Dating relationship help with autism

[Hypnalis]

@WVV

Ok.

Get an email id that doesn't have any information about you personally. So no name, nickname, personal characteristic, location, age, old school, personal interests, pet's name etc etc.
And don't try to hide any of those things by e.g. switching letter o for number 0, 3 for e etc

You don't need it yet, but sooner is better.

Important: You need to stop discussing this directly with your social worker for the moment. They probably have to document everything, and they don't own the information they write down.

Do you know if your case is covered by HIPAA?
If it is, quite strong privacy laws apply, and we can plan to do some of this with the social worker's assistance, which would be very useful..

Next, back to the plan: what information do you need now, and why?

You need to figure out why this is a complicated triangle rather than just two people: you and Will..

For now, two actors: you and Will's mother
The different cases net out to:

A. You're bad for Will, Mother knows it, and you'll able to fool me over the course of this discussion.
If that's the case you probably wouldn't need me, but I wouldn't know either way, so I'll ignore it
B. Mother has a sub-clinical mental issue (codependency, narcissistic "vampire", etc).
C. Mother gains a practical benefit (probably money) from being Will's official caregiver, and wants to keep things that way.

So we act as though Mother is the problem, and that she can't be trusted to act correctly.
This is why we start with being able to hide even the initial collection of data.

Actions so far (this will be a "dynamic" plan - it's too soon to look far forward):
1) Secure confidentially for the foreseeable future (in progress)
2) Find out the exact legal relationship between Will and his mother.

The Government will know, but they probably have a legal obligation to tell the Will's official caregiver, almost certainly his mother, if they get a request. And if that happens she's likely to act immediately against you in some way.

So we need to look at options other than a direct request.

Let me know about HIPAA, but if you have to ask you should be very careful how you do so. It will indicate you have a secret, so it would be a good idea to provide a different one (via a white lie).
I have a suggestion, but it's not necessary if you already know the answer about HIPAA so I'll stop here.


PS.
BTW: it's possible to deal with mildly crazy people, and I can give you some moves. But @Levitator is absolutely right: you need to be able to handle quite a lot of drama.

And there's a genuine risk we are trying to avoid: statistically, abusers are at their most dangerous just when they are about to lose control.
So the smart person who is about to disengage hides everything about their plan, and just disappears.

This is 75% of your need for secrecy. You're preparing for that kind of option.
Think of it as a version of "where possible, prefer negotiation over fighting, even if you'd probably win"

 

[WVV]

@WVV

Ok.

Get an email id that doesn't have any information about you personally. So no name, nickname, personal characteristic, location, age, old school, personal interests, pet's name etc etc.
And don't try to hide any of those things by e.g. switching letter o for number 0, 3 for e etc

You don't need it yet, but sooner is better.

Important: You need to stop discussing this directly with your social worker for the moment. They probably have to document everything, and they don't own the information they write down.

Do you know if your case is covered by HIPAA?
If it is, quite strong privacy laws apply, and we can plan to do some of this with the social worker's assistance, which would be very useful..

Next, back to the plan: what information do you need now, and why?

You need to figure out why this is a complicated triangle rather than just two people: you and Will..

For now, two actors: you and Will's mother
The different cases net out to:

A. You're bad for Will, Mother knows it, and you'll able to fool me over the course of this discussion.
If that's the case you probably wouldn't need me, but I wouldn't know either way, so I'll ignore it
B. Mother has a sub-clinical mental issue (codependency, narcissistic "vampire", etc).
C. Mother gains a practical benefit (probably money) from being Will's official caregiver, and wants to keep things that way.

So we act as though Mother is the problem, and that she can't be trusted to act correctly.
This is why we start with being able to hide even the initial collection of data.

Actions so far (this will be a "dynamic" plan - it's too soon to look far forward):
1) Secure confidentially for the foreseeable future (in progress)
2) Find out the exact legal relationship between Will and his mother.

The Government will know, but they probably have a legal obligation to tell the Will's official caregiver, almost certainly his mother, if they get a request. And if that happens she's likely to act immediately against you in some way.

So we need to look at options other than a direct request.

Let me know about HIPAA, but if you have to ask you should be very careful how you do so. It will indicate you have a secret, so it would be a good idea to provide a different one (via a white lie).
I have a suggestion, but it's not necessary if you already know the answer about HIPAA so I'll stop here.


PS.
BTW: it's possible to deal with mildly crazy people, and I can give you some moves. But @Levitator is absolutely right: you need to be able to handle quite a lot of drama.

And there's a genuine risk we are trying to avoid: statistically, abusers are at their most dangerous just when they are about to lose control.
So the smart person who is about to disengage hides everything about their plan, and just disappears.

This is 75% of your need for secrecy. You're preparing for that kind of option.
Think of it as a version of "where possible, prefer negotiation over fighting, even if you'd probably win"

Yes my therapist that im talking too has hippa in place. Everything i say to her stays between her and me that we are not allow to talk about it outside of therapy

 

[WVV]

Yes my therapist that im talking too has hippa in place. Everything i say to her stays between her and me that we are not allow to talk about it outside of therapy

I just set up my anonymous email account so everything so far is good to go!! I can handle a lot of drama so the fight is on!!

 

[WVV]

@WVV

Ok.

Get an email id that doesn't have any information about you personally. So no name, nickname, personal characteristic, location, age, old school, personal interests, pet's name etc etc.
And don't try to hide any of those things by e.g. switching letter o for number 0, 3 for e etc

You don't need it yet, but sooner is better.

Important: You need to stop discussing this directly with your social worker for the moment. They probably have to document everything, and they don't own the information they write down.

Do you know if your case is covered by HIPAA?
If it is, quite strong privacy laws apply, and we can plan to do some of this with the social worker's assistance, which would be very useful..

Next, back to the plan: what information do you need now, and why?

You need to figure out why this is a complicated triangle rather than just two people: you and Will..

For now, two actors: you and Will's mother
The different cases net out to:

A. You're bad for Will, Mother knows it, and you'll able to fool me over the course of this discussion.
If that's the case you probably wouldn't need me, but I wouldn't know either way, so I'll ignore it
B. Mother has a sub-clinical mental issue (codependency, narcissistic "vampire", etc).
C. Mother gains a practical benefit (probably money) from being Will's official caregiver, and wants to keep things that way.

So we act as though Mother is the problem, and that she can't be trusted to act correctly.
This is why we start with being able to hide even the initial collection of data.

Actions so far (this will be a "dynamic" plan - it's too soon to look far forward):
1) Secure confidentially for the foreseeable future (in progress)
2) Find out the exact legal relationship between Will and his mother.

The Government will know, but they probably have a legal obligation to tell the Will's official caregiver, almost certainly his mother, if they get a request. And if that happens she's likely to act immediately against you in some way.

So we need to look at options other than a direct request.

Let me know about HIPAA, but if you have to ask you should be very careful how you do so. It will indicate you have a secret, so it would be a good idea to provide a different one (via a white lie).
I have a suggestion, but it's not necessary if you already know the answer about HIPAA so I'll stop here.


PS.
BTW: it's possible to deal with mildly crazy people, and I can give you some moves. But @Levitator is absolutely right: you need to be able to handle quite a lot of drama.

And there's a genuine risk we are trying to avoid: statistically, abusers are at their most dangerous just when they are about to lose control.
So the smart person who is about to disengage hides everything about their plan, and just disappears.

This is 75% of your need for secrecy. You're preparing for that kind of option.
Think of it as a version of "where possible, prefer negotiation over fighting, even if you'd probably win"

I believe its both option b and c. After all we are dealing with a master manipulator and narcissist!!!

 

[Hypnalis]

Only have a few minutes but ...

No drama yet, but the attitude is perfect! I'm hoping we can avoid it though.

And yes - there's not enough data in your posts above, but there's a hint of the "dark triad" in them. That's why I offered to help.

I have to sleep now - L8r!

 

[WVV]

@WVV, it sounds like you began this relationship with considerable input from your respective parents, and so it makes some sense that Will's mother expects to have a say in the ongoing relationship.


It sounds like there is a good amount of miscommunication here and that will make everything more difficult. Will's mother is understanding the relationship differently than you are. What you've written above makes it sound like everyone is confused about what is actually going on.


One way to interpret what you've written here is that she was feeling protective of Will because she thinks that you did something that you did not. If she is Will's guardian, it would be her job to protect him against people who are soliciting inappropriate pictures from him through manipulation. You have clearly stated that you have not done this, but it sounds like she doesn't know that.

I don't have nearly enough information to take sides here, I'm just trying to explain how her actions seem understandable in some ways even though, unfortunately, her choices seem to be based on misunderstandings and misinformation from what you've shared here.

---

You haven't talked much about what Will wants and what he says about this whole situation.

Will wants to have this relationship and he wants it to work. He told me that he never broke up with me at all. That this separation was something his mom decided without his knowing. He also said that we are two adults and if we want to be together than its our choice and business, not his moms. He said now all this is now is a waiting game.

 

[Levitator]

Will wants to have this relationship and he wants it to work. He told me that he never broke up with me at all. That this separation was something his mom decided without his knowing. He also said that we are two adults and if we want to be together than its our choice and business, not his moms. He said now all this is now is a waiting game.

I wish you a lot of luck. I see two main issues. One, you have a right to talk to each other because you're adults. The other issue, is to consider his financial (or other) dependence upon someone else, so if you want to help him out of a toxic environment, independence is something to address delicately before causing a lot of friction. His mother probably won't throw him out in the street, but she might throw her weight around if she senses he's trying to live his own life and she disagrees.

 

[WVV]

I wish you a lot of luck. I see two main issues. One, you have a right to talk to each other because you're adults. The other issue, is to consider his financial (or other) dependence upon someone else, so if you want to help him out of a toxic environment, independence is something to address delicately before causing a lot of friction. His mother probably won't throw him out in the street, but she might throw her weight around if she senses he's trying to live his own life and she disagrees.

Exactly. Its so frustrating and my heart breaks for him. This man deserves more than what she is allowing him to have. She has always been this way and im just so confused bc before she kicked me out of her house she went on for days about how i was never going anywhere and how i would always be there and blah blah blah and then she drops me off at my house and thats it!!!

 

[WVV]

Let me share more of what she said to me in texts. Are you talking with Will?I will take his phone if necessary. I want no communication with Will or I will contact your dad and advise him of my desires. I have no hard feelings but must protect my family. You may talk with his sister but Will just wants to move on. He was very hurt and humiliated. It caused friendships to be broken and I take friendship,true friendships, very seriously. I hope you have a good life. I wish nothing but happiness for your family.I care greatly about you more than you know. I simply have lost trust an extremely important factor in close friendships. I'll always be here to talk but I cannot let Will ever be involved again. I truly care. How backhanded are these responses?!!?

 

[jsilver256]

I hate to say it, but have you considered that Will is just telling everyone what they want to hear and does not have a clear idea of his own desires?

 

[WVV]

I hate to say it, but have you considered that Will is just telling everyone what they want to hear and does not have a clear idea of his own desires?

He does have a clear idea of his own desires. He is terrified to go against his mothers wishes bc if he does then she calls the cops on him and has him arrested.

Will is pretty honest with what he wants!!!

I mean you could still be correct on that. I mean at this point i just dont know the answer!!

 

[WVV]

Y’all keep saying that you havent heard Will’s responses to all of this and here they are!!!
I make my own decisions besides they treat us like kids We are adults we care about each other we can make our own minds it's no one's business but ours we should have never told them to begin with until we had our relationship secure. It didnt work between us because of them not ready for their kids to date But we are. Okay but just so you know the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life was giving you up without a fight Because we let our parents bully and belittle us into doing what they want If we want to be together it's our decision our business not theirs And so take it slow and fun this time instead of immediately jumping in and thinking about rings and marriage.

Keep in mind that what he means by parents is that his mom has Will believing that my dad is not ok with us dating. In the beginning his mom said she did not mind us dating as long as my dad was ok with it. My dad has told this lady multiple times that he was ok with his daughter dating this womans son.

 

[WVV]

Y’all keep saying that you havent heard Will’s responses to all of this and here they are!!!
I make my own decisions besides they treat us like kids We are adults we care about each other we can make our own minds it's no one's business but ours we should have never told them to begin with until we had our relationship secure. It didnt work between us because of them not ready for their kids to date But we are. Okay but just so you know the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life was giving you up without a fight Because we let our parents bully and belittle us into doing what they want If we want to be together it's our decision our business not theirs And so take it slow and fun this time instead of immediately jumping in and thinking about rings and marriage.

Keep in mind that what he means by parents is that his mom has Will believing that my dad is not ok with us dating. In the beginning his mom said she did not mind us dating as long as my dad was ok with it. My dad has told this lady multiple times that he was ok with his daughter dating this womans son.

 

[WVV]

I feel like my family messed things up for you and me more than you and I ever did The only thing matters is how I feel and how you feel if your dad is okay with it that's great but I'm tired of being too worried about what everybody else thinks and just start focusing on how I feel Well our parents death was in more than a year but that has nothing to do with it I never thought of love at first sight until I started I have feelings about you I think that God brought us together and the fear and everything and her parents put taking us apart but I think our parents are in better places now that our parents have died I think they have moved on in life so we should too I really want to be with you and I'm willing to do anything jump through any Hoops that your dad wants me to jump Yes I'm sure I care about you and I want to try and make this work no matter how many Hoops I have to jump through.

 

[Hypnalis]

@WVV

I'm short of time today, but I also forgot to check something yesterday: maybe you have the information you need already.

This is all about "freeing Will", and there's an ASD-related element to his situation: ASD 2 and 3 imply that the person requires a degree of support. You can view it as "2 needs a moderate amount of support, 3 needs a lot".
Some people in those ranges need an official caregiver, some might have a legal guardian even after they turn 18.

If Will has neither, then the "tether" to his mother is psychological only.
But if his mother legally has one or both of those roles, you need to address that as a legal issue.
If needed, It should be possible to do this easily enough, but legal stuff is, by nature, complicated, and preparation is essential.

So the key data you need right now:

* Is Will's mother his legal guardian? (or some other person or entity, or even the state?)
* Is Will's mother his "official" caregiver?
* Does Will have a private bank account (not necessarily even possible if she's his guardian & you're in the US)
* Does Will receive his support payments himself, or does his mother (or some other intermediary) get them?

Note that it's not easy for a guardian to force a "competent" adult-aged person to do what they say (for example live in a location and dwelling of their choosing).
But a guardian who asserts that the person isn't self-sufficient and competent can cause a huge amount of trouble. Such as call the police just by claiming the person is acting strangely, and have them brought "home". Police have no choice in this.

One of your necessary objectives is to change that.
If Will is legally a competent adult, he can go wherever he likes, tell the local police he's there by choice in advance, and that his mother is a lunatic. After that, rather than collecting him they'll call him and check he's fine, then tell his mother to calm down (which drives narcs crazy in general, so probably even more if it comes from the police
Repeat a few times and his mother starts getting heat

 

[WVV]

His mother recieves his payments and then she transfers over a few hundred dollars to hi s private bank account. She does have conservatorship and last time when she called the cops on him for leaving the house with out her permission the cop told her that he is an adult and can do what he wants!!!

 

[WVV]

Here is what his mom sent me in text right after we separated. Will is settling down and I do not want to stress him any more. This on again off again is no good for either of you. Please don't call anymore until u and Mark work out your issues. I don't want Will in the middle of it. When and if u work it out have Mark call me.

 

[Hypnalis]

I came back for a sec because I forgot to remind you not to remind Will, but it's seems it wasn't necessary

This is moderately good news anyway.
You still need to verify the details OFC.

We can't bet on what the cop said, but it's a good sign
.
Do you know how much the full payment is? If Will is legally an independent adult, it's his money, but a caregiver will be allowed to deduct money for e.g. rent, food, and the like. Probably not for their own rent and food though.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don't want to chime in, this is your business and if you feel good with all of this, then carry on. But I feel like this is turning into a highly elaborate plan which you (@WVV) don't know the outcome of.
@Hypnalis, if you have a full plan in mind, maybe you want to sit down when you have time and write out all the steps, including the possible outcomes, so that you, @WVV, can think it over fully and calmly before taking further actions? I feel like at this moment you're giving @WVV gradually one instruction and piece of the plan after another which they carry out and then report back. I don't feel comfortable watching this process. I'm sure you're doing this with the best intentions, but I feel like it might result in an unpredictable outcome.

@WVV: From what you told us about Will and your situation, it's very clear you want to help him and from his texts it sounds like he would like that as well. But has he genuinely tried in the past to somehow emancipate himself from his mother? Has he implied that he wants you to take action so that he gets loose because he can't do it himself? Getting someone more freedom from their (potentially abusive) caregiver is something very good. But you shouldn't do anything rash, and also nothing the other person doesn't want (unless they're really in danger). Will might want to be in a relationship with you, but he might also want to keep living at home with the same (good?) relationship to his mom. Relationship to toxic people, especially parents, can be very ambivalent and hard.

I know this goes against what @Hypnalis has suggested, and it's up to you to decide. But it sounds like your father is positive about your relationship. Have you asked for his advice? He's someone who knows both of you, and Will's mother, and who might have a good overview and good advice in this situation right now. And if you're honestly worried about Will's safety and wellbeing under his mom's care, your dad might also have advice.

Feel free to ignore this if it doesn't help you.

 

[WVV]

I don't want to chime in, this is your business and if you feel good with all of this, then carry on. But I feel like this is turning into a highly elaborate plan which you (@WVV) don't know the outcome of.
@Hypnalis, if you have a full plan in mind, maybe you want to sit down when you have time and write out all the steps, including the possible outcomes, so that you, @WVV, can think it over fully and calmly before taking further actions? I feel like at this moment you're giving @WVV gradually one instruction and piece of the plan after another which they carry out and then report back. I don't feel comfortable watching this process. I'm sure you're doing this with the best intentions, but I feel like it might result in an unpredictable outcome.

@WVV: From what you told us about Will and your situation, it's very clear you want to help him and from his texts it sounds like he would like that as well. But has he genuinely tried in the past to somehow emancipate himself from his mother? Has he implied that he wants you to take action so that he gets loose because he can't do it himself? Getting someone more freedom from their (potentially abusive) caregiver is something very good. But you shouldn't do anything rash, and also nothing the other person doesn't want (unless they're really in danger). Will might want to be in a relationship with you, but he might also want to keep living at home with the same (good?) relationship to his mom. Relationship to toxic people, especially parents, can be very ambivalent and hard.

I know this goes against what @Hypnalis has suggested, and it's up to you to decide. But it sounds like your father is positive about your relationship. Have you asked for his advice? He's someone who knows both of you, and Will's mother, and who might have a good overview and good advice in this situation right now. And if you're honestly worried about Will's safety and wellbeing under his mom's care, your dad might also have advice.

Feel free to ignore this if it doesn't help you.

That I do not know. Im not all sure if i want to do the emancipation for Will bc im not really sure at this point if he really wants to do it this way. Like ive said before i do not have any way to communicate with him to even see if this is something he wants to do.