Asperger's and Aging

[Southern_Gentleman]

I am curious as to others’ opinions concerning Asperger’s and aging in relationship to it getting worse or improving.

I have/had (we’ve not spoken in a while) a friend that I’ve known almost fifty years, who’s obviously on the spectrum, which seems to have gotten worse as far as the manifestations of his AS goes.

As a kid he was always odd. We just thought he was like an absent-minded professor that was incredibly smart who shared the same interests as us, but now as an adult, a senior adult now, the manifestations are quite annoying. He gives no thought to what he says or how he says it and then refuses to understand when it is pointed out to him.

On the other hand, in my personal life, I have not noticed it getting worse but have managed to learn how to control what some consider offensive manifestations. It has been a struggle to train myself to fit into an NT world in order to get along.

My friend and I are the same age. Intellectually, he makes me look like the village idiot. However, I learned how to be empathetic, how to read people to a degree, and how to get along without coming across as a complete jerk, which he has become.

A common thing for those on the spectrum is an obsession for something; and obsession to the point that it becomes an annoyance to others. I learned that the entire world does not like Harley Davidson, nor do they want to hear the history of HD. My friend is obsessed with RC cars. He has built at least 250 that I know of. Every conversation, email, and even text focuses only on RC cars, the history of RC cars, prominent figures in the RC world, etc. Either that or his dog. I’ll not mention the dog because that would take up too much space.

So, what is your opinion on AS and aging? Does it get worse or do some Aspies stop trying to fit into the NT world?

 

[Judge]

The short version? I can't seriously blame my autism on a bad back, or a declining short-term memory. But then I live in near isolation like a hermit, and have minimal contacts with people other than an occasional phone call from my cousin, and routine but benign contacts with retail personnel. In essence I don't see my autism improving or getting worse. But old age has caught up with me and continues to do so.

Of course I've always considered my OCD to be far more problematic in comparison. Which remains flat to me...and that it will always be there until my expiration date.

 

[Misty Avich]

This is what frightens me. I'm scared I'm going to lose my social communication skills (which are actually on the same ability level as the average NT) and descend into the isolating world of autism.

 

[Rodafina]

@Southern_Gentleman
You may find this thread interesting:

Does Autism get Worse as you Age?

As I got in to my 50s my autistic traits seemed to get worse, or more pronounced. Logic tells me that it’s probably just part of the process of getting older. Less energy and less inclination to keep holding up the mask, a little less caring of what others think, grumpy old man syndrome, etc...

www.autismforums.com

 

[Southern_Gentleman]

@Southern_Gentleman
You may find this thread interesting:

Does Autism get Worse as you Age?

As I got in to my 50s my autistic traits seemed to get worse, or more pronounced. Logic tells me that it’s probably just part of the process of getting older. Less energy and less inclination to keep holding up the mask, a little less caring of what others think, grumpy old man syndrome, etc...

www.autismforums.com

Thanks. I didn't know I was the only one wondering about that. Perhaps we need to start a club.

 

[Rodafina]

I didn't know I was the only one wondering about that.

I've had that exact experience so many times on this forum.

 

[330]

I am getting worse , the older I get . Or another perspective , reverting back to how I was pre 15 years old is another way to look at it .

 

[MNAus]

OK, my thoughts which may end up sounding somewhat bitter or cynical. Let's see.

I think you stop caring. When you're younger you have big aspirations for your life, and there's a lot more (internal and external) drive to be social. You turn perceived deficits in on yourself: "Why can't I make friends like everyone else? Why can't I be social like others?"

So you start to do things like masking, self-work to 'improve', etc. But the problem is that a lot of this stuff is just who you are. And society (especially right now) is pretty unforgiving. So you're told you need to change because you're not in touch enough with your feelings, because you're not social enough, because you try to "fix things" instead of "letting people vent", "stubborn" because you have difficulty when things change quickly, and so on.

You're held up as the archetype of what people really shouldn't be. People write to problem page columns lamenting that their partner is this way, and receive a reply that the writer can probably educate the partner into being the proper model. And each year the social complexity bar is raised higher. Even those on social media and in popular culture with ASD are playing 5d chess with social protocol: on what is acceptable, what isn't, "did you just raise your eyebrow at me?", "did you fail to raise your eyebrow at me?". Talking to people becomes more complex, a social Hunger Games. It was difficult enough when people were coming to the table with good intent (though maybe they never were.... I wouldn't know).

And that brief period where you thought ASD being recognised might give you a pass to be yourself? Nope, you're still a dinosaur who spends too much time in the shed, can't do social niceties and who needs to change. ASD isn't the majority of regular folks, struggling day to day. It's highly articulate characters on TV and tictoc with cutting edge branding, and an incredible social radar. While you're struggling to even recognise if your partner's expression means they're angry at you or not, they're busily scolding neurotypical people for failing to understand that the tone of voice they used for a particular verb can cause offense and that their use of language portrays a bias. Even your portrayal in society doesn't represent you.

So at some point you realise you can't win, and you're not meant to win. It doesn't matter how hard you work at fitting in, you'll always be missing the last 5%. So you think "Why bother? I only have one life, and I've spent 75% of it trying to be what others want, and it's not brought me happiness, so why bother?" For some the 'regression' to the real them might be less shocking and less dramatic. For others, well... Perhaps this is actually your real friend, not the one who collapsed at home every day, exhausted from hiding who he was, in tears of frustration that even though he tried his hardest to be one of the boys, he still came across as an absent-minded professor.

 

[Judge]

So at some point you realise you can't win, and you're not meant to win.

Not can't win, but rather realize that winning isn't all that important any more. That's not necessarily a bad thing. If anything it's a burden lifted.

"Mind over matter". I don't mind, so it don't matter.

 

[The Pandector]

I’m no sort of expert, but have some experience. For those wanting to slog through it…

I didn’t self-diagnose until 69 years old. In younger years I had a fire that propelled me, that provided a track for my personal land-rocket. In my 40’s, following serious back injuries, I had to build a new life without my career, which had been my rocket sled. What I found is that it was much more difficult to build a life because that forging fire had diminished. I developed interests, gained expertise, but it was more like pulling the rocket sled than riding it. I still felt I had been gifted with some unusual abilities, but experienced less of that magical thing that I always thought of as inspiration; had to be methodical in order to harness my giftedness, rather than just enjoying the ride. As years went by, it was clear to me that I was a bit like the mathematician or chess player who faded.

When my wife passed, I began to realize I couldn’t live without her, thought I would be one of those husbands who dies within a year of their spouse. During that year, I realized I am autistic, and this forum became a hangout as I hunkered down in anticipation of my demise. My trajectory was clear.

Freed of all the stress of what to do next (I was dying) and of the ego-related business of self-perpetuation, I sized up my life. One major realization was that my ‘powers’ had faded slowly but steadily over the years, too painful to admit while I still had a life to lead. Another realization was that those weird and quirky powers were the only thing that had allowed me to navigate a wholly irrational world. Easier to admit, since I had no further need of them.

Long story less long, I didn’t die. Much to my consternation, a doctor discovered that I had been suffering an internal infection while seeing my wife through hospice. I began to improve physically, but have lived since with the enlightenment that might come when you’ve given up all hope.

I grew up the black sheep weird (read ‘retarded’) child. Mom always said she never wanted children, so I am certain she didn’t want a retarded one. Big brother was always the golden child, who I was supposed to emulate. In the in crowd, decent grades. I always knew he was a totally self-absorbed self-serving body part, could never understand that others found him attractive or even tolerable. I found success in the computer industry, he finally found statistical analysis and did well. Although we rarely saw each other as adults, he refused to break the old habits of manipulation and constant put downs.

I visited his state once, trying once again to establish an adult relationship to carry us through life. As I had a high security clearance, I was allowed through his factory, where I met a few dozen of his coworkers. Without exception, they clearly didn’t want my brother around. (For flavor: he and I have always looked and sounded alike. Several times he asked his coworkers, ‘who does he remind you of? Me, right? Before I lost all that weight. I used to look just like him, right?’ Sadly, this is typical of his life; however he had managed popularity in school, he never ceased to try looking good at the expense of others.

I could see that brother’s life had caught up with him; not only were they not in his thrall, they clearly despise him and didn’t like being around him. Autistic, I don’t read faces well, but the disdain was palpable.

Last year, his wife died. Our little half-brother went to visit and console, and he wasn’t shy about reporting to me what he saw. Big bro’s family loved him, but were exasperated to the extreme. For years, he and his wife (both retired) had to be in the same places at the same times of day. If it was raining, then the schedule was precisely altered to another routine. It made family life very difficult for them, but his wife was apparently satisfied to live with him, as was mine.

A younger half brother was a total screwup, brushes with the law, jerkus friends. Almost thirty, he got his act together and quickly climbed the RV service ladder to become service manager at one of our country’s top RV sales chains, at their flagship store, no less. Years later, he lost that job. He now claims he is not homeless: his tent is pitched in a friend’s backyard.

My birth family is rife with autism, though none have mentioned it to me. This brief history tells me that, in our family of autistics, all but the oldest were late to bloom. As well, those of us that did bloom, lost a significant portion of whatever that thing is, over time.

I know most people lose a step or two with age, but the losses in my family have been quite pronounced, beginning in the 40’s.

 

[330]

you may have a point. I don’t really care how the world perceives me anymore . They wouldn’t even understand if they cared . My experience with that is still a negative one. All I care about now is how is how I experience me as myself.

 

[The Pandector]

OK, my thoughts which may end up sounding somewhat bitter or cynical. Let's see.

I think you stop caring. When you're younger you have big aspirations for your life, and there's a lot more (internal and external) drive to be social. You turn perceived deficits in on yourself: "Why can't I make friends like everyone else? Why can't I be social like others?"

So you start to do things like masking, self-work to 'improve', etc. But the problem is that a lot of this stuff is just who you are. And society (especially right now) is pretty unforgiving. So you're told you need to change because you're not in touch enough with your feelings, because you're not social enough, because you try to "fix things" instead of "letting people vent", "stubborn" because you have difficulty when things change quickly, and so on.

You're held up as the archetype of what people really shouldn't be. People write to problem page columns lamenting that their partner is this way, and receive a reply that the writer can probably educate the partner into being the proper model. And each year the social complexity bar is raised higher. Even those on social media and in popular culture with ASD are playing 5d chess with social protocol: on what is acceptable, what isn't, "did you just raise your eyebrow at me?", "did you fail to raise your eyebrow at me?". Talking to people becomes more complex, a social Hunger Games. It was difficult enough when people were coming to the table with good intent (though maybe they never were.... I wouldn't know).

And that brief period where you thought ASD being recognised might give you a pass to be yourself? Nope, you're still a dinosaur who spends too much time in the shed, can't do social niceties and who needs to change. ASD isn't the majority of regular folks, struggling day to day. It's highly articulate characters on TV and tictoc with cutting edge branding, and an incredible social radar. While you're struggling to even recognise if your partner's expression means they're angry at you or not, they're busily scolding neurotypical people for failing to understand that the tone of voice they used for a particular verb can cause offense and that their use of language portrays a bias. Even your portrayal in society doesn't represent you.

So at some point you realise you can't win, and you're not meant to win. It doesn't matter how hard you work at fitting in, you'll always be missing the last 5%. So you think "Why bother? I only have one life, and I've spent 75% of it trying to be what others want, and it's not brought me happiness, so why bother?" For some the 'regression' to the real them might be less shocking and less dramatic. For others, well... Perhaps this is actually your real friend, not the one who collapsed at home every day, exhausted from hiding who he was, in tears of frustration that even though he tried his hardest to be one of the boys, he still came across as an absent-minded professor.

Wow. As a self-understanding project, I set out to write 2-3 pages about how a neurotypical might love an autist. I finished the resultant 900+ page book a few months ago. Beyond the romantic thing, the little day project became a quest to help the neurotypical understand the daily life of an autistic guy. Had I attended Harvard, I could just chuck my endless rewriting process and turn in your profound 1-page description as my own day-in-the-life.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I have always thought that as anybody ages they become caricatures of themselves. What gets exaggerated about us is our fundamental nature. I am hoping that I have a kind nature.

As I age I find myself more concerned with my friends, my community; taking part in civics, helping with the Conservation District, volunteering at the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. Plus, I am putting in the work to grow myself to be a better partner for my spouse.

 

[Thinx]

I noticed a bit of a change in my 50s, but I am not sure if that's about autism so much as aging? A loss of focus and memory, students names eluded me, etc. It's not going to be the same for everyone though, is it? Aging will affect people variously and differently I expect.

Some auties seem to burn out in their 40s, I notice, I think my sibling had that issue, and seems on the road to being a hermit. It can be hard to see what choice one has I think, given how hard it may be to live the life we would feel comfortable with.

I have had a few health issues, in my mid 60s now, unexpectedly, but not sure that's down to autism.

 

[MNAus]

Wow. As a self-understanding project, I set out to write 2-3 pages about how a neurotypical might love an autist. I finished the resultant 900+ page book a few months ago. Beyond the romantic thing, the little day project became a quest to help the neurotypical understand the daily life of an autistic guy. Had I attended Harvard, I could just chuck my endless rewriting process and turn in your profound 1-page description as my own day-in-the-life.

You're far too generous, but thankyou.

 

[Misty Avich]

I think everyone changes as they age. That's why older people socialise less than younger people. So I'm not going to deteriorate, right?

 

[KevinMao133]

From my experience, I can’t speak for others

It actually got a lot better as I aged

See I’m 26 now, about to turn 27 in 8 days

Anyways, enough about that stuff, move on

I think as I got older, I started to be a lot more reserved. Learning what to say and when to say has helped me a ton

Also, learning how to be more articulate has helped me as well. I was always intelligent but not so much articulate. I’m doing that and has improved a lot

Anyways, that’s it

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I am curious as to others’ opinions concerning Asperger’s and aging in relationship to it getting worse or improving.

I have/had (we’ve not spoken in a while) a friend that I’ve known almost fifty years, who’s obviously on the spectrum, which seems to have gotten worse as far as the manifestations of his AS goes.

As a kid he was always odd. We just thought he was like an absent-minded professor that was incredibly smart who shared the same interests as us, but now as an adult, a senior adult now, the manifestations are quite annoying. He gives no thought to what he says or how he says it and then refuses to understand when it is pointed out to him.

On the other hand, in my personal life, I have not noticed it getting worse but have managed to learn how to control what some consider offensive manifestations. It has been a struggle to train myself to fit into an NT world in order to get along.

My friend and I are the same age. Intellectually, he makes me look like the village idiot. However, I learned how to be empathetic, how to read people to a degree, and how to get along without coming across as a complete jerk, which he has become.

A common thing for those on the spectrum is an obsession for something; and obsession to the point that it becomes an annoyance to others. I learned that the entire world does not like Harley Davidson, nor do they want to hear the history of HD. My friend is obsessed with RC cars. He has built at least 250 that I know of. Every conversation, email, and even text focuses only on RC cars, the history of RC cars, prominent figures in the RC world, etc. Either that or his dog. I’ll not mention the dog because that would take up too much space.

So, what is your opinion on AS and aging? Does it get worse or do some Aspies stop trying to fit into the NT world?

Well, a few things are going on.
1. There's the very real situation of the "aging brain" in which the brain's environment, both internally and externally are being constantly changed by nutrition, physical health, blood flow, medications, social interactions, the level of intellectual stimulation, and so on. We aren't the same people we were 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.
2. There's a subset of autistics that appear to maintain their brain mass throughout their life, whilst some, are more normal in the sense that there is loss as we age.
3. There's a subset of autistics that have a missing gene for methylation that can affect cardiovascular health and blood pressure (via homocysteine and angiotensin). Methylation reactions also occur within the neurotransmitter biochemistry that can effect oxytocin, dopamine, and serotonin levels.
4. If you are of lower income, are not physically active, and/or tend to be depressed, there is a tendency to overindulge in food, do a lot of snacking, especially "junk foods", suffer from poor nutrition, and over time, are at a higher risk for obesity, metabolic syndromes, autoimmune diseases, chronic inflammation, cardiovascular disease, cancers, and diabetes. Furthermore, are more likely to indulge in alcohol and drug abuse.
5. There's a subset of autistics that do not convert creatine that can lead to a general loss of muscle mass, physical energy, GI dysfunction, and brain energetics (you get mentally exhausted prematurely).
6. There's a subset of autistics that simply give up on being social, for one reason or another, but end up living in solitude. Some seemingly just quietly accept it and don't really have a sense of loneliness, and others are quite depressed and lonely. Yet, some others have people around them, a spouse, children, friends, acquaintances, etc.
7. Some autistics have an internal drive to see and do things, have several special interests, travel, enjoy learning new things, and are quite mentally stimulated. Yet others simply wake up and do nothing, with no goals or aspirations.
8. As our brain becomes mentally exhausted easier, our abilities to mask our symptoms become diminished, and our sensory experience may become more prominent. In effect, some people appear to become "more autistic".

So, there are a handful of variables at play here that will impact our lives as we age into our 60's and beyond. More specific to our sensory experience, personally, some elements are more pronounced, whilst others seem to have faded into the background. I also think, as we age, we have a lower tolerance for psychological blather, we recognize toxic personality traits, and we are more likely to simply avoid it whenever possible. We recognize the stress that these social interactions will cause, and we just turn the other way rather than making some polite attempt at dealing with these people. With age, experience, mistakes, trauma, etc. we gain wisdom. We aren't here to please anyone anymore, we've been there, done that, and now we are done. If you don't like me, fine, I couldn't care less, you're just another one of thousands of people that has walked in and out of my life.

 

[Jumpinbare]

OK, my thoughts which may end up sounding somewhat bitter or cynical. Let's see.

I think you stop caring. When you're younger you have big aspirations for your life, and there's a lot more (internal and external) drive to be social. You turn perceived deficits in on yourself: "Why can't I make friends like everyone else? Why can't I be social like others?"

So you start to do things like masking, self-work to 'improve', etc. But the problem is that a lot of this stuff is just who you are. And society (especially right now) is pretty unforgiving. So you're told you need to change because you're not in touch enough with your feelings, because you're not social enough, because you try to "fix things" instead of "letting people vent", "stubborn" because you have difficulty when things change quickly, and so on.

You're held up as the archetype of what people really shouldn't be. People write to problem page columns lamenting that their partner is this way, and receive a reply that the writer can probably educate the partner into being the proper model. And each year the social complexity bar is raised higher. Even those on social media and in popular culture with ASD are playing 5d chess with social protocol: on what is acceptable, what isn't, "did you just raise your eyebrow at me?", "did you fail to raise your eyebrow at me?". Talking to people becomes more complex, a social Hunger Games. It was difficult enough when people were coming to the table with good intent (though maybe they never were.... I wouldn't know).

And that brief period where you thought ASD being recognised might give you a pass to be yourself? Nope, you're still a dinosaur who spends too much time in the shed, can't do social niceties and who needs to change. ASD isn't the majority of regular folks, struggling day to day. It's highly articulate characters on TV and tictoc with cutting edge branding, and an incredible social radar. While you're struggling to even recognise if your partner's expression means they're angry at you or not, they're busily scolding neurotypical people for failing to understand that the tone of voice they used for a particular verb can cause offense and that their use of language portrays a bias. Even your portrayal in society doesn't represent you.

So at some point you realise you can't win, and you're not meant to win. It doesn't matter how hard you work at fitting in, you'll always be missing the last 5%. So you think "Why bother? I only have one life, and I've spent 75% of it trying to be what others want, and it's not brought me happiness, so why bother?" For some the 'regression' to the real them might be less shocking and less dramatic. For others, well... Perhaps this is actually your real friend, not the one who collapsed at home every day, exhausted from hiding who he was, in tears of frustration that even though he tried his hardest to be one of the boys, he still came across as an absent-minded professor.

This absent-mined-professor could not agree more. I don't care that people think I'm weird. By dictionary definition, I am weird. I always try to treat people with politeness and respect, but that is all the masking I do now. I'm retired. I've got my grumpy old man license. I make quick forays into public for supplies and go back to my secluded house or campsite and just am myself, not someone playacting "normal".

 

[Crossbreed]

ASD1s in the work force often have to mask in an effort to maintain professional connections (with varying degrees of effectiveness).
That necessity declines after retirement.

My ASD2 son (36) & ASD3 daughter (29) are are oblivious to such mores, and make no such effort to appease them.

I (ASD1) make no effort to hide my quirks, but I do not wish to inadvertently hurt anyone's feelings. (And I apologize when I realize I have done so.)

My mom (who could have undiagnosed ASD1 or ADHD) was recently put on a guardianship for early-onset dementia. Such could easily amplify one's disregard for others.