do you / how do you experience mindblindness?

[bbc-bananasplit]

question is: how do you experience mindblindness? - if you do experience it.

> mindblindness: if one is not familiar with this term; it means that you have a problem with mentalizing. quote wiki: In psychology, mentalization is the ability to understand the mental state, of oneself or others, that underlies overt behaviour. Mentalization can be seen as a form of imaginative mental activity that lets us perceive and interpret human behaviour in terms of intentional mental states (e.g., needs, desires, feelings, beliefs, goals, purposes, and reasons)
it helps to understand nonverbal signals, to relate to people, be social, to figure out what others feel and think, to take somebody else's perspective...

as for me: the greatest part of my life i have been a 100% mindblind - it's changing a little bit now, i'm practicing. before that: i only see people 'from the outside'. i can hardly imagine another mind than my own; therefore i can't really imagine what other minds are like - except they are like mine - yet they must be different due to presenting a behaviour i am not familiar with. i have no clue what somebody might feel or think - except he/she expresses this in a very obvious way; i have no idea what someone will do next and why he/she does this or that; nor which information i share with others / which information is exclusive to me - i tend to expect everybody to know what i know; as if we were a global synchronized system.

 

[xudo]

This is something I have a lot of trouble with. I can usually cover it though because I only really see the same few people and they're used to the way I am.

Unrelated note, I find the font you are using very hard to read.

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

Unrelated note, I find the font you are using very hard to read.

sorry about that - it is my usual at home. i am probably addicted to it =) - i will change it immediately

 

[kay]

This is a topic I discussed with my boyfriend the other night. Well actually we discussed mid-blindness/empathy/sympathy. He's an NT of sorts Anyhoo, he doesn't believe that anyone can truly feel another's pain. He thinks it's disrespectful to think that anyone can really ever know what someone else is feeling and thinking. It's their pain, he says, and you should feel bad for them but know that you are not going to fully understand them any more than they will understand you. And my boyfriend is a very kind, nurturing type. I agree with him and think that nobody out there is all so empathetic and truly knowing what it is to be another person. Someone may cry and someone else may then feel bad, too, but it won't be the same as them at all. It will be our way of feeling bad. That's all I think anyone can do. So everybody is actually "mind-blind".

I often miss what's going on with others because too much is going on. Or sometimes, like at a funeral, there is too much sad and I just sorta freeze up. And sometimes I'm just too self involved. Not liking to admit that, and not meaning to be that way, but it happens. Hard to think properly when your own stuff feels so big.

Don't know if anything I said made sense.

 

[toothless]

i am unable to seperate myself from other people and i think everyone is thinking the same sht as me,i also think people feel the same as me.
i struggle greatly with mindblindness.

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

This is a topic I discussed with my boyfriend the other night. Well actually we discussed mid-blindness/empathy/sympathy. He's an NT of sorts Anyhoo, he doesn't believe that anyone can truly feel another's pain. He thinks it's disrespectful to think that anyone can really ever know what someone else is feeling and thinking. It's their pain, he says, and you should feel bad for them but know that you are not going to fully understand them any more than they will understand you. And my boyfriend is a very kind, nurturing type. I agree with him and think that nobody out there is all so empathetic and truly knowing what it is to be another person. Someone may cry and someone else may then feel bad, too, but it won't be the same as them at all. It will be our way of feeling bad. That's all I think anyone can do. So everybody is actually "mind-blind".

I often miss what's going on with others because too much is going on. Or sometimes, like at a funeral, there is too much sad and I just sorta freeze up. And sometimes I'm just too self involved. Not liking to admit that, and not meaning to be that way, but it happens. Hard to think properly when your own stuff feels so big.

Don't know if anything I said made sense.

it does make sense. and your boyfriend is quite right, i guess. we are somewhat forced to be only ourselves and nobody else. yet, there is something - it seems to me - that NTs can do that many aspies cannot do, or cannot do just as well. i relate in terms of beeing self-involved. sometimes someone literally has to wake me up =P

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

i am unable to seperate myself from other people and i think everyone is thinking the same sht as me,i also think people feel the same as me.
i struggle greatly with mindblindness.

i agree... same here. i've had so many problems because of that...

 

[kay]

it does make sense. and your boyfriend is quite right, i guess. we are somewhat forced to be only ourselve and nobody else. yet, there is something - it seems to me - that NTs can do that many aspies cannot do, or cannot do just as well. i relate in terms of beeing self-involved. sometimes someone literally has wake me up =P

I call that thing NTs do "herding mechanism". It's actually not so good a thing. It's why Nazi Germany happened. But I don't think it's mind reading or empathy.

It's an odd ability. I have been at political rallies and everyone is so good at raising the signs in unison. I've watched a herd of about 100 teens suddenly take off, with no obvious cue, and all race in unison around the block to see a fight. It's a herding thing, like the way birds fly and fish swim together and zebras run together.

Whatever that is, the herding thing, that is something I have none of at all. I have empathy, I feel have sympathy, and I can try to imagine(and that's all it is)what others go through. But I don't herd.

Anyhoo, that's my idea about NTs and what they have that I don't. Nothing scientific, just observation.

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

I call that thing NTs do "herding mechanism". It's actually not so good a thing. It's why Nazi Germany happened. But I don't think it's mind reading or empathy.

It's an odd ability. I have been at political rallies and everyone is so good at raising the signs in unison. I've watched a herd of about 100 teens suddenly take off, with no obvious cue, and all race in unison around the block to see a fight. It's a herding thing, like the way birds fly and fish swim together and zebras run together.

Whatever that is, the herding thing, that is something I have none of at all. I have empathy, I feel have sympathy, and I can try to imagine(and that's all it is)what others go through. But I don't herd.

Anyhoo, that's my idea about NTs and what they have that I don't. Nothing scientific, just observation.

concerning the herding mechanism - that is exactly what i always thought, too. it seems as if i am not connected to 'the grid' - i simply do not move or act when everbody else is moving or acting.

 

[EditTim]

This is an interesting subject for me.
Growing up, and for years after, I thought everyone felt the same way, received stimulus the same way, etc, and only recently realized that no, that's simply not the case.
Regarding empathy in particular, in situations where that is an appropriate reaction (i.e., hearing about a friend's or co-worker's health problems), I've always had something flood my system physically, like anxiety, but I didn't really know what is was, or how I should react behaviorally. After years and years of self-reflection, as well as my own personal difficulties (product of divorce, broken neck at age 20, inability to keep relationships going, etc.) something started to change.
The weird associations I've always made started to associate that "feeling" that flooded my system to what we describe as empathy, somehow. Now these feeling are stronger than ever (I'm 47). I can literally imagine myself in my friend's or co-worker's proverbial shoes as though I was going through it too, and feel what I would feel in that context. Now if I read or watch something even remotely sad, it's waterworks for me. I never used to be like that.
Like Kay said in her conversations with her NT boyfriend, nobody can actually feel what it's like to be someone else, or think like they do. One can imagine oneself, in someone else's situation/predicament.
So, I guess those of us on the spectrum have difficulty understanding that others don't think/react to situations the same way. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here, lol.

 

[kay]

This is an interesting subject for me.
Growing up, and for years after, I thought everyone felt the same way, received stimulus the same way, etc, and only recently realized that no, that's simply not the case.
Regarding empathy in particular, in situations where that is an appropriate reaction (i.e., hearing about a friend's or co-worker's health problems), I've always had something flood my system physically, like anxiety, but I didn't really know what is was, or how I should react behaviorally. After years and years of self-reflection, as well as my own personal difficulties (product of divorce, broken neck at age 20, inability to keep relationships going, etc.) something started to change.
The weird associations I've always made started to associate that "feeling" that flooded my system to what we describe as empathy, somehow. Now these feeling are stronger than ever (I'm 47). I can literally imagine myself in my friend's or co-worker's proverbial shoes as though I was going though it too, and feel what I would feel in that context. Now if I read or watch something even remotely sad, it's waterworks for me. I never used to be like that.
Like Kay said in her conversations with her NT boyfriend, nobody can actually feel what it's like to be someone else, or think like they do. One can imagine oneself, in someone else's situation/predicament.
So, I guess those of us on the spectrum have difficulty understanding that others don't think/react to situations the same way. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here, lol.

I always thought everyone heard noises the same, were hurt by bright lights the same and so never understood why they didn't freak out. Figured I should be able to be like other people. And they in turn do the same with me and can't figure out how fireworks and balloon popping could cause me any distress.

Weird how as we get older it's easier to feel like crying because of others. I'm still mostly a deer in the headlights about emotional stuff, but not as much as I used to be.

 

[Southern Discomfort]

I don't actually, I think I have a very good idea of what other people are thinking.

My problem is that I don't know if I'm coming across to another person in the way I want to, I don't want to appear arrogant or patronising but apparently sometimes I can.

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

I don't actually, I think I have a very good idea of what other people are thinking.

My problem is that I don't know if I'm coming across to another person in the way I want to, I don't want to appear arrogant or patronising but apparently sometimes I can.

indeed. many times i've had the frustrating experience that i thought i was being nice; or that i was getting along well with some people, at least - only to learn later on that i was behaving rude, or in an irritating way, or in an inexplicable way or... i don't really have a feel for how i appear to others, nor do i have a feel for expressing my own feelings or reading those of others in what they say and do. it is oblivious to me, so i tend to guess and say the most likely... tough it is difficult to see if guessed right or wrong. sadly, this makes making friends a business vof anxiety and rejection.

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

yet, the most interesting thing is that i have spent four months trying to figure how to explain the difference [and the reason for it] between NT and AS - and that during these four months i have figured out how to think they way NTs do, while staying AS - to some degree, at least.
that is to say, i learnt mentalizing, more by chance - or turning from mindblind to mindread [takes some effort, but practice does it]. it was amazing, as it solved have of may AS-problems in one go - especially anxiety. also, perception of self and self-reflection, mental coordination of thought, executive functions improved. i guess, it will prove antipsychotic as well.
i'm able now of putting myself into somebody else's shoes; plus experiencing some real connective empathy [although it doesn't mean, i started herding^^]. no, i can now relate my feelings to others quite well if try, and as i can imagine the viewpoints/perspectives/feelings/thoughts of others, if i concentrate, it helps reduce misunderstanding of nonverbal signals. well, but it still isn't standard procedure - i still have to focus on doing it, and sometimes i don't manage. but it's something

i was just wondering if should explain how to? i guess, one would hardly ever find out [except one is lucky enough to have never suffered this deficit] if one didn't know how to or what to try specifically [or is this no matter of interest?]

 

[Kirsty]

Unrelated note, I find the font you are using very hard to read

Agreed.

 

[Full Steam]

Very interesting.

I can feel what I imagine others feel, and with charcters in films I'll be very close to them emotionally. I hate embarrassing scenes as I hate to feel embarrassed, and I can't laugh at embarrassing comedy as I feel embarrassed not amused.

I have been think about about a few things that seem odd that may be related though.

I used to think my parents knew everything about me and could read my mind, at least until late teenage years, maybe longer.

One of the reasons why I dislike prolonged eye contact is that it feels like people are looking into my soul, and all motives and thoughts are laid bare.

I can easily communicate with great empathy with people that are on, or are close to the spectrum, but people without a glimmer of colour seem to have an impenetrable inner wall, and I don't understand them well.

I can appreciate and empathise with people in person, but if I'm hearing about the same persons problems second hand I cannot. I almost don't care, except I do really. I'll often think somewhat callously about people's problems second hand in a way I never would in person.

I'm a mystery to myself, and applying concepts to my autism experience is extremely difficult.

I recenty discovered the bad feelings I get are not just stress, but a mix of depression, anxiety and a bit of stress, and I can now tell them apart, but I'm 47 and only just figured out I have always had anxiety.

I've often talked to others as if fishing for complements, but what I'm actually doing is trying to see how others see me, so I can try to get an idea of what I'm like. I don't do that anymore though.

 

[Southern Discomfort]

i learnt mentalizing, more by chance - or turning from mindblind to mindread [takes some effort

Don't overload yourself doing that though, that's how you can trigger burn outs at the like, then you might not be able to do any of that stuff for a while.

i was just wondering if should explain how to? i guess, one would hardly ever find out [except one is lucky enough to have never suffered this deficit] if one didn't know how to or what to try specifically [or is this no matter of interest?]

It's up to you if you want to disclose of not of course. I do disclose with a lot of people because I feel I can trust them and they can try to understand me a bit better. I have had one person softly deny it though, which, sucks a bit. But I don't think that person understands what Asperger's is anyway. I think they think it is something that makes you dumb.

It's difficult to think of a way to explain what autism and Asperger's is without being detrimental to yourself. One way is to loosely draw a connection to dyslexia and say it's like that but for communication but also say that it's a lot more that just that. You could also say that people with Asperger's often have a very high IQ. You could also say it gives you a tremendous passion for certain things. And that's just for starters, if they ask more questions then you can really divulge more information.

 

[ksheehan88]

Very interesting.

I can feel what I imagine others feel, and with charcters in films I'll be very close to them emotionally. I hate embarrassing scenes as I hate to feel embarrassed, and I can't laugh at embarrassing comedy as I feel embarrassed not amused.

I have been think about about a few things that seem odd that may be related though.

I used to think my parents knew everything about me and could read my mind, at least until late teenage years, maybe longer.

One of the reasons why I dislike prolonged eye contact is that it feels like people are looking into my soul, and all motives and thoughts are laid bare.

I can easily communicate with great empathy with people that are on, or are close to the spectrum, but people without a glimmer of colour seem to have an impenetrable inner wall, and I don't understand them well.

I can appreciate and empathise with people in person, but if I'm hearing about the same persons problems second hand I cannot. I almost don't care, except I do really. I'll often think somewhat callously about people's problems second hand in a way I never would in person.

I'm a mystery to myself, and applying concepts to my autism experience is extremely difficult.

I recenty discovered the bad feelings I get are not just stress, but a mix of depression, anxiety and a bit of stress, and I can now tell them apart, but I'm 47 and only just figured out I have always had anxiety.

I've often talked to others as if fishing for complements, but what I'm actually doing is trying to see how others see me, so I can try to get an idea of what I'm like. I don't do that anymore though.

I could have written this about myself, all of it!

 

[Full Steam]

I could have written this about myself, all of it!

That's what just blows me away.

My whole life I've hardly found anyone that understands a bit of my experience.

Now there's people like you who have exactly the same experience.

I cant understand how we can all be so alike in so many ways, more so it seems than NTs.

 

[James Hardy]

ya i accepted this a long time ago, and is why i adopted the saying "I don't want to be the action, I want to be the reaction."