Yet another shooting, yet another "Aspergers Syndrome" diagnosis

[grapesicles]

Such a horrible event to read about.

I can see why people are scared to get an AS diagnosis, especially if an uninformed potential employer is quick to jump to conclusions. At least there are new laws preventing that kind of discrimination now. Obviously not every person with Aspergers has desires to do anything similar.

 

[Ereth]

Watching the video now. I disagree with some of the early points regarding gun control (if anyone wants to know why, PM me; I'll not derail the thread), but the rest of this man's argument seems fairly sound so far. I just wish he didn't try to make me feel like a bag of manure about what I think about the various subtopics related to this whole mess.

 

[alexa roper]

Another thing that I has been on my mind...If any girl did make the mistake of trying to date the Isla Vista shooter, I could only see two possible scenarios for how things would play out...

1. He would grow angry and violent when "she" refused to bow down to him and give him the sex that he felt that he so rightfully deserved whenever he felt like it.
2. She would realize how unstable he was and dump him, not realizing that he would probably begin plotting revenge against her.

As I see it, nothing would have made him happy, and now I'm starting to think that he was just a plain ol' sociopath.

 

[Soup]

Every society has both Narcissists & Sociopaths (Psychopaths etc.). Although I don't think it is truly possible to get a reliable statistic on what percentage of given populations they represent. I've seen 10% bandied about, but I am doubtful about the accuracy of this.

Many young people in the world watch violent movies & play violent video games. Hormones being what they are, young men (& women too) develop a keen interest in sex (not every person, buy most). Why do you suppose such shootings are so prevalent within the USA but are virtuallly unknown in many other places?

 

[GoofKing]

Why do you suppose such shootings are so prevalent within the USA but are virtuallly unknown in many other places?

Because American's could careless about foreign affairs ? :/

 

[GoofKing]

Not saying that we should or anything but American's seem to care less about the crap that's happening over seas ...

 

[gonzerd]

Every society has both Narcissists & Sociopaths (Psychopaths etc.). Although I don't think it is truly possible to get a reliable statistic on what percentage of given populations they represent. I've seen 10% bandied about, but I am doubtful about the accuracy of this.

Many young people in the world watch violent movies & play violent video games. Hormones being what they are, young men (& women too) develop a keen interest in sex (not every person, buy most). Why do you suppose such shootings are so prevalent within the USA but are virtuallly unknown in many other places?

Just thought I'd mention that it isn't just in the USA. The rather rational and reserved people of little Belgium have had three since 2008. And we have very strict gun laws.

2008 Antwerp
2009 Dendermonde
2011 Liege
(wikipedia links)

 

[alexa roper]

He hated his parents for not knowing how miserable he was, but he didn't try to talk to them about how he felt. He even planned to kill his little brother, whom he'd once saved from drowning, for apparently having the kind of successful life he'd always wanted. And Rodger's last remaining friend, James, was essentially scared off when he was told of fantasies of killing women and stripping the flesh from their bones. But as isolated as he made himself, people were still trying to help him, right up until the end.

I'm not sure that all the friends in the world would have been able to satisfy his need.

I also wonder if his little brother knows, or is going to find out that his older brother was plotting to murder him? That would probably leave some pretty significant psychological scars. I also wonder why the shooter didn't go through with killing his step mother and brother? Did he change his mind? Or was a wretch just thrown into his plans?

I wonder a lot lol

 

[alexa roper]

Oh and he also credited himself for the fact that his brother had such an amazing life. I remember reading something along the lines of "If I had not pulled him out of the water that day, his whole life wouldn't exist"

 

[Soup]

There have been some here in Canada too. Our school shooters have been people who have a long documented history of mental disturbance BUT that is also true of Rodgers. I know that mass shootings do happen elsewhere but it is nowhere near as prevalent as it is in the USA (per capita). Easy access to & easy availability of firearms is a factor to consider: in some nations, finding a gun is as hard as finding a 4 leaf clover & going on a boomerang or baseball bat or spear rampage poses practical challenges...Also culture plays a role too: in some societies, the very idea that acting out in this way is an option (albeit a very bad & illegal one) is unknown. A deranged person in an isolated tribal community might have an entirely different culturally feasible way of acting out.

Do some societies make it easier for people to become isolated (who do not want to be) or become lonely without others noticing? Is there something about some societies' 'values' that facilitate this type of acting out?

 

[Tarragon]

Interesting reading reflecting troubled upbringings versus considerations of autism:

LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch)—With two mass shootings allegedly committed by young men diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome, the temptation may be for the public to blame the autistic condition for the crimes, but experts and observers say that would be a mistake.

Blaming shootings on autism a mistake: experts - MarketWatch

I quote from this article:

"Son, who treats a number of young autism patients, says that obsessive behavior can result from the disease and patients can become fixated on certain issues. But other factors usually come into play when behavior becomes overwhelmingly violent."

A disease? Yeah right.... :/

Why can't people get their facts right!!

 

[Soup]

@Alexa: I remember hearing this about him too. He seemed to be so grandiose! Although he saved his brother's life, that does not mean he deserves credit for everything his brother subsequently accomplishes. A more normal sibling would simply be proud of their brother (or sister) & happy for him (her).

Hatred, grandiosity & entitlement seem to be overriding traits in Rodger's personality. Oddly, though, he did not seem to be either homophobic or racist (then again, I have only seen excerpts of his manifesto).

 

[Ereth]

Oh and he also credited himself for the fact that his brother had such an amazing life. I remember reading something along the lines of "If I had not pulled him out of the water that day, his whole life wouldn't exist"

No, I don't think he was crediting himself for his brother's accomplishments at that point. Not yet. It's true, though----had he not saved him, his brother would have drowned. No one else even noticed that this had even happened---just a little girl swimming in the shallow end.

And Soup, the hatred, grandiosity, and entitlement come from a lack of self-worth that really began in childhood. It seems that that was the foundation for his severe emotional issues. His family situation does not appear to have been a particularly healthy one. His father was frequently away on business, he was rather detached from his mother, and he had a difficult relationship with his stepmother, who, at one point, discovered that he did not like the soup she made him eat, so she used it as a punishment.

While there's no evidence that I've seen that suggests Rodger was homophobic, he was incredibly racist and described non-white people in dehumanizing terms. Although he was born to a Chinese mother, he didn't really acknowledge that side of his heritage much, choosing instead to focus on his father's connection to British bluebloods.

In his manifesto, he rages against black, Hispanic, and Asian individuals for being able to succeed with women. His preference for, and specific hatred of, certain women is racist in itself---white women only, and mostly blondes.

 

[Ereth]

Not saying that we should or anything but American's seem to care less about the crap that's happening over seas ...

Obviously I can't speak for everyone in my country, but you really should spend a day in my head before you say that.

 

[alexa roper]

No, I don't think he was crediting himself for his brother's accomplishments at that point. Not yet. It's true, though----had he not saved him, his brother would have drowned. No one else even noticed that this had even happened---just a little girl swimming in the shallow end.

While there's no evidence that I've seen that suggests Rodger was homophobic, he was incredibly racist and described non-white people in dehumanizing terms. Although he was born to a Chinese mother, he didn't really acknowledge that side of his heritage much, choosing instead to focus on his father's connection to British bluebloods.

In his manifesto, he rages against black, Hispanic, and Asian individuals for being able to succeed with women. His preference for, and specific hatred of, certain women is racist in itself---white women only, and mostly blondes.

From page 51 of the manifesto : "Every single second of my brother's life, everything that happens to him in the future, will exist because I pulled him out of the water that day." So he was crediting himself for what his brother was going to accomplish- is a better way to put it.

And yeah he literally hated everyone. It either came from jealousy or his grandiose, but that boy was filled with so much hatred.

 

[Ereth]

I think it's a little of both. I mean, good and bad things happen to everyone during life. So I read that part as more of a recognition of the fact that his brother owes him his life. But I know what you're getting at. It's probably more implied than explicitly stated.

That's one of the saddest parts of the whole thing to me . . . of everyone in his life, Rodger at least definitely loved his brother once, and then grew to hate him enough to want to kill him.

 

[Soup]

@ Ereth: /thank you for sharing your knowledge of this case. You're obviously much more familiar with his manifesto than I am. I have only seen snippets, thus far, but I do intend to read the entire thing. /i also knew nothing about his relationship with his parents. While the info you have shared about it does indicate some rough spots, they do not seem to have been truly dysfunctional or abusive people.Although..making an Aspie (or any kid) eat something you know they hate as a punishment is problematic,

What do you know about his experience with bullying? CNN reported that someone had broken his leg, but they did not provide any details about the circumstances. Was bullying something pervasive in his life? Also, did you read anything about an actual living, breathing blonde haired woman who had 'rejected' (or simply declined) his advances?

With someone like him, teasing out what really happened to him & what was his own personal distortion or outright invention.

 

[Judge]

What do you know about his experience with bullying? CNN reported that someone had broken his leg, but they did not provide any details about the circumstances. Was bullying something pervasive in his life?

As I recall the video link Brent posted goes into that incident based on Rodger's own twisted account.

 

[Rob]

Gunman wrote his experiences at British prep school led to shooting spree - Telegraph

I am getting more than a little fed up of (a) shootings (is this some sort of copycat thing going on, as it seems to be happening more and more frequently?!) and (b) Aspergers Syndrome keeps getting mentioned in relation to it.

We all know life is more complicated than just a simple "oh, he/she had Asperger's syndrome, that explains it" but I am wondering if it is going to go in that direction. Certainly, mentioning that the shooter was an aspie will fix that idea in the publics mind more and more. Aspergers Doesn't Make People Murdering Psychotics!

Reading the article and some of the quotes this person is reported to have said doesn't make me feel he is a typical aspie as found here on AC for example. He just comes across as a psychotic delusional with arrogant thoughts and delusions of grandeur. That isn't typical Aspergers.

I just wish newspapers would point this out rather than just mentioning that the murderer had Aspergers.

The reporting of the Santa Barbara shooting seemed to make Asperger's and delusional behaviour almost synonymous. What an insult to the Aspie community! Having nothing to do with ASD, Elliot Rodger appeared to equate being materially rich to being sexually appealing. When his narcissistic delusion was continually being shattered, he hardened his position even more. As he kept on justifying his erratic behaviour he continued on his downward spiral to his final fate. It is almost like re-enacting the movie Hunger Games, of which his father played a big part in producing it. I have never watched the movie but I have heard it is violent and gory.

 

[Ereth]

@ Ereth: thank you for sharing your knowledge of this case. You're obviously much more familiar with his manifesto than I am. I have only seen snippets, thus far, but I do intend to read the entire thing. /i also knew nothing about his relationship with his parents. While the info you have shared about it does indicate some rough spots, they do not seem to have been truly dysfunctional or abusive people. Although..making an Aspie (or any kid) eat something you know they hate as a punishment is problematic.

What do you know about his experience with bullying? CNN reported that someone had broken his leg, but they did not provide any details about the circumstances. Was bullying something pervasive in his life? Also, did you read anything about an actual living, breathing blonde haired woman who had 'rejected' (or simply declined) his advances?.

Back on page five of the thread, Brent posted a link to a website he made that contains the full manifesto.

I definitely don't think his parents intended to be abusive, and I'm not pinning all of Rodger's problems on them, because I only know about what Rodger wrote himself, but . . . I do feel they neglected him in some ways. They constantly shifted him around to different schools, and their late summer vacations meant he often started school late, after students had already begun forming friendships at the beginning of the school year. That's not good for a kid who is so shy.

His parents divorced when he was young, and apparently, rather than giving him time to adjust, Rodger's father announced that the woman who would become Elliot's stepmother was moving in only a few months after the divorce, with no period of time to really get used to the new presence in his life. Really shite, if you ask me.

And yes, Soup, he was bullied, though we don't get all the details of every incident. He was also bullied by a blonde-haired girl he had a crush on.

Rob: That particular article didn't conflate ASD with his delusions. All it did was report that he'd apparently been diagnosed with ASD as a child (something which we don't definitively know to be true at this point).