Growing out of autism

[Cosmophylla]

I changed so much, and I felt my old self leaving. Like I have a ton of friends now, but they don't know me as my true self, and I can't show them who I really am because I don't remember who I am. It's like walking around in a totally different person's body.

I've asked some of my friends, and they're really surprised that I'd ever been even suspected of having aspergers.

This sounds exactly like one of the many different "lives" or personas I lived through before I found out about ASD. Always searching for the right group of people, searching for happiness... And always believing I had found the truth, and the real me. I never once imagined I was autistic, although I don't know if anyone else ever suspected it.

Now I can look back and see those discrete phases of my life for what they were: me doing my utmost at fitting in. I was so good at wearing those masks I even fooled myself. These days I can't do it as well, but nor do I find the need to. I'm more secure in myself and I'm aware of the masks as I put them on. And I accept the masks as part of me.

 

[Zarazai]

We can't grow out of autism, but I can certainly say that we learn how to interact with NTs enough to cover it up. I do a mix of acting like myself and acting like a NT depending on the people I'm around. If I'm around friends that I trust and family, I am myself because they understand that it is how I am. Except my sister. She's not even worth and insult on here. If I am around people who are just waiting for a chance to make fun of me or bully me, I'm extremely quiet and reclusive, as I would rather say nothing and give them no ammunition than say something and give it to them.

Most of the time I've learned to ignore the NTs that find my behavior weird and that think I should stop. If they want to say our autism is curable through age or some drug, etc., they can go shove their heads very unpleasant places.

 

[umbrellabeach]

You can grow out of autism just like you can grow out of being black or white.

 

[NtNoWay]

Outgrow autism, piffle, that's like saying you outgrow yourself.

I haven't looked at the links but it sounds decidedly like advertising for the ABA industry. The very fact that it calls only on those that observe the autistics is evidence in itself that it is not a serious study in reality but a propaganda piece for anti-autism types.

I have heard Tony Attwood refer to people becoming sub clinical. He said this at a talk a saw him give around a year ago. Essentially what he was saying was what most commenters have said and that is that people learn ways to pretend to be allistic.

Just because I can pass does not mean I am not autistic.

I spent the majority of my life knowing I was different and not knowing why, it was only upon autism diagnosis, that I truly discovered myself. I sure as **** have not grown out of it.

 

[pax]

I think, as I have aged, I've lost the energy and ability to blend in, and I'm losing the motivation to give a crap. I see a lot of what NTs call social skills as being a really dysfunctional way to relate .

 

[Professori]

I think, as I have aged, I've lost the energy and ability to blend in, and I'm losing the motivation to give a crap. I see a lot of what NTs call social skills as being a really dysfunctional way to relate .

That is really true. Some may think that is a casual comment, but I take it to be very accurate. And there is the amazing paradox: 'normal' society is dysfunctional in social interaction, but have the gall to write books about and conduct research on the 'dysfunctional' behaviour of those with autism.

Throwing stones in glass houses.

 

[PassingBill]

This does seem to be somewhat of a chestnut, and staple selling point for abusive treatments. I'm going for dx now, because multiple burnouts a couple of years ago have left me a bit ragged. Behaviour modification & abuse in my youth caused a lot of internalisation, and I was taught to comply. I sincerely thought I was mentally ill until I was 35. Once I get my dx I can have the ptsd addressed without simply having anti-depressants thrown at me. Hopefully I've always been who I am now, only trying not to be, it turns out.

By the way, if this is little known, there is a website called Scihub.org which is kind of the Napster of research Papers and articles. You can find a LOT of stuff there, for free.

 

[Professori]

This does seem to be somewhat of a chestnut, and staple selling point for abusive treatments. I'm going for dx now, because multiple burnouts a couple of years ago have left me a bit ragged. Behaviour modification & abuse in my youth caused a lot of internalisation, and I was taught to comply. I sincerely thought I was mentally ill until I was 35. Once I get my dx I can have the ptsd addressed without simply having anti-depressants thrown at me. Hopefully I've always been who I am now, only trying not to be, it turns out.

By the way, if this is little known, there is a website called Scihub.org which is kind of the Napster of research Papers and articles. You can find a LOT of stuff there, for free.

That's terribly sad - behaviour modification at an early age can actually be abuse in itself. I understand what you went through because I also thought I was actually 'insane' until about the same age, and suffered terrible abuse when I was a youngster.

That which is often classified as mental illness in so many cases is not that at all, but as we know, what society does not understand it sidelines or excommunicates as abnormal, rationalizing what it does with labels and thoroughly defined specifications.

It's good to be able to present oneself as as one is.

 

[forowls]

Well, maybe I don't want to "grow out of it". I've heard speculation, but I never thought there were people who actually believed it to be serious. Though I don't let my Asperger's define me, it's definitely a big part of who I am.

This raises questions:

would I know when I "grew out of it"? Or would it happen so gradually it would go unnoticed?

Absolute bollocks. Totally ridiculous.

 

[pax]

It wasn't meant as a casual comment . I know some teachers, and have worked in the education sector for a while ( apologies if anyone reading this is a good teacher) and have found that

a) A lot of them relate and interact on the same level as 14 year olds. There is a LOT of bitching, gossiping, backstabbing, manipulaion and passive aggressiveness. And no -one ever says what they mean.
b) If a "special needs"" kid is being bullied the theory is he, not the bullies need social skills training.
c) There is not a lot of understanding or compassion shown - this includes the special needs teachers.

I know that these behaviours are not confined to the education sector, (I ve seen similar behaviours from other people, including my family) but it's really obvious when these are the people trusted with instilling the next generation with values and sending them out into the world. And it's rife.

Rant over.

 

[Cosmophylla]

a) A lot of them relate and interact on the same level as 14 year olds. There is a LOT of bitching, gossiping, backstabbing, manipulaion and passive aggressiveness. And no -one ever says what they mean.
b) If a "special needs"" kid is being bullied the theory is he, not the bullies need social skills training.
c) There is not a lot of understanding or compassion shown - this includes the special needs teachers.

My husband is a high school teacher and he sees this where he works, and he hates it. He feels pretty isolated among his colleagues, although he told me that a new teacher started in his department who seems to be more like him. I almost said he seemed more normal, but remembered that my husband and I are not the norm. :|

It's unfortunate that the good, conscientious teachers (or any workers, for that matter) are the ones who get used in the workplace, too. My husband seems to be systematically targeted for being overloaded (more lessons, parent/teacher interviews, reliefs) and given challenging/disruptive students (the bullies; this doesn't refer to "special needs" of any sort...ASD kids may be disruptive at times but they aren't the annoying students) or not being assigned subjects he has specifically requested to teach and that he has spent many hours at home preparing curriculum materials for. Grrr.

 

[NtNoWay]

I was a primary teacher and could never abide exactly the behaviour you describe. I was never able to manage the social contracts involved and ended up giving up on the idea, however you are correct I believe in your assertions about behaviour and on the social skills training required of the victim of bullying.

 

[Professori]

It wasn't meant as a casual comment . I know some teachers, and have worked in the education sector for a while ( apologies if anyone reading this is a good teacher) and have found that

a) A lot of them relate and interact on the same level as 14 year olds. There is a LOT of bitching, gossiping, backstabbing, manipulaion and passive aggressiveness. And no -one ever says what they mean.
b) If a "special needs"" kid is being bullied the theory is he, not the bullies need social skills training.
c) There is not a lot of understanding or compassion shown - this includes the special needs teachers.

I know that these behaviours are not confined to the education sector, (I ve seen similar behaviours from other people, including my family) but it's really obvious when these are the people trusted with instilling the next generation with values and sending them out into the world. And it's rife.

Rant over.

Unfortunately, the 'working world' isn't any better, and in fact the behaviour one encounters there is incredibly dysfunctional. The irony is that the very people who should be mature enough to see this are the ones who behave dysfunctionally. In this way dysfunctional behaviour becomes the norm and is accepted as 'normal' over time.

It is incredibly difficult for an Aspie to try to discern what behaviour is 'normal' in order to fit in, or pass. To be expected to behave abnormally/dysfunctionally in this way is the most extreme of contradictions to me. Aspie behaviour is regarded as dysfunctional but we are then expected to hide or change that and take on another dysfunctional type of behaviour in order to fit.

This is ridiculous, but look at the world around us - much could be said.

 

[RecklessMick]

I don't think you can grow out of it, it seems to be genetic and that just doesn't go away.

I think perhaps as we age we get more mature but it does not change the fact we have Autism. I know that I feel things that others do not, otherwise others would react the way I do to things, the most plausible explanation is Autism, so I'm confident I have it, as that is what they told me I had and that makes sense, because I know I'm different.

If there suddenly comes a day when I don't feel these things any more, I'll let you all know. Honestly it's hard to imagine suddenly not being like that, so I'm skeptical of this study.

 

[NtNoWay]

Would that be like growing out of being Gay? Growing out of being Left-handed. Growing out of being human?

 

[Professori]

Would that be like growing out of being Gay? Growing out of being Left-handed. Growing out of being human?

I think the issue is that there are many who would like us to grow out of autism for a variety of reasons. We are an inconvenience at best, even though that comment is a harsh generalization. Ever felt you make a whole bunch of people ceaselessly uncomfortable?

But no, it is a silly assumption that we can grow out of autism - it will 'pass' when we pass.

 

[Cosmophylla]

Would that be like growing out of being Gay? Growing out of being Left-handed. Growing out of being human?

Well, some people used to think you could be "cured" of lefthandedness. They were just ignorant, I suppose.

 

[Professori]

Yes, I believe there is a way to outgrow autism, but honestly it isn't worth going through that process to achieve it.

Ok so I go to my local public school, and always have. When I was younger in elementary school, I was constantly being sent to school counselors because I wasn't "socially normal" with aspergers. That didn't change me. However, in middle school, I became extremely depressed and didn't care about the bullying and the special weirdness that made me, me!! I changed so much, and I felt my old self leaving. Like I have a ton of friends now, but they don't know me as my true self, and I can't show them who I really am because I don't remember who I am. It's like walking around in a totally different person's body.

I've asked some of my friends, and they're really surprised that I'd ever been even suspected of having aspergers.

I have been thinking about your post and must say that the issue of having forgotten your true self is the terribly sad outcome of having to change to be found acceptable. In fact, it is a tragedy, and changing one's true self should not be expected by a society which believes it is liberal and tolerant of diversity.

The proof is in the way society treats and what it expects from anyone who is not regarded as 'normal.' Really true friends would not expect that from someone who they really care for.

 

[Cosmophylla]

Really true friends would not expect that from someone who they really care for.

What you say is true. However, not being "normal" or socially accepted makes it hard to forge such strong friendships in the first place. Without those basic traits that appeal to any given person, a friendship won't even get off the ground, let alone be at a point where either party is truly accepting of the other.

I suppose those social skills are marketing points. Without the right skills, you can't sell yourself into a friendship. For want of a better way to put it.

 

[Professori]

What you say is true. However, not being "normal" or socially accepted makes it hard to forge such strong friendships in the first place. Without those basic traits that appeal to any given person, a friendship won't even get off the ground, let alone be at a point where either party is truly accepting of the other.

I suppose those social skills are marketing points. Without the right skills, you can't sell yourself into a friendship. For want of a better way to put it.

Your point is tragically correct, but it once again reflects the truth of the warped expectations of society in general. I have taken relationship and friendship and all that it involves very seriously and worked at plumbing the depths of true relationship for decades now. I have done this precisely because of the superficiality of societal expectations in 'friendship'.

What society expects is for one to 'sell' oneself so that individuals can find something that will please them in what is presened. In other words, people look for how they can benefit from someone else and that will be the basis for 'friendship'. That is contractual acquaintance and not friendship, self-centered and selfish.

There is a whole book to be written on this. However, I have very few people who I would regard as 'friends' (in fact, two) and am very much a loner, but those few are quite clear about knowing who I really am and accepting me and all of my strange ways, as well as my way of thinking and speaking, etc. But they will not simply leave me there but help me to grow through honest feedback. I help them to grow as well - after all, you have to grow within yourself if you are prepared to befriend an Aspie!

That takes years, decades of commitment, but it is only through those true friendships that I have been able to grow from a fundamentally smashed human being, without the motivation, energy or will to live, to someone who has some form of self-worth with some form of 'executive functioning' on an ongoing basis. (I really dislike that term. There is nothing executive about it, but that is another story).

I write this very simplistically because it is not without great,great hardships at times. I am convinced that we cannot grow without true, deep and committed friendships. Anyway, I simply share from my own perspective, bearing in mind that each one has their own unique circumstances and character with unique Aspie traits. I certainly do not mean to minimize the experiences of others.