your thoughts on my analogy of what its like being aspie

[Bolletje]

I'm really bad at this. I never know where a friendship is going so I don't even try to make friends and I just stop talking to people who are too overly dominant. I never stand up for myself and dominant is all I attract as well, so it is just too hard for me. I see the power struggle in my "friend group" all the time (there's like 4 of us). Honestly, I hardly consider them my friend group because I am constantly attacked for the way I am, or rather... The way I appear to them. Only one of them, my roommate/closest friend, knows that I have aspergers. I am literally her favorite person because that power struggle doesn't exist between us, which she has even stated.

I can relate. When I do like someone I never actively pursue a friendship because I'm afraid I've either misread signals or they're just looking for a lackey. The friendships I've formed in the last few years were all formed through a careful back and forth, testing out limits, and after someone declared me a friend and me asking "are we friends though? Really? Do you seriously like me?" until they smothered me with a hug and told me to stop being an idiot because of course we are.

 

[Darthsuhtek]

That's not a problem, that's just a question.

Are you trolling me? A question can posit a problem.

Personally, what I get from the analogy is that I am not good at Violin, but that I may be great at playing the Cello. Just because we can't do things exactly like NT's does not mean that we cannot learn to approach the situation from another point and excel. Despite my awful socialising skills, something manages to shine through about me and I do make friends (Few and it's difficult) and people like me.

Very well put.

 

[Darthsuhtek]

"Socialize" is a general term, so you may be thinking of something other than I am. I don't think it's impossible to socialize, rather that it's impractical for me to spend too much energy on it. NT socializing is not what it seems, and I could never keep up with it's intricacies. For example, for most people, small talk isn't--as I had assumed--just filler before the real conversation begins. In small talk NTs are like a pair dogs walking in a circle slightly baring their teeth. They are assessing the power situation; who is the dominator and who is the dominee? When most aspies try to small talk, we sincerely believe it's just words about things that no one cares much about. NTs can sense and function in the other dimension of small talk, we generally can't.

I am using the OP's verbiage.

 

[abby normal]

WOW OFelix and NowWhat, both your descriptions are like bookends, they express the A-Z of it very well!

 

[Darthsuhtek]

I wanted to know if it rang as true for others here as it does for me. That seems to be the case. I was simply trying to convey things I have realized about AS. The conclusions will be as varied as the readers. Pick the one that applies to you.

I understand the purpose a bit better now. I would say that I don't even know how to get onstage to play!

 

[Adora]

Sounds exactly like my struggle everyday,I can socialise to a degree but I will never be a accomplished "violinist".

 

[ksheehan88]

Violin sounds **** anyway

 

[Mary Terry]

I think it's an excellent analogy and will use it in the future.

 

[Mary Terry]

"Socialize" is a general term, so you may be thinking of something other than I am. I don't think it's impossible to socialize, rather that it's impractical for me to spend too much energy on it. NT socializing is not what it seems, and I could never keep up with it's intricacies. For example, for most people, small talk isn't--as I had assumed--just filler before the real conversation begins. In small talk NTs are like a pair dogs walking in a circle slightly baring their teeth. They are assessing the power situation; who is the dominator and who is the dominee? When most aspies try to small talk, we sincerely believe it's just words about things that no one cares much about. NTs can sense and function in the other dimension of small talk, we generally can't.

 

[Mary Terry]

Everyone here seems to socialize very well, albeit in written text rather than vocalization. These social conversations are much the same as NTs' conversations. Is there a significant difficulty in expressing in spoken words what you often elegantly and articulately express in writing?

 

[Illuminatas]

Kind of like when I get on stage and attempt to do comedy . . .

 

[Darthsuhtek]

Everyone here seems to socialize very well, albeit in written text rather than vocalization. These social conversations are much the same as NTs' conversations. Is there a significant difficulty in expressing in spoken words what you often elegantly and articulately express in writing?

I think text over the internet levels the playing field, because it takes out tone of voice, body language, and the semi-anonymity allows one to not hold back as much. It's essentially easy mode. One drawback is you only have context to interpret what is being said. Sarcasm has notoriously been misread on the interwebs.

 

[paloftoon]

Everyone here seems to socialize very well, albeit in written text rather than vocalization. These social conversations are much the same as NTs' conversations. Is there a significant difficulty in expressing in spoken words what you often elegantly and articulately express in writing?

Well it cuts both ways. There can be difficulty in expressing the importance of tone and empathy in writing, especially when something has a negative connotation.

For me, I actually have the tendency to do well with spoken word because I seem to naturally be able to carry myself in an authentic manner that is honest, yet sensible, fresh, and not demeaning much of the time.

However, in spoken word and sometimes in what I say, I also have a tendency to say something negative when it would be better to say something that aims toward more positive things.

In spoken word, if someone starts to get upset at what you said, you can "edit" on the spot and continue a different path with what you say following that.

However, something that is written, it stays on more permanently because it can be read over and over. When it's something negative, even if you don't mean for it to be negative, it stains those walls more "permanently."

 

[Mary Terry]

Good points. I would like to try using only written language with my autistic GED students who cannot speak (some cannot "volunteer" words at all) but it would be so time consuming that I don't think we could do it.

Off topic but I've seen recent comments about ASD math abilities. Among other things, I teach basic math, algebra and geometry needed to pass the GED. Some of my students are obviously brilliant at math but cannot show me how they arrived at the correct answer. The GED coursework requires them to write out each step they take to solve an equation or a math problem. I know some of them don't understand why they have to show each step and some don't seem to know how they even arrive at the correct answers. It blows my mind because I'm not good at math. Math is essentially memorization for me (it's just a bunch of rules) but seems effortlessly innate for some of them.

 

[Darthsuhtek]

Good points. I would like to try using only written language with my autistic GED students who cannot speak (some cannot "volunteer" words at all) but it would be so time consuming that I don't think we could do it.

Off topic but I've seen recent comments about ASD math abilities. Among other things, I teach basic math, algebra and geometry needed to pass the GED. Some of my students are obviously brilliant at math but cannot show me how they arrived at the correct answer. The GED coursework requires them to write out each step they take to solve an equation or a math problem. I know some of them don't understand why they have to show each step and some don't seem to know how they even arrive at the correct answers. It blows my mind because I'm not good at math. Math is essentially memorization for me (it's just a bunch of rules) but seems effortlessly innate for some of them.

As a math person I consider showing one's work to be very important. a lot of the time the proof of a math problem can be extremely beautiful, and it'd be a shame to not see and follow it. I guess you could tell your students that the answer of the problem is not the complete 'picture.'

Math does require a great deal of memorization to be adept at it. My father,who is a mathematician, has committed to memory some pretty obscure math papers from the past 200 + years.

I do not know how long rigor has been emphasized in the math world. I think they really started obsessing (rightfully) with it in the 19th century.

Note: Although a brilliant mathematician Ramanujan did not prove every bit of math he put to paper. Much of it has been reverse engineered (i.e. modern mathematicians have proven the ideas he put forward). Much of his math seems to appear magically and it would a treasure to understand what exactly his thought process was.

 

[paloftoon]

. . . Some of my students are obviously brilliant at math but cannot show me how they arrived at the correct answer. The GED coursework requires them to write out each step they take to solve an equation or a math problem. I know some of them don't understand why they have to show each step and some don't seem to know how they even arrive at the correct answers. It blows my mind because I'm not good at math. Math is essentially memorization for me (it's just a bunch of rules) but seems effortlessly innate for some of them.

I don't consider myself brilliant at math, but I do understand it extremely well very solidly up to a Calculus level. After that, my understanding starts to teeter and it is more rules based until I can progress much further.

What helps you understand math rather than memorizing rules is being able to connect patterns to each other and even realizing that there is/are pattern(s) that are generally not described in textbooks. In some cases, that may require more advanced knowledge of mathematics, and in other cases, it is how things are connected between different topics.

For instance, 0.34 can also be written as 34% or 34/100, or written out as "thirty four hundredths." If you know how to say it, you can figure out the fraction!

For polynomial division, most of the steps directly parallel long division. So, if students know how to do long division traditionally/manually, one can visually compare long division to comparable steps in polynomial division to see many similarities with a few complications added to polynomial long division.

 

[4gottenLoreKali]

I think you've pretty much perfectly illustrated the struggle that a lot of aspies (myself included) go through every day. I too think in metaphors sometimes; I always likened the aspie experience to being a robot or electronic product that got off the assembly lacking key programming that every other robot has, guaranteeing their success. But I enjoy your allegory way more.

I'd like to think I'm beginning to learn violin, but I still am mastering the most basic chords. I hope I can learn how to play a song before my time here on Earth is through.

I think text over the internet levels the playing field, because it takes out tone of voice, body language, and the semi-anonymity allows one to not hold back as much. It's essentially easy mode. One drawback is you only have context to interpret what is being said. Sarcasm has notoriously been misread on the interwebs.

I find this has been my experience as well, but let me add to that. If someone were to do an interview with me I'd insist that we have it via email as opposed to in-person or over the phone, because with typing you have the time and space to really flesh out your thoughts and edit your wordage before submitting your response (although this is a sorely underutilized benefit of computers, if much of social media is any indication). You're not as "on-the-spot". Whereas speaking in-person requires you to follow all these ironclad yet unspoken social rules like establishing eye contact, not speaking out of turn, not slurring your words, and so on. Aspies have long been associated with having a hard time with internalizing these rules and I'm no exception. If someone were to have a conversation with me via text message versus over the phone they'd think they were talking to two different people.

 

[nowwhat]

I think you've pretty much perfectly illustrated the struggle that a lot of aspies (myself included) go through every day. I too think in metaphors sometimes; I always likened the aspie experience to being a robot or electronic product that got off the assembly lacking key programming that every other robot has, guaranteeing their success. But I enjoy your allegory way more.

I'd like to think I'm beginning to learn violin, but I still am mastering the most basic chords. I hope I can learn how to play a song before my time here on Earth is through.



I find this has been my experience as well, but let me add to that. If someone were to do an interview with me I'd insist that we have it via email as opposed to in-person or over the phone, because with typing you have the time and space to really flesh out your thoughts and edit your wordage before submitting your response (although this is a sorely underutilized benefit of computers, if much of social media is any indication). You're not as "on-the-spot". Whereas speaking in-person requires you to follow all these ironclad yet unspoken social rules like establishing eye contact, not speaking out of turn, not slurring your words, and so on. Aspies have long been associated with having a hard time with internalizing these rules and I'm no exception. If someone were to have a conversation with me via text message versus over the phone they'd think they were talking to two different people.

I have told internet friends, "to text with me is the best of me." I was verbally precocious from an early age. Am pretty much a social cripple IRL. And the difference in my abilities to enjoy conversation and to understand and be understood, via text or in person, is all down to the removal of the nonverbal 80%, or whatever it is. The difference is telling.

As far as what I do with my violin, a lifetime of bullying has grown me teeth. I don't know how to play, but if the recital turns snarky and hostile, I commence the most horrific, atonal, arrhythmic sonic assault imaginable. In other words, I pretty much say what's on my mind, candidly. Does not win me friends, but most of those would be of the fake variety, and I'd rather be despised for being unafraid and offensive, than be a meek, sniveling, pandering punching bag. If people get in my face, I get right back at them.

 

[pax]

Years ago an NT colleague basically handed me an analogy. We were discussing a "reality" tv show of the time where they think they are signing up for a luxury holiday -instead they are put on a slow boat to a remote village somewhere, sharing living space with chickens. When they get there, they have no foodie water, they don't speak the language, they don't know the customs or taboos, and they have to survive in third world coditions.

"It's terrible!" Sdhe raged."its abusive and shouldn't be allowed!"

I thought"this is mylife"

 

[Kupu2]

Everyone here seems to socialize very well, albeit in written text rather than vocalization. These social conversations are much the same as NTs' conversations. Is there a significant difficulty in expressing in spoken words what you often elegantly and articulately express in writing?

With writing, I can take my time, phrase things my way and edit before I post. Conversation requires fast thinking and I end up with my social script, which is not what I think or feel. It is what I've learned to say to fit in, or shut people up.