Suicide hotlines are useless

[Tarliki]

Trust me when I say they are useless, overrated and DON'T SAVE LIVES. I haven't touched a suicide hotline since 2020 despite feeling suicidal the past few months and the beginning of last year. 90% of the people who used to work on the hotline are generic, basic teenage girls who are emotionally flat and have the emotional depth and empathy of a toothbrush. They speak like robots, reciting scripted lines and platitudes that there were times I actually began to question if I was speaking to a friggin AI CPU. Most of the people dont care at all about you, and trust me when I say their only help amounts to asking "what do you like to normally do" then telling you to go do it. Or they call 911, which is dumb since what's the point of calling the hotline if you can call 911 yourself??

To those who are suicidal take it from me when I say the suicide hotline is a joke and doesnt help at all.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

Last year I felt suicidal because of the pandemic face masks. I was tempted to call one of those numbers instead I opted to talk to the pastor and a friend. Glad I did not. I did not want them to call 911 which would bring more trouble and have me commited.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

My area has a crisis hotline where you can call if you are having a crisis of any type. I’ve used it before and the operators are trained to help people. The organization that operates it also has a place where people can stay if they have a crisis and don’t feel safe in their homes and don’t need hospitalization and temporary shelter if you are facing homelessness and need help finding a new place to live. I used the crisis stay after I was physically assaulted by the woman that helped raise me and I was terrified to be in my apartment because she had a key to enter it and I was afraid she would try to hurt me inside my own home and I needed to get away from her while I got the locks changed and a new landline number. I also took a few things that I was afraid to leave in the apartment because I wasn’t sure if she’d take them and refuse to give them back or break them.

 

[tree]

@Tarliki
"...the suicide hotline is a joke and doesnt help at all."

Unless you are speaking from beyond the grave,
it would appear that you are currently living.

To what do you attribute this state of being ?
i.e. Since the suicide hotline was of no help to you,
what was?

 

[Suzette]

If you are wanting to commit suicide and don't because you called a suicide prevention line, if you are still living, then, yes, "it worked".

Nope, they won't solve your problems or make you happy. But that is not their job. Their job is just to help you live a little longer so that you have a chance of solving your problems. It can feel ugly and painful and unstatisfying, but if you are alive, it worked.

 

[Tarliki]

If you are wanting to commit suicide and don't because you called a suicide prevention line, if you are still living, then, yes, "it worked".

Nope, they won't solve your problems or make you happy. But that is not their job. Their job is just to help you live a little longer so that you have a chance of solving your problems. It can feel ugly and painful and unstatisfying, but if you are alive, it worked.

I dont mean to sound rude, but your entire post is one giant fallacy, specifically this fallacy:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia

I am not alive because of the suicide prevention hotline, but in spite of it. Saying that the suicide hotline was effective because I am alive is as fallacious and specious a claim as saying Albert Einstein's terrible grammar instructors were the reason why he became one of the greatest physicists of all time, despite Einstein explicitly mentioning his childhood grammar instructors as being a negative towards his education due to their drill sergeant like rigidity which is inconducive towards fostering the kind of creativity that allowed Einstein to be so renowned.

 

[Tarliki]

@Tarliki
"...the suicide hotline is a joke and doesnt help at all."

Unless you are speaking from beyond the grave,
it would appear that you are currently living.

To what do you attribute this state of being ?
i.e. Since the suicide hotline was of no help to you,
what was?

What do I attribute that helped me live? Everything except the suicide hotline. Eating healthier. Trying medicine. Seeing a therapist. Calling other mental health lines such as the warmlines:

Warmline Directory

And many more thing helped me survive. The suicide hotline, barring a few good callers, was actually one of the things that made me feel MORE suicidal due to the plethora of negative experiences on it.

 

[OkRad]

Totally useless. Further, possibly even dangerous.

First.....There are many who are ordered to sit on those lines for community service because they did something wrong. How brilliant is that?!

I knew a guy who cheated on his GF and called one of those lines and the woman told him to go ahead and kill himself. I hardly consider he didn't do it in spite of or because of that line. He just didn't do it. Probably someone on community services POed to be there.

The news has countless stories of some poor fellow who has a bad day and calls a line and ends up committed with rights removed (some for life) and ordered medication and all sorts of troubles that are 100x worse than what he had before.

They are now just money machines. Millions of dollars in grants to funnel people into privatized systems that need more people in them to keep receiving gvt grants. Maybe different in others places, but call at your own risk and be advised.

 

[Suzette]

I am sorry. I know you think I am being dismissive of your concerns. That is not my intention.
My intention is to give you another point of view you can use to feel better about this topic.

But you have made an important point, you are here, alive, because you choose to be. Do you feel the power and control you have in that choice? No one can ever "make" you do anything. You choose to live because it is your choice to make. That ia a beautifull thing!

 

[aspie1w]

What will say about will be controversial so don't say that I don't warned about later said that , the suicide hotlines works as long as who is in a desperate situation be receptive to get help or listen to who is attempting to help, otherwise will not be of help, I know this because I been in the place that wants to visit Tarliki and to be truthfully that solution might look like the easy way at the beginning but later realize that it's the wrong way road taken make suffer to friends, family and etc, and at the end your situation don't get any better but get worse, so if you are trying so hard to do those things it's better you get help from a doctor that should focus all those energies.

If you still alive it's because something stopped you from do this action and that is good, but please don't ever try to do that , I have experience well were like you by several years and the only that got was make suffer to friends, lost friends because they got tired that all my conversation was how bad was still alive and my job and studies downhill and in all those years that left a depression without proper treatment I regret because lost the time with things that didn't helped at all.


Best regards
Aspie1W

 

[Callistemon]

@Tarliki, I agree about the logical fallacy - that a person who has been suicidal is still around is clearly not necessarily thanks to suicide helplines, even if they were called.

At the same time, to be fair, you overgeneralised in your first post. Saying you and people you talked to found them useless shows these lines don't always help, but doesn't show that they never help anybody.

I'd say that as is often the case with all sorts of things, the quality of the service depends on whom you get, how well you click, and also a bit on whether they are having a good day or not.

I once rang an Australian 24-hour crisis line when I was in genuine crisis after hours. I was asked, "Are you suicidal?" and said no, but extremely distressed and in a crisis. They did not ask me about my situation but told me to ring someone else. I was surprised because this was not the suicide helpline, it was just called a crisis line, and asked whom should I ring. They told me to look in the phone book, and hung up. I HAD looked in the phone book!

Because I've often lived remote and/or without decent professional services, I've occasionally rung a general helpline of some sort. About half the time it resulted in a useful conversation, both with trained people and with volunteers. Other times you get people trying to convert you to their religion or obviously reading off a script or for whatever reason being unhelpful for your situation.

These services are stopgaps, not like a good continuous professional service. We can discuss the affordability of these and I expect many people don't have money to splash around on these things unless they are subsidised or they have a very well-paid full time job.

In Australia there is now a little more funding for stuff like this but the reality is also that there isn't much continuity with the people you get to see. So while I've been to some good services and had helpful sessions along the way for dealing with family-of-origin dysfunction, things I wanted to deal with in myself, PTSD etc, it's been patchy and I've learnt a lot more overall from DIY, self-education, friends and especially from people telling their own stories, including online.

Anyone here had a vastly different experience in either direction?

 

[aspie1w]

Where I live doesn't exist those hotlines for crisis or suicide hotlines so

 

[Tarliki]

Oh my gosh people. Stop writing these things. Helplines save lives. You may hurt someone unintentionally and scare them away from seeking anonymous help.

Nope. Helplines dont save lives as often as they are hyped out to be. I'm not scaring anyone, just being realistic and letting people know from experience what I and many others went through using these lines. If anything I would wager that most suicidal people are better off NOT using the hotlines than using them.

 

[Tarliki]

@Tarliki, I agree about the logical fallacy - that a person who has been suicidal is still around is clearly not necessarily thanks to suicide helplines, even if they were called.

At the same time, to be fair, you overgeneralised in your first post. Saying you and people you talked to found them useless shows these lines don't always help, but doesn't show that they never help anybody.

I'd say that as is often the case with all sorts of things, the quality of the service depends on whom you get, how well you click, and also a bit on whether they are having a good day or not.

I once rang an Australian 24-hour crisis line when I was in genuine crisis after hours. I was asked, "Are you suicidal?" and said no, but extremely distressed and in a crisis. They did not ask me about my situation but told me to ring someone else. I was surprised because this was not the suicide helpline, it was just called a crisis line, and asked whom should I ring. They told me to look in the phone book, and hung up. I HAD looked in the phone book!

Because I've often lived remote and/or without decent professional services, I've occasionally rung a general helpline of some sort. About half the time it resulted in a useful conversation, both with trained people and with volunteers. Other times you get people trying to convert you to their religion or obviously reading off a script or for whatever reason being unhelpful for your situation.

These services are stopgaps, not like a good continuous professional service. We can discuss the affordability of these and I expect many people don't have money to splash around on these things unless they are subsidised or they have a very well-paid full time job.

In Australia there is now a little more funding for stuff like this but the reality is also that there isn't much continuity with the people you get to see. So while I've been to some good services and had helpful sessions along the way for dealing with family-of-origin dysfunction, things I wanted to deal with in myself, PTSD etc, it's been patchy and I've learnt a lot more overall from DIY, self-education, friends and especially from people telling their own stories, including online.

Anyone here had a vastly different experience in either direction?

I never said they never help. I said on average they are more likely to harm or even do nothing than help. I stand by this statement as someone who used to regularly call the hotlines back in 2020 when I had no therapist, that not only did they not help but many times I felt MORE suicidal AFTER calling than before. You heard that right. Heck, one of the times the girl on the line even told me "ok cool" when I said I feel like killing myself. I immediately hung up shocked at such a nonchalant response after declaring I felt suicidal, and subsequently attempted suicide after hanging up. I only survived because a bystander happened to save me.

Barring a couple good people on the other end most of the people on the hotline were straight up useless talking to.

 

[Bolletje]

I have nothing but good experiences with suicide prevention hotlines, to be honest. I have called them three times in an acute crisis, and three times they have helped me calm down in a very patient and friendly way. Sure, the hotlines can’t fix being suicidal, one generally needs therapy and/or other types of help for that, but they can talk you off the ledge, so to speak, and help you come up with a plan on how to survive the time until you can meet with a licensed mental health care professional. At least, that has been my experience.

 

[Tarliki]

I have nothing but good experiences with suicide prevention hotlines, to be honest. I have called them three times in an acute crisis, and three times they have helped me calm down in a very patient and friendly way. Sure, the hotlines can’t fix being suicidal, one generally needs therapy and/or other types of help for that, but they can talk you off the ledge, so to speak, and help you come up with a plan on how to survive the time until you can meet with a licensed mental health care professional. At least, that has been my experience.

I'm very happy for you that they helped save your life. I only wish they did the same for me when I was suicidal and needed someone to talk to.....

 

[Callistemon]

I never said they never help. I said on average they are more likely to harm or even do nothing than help.

That is not what you said in your original post. You said:

Trust me when I say they are useless, overrated and DON'T SAVE LIVES. ...To those who are suicidal take it from me when I say the suicide hotline is a joke and doesnt help at all.

You also said:

I haven't touched a suicide hotline since 2020 despite feeling suicidal the past few months and the beginning of last year. 90% of the people who used to work on the hotline are generic, basic teenage girls who are emotionally flat and have the emotional depth and empathy of a toothbrush.

Where did you get those statistics? They sound really unrealistic to me and like they are just your own opinion. I live in a different country, but I seriously doubt that yours staffs suicide lines with 90% teenage girls, let alone of the description you give.

What I took from your post is that people can have bad experiences on suicide prevention lines, as on other helplines, or in any other situation where you are dealing with human beings. I think it's helpful for people to know beforehand that this can happen so that if it happens to them, they can hang up and get help elsewhere. Such as on a better helpline or just trying another person, while the are in crisis. And to know that helplines are stopgap and other help is also needed.

I think most of us can agree on that?

 

[Tarliki]

That is not what you said in your original post. You said:



You also said:



Where did you get those statistics? They sound really unrealistic to me and like they are just your own opinion. I live in a different country, but I seriously doubt that yours staffs suicide lines with 90% teenage girls, let alone of the description you give.

What I took from your post is that people can have bad experiences on suicide prevention lines, as on other helplines, or in any other situation where you are dealing with human beings. I think it's helpful for people to know beforehand that this can happen so that if it happens to them, they can hang up and get help elsewhere. Such as on a better helpline or just trying another person, while the are in crisis. And to know that helplines are stopgap and other help is also needed.

I think most of us can agree on that?

Even if the number I used for the statistics wasn't precise it still attests to just how bad the hotlines are whereby in a long period using them I haven't touched them since 2020 despite how many suicide crises ive been in since. For comparison sakes whenever I use the warmlines, which are also mental health lines mind you, the statistic is reversed: 90% good experiences and 10% bad experiences. In case you are wondering what the warmlines are:

Warmline Directory

 

[Tarliki]

I am sorry. I know you think I am being dismissive of your concerns. That is not my intention.
My intention is to give you another point of view you can use to feel better about this topic.

But you have made an important point, you are here, alive, because you choose to be. Do you feel the power and control you have in that choice? No one can ever "make" you do anything. You choose to live because it is your choice to make. That ia a beautifull thing!

I don't feel good being alive tbh.