Core Difference with NTs: I Care More

[Dryope]

Is it controversial to say this? But I care deeply about things. About everything I do.

NTs don't seem to. I don't actually know if they care or not, but things just...seem less important to them.

Perhaps it's just me misreading them? Or perhaps they are masking their true feelings?

I know people with BPD also care a lot about little things. I think a lot of female aspies have BPD tendencies.

But it's more than that. It's not just emotion dysregulation. It's also perfectionism and being detail-oriented.

I want to understand what I don't understand, and I will work hard to break it apart, understand the pieces, and then examine the whole. I will spend time puzzling it out. And I put my emotions into that. I'd rather analyze an argument than go have "fun." I am argumentative to understand, not to seem superior.

I care about everything I do. I'm not a saint: I'm passionate. I cut up an onion and I think about the cruelty to that onion, dying at last. I had metaphysical thoughts about the universe and infinite time and my place in the world all the time as a young child, around the time I started reading. I make connections, I ask questions. My brain works like that automatically. I sometimes wish it didn't.

Most important, I see everything on multiple levels. I see myself refracted, at all times, one side examining another. Unless it's a question of justice, I always have multiple viewpoints, multiple angles. The rules of society contradict, and a lot is contingent on the rules. How can I only see things one way?

I think it's this that sets us apart from NTs. Not that they don't do these things; but in how they and we approach life. There is...some key difference connected here. I don't see, I probe; I don't act, I engage emotionally.

Am I completely off base? Does anyone else feel this, too? This seems like the core of who I am and what I recognize in other people on the spectrum. But one part of me says I'm just spinning it all up in my head and misunderstanding the real picture.

 

[Harrison]

I used to, age has brought with it the understanding that everything has a place on the planet. I still get passionate about the planet, just not so much about saving her as she has survived a lot worse than we are doing. There was a time when I thought humans were worth saving, now I think they are headed for a well earned extinction.

I do remember being 'told off' in no uncertain terms, by a vegetarian, for eating meat. I pointed out that I preferred my food to be dead, unlike the salad he was stuffing into his mouth. I then went into detail on how I could hear his food screaming and it was putting me off

 

[Wireless]

I think you're right. Aspies do seem to feel more deeply than NTs.
Even though I'm NT, I couldn't say how we NTs do feel or how deeply. The only advantage of this is perhaps we don't tend to suffer anxiety and depression as badly, although they are still common among the NT population.

 

[Dryope]

That's interesting to hear from an NT perspective. I thought my statement would be offensive (but I'm glad it's not).

I don't just mean I care more emotionally. I also care more intellectually. It's curiosity and a desire to understand the process and all its parts.

Sorry, and a tendency to drone on on a single topic.

 

[Wireless]

I suppose that most NTs are instinctively preoccupied with socializing and bonding, rather than intellectual curiosity.We're just not as driven to wanting to understand how processes work as we are to being with other people, although we may have a passing interest in those things. This isn't taking into account the creative NTs who excel in the fields of science and art. I agree with Dr Hans Aspeger's statement: "for science and art to succeed a little bit autism is needed". I've probably misquoted him.

If Aspies tend to drone on about a single subject, then it's only fair to point out that NTs drone on too about weather, holidays and families. I think both groups bore each other

 

[wanderer03]

Is it controversial to say this? But I care deeply about things. About everything I do.

NTs don't seem to. I don't actually know if they care or not, but things just...seem less important to them.

Perhaps it's just me misreading them? Or perhaps they are masking their true feelings?

I know people with BPD also care a lot about little things. I think a lot of female aspies have BPD tendencies.

But it's more than that. It's not just emotion dysregulation. It's also perfectionism and being detail-oriented.

I want to understand what I don't understand, and I will work hard to break it apart, understand the pieces, and then examine the whole. I will spend time puzzling it out. And I put my emotions into that. I'd rather analyze an argument than go have "fun." I am argumentative to understand, not to seem superior.

I care about everything I do. I'm not a saint: I'm passionate. I cut up an onion and I think about the cruelty to that onion, dying at last. I had metaphysical thoughts about the universe and infinite time and my place in the world all the time as a young child, around the time I started reading. I make connections, I ask questions. My brain works like that automatically. I sometimes wish it didn't.

Most important, I see everything on multiple levels. I see myself refracted, at all times, one side examining another. Unless it's a question of justice, I always have multiple viewpoints, multiple angles. The rules of society contradict, and a lot is contingent on the rules. How can I only see things one way?

I think it's this that sets us apart from NTs. Not that they don't do these things; but in how they and we approach life. There is...some key difference connected here. I don't see, I probe; I don't act, I engage emotionally.

Am I completely off base? Does anyone else feel this, too? This seems like the core of who I am and what I recognize in other people on the spectrum. But one part of me says I'm just spinning it all up in my head and misunderstanding the real picture.

I've been left with that same impression. NTs live in a world of the nauseatingly superficial. Sometimes I think I'd rather be stabbed in the eye with a red hot poker than listen to the inane, vapid discussions that they have.

 

[NTgirl4276]

I suppose that most NTs are instinctively preoccupied with socializing and bonding, rather than intellectual curiosity.We're just not as driven to wanting to understand how processes work as we are to being with other people, although we may have a passing interest in those things.

NTs live in a world of the nauseatingly superficial. Sometimes I think I'd rather be stabbed in the eye with a red hot poker than listen to the inane, vapid discussions that they have.

I'm hesitant to affirm some of these generalizations. While, in my short time here, I've grown increasingly appreciative of how thoughtful, introspective, and self-reflexive many Aspies are, I hesitate to say that NTs all care/feel/wonder less and/or are superficial humans. I'm surrounded, every day, by NTs who chase down impulses, questions, and feelings like the ones described above (then again, I have chosen to keep a very particular sort of company, and perhaps they have spectrum traits?).

regardless, though we may all care about different things and to different degrees, I hope we don't always assign hierarchical value to those differences and, by extension, to the humans that demonstrate them.

one of my favorite things about sharing ideas and experiences with this community has been an increased awareness of how complex human beings are, beneath the apparent surface. I think many NTs are likewise complex, as we too often don various masks. I don't share my deepest questions, desires, doubts, fears, etc. with everyone, and I would hate to think that just because I don't expose those parts of myself to the world, I might be dismissed as superficial.

 

[Progster]

No, it's not a contradiction. I think that aspies often care very deeply about things, especially when they make it their special interest. But I also agree with NTgirl that NTs can be very caring and compassionate too. For me it is wrong to say that aspies can't care deeply about things, or can't feel empathy, a stereotype which unfortunately I often hear in the media. That is a contradiction.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

My new job experience is driving home, hard, the realization that the skills that got me the job won't be allowed on the job, because there is more value in compliance and conformity than in taking deadlines seriously and introducing more effective methods of delivering to them. I care passionately about new methods and techniques. Even the ones I can use for myself I hide from managers because using them seems to be read as implicit criticism (or the more acceptable ignorance of "how it's done").

"Nauseating" is exactly the description this is having on me.

Interestingly, when I've remembered that I was presumably hired to actually use skills, and I bring this up, I seem to get earnest agreement. Fifteen minutes later, the conversation always winds back to "reputation"--that the people who enforce conformity have great reputations and everyone likes working with them.

I don't dislike these people. I dislike being told not to use methods that work that I was explicitly screened for.

Recommencing Iron Mask imposition now. I need that paycheck that I don't think I earn. Maybe I am being paid to care about how people feel. That works, as long as I don't care how I feel. Why should the fact that I care so much cost me a good living--which I also care about?

Good thing they have places to retreat to when I get overwhelmed.

 

[Slithytoves]

I think you're right. Aspies do seem to feel more deeply than NTs.
Even though I'm NT, I couldn't say how we NTs do feel or how deeply. The only advantage of this is perhaps we don't tend to suffer anxiety and depression as badly, although they are still common among the NT population.

AC may encourage confirmation bias on this question, since it's very unusual that a forum community is stable enough for such a large group of people to share so openly/deeply about their thoughts and feelings.

I think you're onto something with your mention of anxiety and depression. Both conditions entail a tendency to ruminate, for better and for worse, and make sufferers more emotionally sensitive. But since anxiety and depression are comorbid to Asperger's, not inherent to it, Aspies can't claim anything unique for related effects.

Thinking about it more, I actually find the original question a little unclear. Are we suggesting that Aspies may be deeper feelers and thinkers because of our neurology, or because of the circumstances it creates? You said, "...most NTs are instinctively preoccupied with socializing and bonding, rather than intellectual curiosity," and I think that's important here. The question is, would many NTs naturally do a lot more reflecting, puzzling and probing if they didn't have as much socialization? I would say yes, from my experience of less social/more isolated NT individuals. If we Aspies were better integrated socially, our neurology may not make as much of a difference as we might think.

I'm hesitant to affirm some of these generalizations. While, in my short time here, I've grown increasingly appreciative of how thoughtful, introspective, and self-reflexive many Aspies are, I hesitate to say that NTs all care/feel/wonder less and/or are superficial humans. I'm surrounded, every day, by NTs who chase down impulses, questions, and feelings like the ones described above (then again, I have chosen to keep a very particular sort of company, and perhaps they have spectrum traits?).

Agreed. And we're talking about things that really can't be quantified anyway. How much a person thinks or feels is subjective and we can't really know other people's internal experience.

How we see others has a lot to do with exposure, like you said. You work in academia, and your interests and intelligence are such that you would be exposed/drawn to very different types of people than, say, the average stay-at-home soccer mom. (I bet you never thought you'd appear in the same sentence with "soccer mom"! )

There's a tendency in all minority groups to get a bit hierarchical about our perceived strengths. It's partly defensive, I'm sure. The corresponding dominant majority does it, too, as part of Privilege. Where differences exist, humans rate and rank. You have to be pretty mindful not to.

I don't share my deepest questions, desires, doubts, fears, etc. with everyone, and I would hate to think that just because I don't expose those parts of myself to the world, I might be dismissed as superficial.

Great point. The funny thing is, we Aspies usually don't either. AC is a very rare environment for us. Something to consider is that while NTs may look shallow to Aspies in certain ways, I'm sure Aspies look equally one-dimensional to NTs in others. After all, we're known to be rigid, monotone and mechanical based on our presentation. It wasn't until recently that any literature on Asperger's gave us any credit for thinking and feeling much at all, beyond our circumscribed interests and sensitivity to criticism.

This is a terrific thread, Dryope. It really makes me think.

 

[Beverly]

I think it is more of a sensory issue in that we feel care and concern more deeply than they do and, many of us are unable to temper or tun off our internal reaction to emotions even if we cannot or choose not to express those emotions.

NTs are better at knowing what is relevant to a given situation or conversation and, may feel as we do but, do not express such feelings so strongly. We tend to express them as vehemently and strongly as we feel them. NTs, I think temper their expression of emotions more.

I know I have learned, over the years, not to express everything I might be feeling and, sometimes to hide my feelings and expressions entirely.

 

[Wireless]

I'm not a very bright person so every job I've had has been minimum wage. Therefore the jobs haven't been the most interesting and so people tend to chat a lot. This has biased my view. I didn't mean to imply that NTs are uncaring as such.
Edit: I'm quite introverted and so is my family, so most people seem very social to me.

Edit Edit: I think that I am a little bit more reflective than some NTs because of my introversion.

 

[NTgirl4276]

I think there are also ways in which "socializing" and "chit chat" can be more complex than they appear. for example, one of my friends has struggled with body dysmorphia and eating disorders for a number of years. often, when we talk, we might end up in a discussion about various celebrities. while this may CERTAINLY be dismissed as frivolous or inane by the casual observer, he/she is likely unaware of my friend's struggles and can't possibly pick up on the emotional, psychological, and relational shorthand that is being used in that communication interaction. in other words, in exchanging seemingly superficial banter about celebrities and their latest fashions, scandals, etc. (and paying particular attention to how she responds or remarks about a celebrity's outfit, body, face, whatever), I'm often gauging my friend's level of self-adequacy or self-consciousness on that particular day. and she is leaving little verbal and non-verbal clues for me to pick up on. in that strange and seemingly superficial conversation, I'm gauging whether or not she's in the midst of or about to slip into some of her more dangerous eating/self-condemnation/self-mutilation episodes.

this is just one example. this is not to say, of course, that all "chit chat" is meaningful. but some of it can be, despite appearances.

 

[Wireless]

I also sometimes find casual chit chat a helpful distraction from the more serious and sad aspects of the world. It's too sad to dwell upon all the bad things happening in the world, which is what my mind does if I spend too much time alone.
I don't know if this is the same for other people.

 

[Judge]

Yes. It's made me wonder about that, and quite recently. Again having another arduous conversation with my cousin about what it is to be on the spectrum of autism, and this was the response I got. It sounds almost like my autism is all about her- not me. That my concerns and understanding of autism have been completely marginalized. I'm seriously considering cutting off all future contact with my cousin.

Her precise words:

"Each person needs to decide for themselves the value of deciding whether they fit into either mold. Like we discussed with the question of genetic testing for a particular cancer gene...what will I do with the information? How will I let it affect my life and will I allow the outcome, label, diagnosis, perception to define who I am? I think that our ability to move past any of the perceived difficulties in our lives are simple part of the lessons we chose to work on in this incarnation on earth. I can only believe that what we feel are the really tough lessons seemed like a good idea on the Otherside.

My choice at this time is to just try and be who I am according to what resonates to me as my truth and try not to allow the influences, opinions and labels of others to sway me. So much easier to aspire to than to practice on so many occasions. I think the sign that we have learned all we can in this lifetime is when we take our final breath."

 

[DogwoodTree]

this was the response I got.

How old is this cousin? She sounds like a teenager, or maybe she's listened to a few too many stereotypical Miss America speeches (although admittedly, a lot of those ladies are actually incredibly bright and insightful).

Me personally, that just sounds like a lot of mainstream bs, sorry...someone thinking they're thinking deeply, but haven't really engaged in the ideas enough to have their own ideas. And that's okay--you gotta start somewhere. But when in a conversation with someone like that, you have to realize they really have no original ideas to contribute yet. Maybe someday, especially if life throws them a curve ball or two.

I really think it comes down to a difference between the experiences faced by each person and how they coped, more so than their inherent wiring.

People with no significant problems in life never have to challenge their ideas about life. Aspies by nature of our inherent differences are challenged, and many NTs are challenged in other ways, and through those experiences, develop very deep and conscientious awareness of reality and ideas and life and struggle. But the curve ball itself doesn't guarantee this outcome--many people live through these challenges without ever really being changed by them, without growing because of them...both aspie and NT.

I think Wireless made a good point...that there are different areas of priority for aspies vs NT. It's like being a cross-cultural transplant, and you just have different priorities than the people around you. A traditional Japanese businessman is going to have very different priorities than his Wall Street counterparts. Sometimes these differences might amuse someone in either group, or the differences might be repulsive. Most of the time, they're not really going to understand each other unless they try to understand the other's life paradigm. But we aspies are so relatively rare...and relatively new to having the recognition and freedom to explore the world through our own eyes instead of working so hard to conform...that the insights on the differences, well, that data just isn't really available yet. Getting there, but we don't have the full picture yet.

Gonna stop rambling now...

 

[Judge]

How old is this cousin? She sounds like a teenager, or maybe she's listened to a few too many stereotypical Miss America speeches (although admittedly, a lot of those ladies are actually incredibly bright and insightful).

She's in her late 50s. My cousin has been influenced by one too many self-help gurus. She's trying to recover from being in an abusive marriage, but it's beginning to appear what has happened is that she's begun treating me like her husband treated her. Old psychological dynamic. The victim becomes an abuser. Her idea of recovery is to make everything about her.

Instead of being the least bit compassionate or supportive about my autism, she's chosen to use it as just another means to aggrandize her own well being. I've tried very hard to explain ASD, and it appears her only continued reaction is to think this is all a form of pseudoscience. As if I'm simply looking for attention.

She's so fearful and paranoid over toxic personalities...yet unable to see that she herself is becoming one. I'm rapidly approaching the point where I can't be around her at all.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Instead of being the least bit compassionate or supportive about my autism, she's chosen to use it as just another means to aggrandize her own well being.

Oh, this sounds soooo much like a particular family member of my own. Good description.

It's like...the only way she can feel better about herself, is to make a point of how well she "has it all together". It's kinda the opposite of a victim mentality, but not really. It does start to look like a perpetrator mindset...having to control the relationship and everyone's impression of herself...in order to avoid being victimized again. Which interferes with her ability to truly empathize with anyone else's legitimate struggles.

 

[Judge]

The worst thing I did was to tell my cousin I thought I was on the spectrum. Since then our relationship has progressively gone downhill. Reinforces my intent to only mention it on a need-to-know basis only.

And to think I was so sure she'd be understanding about it all.

 

[DogwoodTree]

The worst thing I did was to tell my cousin I thought I was on the spectrum. Since then our relationship has progressively gone downhill

This reinforces for me my decision not to tell this particular person in my family. Thx for the insight. Sorry it's been so tough for you.