NT and Aspie Communication

[Tourist]

Give me time and your attention so that we can talk, really talk. Don't assume based on my opening sentences you understand what I'm saying or the perspective I'm approaching it on. Ask questions, repeat back to me in your own words what you think I'm saying, and give me the opportunity to clarify and correct. I will also do the same for you.

I have this problem all the time. Most people don't have patience with this, so they get defensive, sometimes in an offensive way.

 

[umbrellabeach]

Since the main difference between NT's and Aspies is in how they communicate, what do you (an Aspie) think an NT could do for you to make communication in an NT/Aspie friendship/relationship easier?

Simple - they could say and take everything at face value - no hidden messages or meanings; say what they mean and mean what they say; and not get distracted by people around us in the middle of our conversation and end up forgetting I'm even there. Also, no interrupting or talking over people.

 

[Tourist]

Simple - they could say and take everything at face value - no hidden messages or meanings; say what they mean and mean what they say; and not get distracted by people around us in the middle of our conversation and end up forgetting I'm even there. Also, no interrupting or talking over people.

Not getting interrupted, is quite a problem sometimes.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Interesting. I went looking, and found while the saying attributed to Occam that it was actually common principle in medieval philosophy.]

Yep, it was a principle long before Ockham (various spellings floating around ) was even born.

So how did Occam get the credit for this? Or is the use of his name simply a way to coin the phrase for its meaning rather than its originator?

Probably the second.

 

[umbrellabeach]

Not getting interrupted, is quite a problem sometimes.

Yeah. And what's more, I often observe NTs going totally quiet to let each other talk, but then they talk all over me. Most people don't know I have AS so I wonder why they still single me out to interrupt. Maybe they subconsciously detect that I'm different and then just go with their instincts... I also have a really soft voice even if I think I'm talking loudly, so I also think they might filter me out as background noise.
I've asked questions about this to a few NTs and none of them have really given me an answer (and sometimes they deny it, or just say sorry), so I don't know for sure what's going on. It makes communicating with them even more of a struggle for me.

 

[Tourist]

Yeah. And what's more, I often observe NTs going totally quiet to let each other talk, but then they talk all over me. Most people don't know I have AS so I wonder why they still single me out to interrupt. Maybe they subconsciously detect that I'm different and then just go with their instincts... I also have a really soft voice even if I think I'm talking loudly, so I also think they might filter me out as background noise.
I've asked questions about this to a few NTs and none of them have really given me an answer (and sometimes they deny it, or just say sorry), so I don't know for sure what's going on. It makes communicating with them even more of a struggle for me.

I can relate to this as well. What's bothers me the most, is the part of not getting an answer, as it went on till the point where I simply stopped meeting with them because I couldn't handle it any more.

 

[Judge]

I can relate to this as well. What's bothers me the most, is the part of not getting an answer, as it went on till the point where I simply stopped meeting with them because I couldn't handle it any more.

Yeah. I think I mentioned this in another thread. When you ask what you say might have offended or misunderstood someone and they don't respond. Makes me wonder if they consider such questions "stupid" not requiring an explanation when they really do. But then if they have no idea about autism I can see how this would happen over and over.

 

[Tourist]

Yeah. I think I mentioned this in another thread. When you ask what you say might have offended or misunderstood someone and they don't respond. Makes me wonder if they consider such questions "stupid" not requiring an explanation when they really do. But then if they have no idea about autism I can see how this would happen over and over.

I found it abusive and still do. The annoying part is - feeling guilty about it, since you never really receive an explanation. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal, but it eats away my self-esteem, little by little every time it's happening.

 

[Judge]

I found it abusive and still do. The annoying part is - feeling guilty about it, since you never really receive an explanation. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal, but it eats away my self-esteem, little by little every time it's happening.

Yeah...it sticks in your mind long after it happens. When you give it great thought and the other person for whatever reason moves on. Very frustrating. I'm wondering if that's part of the Aspie experience as well. That we don't let go of such things so easily.

 

[Tourist]

Yeah...it sticks in your mind long after it happens. When you give it great thought and the other person for whatever reason moves on. Very frustrating. I'm wondering if that's part of the Aspie experience as well. That we don't let go of such things so easily.

Did some googling, thought some things over. Came to conclusion - pack hierarchy. When someone is at the lowest step of it, nobody owes them an explanation. In a way, ignoring you is a way of telling - know your place. Would love to get a feedback on this one.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I found it abusive and still do. The annoying part is - feeling guilty about it, since you never really receive an explanation. Maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal, but it eats away my self-esteem, little by little every time it's happening.

I have a prime example of this in NT land. My friend Mary belongs to a HOA Board and she is a very good Board member with some really good ideas I think. What happens is the other Board members totally don't answer her when she asks a question and she told me this. I said, "What do you mean they don't answer you?" And she said, "Angie, I mean I'll ask them a question and all they do is look at me then start talking about something else!" I, myself, can't comprehend what she means because if it were me I would be right up in there face demanding an answer. This sounds like what you guys are running into, but it's not just with Aspies. When someone doesn't answer a person it means they are "ignoring" you and wish you would go away. It's extremely rude and condescending (especially if the people know you like in Mary's example above). Now if it's a larger group and a heated discussion is going on (like a debate) you can't have a low sounding voice - it has to be more forceful if you want people to listen to you. A weak voice also tells people that you may not really be sure yourself of what you're saying.

I would say for you to get away from the people that are treating you like this or if you are wanting an answer from a person acting like this, you will most likely have to get in their face for an explanation, but it depends on how comfortable you would be doing that. Also (Umbrellabeach), you may want to work on the volume of your voice.

Looking back, I believe even I have done this, but for me it is when there is something really important being talked about (that concerns me) and I'm needing to have an answer of what I should do. What will happen is I'll be talking with someone about said problem and someone else sitting on the side will pipe in with their thought (in most cases they are making fun of the problem) and I'll just look at them with this face that says "like are you serious, really?" and then I will continue talking with who I was talking to. Now if they were an Aspie and they asked me if what they said was something wrong, of course I would tell them what I thought about what they said. The thing is these are NT's making sarcastic "funnies" during a serious conversation. That's the only time I have done something similar to what you are talking about.

 

[KassieMac]

A weak voice also tells people that you may not really be sure yourself of what you're saying.

I would say for you to get away from the people that are treating you like this or if you are wanting an answer from a person acting like this, you will most likely have to get in their face for an explanation, but it depends on how comfortable you would be doing that. Also (Umbrellabeach), you may want to work on the volume of your voice.

No, that's how NTs choose to interpret a 'weak' voice … that's not at all what we're telling them, and it's not what it means.

If you are here to understand Aspies (as you claim), then listen … parroting the same free advice we've heard our entire lives doesn't help us, and it doesn't foster understanding. If you want to learn, then listen. Ask questions, but please keep your advice to yourself. It all boils down to 'be more NT and you won't have that problem' which just indicates how poor your understanding of us is. And when we ask you questions, answer them … don't assume some covert hidden judgment or insult and respond by lashing out. That may be what it means when NTs ask questions, but it's not true here.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

No, that's how NTs choose to interpret a 'weak' voice … that's not at all what we're telling them, and it's not what it means.

If you are here to understand Aspies (as you claim), then listen … parroting the same free advice we've heard our entire lives doesn't help us, and it doesn't foster understanding. If you want to learn, then listen. Ask questions, but please keep your advice to yourself. It all boils down to 'be more NT and you won't have that problem' which just indicates how poor your understanding of us is. And when we ask you questions, answer them … don't assume some covert hidden judgment or insult and respond by lashing out. That may be what it means when NTs ask questions, but it's not true here.

I don't presume to know everything about NT's, however, I have lived as one my whole life so I'm going by my past experiences and "assume" that I would know more about the NT side of things, just as you would know more about living as an Aspie. If I didn't want to know more about Aspies, I would just go read some books and call it a day. But I'm not doing that, am I? I am here on this site where I have made friends that I care about. The reason I started this thread is because I kept reading posts where Aspies would ask why NT's did certain things that bothered them and I thought that maybe I might be able to give them some perspective of the situation. If you don't like the advice I'm giving, then please don't read my thread - its as simple as that. It seems you want NT's to be tolerant of you, but why should they be when right now you are acting the exact same way? I'm answering anyone's question on this thread to the best of my ability whether you think so or not. You can take it for what it's worth or don't take it at all.

 

[KassieMac]

I don't presume to know everything about NT's, however, I have lived as one my whole life so I'm going by my past experiences and "assume" that I would know more about the NT side of things, just as you would know more about living as an Aspie. If I didn't want to know more about Aspies, I would just go read some books and call it a day. But I'm not doing that, am I? I am here on this site where I have made friends that I care about. The reason I started this thread is because I kept reading posts where Aspies would ask why NT's did certain things that bothered them and I thought that maybe I might be able to give them some perspective of the situation. If you don't like the advice I'm giving, then please don't read my thread - its as simple as that. It seems you want NT's to be tolerant of you, but why should they be when right now you are acting the exact same way? I'm answering anyone's question on this thread to the best of my ability whether you think so or not. You can take it for what it's worth or don't take it at all.

Odd that you would characterize it that way. Reread the post that I quoted above and you'll see … your idea of 'helping' is to tell us what our behaviors 'mean' (as if you know us better than we do), and telling us what to do (as if your methods would actually work for us). I've had that kind of 'help' all my life, which is why I've completely given up on any hope of being understood by anyone who thinks that actually helps … if they refuse to understand us, how can they help? The one thing I haven't seen you do is answer a single one of my questions. And I will not be sent to a corner by a boisterous NT pushing her way around on an Aspie site.

You posed the question of how to improve communication, but you don't want to hear the answer: listen. Don't tell us what we mean or how we feel, because you don't know.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I don't presume to know everything about NT's, however, I have lived as one my whole life so I'm going by my past experiences and "assume" that I would know more about the NT side of things, just as you would know more about living as an Aspie. If I didn't want to know more about Aspies, I would just go read some books and call it a day. But I'm not doing that, am I? I am here on this site where I have made friends that I care about. The reason I started this thread is because I kept reading posts where Aspies would ask why NT's did certain things that bothered them and I thought that maybe I might be able to give them some perspective of the situation. If you don't like the advice I'm giving, then please don't read my thread - its as simple as that. It seems you want NT's to be tolerant of you, but why should they be when right now you are acting the exact same way? I'm answering anyone's question on this thread to the best of my ability whether you think so or not. You can take it for what it's worth or don't take it at all.

I like the threads you have started, and I like your overall contributions to this site.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Odd that you would characterize it that way. Reread the post that I quoted above and you'll see … your idea of 'helping' is to tell us what our behaviors 'mean' (as if you know us better than we do), and telling us what to do (as if your methods would actually work for us). I've had that kind of 'help' all my life, which is why I've completely given up on any hope of being understood by anyone who thinks that actually helps … if they refuse to understand us, how can they help? The one thing I haven't seen you do is answer a single one of my questions. And I will not be sent to a corner by a boisterous NT pushing her way around on an Aspie site.

You posed the question of how to improve communication, but you don't want to hear the answer: listen. Don't tell us what we mean or how we feel, because you don't know.

I think you are misreading her posts. It seems that when it comes to Aspie-ness, she has almost always been asking questions.

She didn't tell us what our behaviours mean, she told us how a certain behavior is often interpreted.

 

[KassieMac]

I think you are misreading her posts. It seems that when it comes to Aspie-ness, she has almost always been asking questions.

She didn't tell us what our behaviours mean, she told us how a certain behavior is often interpreted.

I'm reading the plain English as it is written, and I've included her words in my post. I'm not reading between the lines or making any assumptions, I'm just replying to the words that are written, but if you choose to interpret some aspect that's not included in the words, that's your choice. She's also the one that keeps telling us to confront NTs that are rude to us or that read us wrong, that's what I'm doing. I've often had NTs tell me to stand up to people, but they always change their tune when I stand up to them … it's the same old double standard.

 

[zurb]

Please don't let this get personal. I for one really appreciate the efforts of nurseangela, but also really like kassiemacs perspective and can relate to her. Let's keep these conversations going.

 

[Tarragon]

Since the main difference between NT's and Aspies is in how they communicate, what do you (an Aspie) think an NT could do for you to make communication in an NT/Aspie friendship/relationship easier?

I think not being horrible is a good start. Perhaps you should try it sometime? :/

 

[Ste11aeres]

I think not being horrible is a good start. Perhaps you should try it sometime? :/

That is a distorted and untrue accusation.