Core Difference with NTs: I Care More

[Judge]

This reinforces for me my decision not to tell this particular person in my family. Thx for the insight. Sorry it's been so tough for you.

The irony though is that I told my brother, who understood it beyond my expectations. He actually helped validate it in reviewing things that happened in my childhood...things that my brother knew that my cousin did not.

 

[NTgirl4276]

Her precise words:

"Each person needs to decide for themselves the value of deciding whether they fit into either mold. Like we discussed with the question of genetic testing for a particular cancer gene...what will I do with the information? How will I let it affect my life and will I allow the outcome, label, diagnosis, perception to define who I am? I think that our ability to move past any of the perceived difficulties in our lives are simple part of the lessons we chose to work on in this incarnation on earth. I can only believe that what we feel are the really tough lessons seemed like a good idea on the Otherside.

My choice at this time is to just try and be who I am according to what resonates to me as my truth and try not to allow the influences, opinions and labels of others to sway me. So much easier to aspire to than to practice on so many occasions. I think the sign that we have learned all we can in this lifetime is when we take our final breath."

ugh, Judge, i am SO sorry that you have to deal with that kind of response--and from family, no less. (I say that not because I'm someone who believes that a biological blood connection is inherently meaningful, but because I know that family relationships are often logistically harder to sever than others.)

I think responses like this (I often categorize them in the "self-responsibility" camp of arguments) are well-intentioned but ultimately so problematic--and DogwoodTree makes some great points above (ramble on, Dogwood! ). While it is certainly important to recognize one's own control over his/her outlook on the world, that doesn't mean we can simply will material realities to be different. It's basically saying: if the world is difficult for you, it's your fault. Come onnnnnn. And if she said "perceived difficulties"?! That's a back-handed comment, if I ever heard one.

And, even if it is true that she has allowed the opinions of others not to sway her (how is that ever possible?!), good for her. But that doesn't mean it is possible or even desirable for everyone else.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I've known some really passionate allistic folk, but I can't say for certain if I think we're on average more emotional. Most of the people I've worked with just wanted to hurry up and get home so they could get back to things they enjoyed, like time with family, friends, or hobbies, so I do tend to be a bit more dogmatic about my job than they do. But, I've grown up around rednecks and country people. I'm used to burning passions about crops, farms, cars, weaponry, sports, and maybe a little partying. Granted, I've often also wondered if the entire stadium at a football game or rodeo needed a psychiatric evaluation.

Also, I kinda find some people's lack of intelligence or passion to be very relaxing and soothing (unless they're jerks, then I find somewhere else to be). I really, really enjoy the company of old farmers. They aren't high tech, they aren't constantly analyzing every last little political debacle, they may not can even do basic algebra or spell worth a hill of beans. But they're kind, they're easy to talk to, and they've usually got a good sense of humor. I feel a lot better after being around them, and sometimes I get lucky and my oddities can make them laugh or solve a problem for them. And I usually lose every game of Checkers I play... That's okay, playing is more fun than when the game ends because a win or lose means it's over. I just like to play!

What I can't help but wonder is if allistic people live in a fuzzy bubble! When I step outside, I am aware of the smell of the grass, trees, air, and also their modified smell based on temperature. I feel the grass, the wind, the thickness of the air from humidity, the heat or cold, the formation of the land and every dip or bump as I walk, and whatever effect is had on my clothes and hair. I hear the leaves bumping against each other, the wind blowing over everything, all the bugs and varmints. I'm very aware of the shape of lots of leaves, the ground, movement, and goodness knows what all else. And this is constant input from every sense! One great, big, multi-level analysis judging my surroundings whether enjoying or dreading it or simply experiencing it, and that's not counting if I happen to be daydreaming or thinking about random things right along with it. And some of my allistic friends and family tell me they only notice one or two things at a time? Oh my goodness! How do these people live??

 

[NTgirl4276]

What I can't help but wonder is if allistic people live in a fuzzy bubble! When I step outside, I am aware of the smell of the grass, trees, air, and also their modified smell based on temperature. I feel the grass, the wind, the thickness of the air from humidity, the heat or cold, the formation of the land and every dip or bump as I walk, and whatever effect is had on my clothes and hair. I hear the leaves bumping against each other, the wind blowing over everything, all the bugs and varmints. I'm very aware of the shape of lots of leaves, the ground, movement, and goodness knows what all else. And this is constant input from every sense! One great, big, multi-level analysis judging my surroundings whether enjoying or dreading it or simply experiencing it, and that's not counting if I happen to be daydreaming or thinking about random things right along with it. And some of my allistic friends and family tell me they only notice one or two things at a time? Oh my goodness! How do these people live??

.... forgive me but, this sounds sort of lovely!!!! i can imagine that it probably gets overwhelming at times, but what you describe here sounds like such an all-encompassing, body experience. i can't say i experience that often; it might happen every once in awhile, but conditions have to be ideal. for example, i recently took a trip to Portland, Maine, and felt like I could viscerally feel every element--material and otherwise--surrounding me when I took a ferry trip around all the islands in the bay, at sunrise. it was amazing.

maybe i was totally wrong earlier! if this sort of dynamic, multi-faceted, all-consuming experience is part of what you were talking about in your original post, Dryope, maybe this is something that is more common among Aspies. maybe our differences lie not in how much we care, but our sensory experience of "care" (Beverly's point earlier), or how we emote our "care."

i should also add that a thread posted by grommet seems to be talking about something similar ("I overreact to things"), which has contributed to my evolving perspective on this.

 

[grommet]

What I can't help but wonder is if allistic people live in a fuzzy bubble! When I step outside, I am aware of the smell of the grass, trees, air, and also their modified smell based on temperature. I feel the grass, the wind, the thickness of the air from humidity, the heat or cold, the formation of the land and every dip or bump as I walk, and whatever effect is had on my clothes and hair. I hear the leaves bumping against each other, the wind blowing over everything, all the bugs and varmints. I'm very aware of the shape of lots of leaves, the ground, movement, and goodness knows what all else. And this is constant input from every sense! One great, big, multi-level analysis judging my surroundings whether enjoying or dreading it or simply experiencing it, and that's not counting if I happen to be daydreaming or thinking about random things right along with it. And some of my allistic friends and family tell me they only notice one or two things at a time? Oh my goodness! How do these people live??

This is me exactly. This is how I live. I did not know other people saw the world this way too but yes, every day it is like this. I can't not notice things. I see it all and at the same time I am often blind to people but all their movements and smells and especially sounds, come right at me like missiles or their faces seem as big as billboards.

Yes, every blade of grass, the waves the wind makes in the grass, the air pressure, the scents and the scents changing. The slightest breeze. It seems like I can feel the heaviness in the ground when I see hills in a park or the hardness when I see flat ground. Trees are very personal to me, they are almost like individuals. Rocks fascinate. All this and yes like you, my thoughts and daydreams as well. It is quite a lot. And people ask me what I do for a living. I live each day like I am hanging on to a rollercoaster with the sounds and wind screaming, the fall from the heights. I live.

 

[Beverly]

I know some do not perceive much of their environment, or they choose to ignore most of it but, to me that is abnormal or ignorant of them. If being aware of all that your environment is is abnormal, then my entire tribe and, I would guess, every Native American out there is abnormal.

How can you not be aware of it all. Wouldn't you make mistakes, stay out too long and be caught in a downpour, step on a poisonous creature and be stung or bitten?

 

[Dryope]

Lest I be tarnished with the brush of thinking my impressions are correct:

Perhaps it's just me misreading them? Or perhaps they are masking their true feelings?

I think this is closer to the mark.

 

[AsheSkyler]

.... forgive me but, this sounds sort of lovely!!!! i can imagine that it probably gets overwhelming at times, but what you describe here sounds like such an all-encompassing, body experience. i can't say i experience that often; it might happen every once in awhile, but conditions have to be ideal. for example, i recently took a trip to Portland, Maine, and felt like I could viscerally feel every element--material and otherwise--surrounding me when I took a ferry trip around all the islands in the bay, at sunrise. it was amazing.

maybe i was totally wrong earlier! if this sort of dynamic, multi-faceted, all-consuming experience is part of what you were talking about in your original post, Dryope, maybe this is something that is more common among Aspies. maybe our differences lie not in how much we care, but our sensory experience of "care" (Beverly's point earlier), or how we emote our "care."

i should also add that a thread posted by grommet seems to be talking about something similar ("I overreact to things"), which has contributed to my evolving perspective on this.

It's quite something when you're able to get in that zone, ain't it? Especially when it's a perfect day for the season. One reason I love autumn so much. The colors! The wondrous low humidity! The smells of dry things and raked leaves being burned to clean yards up! (That seriously needs to be made into a cologne.)

But, yes, it can be completely overwhelming on a bad processing day. Actually it's one of the contributors to some autistic people having a shutdown or meltdown, their environment overwhelms them. At least, on an exceptionally bad processing day for me, the outdoors usually help me out while indoors make it worse. Today I was having a lot of trouble forming basic thoughts at work (chatty coworker today), but a few minutes outside this evening and I felt alive and normal again. Strange how talking wears me down so bad, yet all that input from being outside livens me up. As one occupational therapist said, inconsistency is the hallmark of every neurological condition!

I also have a joke about Aspies that's semi-relevant. "A better description for autism is 'no collective concept of middle ground'". You've got your Aspies that are completely numb and apathetic, and then you've got your ones that are hyper-emotional and hyper-sensitive. Some who don't talk, some of us who never shut up... The list goes on!

This is me exactly. This is how I live. I did not know other people saw the world this way too but yes, every day it is like this. I can't not notice things. I see it all and at the same time I am often blind to people but all their movements and smells and especially sounds, come right at me like missiles or their faces seem as big as billboards.

Yes, every blade of grass, the waves the wind makes in the grass, the air pressure, the scents and the scents changing. The slightest breeze. It seems like I can feel the heaviness in the ground when I see hills in a park or the hardness when I see flat ground. Trees are very personal to me, they are almost like individuals. Rocks fascinate. All this and yes like you, my thoughts and daydreams as well. It is quite a lot. And people ask me what I do for a living. I live each day like I am hanging on to a rollercoaster with the sounds and wind screaming, the fall from the heights. I live.

That had to be my biggest shock when I first stumbled on my self-diagnosis. I can accept most people aren't that socially anxious, or have better memories concerning the location of their car keys, or could live in complete chaos without ever having a plan for anything. But not to feel every little thing? It's easier for me to understand the concept of a person being blind or deaf!

I know some do not perceive much of their environment, or they choose to ignore most of it but, to me that is abnormal or ignorant of them. If being aware of all that your environment is is abnormal, then my entire tribe and, I would guess, every Native American out there is abnormal.

How can you not be aware of it all. Wouldn't you make mistakes, stay out too long and be caught in a downpour, step on a poisonous creature and be stung or bitten?

Aye, that's part of my confusion. I can understand somebody who stayed in a city all their life and thus wouldn't know that special humming sound of a hornet or other creature, or the way the air feels right before a strong storm, but people who grew up outdoors? Unless it falls into the jurisdiction of "autopilot" like a lot of allistic functions, because elsewise it seems a bit dangerous to be that disconnected from your location.

 

[Dryope]

Just updating....I figured this out. This is what I'm talking about. I think it gets talked about a lot, but I just had to get to it in my own way (like everything). I just feel more.

A Radical New Autism Theory - The Daily Beast
https://seventhvoice.wordpress.com/...-in-fact-if-anything-they-empathize-too-much/
'People with Asperger’s syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

'This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the “intense world” theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.

'“I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it.”

'“There are those who say autistic people don’t feel enough,” says Kamila Markram. “We’re saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much.”'

My problems with most things appear to be processing issues: when I am calm -- which takes a lot of work -- I can handle social situations fine. But when the stress creeps up -- from sensory input, digestive problems (a lot of issues here for me), holding a conversation with more than one person, having too many ideas rapidly forming in my mind -- I just lose it and I start to shut down. I have no idea I'm shutting down until it's progressed pretty far, but the worst it's gotten for me is having sight/hearing weirdness (colors too bright, sounds too loud or muffled), losing my voice, and stimming in a room alone for a few hours. Of course, in the meantime, I can barely hold a conversation, which is tricky at work. I haven't tried writing stuff down in these situations -- maybe I should. That would be a lot easier, but socially it would be unpleasant.

 

[Beverly]

Dryope Too much is the right answer, I think. I know it is for me. I am an empath and, when I was younger, before I learned to shield, a room with ten people in it was an emotional cacophony for me. It was confusing and frightening. Thankfully my grandmother was also an empath, among other things, and she taught me to shield as young as possible. Still I feel it all, but shielding prevents overload and dulls it enough that I don't feel I have to react to it.

 

[Dryope]

I'm an empath, too, although I don't use that term. Seeing my close friends and family after a long time apart accelerates shutdown for me -- I can't deal with their emotions. Everything is swirling in my mind. I wish we could just shake hands and talk about politics or something. I like them very much but...I lose my ability to speak around day 3 of a visit like that. And then they just get freaked out or wonder why I'm so grumpy. I can't be emotionally available for them.

How do you shield from that? I read about therapists having a sort of Venn Diagram of their feelings and the client's, and only allowing a small overlap between them, so they don't get sucked into their drama. I can do it with strangers by shutting myself off -- for a little while -- but not very well. Is it something that can be explained or is it more complex?

 

[Beverly]

I use a visualization technique. For me the energy of living things is very real, invisible but tangible to me. I can use my own energy, if that's all there is (I refuse to pull from other people, I'm not an "energy vampire.") or I can pull form nature, trees, thunderstorms, shrubs and such.

I visualize a tentacle or power conduit drawing power form the tree or whatever to myself, then I visualize shaping that energy into a bubble surrounding myself. That bubble doesn't stop what I sense, it slows and softens it. If I have to I visualize more energy being formed into a block wall, then it does stop everything. I call the wall a construct shield. With that no emotion in or out but I can still function - a working shutdown basically but, one that is intentional and does not cause any anxiety on my part.

I don't need the construct often, usually the bubble is fine and, I do prefer being aware of who is near me I just don't want to be overwhelmed by all of them. Once you get used to using your shields, you can visualize opening tiny pathways or holes for just one person's feeling to come in full force, if you want or need to do that.

If you want to do a bit of research on the modern incarnation of energy manipulation, it's being called Psionics now and, all of the psychic "tele -" this or that abilities have been lumped into it but, doing psi balls is not bad practice for shielding - that's all a bubble shield is, a psi ball you made into a bubble you could fit inside of using energy from a tree or something rather than your own energy and, as I said, you can use your own energy if that's all there is available but, using a tree or something helps you not tire and feel drained so quickly.

 

[Dryope]

Thanks very much. That's very similar to what therapists are trained to do, at least in the second paragraph.

I appreciate your sharing this -- I'll certainly benefit from it, and hopefully others will as well.

 

[Mia]

Am I completely off base? Does anyone else feel this, too? This seems like the core of who I am and what I recognize in other people on the spectrum.

I absolutely feel this much of the time, its debilitating really. It was developed and worked on growing up as a child, a sort of defense mechanism for living and protecting myself and understanding other people. A way to understand, that almost seems like a extrasensory ability, that few people I've ever met have. But it seems that I've now encountered someone else with that same ability.

Many of the people in my family were volatile, and in order to figure things out before they actually began their drama, I could walk into a room and know within a few minutes implicitly where everyone was emotionally(except for people who close themselves off). I would observe them, as if I was watching a play, who said this, who did this, their gestures, movements, facial expressions. It gave me the ability to predict 'situations' very quickly, to protect myself, or be able to respond in a way that calmed the situation down.

It's aided me a good deal in life, being able to figure out (in a basic way) what people are thinking or will do before they actually do it. In the past I've become confused if they don't say or act on what I understood; that they cover up, or lie about, but its more about them being unaware of their own signals, a kind of disconnect within themselves. I can only do this with visual and auditory clues, and not with text or writing so much, although I can sometimes get a sense of something about a person in the way that they write, words that they choose and indications in their writing.

The fact is, I don't really like having the ability to do this. It serves me sometimes with the ability to predict outcomes. It takes a lot of energy that I would rather use for myself. So, like you Dryope I find it difficult to turn these things 'off.' Much of the time I simply stay away from situations where this might happen and I have a tendency to ignore most of what's going on around me to avoid sensory overload, but always keep an eye or ear on whatever might come too close, to protect myself.

 

[Dryope]

Mia it sounds like we could both learn a lot from Beverly. I just practiced her technique in a social situation and found it very helpful. I didn't have anything living around me, but I visualized the earth under the floor supporting me and shielding me, and that apparently triggered some sort of energy / neurotransmitter response that boosted my mood and helped me focus on the conversation without getting overwhelmed.

 

[Mia]

I've attempted this many times Dryope. It really does not work for me, the 'bubble' or the armour of one sort or another. Visualizing floating in water has helped but it takes me quite a while to get to that point. I wish there was something in 'between' that would help me to become calm like yoga and muting of things around me. It's much more about my very active fight and flight response, that has been the problem. I'm glad that its helped you. Now if I can only find something that might do it for me. My problem is that the visualization is in no way real or solid for me, not strong enough to blot all of the extraneous stuff out. It needs to be something like a barrier made of steel.

 

[Dryope]

Well, I wish you luck. I still ended up stimming during the conversation, though (phone call). I think this is a tough skill to learn, but it may not be for everyone.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Mia, I could've written your post almost exactly...the other posters' descriptions were close to my experience, but yours really nails it for me.

It was developed and worked on growing up as a child, a sort of defense mechanism for living and protecting myself and understanding other people.

I'm not sure how much of mine is ingrained (due to AS) and how much is learned (due to dysfunctional family), but yes--I had to learn to read people so I could protect myself and understand what people wanted. Have you ever seen the TV series Lie to Me? It's on Amazon Prime now...the people on that show who could "read" people the best were the ones who grew up in difficult childhood circumstances (mentally ill mother, or abusive father).

It gave me the ability to predict 'situations' very quickly, to protect myself, or be able to respond in a way that calmed the situation down.

I'm an intuitive thinker anyway, so this process comes naturally for me--look ahead to all the possibilities of what could happen, and be ready for any of them, and over time, get better at knowing which ones are most likely to come about.

It's aided me a good deal in life, being able to figure out what people are thinking or will do before they actually do it. In the past I've become confused if they don't say or act on what I understood; that they cover up, or lie about, but its more about them being unaware of their own signals, a kind of disconnect within themselves.

And yes, I've experienced this soooo much. What I "see" in people and what they think about themselves is sometimes very disconnected, even though I know what I saw. Have you ever heard of the Johari Window? Think of a square, then divide it into 4 quarters. The top half is what other people see of you. The left column is what you see of yourself. So one quarter is seen by both you and other people (public), one quarter is seen only by you (private), one quarter is seen only by others (blind spot), and one quarter is hidden from everyone including you (unconscious). Different people have the dividing lines in different places.

It serves me sometimes with the ability to predict outcomes. It takes a lot of energy that I would rather use for myself. So, like you Dryope I find it difficult to turn these things 'off.' Much of the time I simply stay away from situations where this might happen and I have a tendency to ignore most of what's going on around me to avoid sensory overload

My T lately has been trying to point out when I do this and help me to see that it's actually not a very healthy way of relating with people. It's much healthier to simply be "present" to the person, not predicting what they're about to say, but truly listening and experiencing them "in the moment." I find this is very, very difficult, though. Partly, the problem is that what I expect and want out of an interaction is so different than what others want, that if I'm not "reading" them, I'll miss them and hurt their feelings. And part of the reason is that I'm still deeply involved with my dysfunctional family, so I still need these predictive skills on a very regular basis just to get along with them.

My problem is that the visualization is in no way real or solid for me

Have you tried a more verbal approach? I'm more of a visual thinker, but sometimes I'm too distracted with "managing" all the input to be able to visualize, so having a "mantra" handy can help a lot. Just have a little saying that you put on repeat in your head, even if it's just a word. Some types I've used recently, "just be present", "connection", "space", "be myself", "keep my space", "just observe"...that kind of thing. It helps keep me focused on the singular goal I want to achieve in that interaction, whether it's a session with my T or a difficult conversation with a family member or a 2-day business trip with my mom.

 

[Mia]

Have you tried a more verbal approach? I'm more of a visual thinker, but sometimes I'm too distracted with "managing" all the input to be able to visualize, so having a "mantra" handy can help a lot. Just have a little saying that you put on repeat in your head, even if it's just a word. Some types I've used recently, "just be present", "connection", "space", "be myself", "keep my space", "just observe"...that kind of thing. It helps keep me focused on the singular goal I want to achieve in that interaction, whether it's a session with my T or a difficult conversation with a family member or a 2-day business trip with my mom.

My Therapist has done the same as well. One of the 'mantras' that I use is "Be in the now" and then I touch something solid like a table made of wood. Another is 'real.' It does help a little, my T has told me that I live too much in my head and not in the now. She's probably right, but she has mentioned that individuals who spend a lot of time alone tend to do this normally. It didn't used to be that way, but I have fewer distractions than I used to. Which in one way is good, but I've become in another way too insular. I think that regular life and the things you have to do daily, regularly, distract from who a person is, so that they don't have to think so much.

Oh and the 'Lie to me' television program, I've never seen it. Although I did see one in the eighties that had some sort of object or thing that celebrities would talk about, and tell you what it was for and you had to guess who was telling the truth. I'd seen it a few times and I never missed. I could consistently tell who was making things up. Funny that the scapegoats or black sheep of dysfunctional families are know as truth-tellers. They should be known as both truth tellers and seekers.

We should hire ourselves out as human polygraphs.