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Giving tips
- Thread starter Progster
- Start date
I guess speaking in riddles is part of some autism traits? I feel totally left out.
No. You're just one of the people who doesn't get me
Nothing to worry about on either side
No. You're just one of the people who doesn't get me
Nothing to worry about on either side
Yes but, as a counselor that has worked with ALL sorts of people, it frustrates me - there are very few people in my life, that I completely have no idea what they are alluding to. You are speaking English, yet, I do not understand your responses. Riddles are impervious to my perceptions.
I wasn't speaking in a riddle.
I was citing the likely source of the inspiration
for the reference made in the book,
The Hitchhker's Guide to the Galaxy,
published in 1979.
Alice in Wonderland,
published in 1865.
Yes, in the USA there are clear rules, 15% from what I understand. Here where I live in Southern Europe, the rules are a lot more blurred. Many unwritten social rules.
Again, this is true for the USA. The point that I'm making is that I'm not disputing how things are, but expressing an opinion on how I think things should be. I can't change the way things are, but I can have an opinion on them and suggest how things could be better.
In my country, there is a law requiring that workers be paid minimum wage and health insurance (though some businesses still work and hire staff illegally), and tips are not manditory. There is certainly no legal requirement. There is no fixed percentage, no fixed rule for it, many people do tip - usually they round up the bill rather than ask for change, or leave some change on the table when they leave - but some don't. Not tipping is not a huge taboo or frowned on so much as it seems to be in the USA. Please note that I have never visited the USA so I'm not aware of your customs, practices and attitudes to certain things, I'm learning.
My point was that the company I worked for took very good care of their employees so that they thrived in that business. They are a equipment dealer in Idaho, not a Fortune 500 company. Yet they do good. It seems to me that more businesses could do themselves and their employees a lot of good with that kind of policy. I understand the reality of how it is.
This shows a major league difference in just how the incomes are taxed in the UK,vs. the USA.
Comparison of UK and USA take home | The Salary Calculator
Here, we get to take home more than y'all do in the UK, so in the bigger picture,your legislation concerning pay for workers costs you on payday long before you make a transaction that requires a tip.
If you are paying income tax, you haven't even received a service,yet you are still forced to pay for it in the long run.
To me,higher income taxation is a disturbing concept, well beyond the audacity of a system based on tips.
Yes, some people stiff service workers for tips, but on the other hand,many like myself over-tip according to my satisfaction with my service.
As far as kitchen workers not always sharing the cut of the front line tips, they had the same opportunities as the servers to gain those positions, so that point is moot.
The costs of running the government are approximately the same.
So overall it's not much different.
The rich pay less in both countries.
In America, the poor vote much more vociferously for the rich to pay less.
I think if you are paying income tax it is harder to see what the service you receive is.
It's not that there is no service.
A lot of Americans believe strongly in a sense of community but what is socialism other than a larger version of that?
Certainly from a European perspective.
It's a complex system based on many differences in Europe and America.
A straight up tax comparison isn't the full picture imo
@Nitro Thanks for the comparison chart. It's interesting to compare the US and the UK, though I no longer live in the UK and haven't done so in the last 20 years, so out of touch with tax legislation there. When I said 'my country,' I was really referring to the country I live in, Greece. Taxation is a different issue which really warrants its own thread.
Could you please explain the following, it is not clear what you mean:
Could you please explain the following, it is not clear what you mean:
What service do you refer to?
Could you please explain what you mean?
What does 'stiff' mean?
I don't think that my brother, who actually does work in kitchens and has Tourettes and learning difficulties, would agree with this point. Getting a job, any sort of job, is not easy, you don't get to choose. Many people take what they can get.
Service: a haircut,a served meal,a taxi ride
Stiff: to walk away without ever considering a tip for no reason other than to be a jerk.
If they are not suitable for a server position,should an employer hire them anyway, just give everybody equal pay and call it a day just to keep things fair?
If you force a business to spend money they don't want to, count of them closing it up just to save them the added costs.
I know I would.
No,I don't like the way it looks for the higher income brackets in the UK.
Can you offer any resources to verify your side of the story?
Yes. Google.
Yes, this is what I've been saying all along. Fair, equal pay, and not having to rely on tips to make a decent living.
And what I've been saying all along is after you make a business no longer profitable for the owners,they are forced to close.
The vast majority of people at work are paid a fixed amount, there are no perks for doing extra well except praise if you are lucky and there are no tips, this includes most jobs including some service jobs like customer service telephone operators who you can't tip even if you wanted to, but in the long term some people in these positions hope for promotion or at least a good reference if you wish to move on in future. Restaurant staff and any other staff in the service sector should also get a good enough wage without taking tips.You are talking about two different skill sets based on differing pay levels.
The restaurant industry does not have as much wiggle room to offer larger incentives without driving the cost of the end product up across the board, something that would drive many more customers away.
Taxis don't exist out here in the rural areas where I live, but personally if I wasn't comfortable with the service I was provided with, the simple solution would be to not use them in the future.
I worked in both service and manufacturing, employing many workers along the way, offering services that were unique where there was plenty of room to grant incentives and perks as rewards for showing me that you wanted to help my bottom line.
If I passed out rewards just for showing up to work,there would be no incentive to show me what an employee thought of my business now, would there?
Driving a taxi or serving food is a one on one experience with the customer where you can decide based on merit what the person who interacted with you was worth to you for your experience with them.
It works both ways, you know, where you can also choose to leave nothing, something that will negatively effect their bottom dollar that may motivate them to offer better service in the future
If tipping is not a part of your thought process,then by all means, don't tip, but on the same hand, don't complain if it puts you in a negative light when you don't.
Many restaurants add an automatic tip to the bill anyway that drives up the price and they still do well, then the service staff are effectively just getting a commission, but I'd rather something similar happen without a tip being mentioned on the bill and without tips being accepted at all because it feels like you're being forced to pay it when a tip should be optional, there's no way anyone is likely to demand that the automatic tip is removed from their bill even though legally they could and they should be-able to without repercussions or them feeling like they've insulted the staff, also this system still often leaves the option for people to tip a higher amount, so people who only pay the default tip are still looked down upon compared to people who pay extra. Staff in service sectors should do a good job anyway, the same as a good job is expected without tips in other work sectors, but employers in all sectors of employment could choose to offer bonuses based on extra good work if they wanted to.
Personally I want to know how much something costs and I don't want to be expected to make tips anywhere, I also don't want staff to artificially butter up to me, pretending that they like me Etc. simply because they want a tip, it's makes me feel awkward and to me it's virtually a type of begging, then the staff feel distaste against you if you decide to exercise your legal right and not give a tip at all. I will most definitely never give a tip if someone hints for one as this is totally wrong and is definitely begging, this is all made much worse by Uber since drivers are more likely to rate customers down if they don't tip and this is effectively a type of blackmail, E.g. pay me a tip or I will rate you down and this will make other drivers prejudice against you, often cancelling and refusing to turn up, thinking you are some sort of a thug. I'm sorry, but it's just not on.
If I want to use another service then fine, but I shouldn't be forced to because I don't tip often, this is wrong, I should be treated the same as everyone else and receive a good service whether I choose to tip or not. This is not the case with Uber which is often cheaper as long as there's no surge, plus if you have a reasonable rating you also get a driver a lot quicker than other taxis and it's convenient to have the cost come straight out of your bank as I don't like carrying much cash. I have done nothing wrong by not tipping often, I shouldn't be treated like some dodgy and also for the reasons I mentioned in this article where drivers are so prejudiced and judgemental that many are refusing to pick me up.
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Fair enough.
Tipping is useless, as is Uber.
The easy solution instead of beating yourself up over it is to
never tip,and quit using Uber.
Then they need to charge the customer more for the service to cover the costs, which would work out the same for the customer as they have to pay more when they pay the tip anyway. If a customer accepts to pay a tip so that the staff can earn a decent living, then they should be happy to pay a little extra on the charge for a service where they know that they staff is being treated and paid fairly. I find it unacceptable that staff should be hired and paid such a low wage by their employer, so that they have to rely on tips. There is no excuse IMO for not paying staff at least the minimum wage. IMO, all countries should have a law requiring a minimum legal wage, and then enforce that law.
I think the issue in this thread is that we are all from different counties, with different laws, regulations and working conditions, so we are coming at this from different angles. You are talking about the USA and conditions which exist there, but it isn't the same everywhere. As said previously, where I live, things are different and not quite so clear cut: a minimum legal wage exists, and tips are appreciated by staff, but not manditory or automatically expected as they are in the USA. Eating out is perhaps more expensive where I live, but staff receive a minimum wage by the hour, and it is not required to tip, if one does, about 10% or just some small change. In the USA, that might be frowned upon or seen as an insult, but not here. They get the minimum wage already and are grateful for any extra cash. Businesses go bust if they don't offer good service or hygiene, or if they overprice, or don't attract enough customers, just like any business anywhere in the world. Restaurants with hired staff usually charge more and are of higher quality than family-run businesses, which tend to be cheaper, but more basic.
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