Spectrum vs Distributions

[Ronald Zeeman]

I had an interesting thought in the shower, I do not terms like on the spectrum or in the distribution or how do we compare us to more typical populations visually without getting some weird distortion and then it just came to me how can I turn a bell curve into a spectrum visually. just take the bell curve treat it as a string stretch it out. plot standard deviations along its length 0 in the centre looks like spectrum but not with evenly spaced intervals. We are on the bell curve typical's are on spectrum spaced fairly evenly, with smaller variations I wish I could do graphics to show case what I can see. how we differ would be more obvious. after all a picture speaks a thousand words.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Vocabulary. I recognize that some words simply "rub people the wrong way". We can think of a lot of words. "Moist" really bothers some people. "Autism", "Spectrum", and "Disorder", each one of those words can bother some people.

Sometimes our cognitive biases want to imply a meaning that really isn't there. Sometimes the "street or lay-person's vernacular" has little to do with the medical terminology, or at the very least, it can be distorted. We can't keep changing medical terminology because of some sort of "sensitivity" or "alternative meaning" or "implication" amongst a group of people. Furthermore, the "spectrum" with regards to autism, as a whole, is not represented as a bell curve or a straight line, but more like my avatar on the left side of this text. Many metrics go into the "autism spectrum" and is why despite having a common condition amongst us, we are very much individuals.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I use terms that have meaning in mathematics, plus being a visual thinker, A bell curve is just one type of many in a class of distributions Spectrum is a chemical term and I have background in chemistry.

 

[Tom]

I have some difficulty visualizing what you describe.

I see the spectrum not as a bell curve. I see the spectrum as just being one area of a straight line that bleeds into hybrid and then full neurotypical. As an analogy it would look something like the light spectrum.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I use terms that have meaning in mathematics, plus being a visual thinker, A bell curve is just one type of many in a class of distributions Spectrum is a chemical term and I have background in chemistry.

You can use a bell curve or any other mathematical distribution model to make statistical analysis of the very specific metrics that comprise the "autism spectrum", but not the autism spectrum, per se.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

This is just one example of a distribution another may more appropriate. I currently use this to determine how long I can expect to live based on the longest living person I do not think we are randomly distributed. Nature has some pattern to it just a matter of finding it. Normal distributions are the the most common found in nature.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I have some difficulty visualizing what you describe.

I see the spectrum not as a bell curve. I see the spectrum as just being one area of a straight line that bleeds into hybrid and then full neurotypical. As an analogy it would look something like the light spectrum.

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the issue with a spectrum the spacing is even if a specific wavelength was a person each is different, but we are a distinct population. With how we are distributed being unknown. on distributions spacing is not equal but pattern is based on things like standard deviations.

 

[Levitator]

I had an interesting thought in the shower, I do not terms like on the spectrum or in the distribution or how do we compare us to more typical populations visually without getting some weird distortion and then it just came to me how can I turn a bell curve into a spectrum visually. just take the bell curve treat it as a string stretch it out. plot standard deviations along its length 0 in the centre looks like spectrum but not with evenly spaced intervals. We are on the bell curve typical's are on spectrum spaced fairly evenly, with smaller variations I wish I could do graphics to show case what I can see. how we differ would be more obvious. after all a picture speaks a thousand words.

I'm not sure what you're describing, but if you're into computers, you can look at the tools "gnuplot" and "graphviz" (and the accompanying 'dot') for making really elaborate plots with minimal effort.

 

[Levitator]

I'm kind of concerned about the prospect that the world is going to become so insane that language and thought become obsolete and you wind up having to pray for everything, so goodbye to mathematics. We'll have to see, I guess.

 

[Misty Avich]

The word "autism" bothers me if mentioned to me about me.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I'm not sure what you're describing, but if you're into computers, you can look at the tools "gnuplot" and "graphviz" (and the accompanying 'dot') for making really elaborate plots with minimal effort.

I am a very logical thinker, but my way of thinking is not for some reason compatible with computers and programming. I guess in not linear enough. going down multiple paths at once.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

The word "autism" bothers me if mentioned to me about me.

Before I diagnosed myself, I saw autism as disabled, but other than that did not pay much attention, a bit curious about the cause of the stuff, did not see this as being anything to do with me.

 

[Levitator]

I am a very logical thinker, but my way of thinking is not for some reason compatible with computers and programming. I guess in not linear enough. going down multiple paths at once.

I've written a bunch of programs in my time. I try to avoid getting bogged down in my fascination with all of the available options, because you can basically spend as long as you want doing anything, no matter how simple, but only if you let yourself be tempted to complicate it. The thing I absolutely cannot deal with is social interaction. It's totally beyond me, and I only just now realized how consistently unable I am to reach people. I can't get over how long it took me to see it.

I'm trying to stop obsessing about it, but I just came off of like a fifteen year stint of trying to put my life together. I hope it takes me less than a year to stop staring in awe at my own stubbornness, and certainly less than fifteen.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Every computer course took in high school or college I failed do not have an aptitude. I'm one credit short of getting general high school diploma. failed basic grade nine computer course 49 years ago took math physics and chemistry
to get honour high school diploma. Also failed one really basic computer course in college using punch card one error and the program does not work I do not have what it takes to find that one error. Allowed one failure to get diploma so did not bother me even then I took many extra courses in micro biology.

 

[Levitator]

Every computer course took in high school or college I failed do not have an aptitude. I'm one credit short of getting general high school diploma. failed basic grade nine computer course 49 years ago took math physics and chemistry
to get honour high school diploma. Also failed one really basic computer course in college using punch card one error and the program does not work I do not have what it takes to find that one error. Allowed one failure to get diploma so did not bother me even then I took many extra courses in micro biology.

School is the opposite of representative of your talents. It's designed around the majority, of which you are not a member. The anecdote I like to tell (for being representative), is that they refused to teach us how to count, at least in any way which was meaningful to me. They would take kids to the front of the classroom and have them count by example, and it was like; what? There are rules, right? You're not going to explain them?

I wound up teaching myself how to count in a dream. I was asleep, and I dreamt the explanation, and woke up startled, and ran downstairs and told my mom I'd figured out how to count.

So, anyway, the techniques for debugging computer code; I reinvented a lot of that stuff "myself", but given that I learned how to count in a dream, I have to give all that to God, these days.

Another thing is that I sat in isolation for a long time pondering this stuff on my own, with very limited access to books and manuals, and this was before the Internet. So, I felt like God was just like "Oh, my God. I'm going to have to explain this all to you myself..."

 

[Levitator]

Before I diagnosed myself, I saw autism as disabled, but other than that did not pay much attention, a bit curious about the cause of the stuff, did not see this as being anything to do with me.

Um, well, there are people who certainly appear disabled to me. However, I think most of the people who turn me away and treat me unfairly are not even aware that they're doing it. I don't look disabled to them. I don't feel like it's a deficit on my part. I just express myself slightly differently, and maybe my thoughts are organized differently. and it turns people away; but I didn't wrong them, and they exhibit a strong dislike, sometimes very strong.

You have other people who are unable to speak, or their coordination is so poor they are limited in their abilities, and I'm glad I don't have to deal with that. I think the bottom line for me is that it makes me just odd enough that people reject me, even though I don't feel much different than other people in terms of practical capabilities. Some people deal with phobias or hypersensitivities. I feel very repressed because I've been smacked down so many times, and sometimes physically, too.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I don't see myself as being disabled, have skills that are unusual that kept me employed, my only disability was being able to stand for extended periods of time being grouped within the autistic community really surprised me being very high functioning, gave me no reason to see this.

 

[Jumpinbare]

We can't keep changing medical terminology because of some sort of "sensitivity" or "alternative meaning" or "implication" amongst a group of people.

Actually "we" do change medical terminology because of some sort of "sensitivity" or "alternative meaning" or "implication" amongst a group of people.

I jumped through a lot of hoops trying to get support for my younger son. He had a number of issues stemming from 7 foster homes, and living on the streets prior to that with his bio parents. He was tested 3 times to determine his intelligence, because they needed to know this in his therapy. There was only a 2 point spread in the IQ scores 50-52. Florida had a program he would qualify for if he was "mentally retarded" - that was the medical terminology in use at the time - and it was defined at IQ 49 or less. Years later, I mentioned that to a friend who was shocked I would use such a derogatory term! I informed him it was the actual medical term and he didn't believe me. I googled it for him and was surprised to find that the term had been replaced by "intellectual impairment".

 

[Levitator]

I don't see myself as being disabled, have skills that are unusual that kept me employed, my only disability was being able to stand for extended periods of time being grouped within the autistic community really surprised me being very high functioning, gave me no reason to see this.

If you asked for my totally uneducated opinion, I would say I don't think it's a disability, until it's so substantial you physically cannot do certain things, or you are overwhelmed emotionally or perceptually.

I do get overwhelmed by the emotions of being treated like garbage, but I don't feel like that originates with me; it's the reaction people exhibit towards my personality and manner of self-expression.

I've never been diagnosed, but I have a bunch of indicators for it, and today I found out that my gout is a known comorbidity. I don't need the label, but I do need a way to find people I relate to because I'm sick of being alone in life and not having any friends. It's exasperating. If I don't have autism, then what do I have? What else prevents you from making friends like 99.9% of the time, no matter how hard you try?

I can't make friends, I have gout, I have flat feet, I have trouble with eye contact, I was an uncoordinated mess at sports, although it doesn't impede me at much else. I was called a "nerd" endlessly, and I would agree, and am proud of it, because I like being that way. I have obsessive musical preferences, to the point where basically all of the music I enjoy fits in a 300-song playlist. I have extremely conceptually zoomed-in esoteric and technical hobbies, like software, and electronics, and radio. I think it becomes pretty obvious at this point. But you can never be sure what doctors have going on in their heads when they formulate the standards. I don't care though, because I'm interested in relating, not getting an official Weirdo feather in my cap.

 

[Levitator]

IQ scores are nonsense. I had a science teacher in middle-school who said he scored something outrageous, like over 200, and he said "That's wrong. Those tests don't mean anything." You should contemplate that even if an IQ test really did test intelligence (which is dubious), there are reasons other than a lack of intelligence to fail it. It could be perceptual, or emotional, or shyness, or stress, or a phobia, or a misunderstanding, etc, etc, etc.

Actually "we" do change medical terminology because of some sort of "sensitivity" or "alternative meaning" or "implication" amongst a group of people.

I jumped through a lot of hoops trying to get support for my younger son. He had a number of issues stemming from 7 foster homes, and living on the streets prior to that with his bio parents. He was tested 3 times to determine his intelligence, because they needed to know this in his therapy. There was only a 2 point spread in the IQ scores 50-52. Florida had a program he would qualify for if he was "mentally retarded" - that was the medical terminology in use at the time - and it was defined at IQ 49 or less. Years later, I mentioned that to a friend who was shocked I would use such a derogatory term! I informed him it was the actual medical term and he didn't believe me. I googled it for him and was surprised to find that the term had been replaced by "intellectual impairment".