Do you often find NTs illogical or unreasonable?

[OlLiE]

Let's say a rule is, "When we turn on the fan, it blows cold air." Does logical thought mean we should expect that to always occur?" If past experiences have said sometimes the house fan did not turn on, because of a faulty wire, or that the air conditioning fan in the car by mistake blows out hot air instead on hot days, then it seems not irrational to question the stated rule. Maybe I am using bad logic. I am not sure.

In statistical analysis, 100% certain outcome is rare in real life. It also makes things unworkable to require 100% predictability. In real life, we are forced to use acceptable margins of error which change in function of the necessity of the rule. If the fan works 99% of the time, the working assumption is that it will always work until it doesn't. You can't function by continuously focusing on the 1% and assuming it could stop at any time. That would be inefficient use of your time and energy. The consequences of a fan not working are generally not that worrisome. The cost of a fan is also generally such that it is easer to buy a new one than worry about one the fact that the current one is broken. Low probability of failure, low negative consequence of failure, easily solvable at an acceptable cost of time, energy and money > 'it will always work' is acceptable operational logic to me. Well that is how my logic works anyway

 

[OlLiE]

Ok, thanks for explaining. I guess the issue we have with our son Aaron is that although he likes rules, he cannot make exceptions without getting upset. He expects a rule to always be a rule. Like if we say, "Aaron we have to leave the park at 8pm," he expects that to happen. But, there was a day it started raining hard at around 7:50 pm, and he wanted to stay ten more minutes, saying "That was the rule." Maybe this is just his literal side speaking. We do support him for following rules, so we never get upset at him for such. It just is very hard for him to deviate from rules. Sometimes this will work in his favor, and sometimes not.

I'm a bit of a 'rules' kind of person as well. An insight about myself and rules however is that it's not actually the 'rule' in se that i need, its the predictability of process. I constantly have to manage my energy levels to deal with stimuli: going outside, being in groups of people outside, dealing with unwelcome noise, speaking to individuals in shops, talking or doing something with my girlfriend etc etc. Rules make all of these situation manageable by managing and limiting my exposure. My day ultimately exists of rules and processes and circumstance management that allow to NOT be stimulated. However when someone significantly messes up my plans in the morning, consuming my stimulus budget for the day, the rest of my day becomes unmanageable for and i feel trapped as i can't escape my obligations but no longer have the energy to deal with them.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

In statistical analysis, 100% certain outcome is rare in real life. It also makes things unworkable to require 100% predictability. In real life, we are forced to use acceptable margins of error which change in function of the necessity of the rule. If the fan works 99% of the time, the working assumption is that it will always work until it doesn't. You can't function by continuously focusing on the 1% and assuming it could stop at any time. That would be inefficient use of your time and energy. The consequences of a fan not working are generally not that worrisome. The cost of a fan is also generally such that it is easer to buy a new one than worry about one the fact that the current one is broken. Low probability of failure, low negative consequence of failure, easily solvable at an acceptable cost of time, energy and money > 'it will always work' is acceptable operational logic to me. Well that is how my logic works anyway

Also, the rule, in general life....

When things start to go wrong for you the first thing you do is turn off the fans

(Before the sh** hits it)

 

[OlLiE]

Also, the rule, in general life....

When things start to go wrong for you the first thing you do is turn off the fans

(Before the sh** hits it)

Although it may be interesting to observe the spray pattern depending on the consistency of said sh*t, if it's not in your house of course, sounds like great myth buster idea , could also be an idea for an art exhibition: 'musings of poo, an exercise in colours and randomness'

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Although it may be interesting to observe the spray pattern depending on the consistency of said sh*t, if it's not in your house of course, sounds like great myth buster idea , could also be an idea for an art exhibition: 'musings of poo, an exercise in colours and randomness'

There was a french artist who ate only certain foods, so he could 'collect' the right colors for his paintings.
Maybe we'd use his house...

 

[WereBear]

I don't mind that people make emotional decisions, i do have a problem with people pretending to themselves that they are being logical.

Oh, that is me all over.

But I remind myself they know this. They prefer Denial, that's all. And I restrain myself from pointing it out.

 

[Calibar]

Just wanted to point out that if emotions/desires are taken out you will be unable to use logic to justify your behavior.

E.g. why are we posting on this site? For me and many others the argument might be something as follows:
P1) I enjoy posting here. (emotional premise)
P2) There are no overriding desires to me posting here.
P3) There are no moral concerns about me posting here.
P4) For all x if I enjoy doing x and there are no overriding desires to me doing x and there are no moral concerns about me doing x then I would do x.
C1) If I enjoy posting here and there are no overriding desires to me posting here and there are no moral concerns about me posting here then I would post here. [P4 universal instantiation]
C2) I would post here. [P1, P2, P3 conjunction; C1 Modus Ponens]

Emotion and logic are not opposites, they are different classes of things. Emotions provide premises and logic is used to draw concussions based on premises. The problems with emotion as mentioned can arise in wishful thinking, when we go from a desire to a factual claim. E.g. I want this to be true therefore it is true.

There is nothing wrong with satisfying one's emotions. In fact, if we count morality as part of emotion/desire (avoiding guilt) I would say there is no alternative motivator for behaviour.

 

[Suzanne]

Your thread came up again and although I have already answered, just thought I would add this.

Hubby: I did not say that. Me: well if you did not say that, then please explain why I went to all that trouble to disapprove what you said etc? Silence from hubby. Conclusion: he did say, but realised he shouldn't have and felt too prideful to admit it and so, tries to bluff his way through; but trouble is, wife is too logical lol

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Your thread came up again and although I have already answered, just thought I would add this.

Hubby: I did not say that. Me: well if you did not say that, then please explain why I went to all that trouble to disapprove what you said etc? Silence from hubby. Conclusion: he did say, but realised he shouldn't have and felt too prideful to admit it and so, tries to bluff his way through; but trouble is, wife is too logical lol

I havr the t shirt for,that scenario. But i dpnt always figure it out till too late!

 

[Pondering]

Maybe it's just me, but I've met a lot of NTs who can give me a run for my money (so to speak) when it comes to logic and reasoning. I don't think it depends on being on the spectrum or not. I think it has more to do with a variety of factors in the individual: whether or not they're easily emotionally persuaded (pathos) and their ability and desire to analyze (break apart facts to determine their credibility, and make an informed opinion on whether or not a line of reasoning makes sense, and to understand what it implies about everything else). It's surprising how many people aren't creative with their logic (can't think outside the box with logic). I mean that if they thoroughly think it through and take the time to closely examine truths, and use logic, reason, and the patterns of evidence, then they can determine the validity of various facts, and uncover many hidden truths - truths that may be unpleasant, harsh even. Some people may be in denial because they don't want it to be true. Not everyone knows how to separate their emotions from facts, so they can't see truths for what they are. It is a learned skill. And not everyone enjoys thinking on that level for extended periods of time. Also, as many of the comments are saying: people can rationalize almost anything in their minds. If they want something to be true, they can use anything to convince themselves that it is true.

 

[Blue]

Yes, I frequently feel that way.

 

[pjcnet]

Yes and to the extreme people have even compared my logic to Mr. Spock lol:

 

[Mr Allen]

 

[Suzanne]

I havr the t shirt for,that scenario. But i dpnt always figure it out till too late!

Experience has taught me. Because there was one point, that I would not be able to talk about it logically, because it just was a sensation of something is not right here, but my husband has never changed and so, I can "grow" and "learn" how to "argue" back with logic.

 

[WildCat]

No, but maybe that's because I don't have high standards in the first place. Temperamental? Noisy? Something else? Maybe, but then any of those traits (along with "illogical" and "unreasonable") can be applied to anyone at any given time. Throw me in those groups too with my supposedly superior genetics and remarkable, flawless brain.

Also, try getting by in life on logic alone and tell me how that works out. I don't remember this planet being the USS Enterprise.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

No, but maybe that's because I don't have high standards in the first place. Temperamental? Noisy? Something else? Maybe, but then any of those traits (along with "illogical" and "unreasonable") can be applied to anyone at any given time. Throw me in those groups too with my supposedly superior genetics and remarkable, flawless brain.

Also, try getting by in life on logic alone and tell me how that works out. I don't remember this planet being the USS Enterprise.

And even then you were second in command
And everyone laughed at you all the time