Are people on the spectrum capable of lying or manipulating?

[Tom Measor]

Are people on the spectrum capable of lying or manipulating? Yes, but they are no where near as good at it as NT's

 

[AidenMaccullagh]

Jamie I read this and I have to agree with what you did. It was getting dangerous and he could do significant amount of damage if it had continued. There are some on the spectrum that lie to get attention. Honestly it's repulsive and gives us a bad reputation. Good work getting out of that

 

[Diane]

We're all capable of lying but we're not all good at it. In fact I'd venture to say that many if not most people with Asperger's/Autism are *not* good at lying. We're also capable of attempting to manipulate but again, we're not very good at it.

It's too much work to keep track of lies and to try to manipulate situations. We have to be able to "twist and turn and maneuver" in ways we're not wired to do when we attempt to manipulate, or to keep track of ever-growing lies. It's so much easier to just be blunt, no anxiety there, so we are (and that gets us in trouble). ​

But, usually the end goal isn't malicious. Typically the Aspie is attempting to manipulate because he's desperately trying to feel comfortable/safe (but not at the expense of another person). Not knowing what's going to happen is a massive anxiety inducer, massive beyond understanding, and I feel that's what drives much of the manipulation. I'm not however saying this is the case with your situation, just saying that in many cases I feel that might be what's happening.

That doesn't make it right (the lying and manipulating) but I hope it adds a bit of clarity.

Whether or not this guy was lying to you and/or manipulating you isn't what's important right now. Your own mental health is what's important and that means letting this go and taking care of you.

You broke off the relationship but you're still struggling with trying to sort through it, trying to figure out what he did or didn't do, what he was trying to accomplish in possibly manipulating you. You sound occasionally as if you're defending his actions/motives (I could be wrong, it just sounds like it).

Continuing to attempt to sort through it right now can cause you to continue to question yourself and your decisions. You can't move forward doing that.

Maybe he was manipulating you, maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was lying to you, maybe he wasn't. The important thing is that you saw red flags, you acted, and you *keep* acting.

Keep moving away from the relationship and stop examining his motives for a bit. There's always time for questioning/examining later, when emotions have been removed or at least dulled.

First, heal...
Diane

 

[Kenz]

Yes, we are capable of lying, and we aren't super logical all of the time. We have preferences that lean toward that, and we prefer to be honest, but we also understand concepts like "saving face" and behaviors that our respective cultures have deemed appropriate. In fact, I would say that it might be the opposite. Some of us want to be accepted by our peer groups so we may modify our behavior in such a way where we're only performing in an environment we deem "acceptable." For example, if you call me on Friday to go to a party with you, and we didn't make prior plans, or I'm just not interested enough to keep up with the plans we made, I probably won't show up. I may tell you why or I may just ignore the situation all together. Was I rude? Maybe, but you have to look at the situation from my perspective, too. Sometimes I just can't function in an "acceptable" manner around people and saving my sanity is well worth a little rudeness, IMO.

 

[Glibb]

This is very stupid and/or offensive question I am sure, and this is a follow-up to a post I made yesterday (I appreciate all the feedback, by the way), but as I reflect on my lost friendship (online) with a guy on the spectrum (I am an NT), I am wondering if this 2 year situation we had that involved friendship, sexual activities (online only) and the mentioning of love were just a way for him to cure his boredom. He has been on a 2 year break from college for surgery, a death of a family member and his own personal struggles. This is about the time we met. I always wondered why he did not date women in his hometown and only talked to me, an older woman.

Anyway...

Every time I said I was meeting with another male friend online, he would say he wanted to visit me instead and live with me, take care of me, etc. I told him the age difference was too vast and he said he did not care. So, I actually believed him and fell head over heels. One of the reasons I like people on the spectrum is that they seem to be super honest and straightforward, and logical to a fault.

Is it possible that he was just being manipulative to keep me interested and into him only? Is it possible that he was lying?

I ended our friendship as I can't remain friends with someone who I had love for. He does not understand this. He thinks because he came to the realization from a Google search and talking to friends, that a relationship with someone my age was impossible, that everything should go back to being buddy, buddy.

Again, from the advise I got on here, I ended the friendship, but I do have to wonder if he was manipulating me, at least partially for his own sexual gain and for company. I never thought it was possible for those on the AS to be manipulative like this. Sorry again if I am not clear. I have a central nervous system issue due to medications.

Everyone is capable of lying to some extent, even if only by omission (not telling you the entire truth in order to hide something). The extent to which a person is capable of lying effectively, however, can be greatly affected by autism. Because one of the classic symptoms of autism is a lack of understanding of behavioural cues and social skills, many people with autism are ineffective liars at best and will often give themselves away because they do not understand how to manipulate. For some, it doesn't even occur to them to lie in the first place, they simply do not tell you everything. The only people for whom the spectrum completely removes the ability to lie are those for whom it completely removes the ability to speak.

Also, I don't find your question offensive in the slightest, it actually pleases me when people do their best to understand autism, especially when they do so by coming to a place where they will find informed opinions such as this forum.

What I can say from past personal experiences, this sounds exactly like my first relationship. Online it can be incredibly easy for a person with autism to get carried away and let their emotions override logic because it is so, so difficult to be ourselves in an intimate situation offline. I was genuinely in love with a girl who lived miles away and for the first time in my life she returned my affections, however once we met in person it became obvious to her just how incapable I was of maintaining a real relationship. I still have feelings for that person to some extent, but overall I'm more grateful to her for being gentle in breaking up with me because it taught me the what was actually necessary to have a meaningful relationship. I'd say he was probably genuine but didn't realise what he was lacking.

 

[Lirazel]

It seems to me that being truthful and manipulative are not mutually exclusive, so there is no reason to believe that a typical Aspie is not capable of being manipulative because they are also typically honest.

Nor is there anything that would specifically suggest that manipulative behaviours are necessarily intentional, or that the person responsible is necessarily aware of the implication and impact of their behaviour.

As such, Aspies broadly are capable of being manipulative, commonly I would think because absent truly viable social skills, manipulative behaviours may be the only way some can actually get what they want or need from others.

I would say, a person needs to know how someone else thinks in order to manipulate them. I am Asperges and I don't have that skill. It's not likely he has either. I'm the one who's easily deceived.

 

[Lirazel]

I would say, a person needs to know how someone else thinks in order to manipulate them. I am Asperges and I don't have that skill. It's not likely he has either. I'm the one who's easily deceived.

 

[Littlemissnaughty9]

This is very stupid and/or offensive question I am sure, and this is a follow-up to a post I made yesterday (I appreciate all the feedback, by the way), but as I reflect on my lost friendship (online) with a guy on the spectrum (I am an NT), I am wondering if this 2 year situation we had that involved friendship, sexual activities (online only) and the mentioning of love were just a way for him to cure his boredom. He has been on a 2 year break from college for surgery, a death of a family member and his own personal struggles. This is about the time we met. I always wondered why he did not date women in his hometown and only talked to me, an older woman.

Anyway...

Every time I said I was meeting with another male friend online, he would say he wanted to visit me instead and live with me, take care of me, etc. I told him the age difference was too vast and he said he did not care. So, I actually believed him and fell head over heels. One of the reasons I like people on the spectrum is that they seem to be super honest and straightforward, and logical to a fault.

Is it possible that he was just being manipulative to keep me interested and into him only? Is it possible that he was lying?

I ended our friendship as I can't remain friends with someone who I had love for. He does not understand this. He thinks because he came to the realization from a Google search and talking to friends, that a relationship with someone my age was impossible, that everything should go back to being buddy, buddy.

Again, from the advise I got on here, I ended the friendship, but I do have to wonder if he was manipulating me, at least partially for his own sexual gain and for company. I never thought it was possible for those on the AS to be manipulative like this. Sorry again if I am not clear. I have a central nervous system issue due to medications.

Interesting..I am close friends with someone and I care for him, however we are Not in a relationship, wanted to be at the start but I am too older* for him, Your post is quite similar to my real life in some way.

 

[BirdsNest]

I'm generally too honest for my own good sometimes, like most times I apply for a job, the first thing I do is declare that I'm a disabled Aspie consequently they bin my application!

Oh god. Employment can be a nightmare.

 

[musclecarman]

Well my dad has a habit of lying to my mother from time to time so yes.

 

[Rob Schlintz]

lying, or manipulating, or topping from bottom, ways of attracting a beautiful woman like yourself, I used to be that way, learned, still single at 45, not easy to find partners in life

 

[2205]

Well I babysit an autistic 10-year old and about 75% of what he says is lying. And he’s the master of manipulation.. As a child, his lying skills are quite poor, so I usually know when he’s lying.

From your description of him, he seems quite similar type to my aspie kid. And to be honest, if he wasn’t a small kid, I’d be afraid of him because you’d never know what’s really going on in his head and what he’ll do next. Sometimes out of the blue he says scary things like “Once I found a bird on the ground and ripped its head off” and then laughs... I wouldn’t know if it’s true or not but it’s scary.

 

[Progster]

I hate people trying to force me into expressing a false emotion, such as enthusiasm, that feels like a lie to both them and myself and I resent them for it.

 

[AO1501]

I hate people trying to force me into expressing a false emotion, such as enthusiasm, that feels like a lie to both them and myself and I resent them for it.

This, absolutely. It feeds into my dislike and distrust of compliments, because they are frequently used to try and solicit a positive and affirmative response which is often not at all appropriate to the circumstance or person.

 

[Lirazel]

Well I babysit an autistic 10-year old and about 75% of what he says is lying. And he’s the master of manipulation.. As a child, his lying skills are quite poor, so I usually know when he’s lying.

From your description of him, he seems quite similar type to my aspie kid. And to be honest, if he wasn’t a small kid, I’d be afraid of him because you’d never know what’s really going on in his head and what he’ll do next. Sometimes out of the blue he says scary things like “Once I found a bird on the ground and ripped its head off” and then laughs... I wouldn’t know if it’s true or not but it’s scary.

It sounds like you don't like autistic people very much. It might help you to understand us if you learned more about about us. I mean, was it a dea

 

[Lirazel]

Was it a dead bird? Did you ask him about it? Do you talk with him?

 

[Chance]

I think anyone can lie and manipulate to some extent, but for a person who is already dealing with a blurry perception of LIFE... I cant see any advantage to a situation that is already a mess in many instances.

I feel sometimes I sort of live a lie to “try” and hide all my issues. I try and act the way I think people expect me too, though inside it feels all wrong. So my best next option is to just stay away from people as much as possible and just be me... its a little lonely but in that there is no deception or lying, just lots of reading, learning, building, and living a pretty clean boring life. : )

 

[2205]

Was it a dead bird? Did you ask him about it? Do you talk with him?

Why do you think I don’t like autistic people? I am most likely one of them, undiagnosed though.
About this bird, according to him it was alive and of course I talk with him. Every time we get to this topic of him being so violent, he states that he’s born this way and that he’s bad and violent by nature and that nothing can change that. That is sad to hear of course, because I believe that his traumatic early childhood may have caused thoughts like this. But I don’t know how to reach him so he’d be able to change those beliefs about himself.

 

[SnailPie]

It's also entirely possible that he never really gave much thought to your feelings or point of view. He saw the relationship one way, you saw it another.

"Mentioning love" is not the same as declaring love.
Feeling like he--at times--wants to be near you and harbors some ideas about a fantasy life with you where he would "take care" of you isn't that unusual, especially in an online relationship where basically no real life intrudes. He doesn't actually have to live up to any of these things. He might not be manipulative, just clueless and not realizing that you're taking all of this seriously while for him it might be a diversion.

However, because he's a college student, recovering from surgery, the death of a family member, has his own "personal struggles" and you also say he's been suicidal, he doesn't sound like he's anywhere NEAR ready to be in a real relationship, much less a serious one.
He doesn't sound like he can take good enough care of himself to worry about taking care of you.

He might be wonderful to have as a friend, but I wouldn't pin my hopes for a future on this guy. I don't know how old you are, but you said you're "older". I know you're probably hoping he'll grow up and become the man you might want him to be, but honestly, I'd look for someone who is already there, already what you want, instead of waiting for this young man to straighten up---regardless of the reasons. Aspergers or not, he doesn't really sound like he's relationship material at this point. I think you deserve better.