in, and can't move on to the next until they've satisfied the 'need to know'.

2) Do they have to enjoy it if its there interest? I'd say yes, but I'd also say yes that it can be frustrating at times. I also agree I take days off from my interests, while reading a heavy detailed topic I will force myself to finish the book, often I'm taking notes to, absorbing everything to further my understanding of said topic. After I've finished, although I have other books ready to read I'm not able to keep the 'hyperfocus' going. I need to take a few days off from reading, rest my mind and conclude my thoughts.

There's a book called 'The Pattern Seekers' which appears to interpret Hyperfocus as the 'Systemizing Mechanism' and explains how its in both NT and ASD, but the autistic community show a much higher percentage of it.

3) I've never called it a special interest, I've always just said I'm obsessed with 'x' at the moment.