Looking for answers

[Aspiemum]

Hi all, I'm new to this site and have been looking for someone or something to help me help my 20 year old son.
I have read many of your posts and found them very enlightening and they have helped me understand my son.

However, I haven't been able to locate any threads regarding strategies to help my undiagnosed Aspie son. He is high functioning and can look at people in the eye, hug etc but is so highly opinionated that he alienates all his friends and some family.
He does work part time but finds this very challenging and threatens to leave on a weekly basis as he perceives he is treated badly.
I have tried books but been unable to find anything that will actually help him recognise this trait and combat it.
Any help is appreciated

 

[xudo]

Welcome

 

[tree]

 

[Judge]

Welcome to AC. Two dynamics come to mind with your initial post.

Since your son is not formally diagnosed, it isn't apparent if he is self-aware of his neurological profile. The possibility and likelihood of being on the spectrum of autism. How conducive has he been to your suspicions? Does he appear to acknowledge this possibility, or reject it out of hand? IMO, self-awareness if the "cornerstone" for one to begin a process to help themselves. To establish some ability to understand and accept that they have some form of autism. Without it, no matter what constructive input or good intentions you or a third-party may offer may come to no avail.

The second dynamic here is to consider a critical tenet of ASD. For all the traits and behaviors indicative of being on the spectrum, there are some in which we might be able to address to some extent, and others for which we have utterly no control over. And to also understand that we have different degrees of manifesting such traits and behaviors. Or as I like to say, their "amplitude". You have to understand and accept that there is that which we can, and that which we can't when addressing autistic traits and behaviors.

Ultimately only he can tell you what traits and behaviors he finds workable, and others for which he either has very limited ability to change, or none at all. And he must be in a mindset conducive to his own self-improvement. It isn't something you can force or push on him.

Think of self-awareness as a "resource" that he must find from within.

A process which is neither simple, easy or linear, with varying amounts of denial. What's most important is for him to acknowledge he's on the spectrum, and willing to consider that which might improve his life provided he truly has the ability to do so. Otherwise much of any input may amount to "putting the cart in front of the horse".

 

[WereBear]

I'm pretty opinionated, and had to learn that I can still keep my opinions. Just... more to myself

 

[MonolithImmortal]

Agreed with Judge. If your son doesn't have any self-awareness then there's really not a whole lot you can do. Start with talking about your suspicions, provide him with some material to learn about it and see if he feels like ASD fits. If he does, then you can proceed from there, maybe with a professional evaluation, or at least with more self learning and increased self-awareness.

 

[Nitro]

 

[Keigan]

My life is built upon an overwhelming commitment to self to understand myself better. Through that I have amazing monitoring and coping mechanisms to help others to be with me.

People won't change until they choose for themselves. As others have mentioned, sometimes the amplitude of the trait is so loud that the individual can't recognize that their own behavior is not acceptable to society - then you need help from a professional that the individual can trust.

 

[Bolletje]

If at all possible, and if your son is open to it, a class in social skills might be very handy.
I didn't have access to one, and I had to figure everything out by myself. As @WereBear said, I'm also still very opinionated, but I've learned to keep my opinions to myself a bit more, because I get quite fired up when defending my opinion, and I've learned when it is and isn't appropriate to share my opinion.
As for disliking the job: I've had quite a lot of unsuitable and unlikeable jobs over the years. As cliché as it sounds, it has been a learning experience, because each job has taught me what is and isn't suitable work for me and what I can and can't do.
One thing I'm still working on: not trying to make every conversation about me

 

[Bella Pines]

If it makes you feel better, I was very opinionated in my 20s and didn't have friends as such, I could look people in the eye but wasn't much of a hugger and turned out just fine. I eventually adjusted and have a family of my own.

I try my hardest to help my sons, as we will continue to do, but I think we both know that they can only be helped if they WANT to be helped.

But sitting back as a mum is pretty much impossible, so you could do a few thinks in the background. Firstly, keep up the research. If he is aspie and eventually comes to you for help then you are ready. Secondly, maybe capture his attention and imagination, send him an interesting article on neuroscience and HFA and he might draw his own conclusions. And thirdly post specific questions here as and when they arise, like "my aspie son just yelled at his boss and quit his job, how do I talk him down!?"

And as HFA aspies, we can offer our best tips and tricks to survive every day life.

Good luck!!

 

[Aspiemum]

Thank you so much for responding it does give me hope.
He has had socialising issues from the age of 2 and I have tried to get him diagnosed since he was 7.
He accepts he probably has it and at aged 12 he had 2 sessions with a psychologist who although wasn't able to test him properly did conclude that he was an Aspie.
He has one friend but doesn't see him a lot so lives a lonely existence and has depression and melt downs every few months. He does agree he has it but sees it as other people's problem and not his. He's quite proud of his opinions which he sees as superior to others and is dismissive and frankly rude to anyone who disagrees.
I just hope like you he can overcome his issues as I worry so much that he will never be happy.
I hav

Welcome to AC. Two dynamics come to mind with your initial post.
Since your son is not formally diagnosed, it isn't apparent if he is self-aware of his neurological profile. The possibility and likelihood of being on the spectrum of autism. How conducive has he been to your suspicions? Does he appear to acknowledge this possibility, or reject it out of hand? IMO, self-awareness if the "cornerstone" for one to begin a process to help themselves. To establish some ability to understand and accept that they have some form of autism. Without it, no matter what constructive input or good intentions you or a third-party may offer may come to no avail.

The second dynamic here is to consider a critical tenet of ASD. For all the traits and behaviors indicative of being on the spectrum, there are some in which we might be able to address to some extent, and others for which we have utterly no control over. And to also understand that we have different degrees of manifesting such traits and behaviors. Or as I like to say, their "amplitude". You have to understand and accept that there is that which we can, and that which we can't when addressing autistic traits and behaviors.

Ultimately only he can tell you what traits and behaviors he finds workable, and others for which he either has very limited ability to change, or none at all. And he must be in a mindset conducive to his own self-improvement. It isn't something you can force or push on him.

Think of self-awareness as a "resource" that he must find from within.

A process which is neither simple, easy or linear, with varying amounts of denial. What's most important is for him to acknowledge he's on the spectrum, and willing to consider that which might improve his life provided he truly has the ability to do so. Otherwise much of any input may amount to "putting the cart in front of the horse".

If it makes you feel better, I was very opinionated in my 20s and didn't have friends as such, I could look people in the eye but wasn't much of a hugger and turned out just fine. I eventually adjusted and have a family of my own.

I try my hardest to help my sons, as we will continue to do, but I think we both know that they can only be helped if they WANT to be helped.

But sitting back as a mum is pretty much impossible, so you could do a few thinks in the background. Firstly, keep up the research. If he is aspie and eventually comes to you for help then you are ready. Secondly, maybe capture his attention and imagination, send him an interesting article on neuroscience and HFA and he might draw his own conclusions. And thirdly post specific questions here as and when they arise, like "my aspie son just yelled at his boss and quit his job, how do I talk him down!?"

And as HFA aspies, we can offer our best tips and tricks to survive every day life.

Good luck!!

 

[Aspiemum]

Thank you your post gives me hope. How and why did you change?
My son sees his opinions as fact and thinks other people are the problem

If it makes you feel better, I was very opinionated in my 20s and didn't have friends as such, I could look people in the eye but wasn't much of a hugger and turned out just fine. I eventually adjusted and have a family of my own.

I try my hardest to help my sons, as we will continue to do, but I think we both know that they can only be helped if they WANT to be helped.

But sitting back as a mum is pretty much impossible, so you could do a few thinks in the background. Firstly, keep up the research. If he is aspie and eventually comes to you for help then you are ready. Secondly, maybe capture his attention and imagination, send him an interesting article on neuroscience and HFA and he might draw his own conclusions. And thirdly post specific questions here as and when they arise, like "my aspie son just yelled at his boss and quit his job, how do I talk him down!?"

And as HFA aspies, we can offer our best tips and tricks to survive every day life.

Good luck!!

Thank your post hi

 

[Aspiemum]

He's not really open to any help at the moment.
How do you keep opinions to yourself? He seems unable to control his out bursts but also enjoys 'crushing' other people's opinions.

If at all possible, and if your son is open to it, a class in social skills might be very handy.
I didn't have access to one, and I had to figure everything out by myself. As @WereBear said, I'm also still very opinionated, but I've learned to keep my opinions to myself a bit more, because I get quite fired up when defending my opinion, and I've learned when it is and isn't appropriate to share my opinion.
As for disliking the job: I've had quite a lot of unsuitable and unlikeable jobs over the years. As cliché as it sounds, it has been a learning experience, because each job has taught me what is and isn't suitable work for me and what I can and can't do.
One thing I'm still working on: not trying to make every conversation about me

 

[Aspiemum]

I think you are right and suppose he's just not ready to change.
The pressure on the family is becoming over whelming.

My life is built upon an overwhelming commitment to self to understand myself better. Through that I have amazing monitoring and coping mechanisms to help others to be with me.

People won't change until they choose for themselves. As others have mentioned, sometimes the amplitude of the trait is so loud that the individual can't recognize that their own behavior is not acceptable to society - then you need help from a professional that the individual can trust.

 

[Keigan]

If the words about to be spoken are not nice friendly and requested, then keep your mouth shut.

He's not really open to any help at the moment.
How do you keep opinions to yourself? He seems unable to control his out bursts but also enjoys 'crushing' other people's opinions.

 

[Judge]

He seems unable to control his out bursts but also enjoys 'crushing' other people's opinions.

There lies one of the things for you to confirm for better or worse.

Whether he has any neurological ability at all to restrain himself from being condescending. For him to understand that this is not acceptable behavior in attempting to interact with others, where it can "get old" real fast with NTs and even other Aspies. And some people can't control it to the point where they can't even see when they're doing it. Or even that they'll be chastised over and over for it, and yet make the same social mistake all over again.

As Keigan suggested he might be able to consider things incrementally. To simply refrain from commenting altogether. It might be a foundation to build on which is easier perhaps than controlling what he says.

I cannot neurologically process sarcasm properly. When directed at myself, it's as if my brain locks up in a fog. Only to come out of it surmising that someone just insulted me. It's bizarre in that I can elaborate about it in such detail, yet be powerless to do anything about it.

How do I handle it? I try not to respond one way or another. Back to what Keigan said.

Your son may also have a sense of "getting even" at the Neurotypical world through predatory behavior. The thing is, there's no profit in that equation. It just makes life tougher. Tell him as such.

 

[Bella Pines]

Two points.

He has one friend but doesn't see him a lot so lives a lonely existence and has depression and melt downs every few months.

Firstly and most importantly, the very real problems. Depression and meltdowns. I'm not qualified to comment on depression, however meltdowns (screaming fits of rage out tears) or shutdowns (freezing, can't move can't talk) are quite common. There's a great and recent thread about people's experiences here that might help.

What are your shutdowns like?

The HFA aspie brain processes a lot of information and fills up. If we don't get alone time, we melt down. As far as I can tell, all the solutions are to see a meltdown coming and take steps to avoid it. Go somewhere quiet, avoid crowded places, listen to books or music.

How and why did you change?

Secondly, I didn't change. I am now happily married with sons of my own, a high paying job and nice house. But I didn't change, I just learned to accept who I was and played to my strengths.

I know this is completely left field to what you want to hear, and I understand if you reject this comment, so if you are not ready, then stop reading now. But if you really want him to lead a happy life, the most important thing you can do for him is to adjust your approach.

It sounds like you have spent the best part of 20 years trying to get him to change, fit into society, change his behavior, conform. How has that worked out so far? I would guess that not only is this not working, but there's a chance you might be antagonizing him.

As a HFA aspie myself, there are a few things you said that made me metaphorically choke:

• Help him recognise this trait and combat it. - why would anyone want to combat it? I have a gift, I see things clearly and think outside the box.
• He has one friend but doesn't see him a lot so lives a lonely existence. - I have always had 1, sometimes zero and as many as 3 friends! I am happy with that. In fact when I had 3 regular friends it stressed me out so much that I dropped them.
• But sees it as other people's problem and not his - maybe he as a point?
• Is dismissive and frankly rude - so are a lot of people. If people can't take it then they won't talk to him and everyone is happy.
• he can overcome his issues - apart from depression/meltdowns, he doesn't have any issues. It is who he is, it is his personality.
• The pressure on the family is becoming over whelming - which is their problem, not his. Not only that, their involvement is probably making it worst. Pressuring an aspie to conform could easily trigger a meltdown.

You freely use words like "issues", "problem", "change", it's like you are trying to fix him, but he is not broken.

My aspergers traits are part of who I am, it's my personality, I like being alone. I get really involved in special projects. I take my children to museums and theme parks but then need quiet time to clear my head. Likely Einstein had aspergers, should his mum have told him to stop acting up and conform?

So if you really want him to be happy, then accept him for who he is, stop trying to change him and focus on the real problems like depression. Once he has embraced his unique and brilliant brain, he will find his own way, he will find his place.

Sorry if that's a bit literal and not what you want to hear, but hey, I have aspergers

 

[SusanLR]

I've always been outspoken and as far as the being opinionated part, I've always been that also. I've had people say things like "You've always got to be right." Or "you always have to have the last word!"
Often it is because they don't want to explain themselves which leaves me maybe misunderstanding. They don't seem to want to define what they mean and just say they aren't going to talk about it anymore. My wanting to talk and understand seems only to make it worse.
Just walking away from the subject only makes me angry.
I stand my ground unless they can explain why I am incorrect. If they can show me in a logical truth that I am wrong, then I can be the first to admit I'm wrong and the anger subsides. I need explanations, not scoldings.
That only makes me feel I'm being put down.

This may be what is needed with your son. I don't know. It is hard with peers to understand this need. But, if the opinion is incorrect then in a calm, interested way, answering the whys might settle the issue. It's what works for me.

 

[whatever]

is so highly opinionated that he alienates all his friends and some family.

Much like my first encounter with the ilk of this forum. Welcome.

Being highly opinionated is a characteristic of seeing things differently. I don't want to jump into clichés but if one thing is evident it's that disagreeing is a sign that you really care about something else... in other words you necessarily see things others don't. I don't know what your son is into, but it really is a balance of utility/bankable talent and people skills. If you have more talent maybe u can get away with being more opinionated. It is in fact a matter of being courageously individual for some people. I don't advocate for elocution classes or protocol schools or whatever the hell other crap people are pushing. The one's who are unabashedly themselves are often driven to change the world. You can't do that and be like everyone else.

I've always been outspoken and as far as the being opinionated part, I've always been that also. I've had people say things like "You've always got to be right." Or "you always have to have the last word!"

These are the people of weak conviction or people who are tired of being wrong.

 

[Aspiemum]

I am happy to hear anything but he isn't happy he's very unhappy. He has no friends and hasn't had for 10 years because of the way he is

He can barely hold down s job as he perceives he is always badly treated. He threatens to kill himself on a regular basis so unfortunately it's him who hasn't accepted how he is and not me.
If he was happy and could function on a daily basis I would be happy for him.
He asks me why people do t like him and one of those reasons is his inability to accept other people's points of view and aggressive responses
He won't even consider looking for a career and I have told him there is no pressure but then he complains he has no future. It is him who won't accept who he is and not me.
I just want him to be happy and will do anything to achieve that but he is highly resistant to change despite how unhappy he is

He has tried antidepressants but don't feel they helped and point blank refuses to seek help
Maybe he needs more time to mature and accept himself but in the meantime his behaviour is destructive and extremely hard to live with. I often worry I will get home and find him dead so I disagree that it's not a family issue.
Thank you again for your comments

Two points.



Firstly and most importantly, the very real problems. Depression and meltdowns. I'm not qualified to comment on depression, however meltdowns (screaming fits of rage out tears) or shutdowns (freezing, can't move can't talk) are quite common. There's a great and recent thread about people's experiences here that might help.

What are your shutdowns like?

The HFA aspie brain processes a lot of information and fills up. If we don't get alone time, we melt down. As far as I can tell, all the solutions are to see a meltdown coming and take steps to avoid it. Go somewhere quiet, avoid crowded places, listen to books or music.



Secondly, I didn't change. I am now happily married with sons of my own, a high paying job and nice house. But I didn't change, I just learned to accept who I was and played to my strengths.

I know this is completely left field to what you want to hear, and I understand if you reject this comment, so if you are not ready, then stop reading now. But if you really want him to lead a happy life, the most important thing you can do for him is to adjust your approach.

It sounds like you have spent the best part of 20 years trying to get him to change, fit into society, change his behavior, conform. How has that worked out so far? I would guess that not only is this not working, but there's a chance you might be antagonizing him.

As a HFA aspie myself, there are a few things you said that made me metaphorically choke:

• Help him recognise this trait and combat it. - why would anyone want to combat it? I have a gift, I see things clearly and think outside the box.
• He has one friend but doesn't see him a lot so lives a lonely existence. - I have always had 1, sometimes zero and as many as 3 friends! I am happy with that. In fact when I had 3 regular friends it stressed me out so much that I dropped them.
• But sees it as other people's problem and not his - maybe he as a point?
• Is dismissive and frankly rude - so are a lot of people. If people can't take it then they won't talk to him and everyone is happy.
• he can overcome his issues - apart from depression/meltdowns, he doesn't have any issues. It is who he is, it is his personality.
• The pressure on the family is becoming over whelming - which is their problem, not his. Not only that, their involvement is probably making it worst. Pressuring an aspie to conform could easily trigger a meltdown.

You freely use words like "issues", "problem", "change", it's like you are trying to fix him, but he is not broken.

My aspergers traits are part of who I am, it's my personality, I like being alone. I get really involved in special projects. I take my children to museums and theme parks but then need quiet time to clear my head. Likely Einstein had aspergers, should his mum have told him to stop acting up and conform?

So if you really want him to be happy, then accept him for who he is, stop trying to change him and focus on the real problems like depression. Once he has embraced his unique and brilliant brain, he will find his own way, he will find his place.

Sorry if that's a bit literal and not what you want to hear, but hey, I have aspergers