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Empathy - Do you feel it?

I'm learning to emulate empathy, haven't quite got it down but can fool people on a basic level.

However, I wouldn't say that I don't feel empathy. If NTs are struggling with something I do actually empathize. I do understand people's thoughts and feelings. I can put myself in their position. However, I mostly just think they are being pathetic. So I wonder if maybe I am capable of empathy but not sympathy.
 
Hello @SusanLR, note that in my post I stated that "telepathy" is an analogy, not a definition. I stressed use of the analogy because it was used in the first post of this thread.

I would really like some article or input by neuroscientists that say Conscious Drive is not an intellectual process.
"Conscious Drive" is a layperson phrase, not a scientific phrase. I would not use it as a search phrase. The original post was quoting from a non-scientific blog:
Cognitive empathy is the largely conscious drive to recognize accurately and understand another's emotional state.


You can find other neuroscience research on AS population samples by following the links in this paper: Affective and cognitive empathy in adolescents with autism spectrum disorder. For clarity, "affective" empathy is equivalent to emotional empathy.
 
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Hello @SusanLR, note that in my post I stated that "telepathy" is an analogy, not a definition. I stressed use of the analogy because it was used in the first post of this thread.


"Conscious Drive" is a layperson phrase, not a scientific phrase. I would not use it as a search phrase. The original post was quoting from a non-scientific blog:



You can find other neuroscience research on AS population samples by following the links in this paper: Affective and cognitive empathy in adolescents with autism spectrum disorder. For clarity, "affective" empathy is equivalent to emotional empathy.

My point was more that is not innate as you stated but taught.

Conscious drive was just a term someone used which tried to illustrate the aspect of being 'cognitive' ie it was more conscious than other forms of empathy.

It's the meaning of the whole phrase not the terminology,

Those with asd are necessarily more conscious of social rules - in some respects . When they start the journey of trying to find out what they are misunderstanding. They have to try and be super aware of other positions in order to avoid social consequences.
This is what I am meaning by cognitive empathy, that which is consciously developed and learnt . A neuroscientist will obviously approach from a different angle.

For those ''taught' empathy at a young age -
Are they taught affective empathy,cognitive empathy or both?

Which of these is more ''innate' (your term) ?


When you translate a foreign language you translate whole sentences rather than individual words.
This would be far more helpful in terms of a contribution.
 
For those ''taught' empathy at a young age -
Are they taught affective empathy,cognitive empathy or both?

"Scripts" are taught to mimic both affective/emotional and cognitive empathy. The degree to which it is learned depends entirely on the individual affective/cognitive neurology.

AS children are taught scripts to navigate social norms, and over time learn how to observe situations, books, movies, or existing relationships so as to add scripts to their repertoire. Using scripts consciously and subconsciously is intellectualising the other person's perspective.

Which of these is more ''innate' (your term)?

Both are innate if the neurology for both is intact, as it is in the non-AS population. Again, effectiveness of scripts depend on individual neurology on the spectrum. If not, there is no plasticity that can compensate because the wiring simply isn't there.

Non-AS don't rely on scripts. Their socialisation is a multifaceted conditioning that includes "cognitive empathic" experience.

Neurology of empathy systems is what differentiates AS from no-AS.

When you translate a foreign language you translate whole sentences rather than individual words. This would be far more helpful in terms of a contribution.

This remark of yours is unnecessarily combative. I have put more thought into writing these posts than you seem to discern, let alone acknowledge. If information is lost in translation, it isn't necessarily because what I wrote, searched, and sourced is unhelpful.

That's all.
 
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This remark of yours is unnecessarily combative. I have put more thought into writing these posts than you seem to discern, let alone acknowledge. If information is lost in translation, it isn't necessarily because what I wrote, searched, and sourced is unhelpful

Are you serious?

You want a cookie or something?

Thought you had some understanding of asd.

This is very far from the abruptness max that asd can be.

This last post of yours was fare more helpful and yet..
And certainly more helpful to more people.

'that is all'

Maybe you read things wrong sometimes, Imo my post being one example.

BTW you put more thought into the last post. The original posts necessitated a further query from me as I felt a further push to clarity may be helpful.
After all, you are in the position to help,in some respects,with your subject of study .
 
I have diffecult with empathy as well, getting myself to see it from another persons perspective is difficutl to me, I don't know what other people think. I can't comford people I find it hard I would rather run the other way...I don't think I connect with other humans feelings, I cry to movies yes, but I am not crying over the news, I am actually very cold when it comes to human trackedy, but when it comes to animals all my feelings are up and running I get mad I get sad I get happy I get frustrated...but to me other humans are hard I think...Sorry for my spelling :'(
 
Yes, I do have it and feel it, regardless of what any "experts" say. I'm not going to do the impossible and understand another person's perspective perfectly and flawlessly, and I bet that's the case with a lot of people regardless of their neurology. I mean, really? If everyone were that flawless at it, how many problems would there be? How am I supposed to fully understand someone without having been in their shoes for the course of their life? Pretty sure a lot of people can sway towards the extremes too: too much of it or a true lack of it. I'm not one of those types, so any myths of being a cold, unfeeling, apathetic piece of flesh are just that. Myths.

Sucking at it or not doing it right doesn't mean that I lack it altogether. I don't know how hard that is for people to understand.
 
I have diffecult with empathy as well, getting myself to see it from another persons perspective is difficutl to me, I don't know what other people think. I can't comford people I find it hard I would rather run the other way...I don't think I connect with other humans feelings, I cry to movies yes, but I am not crying over the news, I am actually very cold when it comes to human trackedy, but when it comes to animals all my feelings are up and running I get mad I get sad I get happy I get frustrated...but to me other humans are hard I think...Sorry for my spelling :'(

I can get that way with music; even to the point of tears. However, if I watch TV and it's something like a true murder show I don't even blink. I've had a family member ask me to change the channel because the subject matter was upsetting and I really didn't understand what she was talking about. Of course, murders and brutal violence can be upsetting to many people, it just didn't register that it could be until I was told. I've also known people who can't watch the news if a hurricane or something like that comes on.

It's the frame of reference that gives me the most trouble.
 
I can get that way with music; even to the point of tears. However, if I watch TV and it's something like a true murder show I don't even blink. I've had a family member ask me to change the channel because the subject matter was upsetting and I really didn't understand what she was talking about. Of course, murders and brutal violence can be upsetting to many people, it just didn't register that it could be until I was told. I've also known people who can't watch the news if a hurricane or something like that comes on.

It's the frame of reference that gives me the most trouble.

I get you ^^ ...but to me if it is sad news about animals or animals in needs I cry and I get mad, I can't see the comecials from WSPA and orginisations like that...But humans getting killed and so I don't blink at all it is just like oh well...

I was once watching the movie Platoon and my dad actually got really mad at me for watching it because he couldn't handle all the bad things in the movie...well I only watched the movie because of Johnny Depp actually lol, but movies with animals I can't watch them at all ...I am scared from beginning to end, because I keep thinking oh no was the animal hurt doing the filming and things like that...
 
Prior to understanding Aspergers, I had always felt that I lacked empathy. I attributed this to stories I heard growing up related to friends and acquaintances of my parents who had contracted or fell victim to ailments, diseases, or conditions that were devastating to the person and/or their families. I had thought that by hearing these stories I developed a sense that these horrible conditions can happen to anyone at anytime. I concluded that personal disasters are a part of life.

When I hear bad news about someone, I don't have any natural reaction to rush to their side to console them. I don't know how words can fix the shock or worry that the person is experiencing. This makes me believe that I don't feel empathy, though in my head I know that the situation is weighing heavily on the victim. If words come naturally to me, I know they are genuine. I find myself not showing empathy because I don't know what to say or do to make the pain any easier. I have a desire to make the pain go away, but I am aware that I can't do that. I may be over-interpreting what empathy is by having to translate my inner feelings into words in an effort to fix the problem. Perhaps it is my presence alone that can be the empathy the person may need or want. My words can't fix anything, but being by their side could offer a bit of comfort. If I can offer comfort, then I must have empathy.
 
I have very strong empathy for animals, but given my frustrations and anger for humanity as a whole I only have a little empathy for most humans. Although supposedly I'm an empath and can at times suddenly feel what other people are feeling, but I think that's different.
 
This is such an interesting topic to me. Several years ago I was obsessed with this idea of empathy, because I also had serious doubts that it really exists in the way that people talk about it (as a defining human characteristic, but also talked about like it's a superpower).

I think there are sub-types worth distinguishing. For example, I do not like to see videos of other people getting hurt-- I do have an immediate visceral response to this, like cringing from seeing someone's leg break. But I don't know that this is separate from my ability to imagine that happening to myself. I don't think I'd have the same reaction from watching an unconscious person get hurt in a similar way (say, during a surgery)-- does this mean my reaction is empathetic, since it depends on the other person's *feeling* that emotion, and not on just what is happening to their body? Again, can't tell-- watching a surgery, if it were happening to me I'm aware I wouldn't feel pain either.

The main thing I didn't understand (and was skeptical about) is that I think people do react based on their own imagined responses to things. If you say "my Mom died last night" and another person reacts with extreme sadness, but it turns out you had an abusive mom and you were glad she died-- then that's NOT empathy! They are not sensing and responding to your emotions like some sort of magic, they're just imagining their own emotions.

So I suspected that this construct of empathy is a sort of circle-jerk. People have lots of similar emotional experiences (e.g. getting sad if your mom dies), so they feel like it's some sort of superpower when they "pick up on" someone else's emotion in some situation (so this is more like a "situational empathy"). But lots of people who consider themselves super empathetic are also giant hypocrites-- they don't _empathize_ with someone's *lack* of emotion about something, but criticize it. Person 1: "my cat died last night". Person 2: "Oh I am so sorry :(" Person 1: "It's OK, pet cats are frequently hit by cars, it is to be expected of having a pet." Person 2: YOU MONSTER. There is no empathy in that exchange. This one I experience fairly often, when people I tell something to have an emotional reaction to something that happened to me, that is way stronger than my own-- just a projection of how they themselves would feel.

A different meaning people use (more like emotion _recognition_): can I *tell* someone is sad by looking at their face? Sometimes. But does looking at a sad face make me feel sad? No, not really-- not without knowing something about why they are sad and having that "imagined" response. It might make me feel *something* (maybe like concern) if it's someone I like, but definitely not sad-- not *the same thing* they are experiencing. For example, if someone looks sad over something I think is stupid, that does not make me (or I think anyone else in the world!) feel sad. If someone starts crying because the ketchup ran out at a restaurant, I am certain these uber-empaths don't feel sad about it either-- they think it's a stupid reaction too.

Another hypocrisy-- these uber-empaths only do this to people they already like, who are in their in-group! People can happily walk by hungry, worried, anxious homeless people without feeling hungry, worried, or anxious. And mental health awareness wouldn't be such a problem if people *actually* had the sorts of empathy they say they do!

I think I started going into a rant there, sorry. Anyway, I share your skepticism about the whole idea.
 

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