I'm terrified of taking this step, but I must.

[autism-and-autotune]

Just redirect those emails to your spam folder.

One of my parents is annoying as hell, loud and distressing noises every other day. Unfortunately there is no "redirect to spam button" I can press to get them to stop. And yes I already told them its annoying as hell. I am looking getting into my own place but rent is sky high because of capitalism

I understand your troubles, and hope that soon you are able to have a place of your own.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I am giving advice different than I would for our situation where we had and have no choice but to get a court involved as by law they as parents were entitled to get medical and legal documents for certain court matters here which flairs much my wife's fears and health.

So, we have to get a ruling by the court to prevent them as being legally defined as "interested persons" as they are not interested in her medical, financial, legal and personal well being, but the contrary. They hope for her suffering and have no interest in her health, safety and happiness. We have tons of evidence showing that, and if we succeed it will be the final contact, as they cannot be involved anymore then for future court petitions, and as we cut all contacts off longer ago..

In your case, I admit I think the best way to punish your parents could be to do nothing or to say in one sentence: 'Contact me and/or my fiance again, no matter how nice sounding or brief, I will get a restraining order.' Think of them as potentially going crazy over this lack of information or brief such assertive reply, and being unable to know what more you are thinking and feeling. They are already showing signs of cracking from their last email. By filing such legal paperwork it could give you temporary vindication and relief, but would not you be more mad if they played victim again and/or if the court ruled against you if they saw no serious present danger from them? They would win, in both scenarios.

Now if they do such again, I would reconsider my position, as it is clear then they will have no respect for right verses wrong with regards to leaving you alone. In that case, or right now even, I would get a free consultation with a lawyer first to make sure you have any strong future case. I do not think past abuse and one recent unwanted contact coming to your door may be good enough evidence to get a restraining order. It seems like the evidence must show serious recent violations and harms to you, and likely severe future harm to you without such an order.

Also factor in that any legal action against your parents will likely result in them denying everything and blaming you for everything. How would that resolve your bitterness towards them, even if you win the case? They will tell others that their son filed a crazy restraining order against loving and nurturing father and mother. I am not sure how your parents and you could act in any future court case either. Are they able to turn on and off the charm, or would they likely act ditzy, critical and cold? My wife's parents, despite being former law clerks, acted awful in court against us. Dumb, evasive, unprepared and controlling. That contrasted my nice, respectful, relevant, prepared and polite ways.

So, there are lots of issues to consider. Do you want to take a chance of losing the petition and things being dragged on, with them getting more information during this process where they will likely disrespect your attempts and once again not validate you there, or is it better to show strength by doing the mentioned or by showing you have more patience and control by holding back those impulse desires?

Sometimes the better solution is to not give them the attention and information they crave, if at all possible, and letting them get the hints that way you are not thinking of them anymore and could care less how they feel. The choice is yours obviously as you know the situation more, as you seem to have a harder time displaying abuse details in writing on this forum. Be aware courts need precise details, and it may be forever on public record, which could spread locally. Whatever you choose though I would support your decision, as we would understand the harms such parents can do. Just think all scenarios through.

I'm sorry to hear of all the troubles which plague you right now. Your in-laws sound like horrible, awful people and you and your family deserve better than that.


Hmm...yes. A short, curt something such as "I do not wish to speak with either of you for the time being" may definitely be proper thing. No emotion, no further explanation...but also no threat? This is another detail which causes me stress. Thank you for being detailed in what could go wrong, as it gives me clearer sight. This is definitely good to take into account.

Yeah, it'd be a nightmare to go through this, only to fail if they get control and gaslight everyone. I think a restraining order, at least right now, is definitely not the wisest choice.

And it's so hard because I know that all they want is information. They do not care about me or what I've been through or what they've put me through; they care about the control. Just...blocking them outright, coldheartedly--email, the Facebook, phones---feels most justified. If they can physically abuse me as a child without giving me reason why, then I can remove them from my life without them knowing why.

I wish you and your family the best of luck and strength for your court case.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

So really helpful answers here, and a lot of support. My concern is that you have your paperwork, your *proof*, then you show up and get declined on filing your order of protection as you don't live with them, and they don't control your finances, and finally you don't have police reports to bolster your request. What alot of people are suggesting is going *gray rock*. Where you go no contact. So no matter what they email, send, call, or show up at your door, you don't talk to them. If they show up at your door, and don't leave, call the police, and warn them you are calling the police. Block their phone number. Send their emails to spam. And return their mail back to them unopened. Yes, they harmed you in many ways, and they trigger you and send you into a tunnel of triggers of the trauma you have gone thru. We have many members who are traumatized by moms, dads, siblings. Alot move far away to find closure. Perhaps it's time to find a therapist to deal with years of trauma and neglect, so that you can start living life on *your* terms. This is said in kindness, and l hope you are able to get to some closure, and find your way through the thoughts that you wish to process. Opening up about this took a lot of energy, and sadly pain, but you also are moving towards healing your inner child. If can be quite disturbing to see how much we have been manipulated by those who were supposed to protect us. To move forward,a therapist will you identify these feelings and work with you starting to forgive to move on.

Many of the answers here have been very insightful and helpful.

Your advice for grey-rocking is good to keep in mind. I grey-rock in their presence, but in times like now--the early morning as I respond to all the messages--I'm far from grey-rocking. My mind just won't shut up. I just get so frustrated because all my life I've wanted them to understand me, and to understand how they've hurt me, but because of their own psyches it's impossible. And this block of impossibility makes me want to do rash things. I think that's the real root of the issue.

I hope that I can get closure too. And I'm trying to get a therapist, too--it's another long struggle. The most I can do right now is not go crazy and look inwards more, and read anecdotes and learn from them. I just...want my parents to know so much but also want them to not be involved in my life. Part of me is saying that I want to tell them of my brain problems, and that I'm disappointed in both of them, and to hammer it home that I do not want them in my life because of these things. Either a) they'll actually understand, recognize the same issues with themselves and get help for it, or b) they'll not care an iota. And I know realistically it's more the latter because this is narcissism and enabling we're talking about, and I'm all the more saddened. If nothing will make them understand on an atomic level, then why put all the energy in a worthless task?

If they're still alive and walking then they'll be on my mind because I think of all the things which could be/could've been different. Who knows--maybe I'll think the same once they're under the ground.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I disowned both of my parents and walked away from my whole family in my early 20’s. Even my grandparents and little brother. I finally realized that my dad was absent, and my mother was just an awful person. It was one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do but also the best thing I could have ever done.

Saying goodbye only tells them that you still care. The restraining order says you care and you’re afraid they will try to get you back. It also says that you already know that you’re not strong enough to get away. If I were you, I wouldn’t give them that satisfaction. You owe them nothing…. not even an explanation.

I get a birthday card every year from my mother. 20+ years now. She always puts cash money in it because she knows I won’t give her the satisfaction of cashing her check. I open the card, without reading it, take the cash and shred the card. It’s just an attempt to make me respond and I don’t need to get tricked back into her life.

My advice to you is to just walk away. Block their calls and e-mails. It will take a year or two for them to give up but eventually, hopefully, you will just get a card on your birthday.

Can you describe more the courage it took to make such a decision? maybe I should identify why exactly I'm so avoidant of conflict with them...well, I know it's CPTSD and more, but also more. Ugh.

Yes; having further armor only means I'm more afraid of being exposed.

I remember feeling the satisfaction of shredding the Christmas card they sent after I got my autism diagnosis, and after I learned that my mother left me in debt with the SSA. Nothing felt more terrifying but also satisfying as that.

Hell, I don't even really get cards on birthdays anymore. It doesn't matter.

My tactic is to do the simplest thing which will get the job done, and also give them less fuels to play the victim.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I think a well-rated lawyer is the best equipped to let you in on the laws in your area, what you can do, cannot, what they can do and cannot, what can happen and in what case to act.

Some of the fears you have might be due to a lack of knowledge or understanding of how the dynamics of law work. They will be able to advise you and dismantle any theories that cannot happen, it will help you a lot in decision making, plus they have experience with cases and the law system.

Some of the fears you have about others might disappear too.

I like your advice, too. And yes, a lot of my fears are based on how laws work. I agree that I should be educated more before I jump into something this huge. Thank you

 

[Outdated]

So essentially, blocking them cold with no further knowledge is a best solution?

Yes.

And although you'll be a bit bugged by the lack of closure, consider how mental that's going to drive your mother. There's even a silver lining in a mushroom cloud.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Yes.

And although you'll be a bit bugged by the lack of closure, consider how mental that's going to drive your mother. There's even a silver lining in a mushroom cloud.

Yeah!...yeah. Ah, but what if it drives her insane further?

For example--and to elaborate. This flowerly letter which I got, full of its demands and need to know, could be the lure regarding an SSA debt which was assigned to me, but which she originally was meant to pay back. I'm 'not supposed to know' about it til retirement age, when she's long dead and buried. The SSA assured me that they would reassign the debt to her, as she's retired and getting benefits. I assume very much that this lure is to interrogate me about this and to grill me into submission.

Wait sorry, have I already written about this? Ugh, sometimes this happens with my autism; I'll over-explain to hell and back. Sorry.


But should this be the case, then yes oh yes...it's drive her nuts. Bonkers. Because I'm low on spoons right now and feeling impulsive, it's making me think that I could, unfeelingly, just...block them on a whim. Me feeling guilt right now is the only thing stopping me. And I hate it.

 

[Rodafina]

I don't like hurting people regardless of what they've done to me. At least now in this moment I think that way. Is that fawning?

Being on the lookout for fawning is important (I have this problem, too). But to me, this sounds like breaking the cycle of abuse and respecting your own integrity over the need for revenge.

Hurting those who have hurt us makes sense in a logical way, but the human side of us can tell us differently – to follow our own morals and values and not succumb to perpetuating a cycle of hurt. I respect the sentiments that you share – not wanting to hurt others regardless of how they have treated you.

 

[Hypnalis]

@autism-and-autotune

It's clear to me from this and your "work thread" that there's room for improvement in your "people interaction" skills.
Note that this isn't a criticism - this is true for almost all Aspies - but it's impossible to improve unless you believe there's room for improvement, that improvement is possible, and that there's a tangible benefit from putting in the work.

So you're working in the space between LC and restraining order now, which is a significant step forward.
Next you need to objectively assess your current ability and later potential to manage your parents' behavior.
This will help with planning.

I suggest it's time for you to learn some personal-interaction techniques with a focus on handling narcissists.
I think a good first step would be to open a dedicated thread for it here, because (a) even NT's have difficulty with narcs, and (b) there are probably some personal and Aspie-specific aspects for which an Aspie perspective will be helpful.

On a different angle:
You've probably seen the phrase "Revenge is a dish best served cold" many times, with the usual weird "mafia-centric" meaning attributed to it.

I use it because everyone remembers it, but with a different meaning which I suggest you consider, because it's an important part of handling narcs (and other kinds of annoying people too).

So:
If you try to "exact revenge" (or generally, ruthlessly control other people for your benefit, and without consideration for their interests) while you're angry, you will be visible, predictable, and very prone to errors.
If you wait until you're completely calm, you can plan and prepare. Naturally this increases your chances of success, and reduces the chance you'll get caught.
So that's an (indirect) alternative definition of "served cold".

"Work cold" is a very useful principle for dealing with annoying people and/or for getting your way when dominance games become necessary.

I mentioned a simple technique for creating a response to your mother's email the first time we talked about this, but we didn't follow up. There are simple but useful techniques though.

The point of this:
* There are semi-standard techniques for dealing with narcs ("grey rock" is a set of these)
* There are ways to communicate with difficult people that protect you (a necessary objective). You can't persuade a real narc (because they literally cannot listen) but you can talk to them without taking any damage yourself.
* Narcs are crazy, which means they have "a target on their back" if you know how to look for it. There's no "one strike win" with narcs, but they can be worn down.
* HFA's can learn to better regulate their emotions.
This is actually something like my comment in your "work thread" (paraphrased) "never plan to work over 80% capacity, never actually work over 95%, even if 'the end of the world' has come". That's actually for stress regulation - (IMO) an Aspie should not allow themselves to be controlled by the adrenaline level in their body, because we don't handle it well.
Naturally the same applies when communicating with difficult people. It's much easier to interact with them "cold". and it's always a mistake to get drawn into their craziness.


/lol - this turned into a long post, but I'll add one other thing anyway:

I don't believe in the general applicability of Closure, Validation, and all the other self-therapy terminology that's wormed its way into the vernacular.

You can't achieve mutual closure with a narc. They're crazy. Nor can you negotiate towards their validating your personal concerns. Narcs don't care, and they don't know that they don't care. "Negotiation" with them is a stupid dominance/power game that confers no benefit even if you win.

I won't say you must set aside that stuff while you reconfigure your relationship with your parents, but I can say with reasonable confidence that it's not going to help at all, and it may well make things more difficult.

 

[AspieChris]

why shouldn't I give them proper closure?

It doesn’t sound like they deserve it. Remember, they chose to bring you into this hateful world. You really don’t owe them anything.

 

[All-Rounder]

I appreciate your honesty.

What do I really want? Good question. I want them to know what they did in my childhood was wrong, and to leave me alone. The flowery language in the letter is bait, and nothing more. I've learned better than to take a narcissist at their words. I do not trust them.

Well, if you put it like that...the practical purpose is largely for my own peace of mind. Psychologically I cannot...I guess I just have issues with not giving people closure, regardless. Yes, I can ignore them, and block them, but to have them know why is what is important. If I present all my information with a professional, which cannot be denied or sounding like I'm 'making it all up', then maybe they'll get it.

Maybe this is my way of no longer perpetuating angst and anger. All I've ever wanted from them my whole life is to be heard and understood, but me by myself isn't enough. Letting things go is hard. This whole thing is hard. I cannot 'no longer think' about them until something is actually solid. I understand and hear what you're saying.

I think there might also be hope with therapy, in terms of getting the closure you need, processing what you still have to, etc.

Saying goodbye only tells them that you still care. The restraining order says you care and you’re afraid they will try to get you back. It also says that you already know that you’re not strong enough to get away. If I were you, I wouldn’t give them that satisfaction. You owe them nothing…. not even an explanation.

This is a good point and reminds me of something, on advice for cutting contact. You are practically supposed to say: don't contact me for any reason, I don't want you to come by, I don't need your emails, etc. Anything can be twisted around by someone like that so it's best to make it short and clear if you are going to do any communication. And dont keep replying, cutting contact is about stopping the contact. Eventually they will give up and their emotionality issues and nagging will be lost. Might take years but it's worth it.

 

[All-Rounder]

I like your advice, too. And yes, a lot of my fears are based on how laws work. I agree that I should be educated more before I jump into something this huge. Thank you

Yeah, it can take just 1 session to have a good talk and then make a decision much easier.

People like this prey on lies, misinformation, threats and fear.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

People like this prey on lies, misinformation, threats and fear.

wait, lawyers or narcissists??

 

[Outdated]

You can't achieve mutual closure with a narc. They're crazy. Nor can you negotiate towards their validating your personal concerns. Narcs don't care, and they don't know that they don't care. "Negotiation" with them is a stupid dominance/power game that confers no benefit even if you win.

Although I've heard the word bandied around all my life and it's often used as an insult, it was only recently that I met a true narcissist, someone who is a pathological narcissist.

It took me a long while to understand what was going on, why they started twisting past conversations to have been attacks on their life or their character. And why they started denying that they said things to me, not really very deniable when the conversations were in text messages and could easily be copied and pasted back again. Doing that caused fits of rage and denial of reality.

This person has genuine phsychosis, they're not saying these things or behaving in this way deliberately, they genuinely believe everything they're saying. And anything I try to add to the narrative gets twisted to fit the same delusions. There is no hope of having any form of relationship with this person, it will always turn abusive.

Narcissism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[All-Rounder]

wait, lawyers or narcissists?

The paragraph you quoted was about narcissists. The previous one about lawyers.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

The paragraph you quoted was about narcissists. The previous one about lawyers.

Ah, I see; thanks for clarifying.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Although I've heard the word bandied around all my life and it's often used as an insult, it was only recently that I met a true narcissist, someone who is a pathological narcissist.

It took me a long while to understand what was going on, why they started twisting past conversations to have been attacks on their life or their character. And why they started denying that they said things to me, not really very deniable when the conversations were in text messages and could easily be copied and pasted back again. Doing that caused fits of rage and denial of reality.

This person has genuine phsychosis, they're not saying these things or behaving in this way deliberately, they genuinely believe everything they're saying. And anything I try to add to the narrative gets twisted to fit the same delusions. There is no hope of having any form of relationship with this person, it will always turn abusive.

Narcissism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you for the link.

Yeah, it's a terrifying phenomenon, isn't it? Golly.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I think there might also be hope with therapy, in terms of getting the closure you need, processing what you still have to, etc.


This is a good point and reminds me of something, on advice for cutting contact. You are practically supposed to say: don't contact me for any reason, I don't want you to come by, I don't need your emails, etc. Anything can be twisted around by someone like that so it's best to make it short and clear if you are going to do any communication. And don't keep replying, cutting contact is about stopping the contact. Eventually they will give up and their emotionality issues and nagging will be lost. Might take years but it's worth it.

Yeah. Getting to a therapist is next on my list, but...there's just a lot of moving parts which need to be strapped down in order for me to get one.

Thank you for further suggesting full no-contact. I got the courage and blocked their email addresses last night. I don't remember their cell-phone numbers but I'll block those too when I get the chance.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

It doesn’t sound like they deserve it. Remember, they chose to bring you into this hateful world. You really don’t owe them anything.

The world isn't hateful, but they certainly made it that way. They chose to bring me into the world before working on their mental health and inner demons, and therefore bringing out the anger of their parents onto me. For this I cannot forgive them.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

Being on the lookout for fawning is important (I have this problem, too). But to me, this sounds like breaking the cycle of abuse and respecting your own integrity over the need for revenge.

Hurting those who have hurt us makes sense in a logical way, but the human side of us can tell us differently – to follow our own morals and values and not succumb to perpetuating a cycle of hurt. I respect the sentiments that you share – not wanting to hurt others regardless of how they have treated you.

Yep; fawning is just...for me, the inability to get angry at them. If anything, blocking them would be for my own sanity and need not to be selfish but self-preserving. Revenge...well, I hope I'm past that phase.

Blocking them, I believe, may shock them and perplex them and give them a sense of terror which I feel when contact by them--but it's better than responding to that stupid email. Do I hate them, or do I hate who they are and what they did? shrugs I was shaped by them--the good and the bad--but it's the bad which makes me not want to be with them.

Also, it helps on some days to refer to them in the past tense. I thank the user Outdated for making me think this way.