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Childhood Emotional Neglect and Autism

Cassandra65

Cassandra65

Member
Dear friends
I've been having counseling for a while now, and my counselor recently introduced me to CEN (Childhood emotional neglect). There is a simple questionnaire you can do to see if you're suffering from CEN here... Emotional Neglect Questionnaire | Dr. Jonice Webb
I was shocked by how many of the CEN questions referred to feelings/thoughts/behaviours that I'd previously labelled 'ND' traits.

There have been a few discussions about potential genetic components linked with being ND, personally I've been wondering if there may be a nurture aspect to it too. I worked in cancer research for a long time and I know that no two cancers are the same as almost they all of them have been through on average ten changes to go from a perfectly normal cell to an aggressive metastatic cell; some of these changes are inherited, some are acquired during life; and I wonder if the same applies to ND. Particularly since it seems to me that no two NDs are the same - we have similarities, but I see ND as a field - we're all standing in it somewhere but all in our own unique positions, and some of us are further away from those on the opposite corner of the field than we are from some 'normies'.
My counselor told me recently that it's very common for ND traits to become worse with age, and for ND people to struggle increasingly as they get older. This suggests to me that 'nurture'/experience may be an inducing/enhancing factor.

I'm very interested to see if anyone else here identifies with any CEN traits, or is it just me!?
Thank you for your time
 
Wouw.... just looked at the questions, if someone had told me those were ASD questions, I would have believed them - I could answer yes to the majority of them. - But because they are signs of CEN, doesn't mean they can't be of ASD too - like if someone has a headache it can have a lot of different reasons? But then again, growing up undiagnosed, without support or the wrong type of support, could be seen as kind of neglect... (i.e. childhood neglect is not having your needs met as a child)
 
Cassandra65 said:
My counselor told me recently that it's very common for ND traits to become worse with age, and for ND people to struggle increasingly as they get older.
Click to expand...

@Cassandra65

These threads demonstrate that the experiences with autism and aging are mixed. As you mentioned, everyone's experience with ASD is slightly different and so, it makes sense that our experience with aging differs as well.

www.autismforums.com

Does Autism get Worse as you Age?

As I got in to my 50s my autistic traits seemed to get worse, or more pronounced. Logic tells me that it’s probably just part of the process of getting older. Less energy and less inclination to keep holding up the mask, a little less caring of what others think, grumpy old man syndrome, etc...
www.autismforums.com www.autismforums.com

www.autismforums.com

Asperger's and Aging

I am curious as to others’ opinions concerning Asperger’s and aging in relationship to it getting worse or improving. I have/had (we’ve not spoken in a while) a friend that I’ve known almost fifty years, who’s obviously on the spectrum, which seems to have gotten worse as far as the...
www.autismforums.com www.autismforums.com
 
I scored 22 out of 22 as Yes.

The hard part is admitting to myself that my parents are/were neglectful. I love them, I think. But I feel like if I wanted to help myself I should blow the doors off the neglect thing.

Have brought it up and the answer is usually "but it's all in the past" or "don't hold a grudge." But the damage is as real as if they had cut off my right hand.
 
That questionnaire is a sales pitch, not a measurement instrument.

The real thing has to have a way to identify false positives, and (among other things) they have to mix yes and no answers for the questions that correlate with whatever they're looking for.

The therapist might be ok anyway, but I wouldn't buy the book myself.
 
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I couldn't find anything on the validity of that questionnaire. As @Hypnalis said, questionnaire design is an entire field of research, and tests have to be able pin down a particular characteristic from others.

That questionnaire reminds me of YouTube videos about "50 signs that you have XYZ." It appears to be overly broad and designed to get Yes answers.

There are several badly phrased questions and some red flag questions that will get a Yes from almost every single human being:

5. Feel you have not met your potential in life ?
7. Secretly feel that you may be a fraud ?
10. Judge yourself more harshly than you judge others ?
11. Compare yourself to others and often find yourself sadly lacking?
12. Find it easier to love animals than people ?
15. Have trouble identifying your strengths and weaknesses?
18. Have trouble calming yourself ?
19. Feel there’s something holding you back from being present in the moment?
20. At times feel empty inside ?
22. Struggle with self-discipline ?

That's almost half the questions.

And here are questions that every single teen would say yes to:

1. Sometimes feel like you don’t belong when with your family or friends ?
2. Pride yourself on not relying upon others ?
3. Have difficulty asking for help ?
4. Have friends or family who complain that you are aloof or distant ?
8. Tend to feel uncomfortable in social situations ?
9. Often feel disappointed with, or angry at, yourself ?

I'm not saying that childhood emotional neglect is not real. I'm saying that the questionnaire is worthless. I can't judge the intentions of the Dr. Webb, but when promotion (money) is involved, I'm on the cynical side.
 
Cassandra65 said:
Dear friends
I've been having counseling for a while now, and my counselor recently introduced me to CEN (Childhood emotional neglect). There is a simple questionnaire you can do to see if you're suffering from CEN here... Emotional Neglect Questionnaire | Dr. Jonice Webb
I was shocked by how many of the CEN questions referred to feelings/thoughts/behaviours that I'd previously labelled 'ND' traits.

There have been a few discussions about potential genetic components linked with being ND, personally I've been wondering if there may be a nurture aspect to it too. I worked in cancer research for a long time and I know that no two cancers are the same as almost they all of them have been through on average ten changes to go from a perfectly normal cell to an aggressive metastatic cell; some of these changes are inherited, some are acquired during life; and I wonder if the same applies to ND. Particularly since it seems to me that no two NDs are the same - we have similarities, but I see ND as a field - we're all standing in it somewhere but all in our own unique positions, and some of us are further away from those on the opposite corner of the field than we are from some 'normies'.
My counselor told me recently that it's very common for ND traits to become worse with age, and for ND people to struggle increasingly as they get older. This suggests to me that 'nurture'/experience may be an inducing/enhancing factor.

I'm very interested to see if anyone else here identifies with any CEN traits, or is it just me!?
Thank you for your time
Click to expand...
As others have mentioned, this appears like an ASD questionnaire. We've already moved past this idea that parental emotional neglect is the cause of ASD several decades ago. So, let's establish that.

ASD is one of many variants of so-called "neurodiversity". Many people with an ASD will likely score very high on this "childhood emotional neglect" questionnaire because they have an ASD, and NOT because they experienced childhood emotional neglect. The autistic brain will often process and internalize things differently than that of a neurotypical due to differences in the gross and micro-anatomy, the genetics/epigenetics, the neurotransmitter turnover, the conductive and connectivity differences. This has been all well-established in the literature that the primary psychological behavioral components of ASD are secondary to the neurodevelopment. There can be secondary behavioral components, more in the realm of psychiatric, that develop later due to life experiences.

Now, having said all that, did some of us grow up with dysfunctional, toxic, neglectful parents? Absolutely.

Let's be careful not to confuse the issue. I am not sure that folks with an ASD should be taking this test, perhaps scoring high, and then interpreting that they are who they are because of parental emotional neglect.
 
I don't need a questionnaire to tell me I may of suffered childhood emotional neglect as a ND person. I know I did. I've always known, in some way.
 
I would answer "yes" to most of those questions.

I WAS NOT emotionally neglected, and I am ASD. So was my father, my sister's boy, and my daughter.

It's genetic.

Also, just for fun - my "symptoms" seem worse now that I am old, but only because I don't have to constantly mask. My actual mental health is NOW much, much better.

Every question on the list relates ONLY to self-image. The probability that an ND individual will have self-image problems is sky high. There are no questions about personal history ("what did your mom do when you cried?").

This looks uber suspicious.
 
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Cassandra65 said:
Dear friends
I've been having counseling for a while now, and my counselor recently introduced me to CEN (Childhood emotional neglect). There is a simple questionnaire you can do to see if you're suffering from CEN here... Emotional Neglect Questionnaire | Dr. Jonice Webb
I was shocked by how many of the CEN questions referred to feelings/thoughts/behaviours that I'd previously labelled 'ND' traits.

There have been a few discussions about potential genetic components linked with being ND, personally I've been wondering if there may be a nurture aspect to it too. I worked in cancer research for a long time and I know that no two cancers are the same as almost they all of them have been through on average ten changes to go from a perfectly normal cell to an aggressive metastatic cell; some of these changes are inherited, some are acquired during life; and I wonder if the same applies to ND. Particularly since it seems to me that no two NDs are the same - we have similarities, but I see ND as a field - we're all standing in it somewhere but all in our own unique positions, and some of us are further away from those on the opposite corner of the field than we are from some 'normies'.
My counselor told me recently that it's very common for ND traits to become worse with age, and for ND people to struggle increasingly as they get older. This suggests to me that 'nurture'/experience may be an inducing/enhancing factor.

I'm very interested to see if anyone else here identifies with any CEN traits, or is it just me!?
Thank you for your time
Click to expand...

Cassandra65 said:
Dear friends
I've been having counseling for a while now, and my counselor recently introduced me to CEN (Childhood emotional neglect). There is a simple questionnaire you can do to see if you're suffering from CEN here... Emotional Neglect Questionnaire | Dr. Jonice Webb
I was shocked by how many of the CEN questions referred to feelings/thoughts/behaviours that I'd previously labelled 'ND' traits.

There have been a few discussions about potential genetic components linked with being ND, personally I've been wondering if there may be a nurture aspect to it too. I worked in cancer research for a long time and I know that no two cancers are the same as almost they all of them have been through on average ten changes to go from a perfectly normal cell to an aggressive metastatic cell; some of these changes are inherited, some are acquired during life; and I wonder if the same applies to ND. Particularly since it seems to me that no two NDs are the same - we have similarities, but I see ND as a field - we're all standing in it somewhere but all in our own unique positions, and some of us are further away from those on the opposite corner of the field than we are from some 'normies'.
My counselor told me recently that it's very common for ND traits to become worse with age, and for ND people to struggle increasingly as they get older. This suggests to me that 'nurture'/experience may be an inducing/enhancing factor.

I'm very interested to see if anyone else here identifies with any CEN traits, or is it just me!?
Thank you for your time
Click to expand...
Of course I do but it has taken learning I’m ND to really understand the situation. My mother was ND probably more than me and my dad had his own problems. They were good people who did the best they could with what they had. Emotional neglect was something I dealt with all the time without understanding it. It compounded the other difficulties I had. I had no where to turn for support. I didn’t understand the limitations both my parents had. Now that I’m ND I have a much clearer idea why the emotional neglect occurred. I see the other ways my parents showed love for what they were. Did emotional neglect hamper my life? It sure did but I see much clearer now.
 
I happily left, and had very little contact with my parents for many different reasons. I had to rely on myself at a very early age to support myself. Sorry, those questions seem rather lame to me. Emotional neglect can be extreme or just border on neglect. It's difficult for me to process the neglect l suffered, even at my age now. I had complete strangers come up and tell me my father treated me horribly. The biggest problem l have is trusting people. I pretty much assume they will let me down, so l am guarded in my approach in relationships. I never am fully present in any romantic relationship,only to protect myself. l am always on the outside looking in at my "perceived relationship". It feels like a temporary bubble that can pop at anytime. I am always waiting for my partner to let me down so l can say, "see, l knew that would happen." To me, this is a result of emotional neglect during my childhood. In fact, l also walk around thinking everyone has emotional wounds to some extent, so it becomes in my mind, how wounded are you, do you suffer more than l do? Has it affected your approach to life in a good way or a bad way? Then l can judge how you will treat me.
 
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Neonatal RRT said:
As others have mentioned, this appears like an ASD questionnaire. We've already moved past this idea that parental emotional neglect is the cause of ASD several decades ago. So, let's establish that.

ASD is one of many variants of so-called "neurodiversity". Many people with an ASD will likely score very high on this "childhood emotional neglect" questionnaire because they have an ASD, and NOT because they experienced childhood emotional neglect. The autistic brain will often process and internalize things differently than that of a neurotypical due to differences in the gross and micro-anatomy, the genetics/epigenetics, the neurotransmitter turnover, the conductive and connectivity differences. This has been all well-established in the literature that the primary psychological behavioral components of ASD are secondary to the neurodevelopment. There can be secondary behavioral components, more in the realm of psychiatric, that develop later due to life experiences.

Now, having said all that, did some of us grow up with dysfunctional, toxic, neglectful parents? Absolutely.

Let's be careful not to confuse the issue. I am not sure that folks with an ASD should be taking this test, perhaps scoring high, and then interpreting that they are who they are because of parental emotional neglect.
Click to expand...
I wasn't suggesting/expecting people to do the questionnaire as a way of determining the quality of the parenting they received; I just found it very interesting and pertinent personally and wondered if it resonated with anyone else here
 
Cassandra65 said:
I wasn't suggesting/expecting people to do the questionnaire as a way of determining the quality of the parenting they received; I just found it very interesting and pertinent personally and wondered if it resonated with anyone else here
Click to expand...
There is widely-used and validated measure of adverse childhood events that you might like to check out:

vetoviolence.cdc.gov

ACEs Infographic | Veto Violence

Childhood experiences—good and bad—shape our health, well-being, and livelihoods over a lifetime. This infographic uses data from the CDC-Kaiser Permanente Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) Study and recent findings to show how ACEs and prevention can affect people’s lives and society.
vetoviolence.cdc.gov vetoviolence.cdc.gov

www.cdc.gov

Preventing Adverse Childhood Experiences

Learn how you can help prevent adverse childhood experiences (ACEs).
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
 
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Cassandra65 said:
Dear friends
I've been having counseling for a while now, and my counselor recently introduced me to CEN (Childhood emotional neglect). There is a simple questionnaire you can do to see if you're suffering from CEN here... Emotional Neglect Questionnaire | Dr. Jonice Webb
I was shocked by how many of the CEN questions referred to feelings/thoughts/behaviours that I'd previously labelled 'ND' traits.

There have been a few discussions about potential genetic components linked with being ND, personally I've been wondering if there may be a nurture aspect to it too. I worked in cancer research for a long time and I know that no two cancers are the same as almost they all of them have been through on average ten changes to go from a perfectly normal cell to an aggressive metastatic cell; some of these changes are inherited, some are acquired during life; and I wonder if the same applies to ND. Particularly since it seems to me that no two NDs are the same - we have similarities, but I see ND as a field - we're all standing in it somewhere but all in our own unique positions, and some of us are further away from those on the opposite corner of the field than we are from some 'normies'.
My counselor told me recently that it's very common for ND traits to become worse with age, and for ND people to struggle increasingly as they get older. This suggests to me that 'nurture'/experience may be an inducing/enhancing factor.

I'm very interested to see if anyone else here identifies with any CEN traits, or is it just me!?
Thank you for your time
Click to expand...
I took the quiz and got 4 "no" answers.

Children sometimes experience emotional neglect, and if it is strong enough, you'd get mostly yes answers. However, children who experience emotional neglect don't all internalize it to the same extent. Two kids in the same environment; one is crushed by it, and the other sails through.

You'd also get mostly yes answers from an autistic person. That doesn't mean the two are interchangeable. Different causes can yield similar results. There are questions she didn't ask that would differentiate between the two cases. Things like stimming, inability to socialize like others, special interests, etc.

You could easily answer a majority of the questions "yes" and still have never experienced CEN. Just an introvert who loves animals and is a little bit lost at the moment.
 
I don't have to take a test to find out, I know I have been emotionally neglected. Regarding your nurture over nature argument, I agree there are both going on. Have you ever thought, and mind you this is a dreadful thought, that maybe some of us didn't get enough love and tenderness as infants/children because of our of-putting and funky autistic personalities? My mum kind of admitted that to me after I told her about my ASD diagnosis (big shock and guilt trip for her by the way). In any case, I believe this parameter shouldn't be overlooked in a nurture vs nature discussion or future scientific study.
 
I guess I was emotionally neglected by my peers as an adolescent. They literally didn't care about my feelings, and behaved like I didn't have any feelings. Yet I was always expected to respect THEIR feelings. It was all so contradictory that I got mixed messages and was confused.
It might be why I don't deal with double standards today.
 
Okay I'm going to be annoying now and answer each of the questions publicly, as I do find this rather interesting.

1. Sometimes feel like you don’t belong when with your family or friends ?
I don't think I resonate with this, unless people start talking about things they did when they were young that I missed out on, like getting drunk and staying out all night and partying and having fun. Otherwise, in general, yes I do feel like I belong in most groups, just because I'm on the spectrum doesn't make me any less of a human.

2. Pride yourself on not relying upon others ?
I rely emotionally on others, as in get myself involved and attached to people without realising.

3. Have difficulty asking for help ?
Depends what kind.

4. Have friends or family who complain that you are aloof or distant ?
No, people close to me have never really said that, as I've always been the opposite - too needy and verbally hyperactive.

5. Feel you have not met your potential in life ?
Well I've always wanted to marry a man I love and live with him in an apartment, and I have achieved that. But I still feel I could achieve more, like having children or at least a career.

6. Often just want to be left alone ?
No, I like being around people.

7. Secretly feel that you may be a fraud ?
Depends on what it means by "fraud". Sometimes I worry that I'm not the nice person I think I am and it panics me.

8. Tend to feel uncomfortable in social situations ?
I do if it's in public.

9. Often feel disappointed with, or angry at, yourself ?
Always.

10. Judge yourself more harshly than you judge others ?
Always.

11. Compare yourself to others and often find yourself sadly lacking?
Always. It's always been the trigger of my depression.

12. Find it easier to love animals than people ?
I like animals just as much as people, but I must admit that if I see a dead animal I really want to cry but if I saw a dead human it'd probably be more like a thrill-seeking experience (although I did get extremely upset when I saw my dead grandmother, but that was because she was family and I loved her obviously)

13. Often feel irritable or unhappy for no apparent reason?
I used to feel like this before I went on antidepressants. I'd just get this bad mood come over me for no reason and no longer want to smile and laugh.

14. Have trouble knowing what you’re feeling ?
No, I'm too aware of my emotions all the time.

15. Have trouble identifying your strengths and weaknesses?
Sometimes, but I seem to know my weaknesses more than my strengths

16. Sometimes feel like you’re on the outside looking in ?
Like I said in the first one, it depends on what they're talking about.

17. Believe you’re one of those people who could easily live as a hermit ?
I do often wish I could give up work and just be a housewife because that way you can control your environment more. I find employment too stressful, and I don't mean the social part of it (in fact that's the part I like most), but the way businesses are only about the money and often make stupid decisions because they care more about money than about people, and it can be stressful for employees.

18. Have trouble calming yourself ?
I can calm myself eventually once I've melted down (as in cried myself dry). It's better if other people can help me though by reassuring and empathising.

19. Feel there’s something holding you back from being present in the moment?
I have ADHD so I often spend my time wishing my life away and/or ruminating about the past a lot.

20. At times feel empty inside ?
I do when I feel everything is working out for other people and I'm obligated to feel happy for them.

21. Secretly feel there’s something wrong with you ?
Yes, and not the things I'm diagnosed with, but with a disorder that hasn't been founded/discovered yet.

22. Struggle with self-discipline ?
Yes. I do lack willpower, even if doing something is mentally damaging, the urge and temptation is extremely difficult to resist no matter what I do to distract myself away from whatever I'm addicted to. Thank God I never got into smoking, alcohol or street drugs.
 
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