Favorite Quotes

[wyverary]

"If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough." -Albert Einstein (?)

Incidentally, now that I think of it, this is very similar to something that Richard Feynman said, which seems well-sourced (and correlates with a similar story I heard about him) -

From WikiQuote -

[Feynman] prided himself on being able to devise ways to explain even the most profound ideas to beginning students. Once, I said to him, "Dick, explain to me, so that I can understand it, why spin one-half particles obey Fermi-Dirac statistics." Sizing up his audience perfectly, Feynman said, "I'll prepare a freshman lecture on it." But he came back a few days later to say, "I couldn't do it. I couldn't reduce it to the freshman level. That means we don't really understand it."​

 

[AsIstAga]

"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt

WoW I need to remember that one! Thanks 4 sharing!

This one is just for fun...(I was going to put it on the dating thread, but I'll throw it in here too.)
Big Bang Theory

Sheldon - "Everyone has a date. Even you Mario...chasing after Princess Peach! And what am I doing!? I'm just enabling you..."

 

[zurb]

"If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough." -Albert Einstein (?)

I used to subscribe to this, but now I'm not convinced. Maybe as a generalization, but not as a rule.
What say a visual thinker has to explain in words. What say English is your second language. What say you are paralyzed and can't speak. So many are treated as if they are stupid just because they can't reply. Of course, if we assume this saying is true, it would be reasonable for nurseangela to assume none of us understand aspergers at all either.

 

[gonzerd]

"If you're lonely when you're alone, you're in bad company."
Jean-Paul Sartre

 

[KassieMac]

I used to subscribe to this, but now I'm not convinced. Maybe as a generalization, but not as a rule.
What say a visual thinker has to explain in words. What say English is your second language. What say you are paralyzed and can't speak. So many are treated as if they are stupid just because they can't reply. Of course, if we assume this saying is true, it would be reasonable for nurseangela to assume none of us understand aspergers at all either.

I see the statement as fairly accurate, with the assumption that the people involved are all fluent in the same language ... but now that I understand that I'm Aspie and we are neurologically different, I realize that Aspies and NTs are clearly not fluent in the same languages.

I first heard this many years ago, but here's what brought it up recently:
Therapist states 'xxx'
Me: That's not true
T: I believe 'xxx'
Me: 'xxx' has not been my experience
T: 'xxx'
Me: Why do you believe 'xxx' is true? What is your support for that assertion?
T: 'xxx'
Me: Please explain your assertion 'xxx'
T: I've tried to explain, but clearly I can't explain it in a way that will make sense to you.

She never tried to explain, she just kept repeating her premise; this leads me to believe:
1) She has no tangible support for her belief;
2) She's clinging to it for emotional comfort;
3) She thinks if I believe it too, that will overcome the concrete, tangible obstacles erected by NTs in my life;
4) There's no logic to support either her premise or the belief it will overcome the obstacles in my life;
5) Logic (and my personal experience) directly refute her premise;
6) If she tried to explain it, she'd have to think about it, and she'd see how baseless her assertion is;
7) She desperately needs the emotional comfort it brings, so she will avoid thinking about it at all costs;
8) She resorts to an insulting, demeaning statement that implies that I don't understand, hoping I will stop asking.

I replied that all I need is clear, straightforward, plain English; she changed the subject.

Both of us have American English as our first language, and above-average vocabulary.

I can explain my experience of Aspergers: I rely on logic, most of the world does not (in my experience).

 

[Judge]

Interesting, KassieMac. But was that exchange than a conflict of neurologies or a conflict of egos?

If she was the therapist and you are the patient, it's conceivable that she felt compelled to be right at all times. Otherwise it may fundamentally undermine her entire purpose. Even if she was wrong.

Child: "But why?"
Parent: "Because I say so."

 

[KassieMac]

Interesting, KassieMac. But was that exchange than a conflict of neurologies or a conflict of egos?

If she was the therapist and you are the patient, it's conceivable that she felt compelled to be right at all times. Otherwise it may fundamentally undermine her entire purpose. Even if she was wrong.

Child: "But why?"
Parent: "Because I say so."

Seriously? That's where you want to go with that?

On my side, self-advocacy and basic human rights. She was trying to insist that I take on her belief with no supporting statements. All humans have the right to their own beliefs ... I was not trying to change her belief, I simply asked for her supporting reasons. She had none. I'll buy that it's ego on her side, but you seem to be implying that makes it ok. Are you?

Your example is not relevant to this situation. A parent can tell a child what they need to do, but not what they must believe. Parents are also responsible for the care of their child, so when the parent's inappropriate instruction backfires, the parents are the ones who bear the brunt of their mistakes.

She's not my parent, and I alone bear the responsibility for taking care of myself. The belief she is so desperately clinging to is one that has caused me considerable pain and loss in the past ... both before I began working with her, and also at her instruction. At no time has she (or anyone else) taken responsibility for my resulting pain and loss. Contrary to what the rest of the world believes, I am not an idiot and they cannot coerce me to make the same mistakes again when there is no one to help me out of the resulting consequences.

Her desperate need "to be right at all times" is one of the main reasons I'm currently in this dilemma, and I'm running out of time. To follow the same advice that put me here in the first place would be idiotic.

It may be ego on her side, but I was simply practicing self-defense & self-advocacy.

I've learned (over and over) that letting another's ego overrule my logic and common sense will always lead to my suffering, but it never has any negative impact on the other person. I thought people here would understand that.

 

[Judge]

Seriously? That's where you want to go with that?

Two things. First, it's just a suggestion. A possibility- not necessarily an explantion of what happened. Second and more importantly, we don't know exactly was said. Leaving us only to guess...

But if or when a therapist's ego does come into the equation, how do we deal with it?

Seems to me it's similar to arguing with a traffic cop. I mean, where can you go with that?

 

[KassieMac]

Two things. First, it's just a suggestion. A possibility- not necessarily an explantion of what happened. Second and more importantly, we don't know exactly was said. Leaving us only to guess...

But if or when a therapist's ego does come into the equation, how do we deal with it?

Seems to me it's similar to arguing with a traffic cop.

Another irrelevant comparison. Arguing with a traffic cop has legal ramifications. In my case, following her advice had negative (somewhat-legal) ramifications. And you know enough about what was said ... the belief she was trying to force on me is irrelevant, it's a maguffin. It could be that the moon was made of green cheese. If your therapist told you that you must believe the moon is made of green cheese and refused to support that assertion, would you accept it?

 

[gonzerd]

"If you are looking for sense, don't."
Peace

 

[Judge]

Unless I know precisely what you are referring to it's impossible to really understand what you are getting at. (We don't need to know.) But you must concede that therapists are still people capable of erring on the side of personal ego. That's all.

If that happened, there's not much you can do about it other than hope it doesn't happen again. Or find another therapist. I'm just pointing out that your options whatever they may be appear limited under the circumstances. Thus the legal analogy...

 

[KassieMac]

Unless I know precisely what you are referring to it's impossible to really understand what you are getting at. But you must concede that therapists are still people capable of erring on the side of personal ego. That's all. If that happened, there's not much you can do about it other than hope it doesn't happen again. Or find another therapist.

As I stated, you do know enough about it. And I am well aware that therapists can make mistakes, that was my entire point ... you're the one that was defending her. And I can do far more than hope it doesn't happen again, I can practice self-advocacy, assertiveness, and self-defense. I can refuse to take on a belief that has been proven false (and painful, and costly) to me time and again. The thing I can't do is afford a different therapist. She stated that she's willing to try to understand what it's like to be Aspie, which is more than anyone else in my life ever has ... but when she screws up, the only place I can vent about it is here. Thanks so much for your understanding and compassion.

 

[Loomis]

“Why do you rob banks, Willie?”
“Because that’s where the money is.”

Attributed to the bank robber: Willie Sutton (at least according to legend.)

 

[Judge]

As I stated, you do know enough about it. And I am well aware that therapists can make mistakes, that was my entire point ... you're the one that was defending her.

Oh my goodness, you couldn't have misunderstood me more. I wasn't defending her. Not at all.

Just pointing out that if she employs her ego there's not much recourse you have unless you want to challenge their professional liability. A very bad situation to be in unless you have money to burn.

You won't find any posts by me defending therapists and for good reason.

 

[KassieMac]

Oh my goodness, you couldn't have misunderstood me more. I wasn't defending her. Not at all.

Just pointing out that if she employs her ego there's not much recourse you have unless you want to challenge their professional liability. A very bad situation to be in unless you have money to burn.

You won't find any posts by me defending therapists and for good reason.

Then you understand why I'm not willing to start over with a new one, and probably end up with someone worse. It took me six years to get this one to finally start to listen!

 

[Judge]

Then you understand why I'm not willing to start over with a new one, and probably end up with someone worse. It took me six years to get this one to finally start to listen!

I was limited to one who constantly would interject only to remind me of the limitations of my HMO's mental health coverage.

Would you have spent six years working with that? I gave up when my year's coverage ran out. You had someone who actually listened to you. I didn't. I think she was doing her grocery list as I recanted my life.

You have no idea just how useless the process could be. And that was when I had coverage back then....long ago.

Maybe your answer isn't with therapists at all. Mine wasn't. IMO I learned more here than under the supervision of any professional. No doubt that would chaff the hide of many a professional medical ego as well.

 

[KassieMac]

I was limited to one who constantly would interject only to remind me of the limitations of my HMO's mental health coverage.

Would you have spent six years working with that? I gave up when my year's coverage ran out. You had someone who actually listened to you. I didn't. I think she was doing her grocery list as I recanted my life.

You have no idea just how useless the process could be. And that was when I had coverage back then....long ago.

Oh, I really do. That's probably what she was doing for the first 5.5 years. I'm just determined that she will help me get my diagnosis ... for all the time & stress I've invested, she owes me at least that much.

 

[Judge]

Oh, I really do. That's probably what she was doing for the first 5.5 years. I'm just determined that she will help me get my diagnosis ... for all the time & stress I've invested, she owes me at least that much.

Are we on the same page NOW? What a case of preaching to the choir! I wish I could laugh, but we both know it's not a laughing matter. For me what they took can never be returned. But I agree, they owe us something. I'm just not holding my breath myself.

If I ever do seek a formal diagnosis, I will be damned particular about who goes about it. Now people here will know why. There are good professionals out there...I just didn't connect with any of them in the past.

 

[KassieMac]

I was limited to one who constantly would interject only to remind me of the limitations of my HMO's mental health coverage.

Would you have spent six years working with that? I gave up when my year's coverage ran out. You had someone who actually listened to you. I didn't. I think she was doing her grocery list as I recanted my life.

You have no idea just how useless the process could be. And that was when I had coverage back then....long ago.

Maybe your answer isn't with therapists at all. Mine wasn't. IMO I learned more here than under the supervision of any professional. No doubt that would chaff the hide of many a professional medical ego as well.

Very true. But one thing I've learned is that NTs are far more willing to accept statements from other NTs (in my experience). Since she's agreed to help me speak with my doctors that are even more resistant, that may help ... but in the meantime I'm having to combat all the incorrect assumptions about Aspies. Basically, I'm counseling her on how to communicate with Aspies. And it's exhausting. So while technically she's my therapist I'm actually using her as my advocate and as my Aspie-to-NT interpreter ... and since she's starting with absolutely zero knowledge and experience, I'm also acting as her mentor.

Now that I know I'm Aspie, and I've found others like me, I don't need therapy or antidepressants anymore ... but first I need to get my diagnosis on paper, and I'm not letting her off the hook until that happens.

 

[Judge]

Now that I know I'm Aspie, and I've found others like me, I don't need therapy or antidepressants anymore ... but first I need to get my diagnosis on paper, and I'm not letting her off the hook until that happens.

It's an investment you're determined to make pay off. That I really understand.

But until it happens I hope you don't have to pay too high a price in frustration just getting there.