Should Those on the Autism Spectrum Receive Special Treatment in Education or Employment?

[Mr Allen]

There should be a level playing field either way IMO, depending on the severity of someone's Autism, if they're HFA, they might still need a bit of help Academically at school and College, and in work, it pains me to say this but I know from experience as I've been trying with no success outside of the voluntary sector to get a job for the last 25 years, because as soon as you declare that you're Aspie on an online or paper job application, 99 times out of 100 your application gets filed in the "sod off, we're not employing you" file.. Equal opportunities my arse, they legally have to say that, they don't actually practice it IMO.

 

[Judge]

as soon as you declare that you're Aspie on an online or paper job application, 99 times out of 100 your application gets filed in the "sod off, we're not employing you" file.. Equal opportunities my arse, they legally have to say that, they don't actually practice it IMO.

Unfortunately as long as employment discrimination remains within the realm of civil law, it will always be incumbent on the victim to litigate the matter. Otherwise employers are relatively free to violate such laws, as long as they aren't caught overtly violating them.

Depending on the legalities and jurisdictions, if prospective employers can so easily circumvent the process to discriminate, it stands to reason that it may be in our best interest not to disclose if we are on the spectrum. Whether or not civil law allows it or not. Let them find out after the fact...or not at all.

Personally I'd rather hang onto a job under difficult circumstances than simply be denied the chance to be hired.

 

[SomeRandomAspie]

The subject of whether or not those on the spectrum should receive special treatment or privilege has been discussed and debated in other threads and even in the media. I thought it would be interesting to open a dialogue for those on the spectrum to see where others stand on the subject, as it is one that has an impact on all of us despite our age, sex, where we live, etc.

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EDUCATION – Personally, I believe it is essential that schools and educators have an understanding of the full spectrum of Autism. By doing so they can be in a better position to educate those on the spectrum and help prepare them for life outside the classroom, as that is where “the real world is.”

EMPLOYMENT – This may seem harsh, but I do not believe employers should be required to make special concessions for those on the spectrum. Yes, I have challenges, but they’re not the type like those with physical challenges. Despite my struggles in the workplace over the years, I have learned how to adapt and function in the world so I can hold a job without special privileges or concern that my employer may be viewing me as a possible threat to the safety of others or the integrity of the company.

Many of the jobs for which I have interviewed the question “Are there any special accommodations that you require?” has been asked. Personally, I could not envision saying, “Yes, I’m on the autism spectrum and I have a number of challenges that I expect others to understand and adapt to.” The world is a cold and cruel place, so I personally do not feel it will or should adapt to my “special needs” as one on the spectrum.

Bear in mind those are my personal views for me and not intended to be projected on anyone choosing to participate in this discussion.

It really depends on where you are on the spectrum. If you have HFA the probably both, if regular Asperger's probably both too, although with mild Asperger's I actually think higher education is required to keep them happy. I spent a few years in average classes after my outbreak of curiosity and it was awful. I had to start studying until 4 a.m. on anything and everything. By mild Asperger's which is a term seldom used, because Asperger's is already at the high functioning end of the spectrum, I mean the kind where you seldom have social difficulties and you are barely diagnosable.

 

[FreeDiver]

it stands to reason that it may be in our best interest not to disclose if we are on the spectrum. Whether or not civil law allows it or not. Let them find out after the fact...or not at all.

Personally I'd rather hang onto a job under difficult circumstances than simply be denied the chance to be hired.

But what happens if you don't disclose and you get the job anyway, only to find yourself in a situation that you can't recover from. You'll either be forced to quit of get fired.

 

[Judge]

But what happens if you don't disclose and you get the job anyway, only to find yourself in a situation that you can't recover from. You'll either be forced to quit of get fired.

Well, all those "what ifs" depend a great deal on the legalities and jurisdictions of such situations.

Just because someone hires you with knowledge of such conditions is no guarantee they won't try to terminate you for cause if you're later unable to do the job to their required standards. Especially if that same employer routinely discriminates against prospective employees and knows how to get around the legal considerations.

I'd rather be given a chance at the job as an employee rather than be an Aspie turned down for consideration in ways I have no real control over. Keeping in mind that in many cases employers are far more loyal to their bottom line than to any of their employees, who remain "expendable assets". There are no "sure things" when it comes to holding down much of any any job.

I've never had a job where I thought the company "had my back". Never. If there ever was, it was an era before I entered the job market in the 70s. A time before corporations realized they could downsize for profit rather than necessity alone.

 

[Gracey]

special treatment? sort of. Perhaps the opportunity to explain how the world of work may get the very best from us.
An Aspie is honest to a fault, extremely hard working, focused, result orientated and can bring unique perspective. I can't see how that would be a problem the work place...
... until we start to look at things like burn out, external stimuli, social aspects, adaptability, major stresses and so on.

for me, the ability to do the job itself would never be a problem, it's perhaps the workplace, the environment, the unspoken social rules.

 

[The Penguin]

Just because someone hires you with knowledge of such conditions is no guarantee they won't try to terminate you for cause if you're later unable to do the job to their required standards.

This happen to me when I had new management during my 3rd year of employment. I even projected the day they will let me go and I was dead on for this.

My current job have been a bit better. First job I have a greater voice compare to other jobs, I have been ignored.

 

[The Penguin]

Let them find out after the fact...or not at all.

This is what I did about for my LD. I didn't say anything until 6 month of employment. The only reason why because the employer knows I have language issues and wanted to pay for classes for me to improve. By that point, I told them I had language based learning disability as normal English class to improve does not work for me. The only person can help me is someone specialized with my LD and can teach me in a matter that works for me.

The other thing the employer didn't know before and during the time I was employed, I was working with an organization helps people with disabilities. I knew if things went wrong, I could get support to take legal action.

Telling the employer about my LD didn't result me losing my job. I can't promise it will be the same result for someone else.

I always have a back up plan to take legal action when needed. I know many non profit organizations can help me when bad events happens.

 

[Judge]

I always have a back up plan to take legal action when needed. I know many non profit organizations can help me when bad events happens.

Definitely sounds like a plan. I suppose the main thing whether one decides to disclose or withhold their condition is to do so "with eyes wide open" as you did. Well done, William.

 

[zeroninja]

I put down I really don't care either way but this is not a knock at your poll, more of an assessment of the sad state of education and employment anyways. For one, in an ideal world or even just a semi-fair one, the playing field would be even enough that it wouldn't matter - it isn't. For two, most of our "education" here in the US is mostly hogwash, aside from a few basic topics like arithmetic or spelling/grammar, designed to teach us to learn facts and figures by rote, with absolutely no grasp whatsoever on any real world applications, who figured that out and how, or how it correlates to the rest of our realities. And the same goes for employment, only worse. Especially in the lower strata of society, but even upwards a lot higher, it's not what you know but who you know and how "in" with them you are that tends to determine any real advancement. Usually, those doing the most work get paid the least and treated the worst, while Managers, CEO's and so forth sit pretty and get rich off the backs of those people. It only makes it worse in either respect being an Aspie, since we tend to get overemotional or to display our emotions "incorrectly" as per the views of the majority with how to deal with a given situation, to not follow the petty politicking that's supposed to go with these fields of life, or at least not as closely as they do, and to be blunt, or at least mostly very honest, even when it is uncomfortable, or makes us look bad, etc etc...

So while I don't agree here's why": I feel that special concessions is a part of the problem in the first place. In much the same way that modern medicine largely treats symptoms and not causes, we make these concessions as a society for those we know have been deeply wronged or disadvantaged but can't or wont' do anything about it in any real way.

So that's my 2 cents.

 

[Lexa]

It depends on the individual, his strenghts and specificities. Where are his needs?
For people within the same "motor" situation/disability for example, they basically need things to move easier in wheelchair and other "standard" adjustments due to the condition.
For people on the Spectrum, we're all different, some of us can adapt to stuffs, others can have ADHD or dyspraxia, dyslexia, etc in addition...

Some thrive at school, with the better grades but when it comes to work, it's more complicated.

 

[Butterfly88]

Special treatment, no. Accommodations, yes. There's a big difference.

 

[Leelu]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "special treatment" but think that things should be made more friendly for people on the AS, especially in educational settings. I returned to college (a well known private art school in the US) when I was in my late 30's and though I struggled and it took me almost 5 years I did complete my Bachelor of Fine Arts degree.

Having figured out that I'm Aspien since then I now realize what a horrible environment that school was on many levels and why I had SUCH a bad experience there. It is a renovated public transit garage so it's essentially like an airplane hangar; the main hall is where most critiques were held because the powers that be thought it was a way to ensure a multidisciplinary atmosphere. So you're expected to present your work to your classmates, professor and invited critics in a very long, very tall echoing space where there may be 10 other critiques going on at the same time. It's also the main egress so people are coming and going through the same space. In short it was a nightmare for anyone on the AS.

Add to that the school was super competitive and set up for type-A NTs. Being that it was an art school especially I thought they could have done A LOT to improve conditions for everyone. Our semester-end critiques usually ended with me rushing to the last stall of the most secluded ladies' restroom in the building in tears, and I was never the only woman crying alone in a bathroom stall.

I also started getting major panic attacks in my 2nd year there and more than once took the bus all the way to campus only to freak out before entering the big hall and then turn around and go home -- though this was around the 9-11 attacks (and I'm from NY) which didn't help.

I do think that once someone is old enough to be considering careers they're hopefully experienced enough to know what their limitations are and what environments are most comfortable -- or will learn as they go -- so while an employer should ideally be supportive of everyone's work habits they shouldn't necessarily need to make special arrangements for us.

 

[artfull dodger]

I believe in a perfect world, every employer would want his employees to work at thier best, as it would maximize his return on his business. But we all know that doesn't happen in the real world. Some employers are down right discriminating at times. At one factory I worked at, the ear plugs (which bother me as I hate things stuck in my ears) were not enough for the loud enviroment. They refused to let me wear ear muff style hearing protection as it did not fit "thier" imposed sense of normal. However at my current employment, one one of the "big three" automobile companies in the USA. They have been more than accomidating and I have been upfront from the beginning of the hiring process that I am on the spectrum. I will be given ear muff style hearing protection when I have to be in the loud part of the factory. My company provided prescription safety glasses will have a light smoke grey tint to tone down the really bright lighting in the factory and the factory on site doctor who signed off on me, said if I need a quiet place to recoup, I was always welcome to come to medical dept. I work in the materials handling department and drive fork lifts. So I am mostly on my own and do not have to talk to many people if I choose not to. Mike

 

[Jerome]

I was nonverbal when I started school. In the 60's there wasn't any Special Ed classes and no one knew much about ASD, but we had very caring teachers. My teachers were shocked that I could read at a very high level. My first year of school I spent with the Principal going through the dictionary learning to annunciate the words I knew how to read. I was the teachers let up to the Fifth grade. After that I was transferred to a mega

 

[Jerome]

Mega school with 3000 hostile Black kids from competing neighborhoods. It was a terrifying experience and it was sink or swim. Scholastically I did great in school. Socially, I was a dork before the word was invented. I was never treated special after the 5th grade. In high school the counselors wanted me to take college prep classes. I took up graphic arts instead so that I could get a job after high school. We were poor and getting a job was far more important than continuing my education. My vocational training allowed me to land my first job in the printing trades. After 5 years I quit my job to go to college. Long story short, other than grade school I received no special treatment. I was undiagnosed for years. Only recently have I been diagnosed ASD. I let my current employer know. They don't afford me special treatment, but every year they count me among their disabled. This pisses me off because If I hadn't told them they would have never known. With the exception of my treatment for alcoholism and drug addiction, they treat me like everyone else. I realize I am high functioning, but I believe my harsh background forced me into self-sufficiency. In fact, one of my super powers is crisis management. I have a knack for bringing order to chaos!

 

[Servelan]

EMPLOYMENT – This may seem harsh, but I do not believe employers should be required to make special concessions for those on the spectrum. Yes, I have challenges, but they’re not the type like those with physical challenges. Despite my struggles in the workplace over the years, I have learned how to adapt and function in the world so I can hold a job without special privileges or concern that my employer may be viewing me as a possible threat to the safety of others or the integrity of the company.

Many of the jobs for which I have interviewed the question “Are there any special accommodations that you require?” has been asked. Personally, I could not envision saying, “Yes, I’m on the autism spectrum and I have a number of challenges that I expect others to understand and adapt to.” The world is a cold and cruel place, so I personally do not feel it will or should adapt to my “special needs” as one on the spectrum.

If you need accommodation to do your best, how is asking for it any different than someone asking for accommodation for ergonomics because of scoliosis or for access for a wheelchair or any other issue? It's up to the individual as to what they need; not everyone needs accommodation, but if you do need it, ask for it. I wager people are likely to say something like 'there are accommodations you can make that will definitely help, but they are minor issues that don't impact my ability to perform the work'.

 

[pax]

It is a "trick question" and on so many levels. The first thing that comes to mind is to acknowledge the spectrum of autism. That some may always require a degree of support while others may not at all.

Secondly you have to factor in the politics of those who don't support the very concept of a modern welfare state in whole or even in part. Social Darwinism in the 21st century may be construed as intellectually bankrupt, but our reality is that there are still a great many in the body politic who support such notions, which can potentially run completely contrary to the very concept of the wants and needs of a modern welfare state.

And thirdly you have to consider that in most cases all such concerns revolve around the dynamics of a democracy, where majority rule doesn't always ensure "the greatest good for the greatest number". Where it's always possible that those with very different agendas who may legally gain power and attempt to attenuate or even dismantle various aspects of the welfare state.

When you look at it all from this perspective, sadly you realize that those on the spectrum of autism are more or less at the bottom of such a power struggle. Dependent largely on the compassion of others which from time to time may or may not constitute a political majority.

In other words, such considerations are at the mercy of political thought rather than logic. All validated for better or worse by a societal rule of a mathematical majority whether based on ideology, religion, culture, neurology or other considerations.

Modern welfare state. Hmmm.

Couldn't let that one go.

In this country (and I suspect it's worse in the states) when politicians, media and social media bleat about how much taxes are going to welfare, they are usually talking about a) unemployed b) pensioners c) disabled. But this isn't the group getting the bulk of welfare.

The truth is families with kids use a lot more tax dollars : childcare rebate, family tax benefit, school kids bonus, baby bonus, paid parental leave for government employees.

Then there's all the perks for politicians sports people and business. O and that military budget.

I think people need to get real and realise that most accommodations don't actually cost anything - turning down the volume or tone of the phones, a quiet desk away from the cooler/coffee machine /kitchen, flexible hours and break times , adequate notice of schedule changes etc. If working parents can get time off at the drop of a hat, why does someone with different needs get pushed aside? Why can they not see that a little bit of help can go a long way towards productivity,a happy work environment , and in many cases an individual's ability to work and stay off "welfare"

 

[Mr Allen]

Meh, I've been on benefits since I left Residential College over 20 years ago, I've done local College courses in IT and Retail, and even retook GCSE English and passed with an A, I'd do maths but the only available course at Sheffield College is full time and for various reasons I can't do it.

 

[OlLiE]

I think it should be more treated like discrimination then special treatment needs, and the reason I say that is is that there are a lot of jobs out there that aspies can do without the need for special accommodations. The problem is getting access to those jobs in the first place. The resume and interview processes are extremely bias and discriminative towards NT's to the point that most of us just slip through the cracks. If there are to be any special accommodations made. It should be developing an aspie friendly interview and resume process that works for the aspie mindset. That way, employers can see our strengths more then our weaknesses. I think we all can agree that it would be beneficial for us if employers see us as an asset rather then a liability.

on the whole you could possibly right to some extent, i've often heard that in some countries even 'introvertedness' is considered an impediment to having a happy life, very much less so where i live (although its getting that way)

i have seen adds every so often specifically for people on the spectrum because of their perceived strengths (statisticians, quality control, process management, financial analysts, auditors,...)

in my opinion, generalising that the interview system is biased towards NT's is actually biased in and of itself, objectively every job has specific requirements which through the nature of the job may inherently favour an NT or AN. recruiters have a list or requirements and then play 'tick the box' and select the most appropriate candidate. a company is not a social service.

without wanting to generalise (I do not want to be one of those people that implies that if i can, then everyone else can irrespective of their own personal circumstances) i got through school and university without accommodations, and i managed to find interesting work without accommodations, even jobs that would be stereotyped as NT jobs and in all honesty having pushed myself all those years hasn't been good for me and i am now re-evaluating what is should do

also countries are different (cost and availablity of qualitative education, culture, ...), and that may play a role