Share Healthy Asperger's Syndrome Coping Skills

[KassieMac]

Social interaction used to be a nightmare for my son. He has somehow managed to deal with it; I find him now quite comfortable in big gatherings. He just avoids small talk. He says, he creates a superficial identity and pre-plan every social event he has to attend. The problem he faces is at workplace where office politics is still a challenge for him. How he will overcome this challenge?? Only time will tell.. I have worked for 40 years as a banker, retired as CEO of an Investment Bank. I am therefore, aware of what office politics is all about. Its cruel and brutal, like a jungle law " survival of the brutes" Its all about how well we sell ourselves and use others. Its not about how good we are at work....

That is so true. I would get hired for my skills, then forced out due to office politics.

One of my favorite Aspie-like characters has always been Data on Star Trek: TNG. Who could possibly be more exacting & literal than a computer, albeit in human shape & form. Your description of how your son has adapted brought to mind an episode where Data decides to learn small-talk, and it perfectly demonstrated how I've always felt … chattering on about nothing … but then he was really good at it! Now I need to go find that episode …

Edited to add episode details:
Star Trek: The Next Generation
S06E18 -- "Starship Mine"
"Star Trek: The Next Generation" Starship Mine (TV Episode 1993) - IMDb

 

[Loomis]

I worked for large corporations for thirty years but eventually was sabotaged by a raging, ugly sociopath who was hired as my boss. He had previously worked his way up to a high position at a corporation whose profits were made by exploiting the poor; he was a smooth character who smiled all the time. The smiles hid a vicious, nasty interior. I saw through him on day one and knew he was bad news. I never hid my dislike for him. (Aspie honesty?) It all ended very badly. That was seven years ago and ancient history. Life is good for me now, but very different, in small town America.

 

[umbrellabeach]

My entire life, every single time I've walked out of a restroom in front of my mother, whether in public or in someone's home, she asks me "Are you ok?" … out loud, regardless of who else can hear her, whether I was in there for two seconds or three days. I find this unbelievably rude and incredibly nosy. And they say WE don't understand tact??

I've tried every method of NT behavior I've ever observed to discourage this:
"Why do you ask?"
"Do you need to go?"
"Did you need to come with me?"
"Sorry, did I miss something?"
"Why wouldn't I be?"
"Did you think something would go wrong?"
Cock one eyebrow & ask "Seriously?"
Or even just roll my eyes, look at her friend and say "I don't know why she asks these things. Does she ask you, too?"

Nothing in their non-verbal, passive-agressive, beat around the bush, vaguely imply-without-saying methodology dissuades her from doing it again. But I can't be honest & straightforward or she goes postal, and while I'm giving a rational explanation of respect & manners she starts shrieking "CALM DOWN!!"

I've tried privately asking her not to, and she agreed, but still does it anyway. Occasionally I'll get the "I can't take you out in public, you won't behave" … which is just one more case of 'The Pot Calling The Kettle … RUDE'. (And they say we don't understand the feelings of others??) I really wish she wouldn't drag me out in public, she lives to create ways to publicly embarrass me … to the point that I've basically cut off all contact except for greeting cards & the occasional email (but only if necessary).

For The Love Of Pete, she's a frikkin great-grandmother … when will she GROW UP??

So I know nothing about how to interact with non-Aspies … except I have a very long list of things that don't work.

So she thinks that if you're in the bathroom, something must be wrong with you? That's just weird.
My mom is one of those people who have to go all the time (like once an hour on average), and whenever we were out in public or traveling, when I was younger, she seemed to think I was that way too, so she often forced me to accompany her to public restrooms, and if I tried to resist, she accused me of "holding it in" and "risking my health" when in reality I just didn't need to go with her. She also seems to enjoy talking about bladders, which is even more horribly embarassing. Nowadays I avoid the bathroom when she (or anyone else, for that matter) is around, even at home, unless I'm taking a shower, filling my water bottle or just washing my hands, because my mom is so obsessive about it.
And yes, this is also the reason I feel I can't get a job, because I can't go through with the standard urine drug test due to the invasion of not just my mom but both of my parents this way. Even if someone else took me, I don't want my parents to even KNOW I'm doing it. That's how bad it is. Sometimes I feel like they regard me as a mere excretory system rather than a person with feelings and other more important things.

 

[KassieMac]

So she thinks that if you're in the bathroom, something must be wrong with you? That's just weird.
My mom is one of those people who have to go all the time (like once an hour on average), and whenever we were out in public or traveling, when I was younger, she seemed to think I was that way too, so she often forced me to accompany her to public restrooms, and if I tried to resist, she accused me of "holding it in" and "risking my health" when in reality I just didn't need to go with her. She also seems to enjoy talking about bladders, which is even more horribly embarassing. Nowadays I avoid the bathroom when she (or anyone else, for that matter) is around, even at home, unless I'm taking a shower, filling my water bottle or just washing my hands, because my mom is so obsessive about it.
And yes, this is also the reason I feel I can't get a job, because I can't go through with the standard urine drug test due to the invasion of not just my mom but both of my parents this way. Even if someone else took me, I don't want my parents to even KNOW I'm doing it. That's how bad it is. Sometimes I feel like they regard me as a mere excretory system rather than a person with feelings and other more important things.

I don't think she thought something was really wrong ... I don't think she thought anything at all, really. It was kind of an involuntary reflex, I doubt she gave any thought to the meaning of the words she said ... ever. It's the thing I encounter so often, that people expect us to ignore their words, but read their thoughts. Partly that pathological need to "fill a silent moment with non-relevant conversation" and partly the belief that my personal boundaries don't apply to her because she changed my diapers a couple of hundred years ago. Maybe continuing to treat her children like infants makes her feel young, or needed?

Back in my teens, after I transferred to another university so I could leave town, I was visiting Mom for the weekend (no, she didn't wash my clothes for me). My sister and her daughter were there for dinner. The three of us started joking around which always made Mom angry, so she decided to show off to them ... she glared at me and shouted "Go to your room!!" I calmly replied, "Mom, my room is about 100 miles down the highway, but if you really want me to, I'll go."

 

[Daniel]

I worked for large corporations for thirty years but eventually was sabotaged by a raging, ugly sociopath who was hired as my boss. He had previously worked his way up to a high position at a corporation whose profits were made by exploiting the poor; he was a smooth character who smiled all the time. The smiles hid a vicious, nasty interior. I saw through him on day one and knew he was bad news. I never hid my dislike for him. (Aspie honesty?) It all ended very badly. That was seven years ago and ancient history. Life is good for me now, but very different, in small town America.

Chord struck! I am working for a corporation right now. First one, after experiencing an agency, municipal government, and a retail chain.

What I've learned is that I have to not express dislike for people I dislike. More than that--I have to empathize with them and understand their motives. There's no room for disliking them because it doesn't matter what I think of them. So I'm figuring out how to not dislike people.

Now, I don't work for a company whose profits are made by exploiting the poor (you'd need some disposable income for that to happen! ). So for you, Loomis, it sounds like it's good that you got out of there, if it's the kind of place were a raging, ugly sociopath succeeds is given the responsibility of leadership.

In my position, my success depends on networking and relationship-building. (Still surprises me that I do this!) It's a matter of keeping my friends close and conceiving of my enemies not as enemies, but as noble counterparts in battle with different tactics and unique experience. If I want them to see things my way, I need to understand how they conceive of things first, then produce an argument that is consistent with the values they already have. (I am fortunate to have a good manager who supports me if I'm going by the right values, and corrects me if I'm off.)

And I have to not take things personally, because a) business is business, and b) I don't control anyone but myself.

 

[Loomis]

Chord struck! I am working for a corporation right now. First one, after experiencing an agency, municipal government, and a retail chain.

What I've learned is that I have to not express dislike for people I dislike. More than that--I have to empathize with them and understand their motives. There's no room for disliking them because it doesn't matter what I think of them. So I'm figuring out how to not dislike people.

Now, I don't work for a company whose profits are made by exploiting the poor (you'd need some disposable income for that to happen! ). So for you, Loomis, it sounds like it's good that you got out of there, if it's the kind of place were a raging, ugly sociopath succeeds is given the responsibility of leadership.

In my position, my success depends on networking and relationship-building. (Still surprises me that I do this!) It's a matter of keeping my friends close and conceiving of my enemies not as enemies, but as noble counterparts in battle with different tactics and unique experience. If I want them to see things my way, I need to understand how they conceive of things first, then produce an argument that is consistent with the values they already have. (I am fortunate to have a good manager who supports me if I'm going by the right values, and corrects me if I'm off.)

And I have to not take things personally, because a) business is business, and b) I don't control anyone but myself.

I never worked for a company that exploited the poor; I could never do that. The sorry excuse for a human who became my boss came to my company from a seriously disreputable company where he had done very well. It was one of the reasons I knew he was not to be trusted.

When I initially started at my company it was a nonprofit; but the division I worked in was later spun off as a for-profit corporation. The culture at the company gradually changed. It mutated from a company with good solid ethics into something much different.

It took me a long time to learn corporate politics and I had worked myself into a great position making very good money. I knew that showing my dislike for the boss was the kiss of death but I could not keep it inside.

 

[Daniel]

I never worked for a company that exploited the poor; I could never do that. The sorry excuse for a human who became my boss came to my company from a seriously disreputable company where he had done very well. It was one of the reasons I knew he was not to be trusted the first time I met him.

When I initially started at my company it was a nonprofit; but the division I worked in was later spun off as a for-profit corporation. The culture at the company gradually changed. It mutated from a company with good solid ethics into something much different.

It took me a long time to learn corporate politics and I had worked myself into a great position making very good money. I knew that showing my dislike for the boss was the kiss of death but I could not keep it inside.

Ah... gotcha!

That's rough. That sucks when the culture changes for the worse. If you couldn't keep it inside, I'm guessing it's best that you didn't.

 

[dragonwolf]

1) I externalize the prospect of judgment to avoid fearing judgment. Humans are generally judgmental to overcompensate for perceived weaknesses. Highly confident people (different from arrogant) are the least likely individuals to engage in judgment. Thus, if someone strongly judges me (even if they don't say it), they are probably just overcompensating, and it probably has nothing to do with me. This lowers any anxiety, and fosters my comfort-level and subsequent communication skills in that setting.

Can you please elaborate how you do this? Judgement (or feeling like I'm being judged) is one of the hardest things I deal with. I especially have issues in setting where it's hard to not feel judged, like meetings with management about performance or whatever. It sends my anxiety and stress through the roof so hard and so quickly that I've yet to find a way to fight/deal with it for any appreciable length of time.

Aspies do not read between the lines. Since we are so poor at non-verbals we listen to and read words carefully and precisely. So when you said: "You are not playing a game." This statement was a direct contradiction of what I posted and asserted that you knew better than me what I was doing. Both KassieMac and I interpreted it the same way. Then you followed with "this is natural behavior. I am NT and do it all the time." which when read literally and when following a rejection of my understanding of my own behavior becomes confrontational and condescending.

This is actually quite a good illustration of how NTs and aspies talk to each other and fail to communicate.

1. This is an awesome explanation. I wish more people (NT and AS) could/would do explanations like this.

2. Reading that mini-conversation made me realize just how much I've learned, in part thanks to the type of people I've hung out with. I knew that I learned to assume that something that seems mean on the surface is probably supposed to be good-natured teasing, sarcasm, etc., but the responses to the "natural behavior" thing showed me just how much my perception of what people say has changed.

I'm still very literal, but the people I tend to get along with the most are the more snarky, sarcastic type of people who tease each other as part of building a relationship (I know, it sounds counterintuitive and illogical, especially when put into words, but they really are nice people, who would defend their friends when the need arose).

After a time, I learned to assume that what they said isn't literally what they meant, for one reason or another. Whether I know the actual intention largely depends on how well I know the person, or the exact phrasing of things. Basically, I learned to automatically assume that there's a second meaning to just about everything, especially in casual conversation and when something seems kind of mean on the surface, and to take a moment to consider the non-literal meaning before responding. I guess I've sort of learned to become a "translator," in a sense.

Like the "you're not playing a game. It's a natural behavior. I'm NT and do it all the time," comment. I didn't take it as literally as others here. Instead, I think I took it more like how s/he meant it -- "that behavior isn't something unique to Aspies, NT people do it, too (for example, I do it, as well, and I'm NT). It's a human thing." When considered that way, it goes from condescending, arrogant, and divisive, to encouraging and unifying.

Social interaction used to be a nightmare for my son. He has somehow managed to deal with it; I find him now quite comfortable in big gatherings. He just avoids small talk. He says, he creates a superficial identity and pre-plan every social event he has to attend. The problem he faces is at workplace where office politics is still a challenge for him. How he will overcome this challenge?? Only time will tell.. I have worked for 40 years as a banker, retired as CEO of an Investment Bank. I am therefore, aware of what office politics is all about. Its cruel and brutal, like a jungle law " survival of the brutes" Its all about how well we sell ourselves and use others. Its not about how good we are at work....

If/when he gets that worked out, can you have him share his solution? I hate office politics, and it's the bane of my professional existence. Dealing with that crap is frustrating and exhausting, and trying to play the game pretty much invariably results in elevated stress and less than zero ability to function in the most crucial situations.

 

[Atay]

Hi Dragonwolf,
Sure, here are some of the steps I use to reduce my fear of judgment:
1) I identify what kind of judgment I am fearing (example: "being seen as awkward").
2) I acknowledge that judgmental people are actually overcompensating with their own insecurities.
3) Before attending the gathering, I identify what kinds of insecurities could cause someone to overcompensate with judgment (e.g. "they seem insecure about their intelligence, and may be overcompensating by pushing others down socially - which is more their comfort area").
4) Before the gathering, I identify why these kinds of behaviors are inappropriate, why I find it irritating, and what kinds of behaviors judgmental people should instead exhibit at gatherings.
5) At the gathering, I look for judgments and immediately put into practice mentally identifying their behavior as inappropriate, how it is indicative of insecurities, and why they "should" behave more appropriately.
6) I question why would I want to spend time with someone who tries to build themselves up by putting others down.
7) I allow myself to experience irritation for people whom don't choose to work on their mental health, and redirect my attention to a more positive person at the gathering.

For times I may be perceiving judgment when in actually the conversation just isn't "clicking":
I also prepare myself for the possibility that I will not "click" with someone by acknowledging that not everyone "clicks" with one another, and that is healthy and normal. If I don't click with someone, I allow myself to be specifically sad about that fact that "sometimes humans don't click, and it would've been fun if we did" (but not allowing my brain to extrapolate or create some sort of deeper meaning of this basic reality). This keeps me from going instead to shame (e.g. "I'm not good enough") or explaining discomfort as rejection as opposed to the more likely explanation of personality mis-match. I then identify that I don't really like to spend time with people with whom I don't "click," and that it's ok.

Hope that helps! - Atay

 

[Daniel]

Yes, I've found it helps to remind myself that people do things the way they do, especially stuff that irritates me, because of themselves and not because of me.

I heard Oprah tell a story once, and it stuck with me... she had this beef with someone, and she was sore about it for years. Then she was out shopping and she saw that person smiling, laughing, and having a good time. She thought--why am I carrying around this resentment when that other person gets to go on being happy?

And she remembered something she'd heard--something like, "if you knew how infrequently people spent their time thinking about you and judging you, you wouldn't worry about it so much." It helps to think that most people are actually just preoccupied with themselves.

Like the "you're not playing a game. It's a natural behavior. I'm NT and do it all the time," comment. I didn't take it as literally as others here. Instead, I think I took it more like how s/he meant it -- "that behavior isn't something unique to Aspies, NT people do it, too (for example, I do it, as well, and I'm NT). It's a human thing." When considered that way, it goes from condescending, arrogant, and divisive, to encouraging and unifying.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt. It's helpful to learn this. I eventually learned this. When my emotions get worked up, and I find myself unable to do this, I look for opportunities to withdraw and gather myself, like going to the bathroom and sitting in a stall for a few minutes.

I also prepare myself for the possibility that I will not "click" with someone by acknowledging that not everyone "clicks" with one another, and that is healthy and normal. If I don't click with someone, I allow myself to be specifically sad about that fact that "sometimes humans don't click, and it would've been fun if we did" (but not allowing my brain to extrapolate or create some sort of deeper meaning of this basic reality). This keeps me from going instead to shame (e.g. "I'm not good enough") or explaining discomfort as rejection as opposed to the more likely explanation of personality mis-match. I then identify that I don't really like to spend time with people with whom I don't "click," and that it's ok.

I've started learning to watch for when I start going to that "shame" place. Accepting myself as I am isn't always easy, but I want to keep trying! Forgiving myself as well as others. Giving myself the benefit of the doubt. Some days, when I'm feeling down, I just tell it to myself again and again.

 

[Jerome]

Hi Dragonwolf,
Sure, here are some of the steps I use to reduce my fear of judgment:
1) I identify what kind of judgment I am fearing (example: "being seen as awkward").
2) I acknowledge that judgmental people are actually overcompensating with their own insecurities.
3) Before attending the gathering, I identify what kinds of insecurities could cause someone to overcompensate with judgment (e.g. "they seem insecure about their intelligence, and may be overcompensating by pushing others down socially - which is more their comfort area").
4) Before the gathering, I identify why these kinds of behaviors are inappropriate, why I find it irritating, and what kinds of behaviors judgmental people should instead exhibit at gatherings.
5) At the gathering, I look for judgments and immediately put into practice mentally identifying their behavior as inappropriate, how it is indicative of insecurities, and why they "should" behave more appropriately.
6) I question why would I want to spend time with someone who tries to build themselves up by putting others down.
7) I allow myself to experience irritation for people whom don't choose to work on their mental health, and redirect my attention to a more positive person at the gathering.

For times I may be perceiving judgment when in actually the conversation just isn't "clicking":
I also prepare myself for the possibility that I will not "click" with someone by acknowledging that not everyone "clicks" with one another, and that is healthy and normal. If I don't click with someone, I allow myself to be specifically sad about that fact that "sometimes humans don't click, and it would've been fun if we did" (but not allowing my brain to extrapolate or create some sort of deeper meaning of this basic reality). This keeps me from going instead to shame (e.g. "I'm not good enough") or explaining discomfort as rejection as opposed to the more likely explanation of personality mis-match. I then identify that I don't really like to spend time with people with whom I don't "click," and that it's ok.

Hope that helps! - Atay

This is what I call my Three A's...Awareness, Acceptance, Awareness. I am aware of my problem relating in social situations. I accept my limitations. I take action with my by using my strengths to compensate for my limits. in dealing with my limitations, I rely on my acting skills Ikv e developed over the years mimicing NTs. I then use my interest to guide the conversations in the direction I want it to go. I pay attention to the judgement of others as a cue to change the topic to another interest. The key is to accept the judgement of others as an example of their limitation. They are, in effect, saying I lack the mental acumen to understand you. That is OK with me because I lack the emotional acumen to understand them. This acceptance has allowed me to surf the office politics with ease. There was a lot of problematic episodes that nearly cost me my job, but continuing to develop the social skills using the Three A's has made me a valued member of the team. I once was an intimidating force, who acted out of fear, but today I am a team builder and manage relationships to accomplish the task at hands. All of this was prior to myh awareness of my AS. I knew something was off with me. I knew I was different and always had been, and I finally accepted the difference.I follow a spiritual path and decided it is easier to put on carpet slippers rather than carpet the world. Now I am aware of my AS and am working on taking better care of myself. This includes seeking counseling for AS. In the meantime, I continue to be the actor. the outcast and the loner all at once. It depends on the situation as to which personna I pull out of my toolbox. I am OK with either role.

 

[Atay]

Well put, Jerome. I really like your carpet analogy, and looking at judgment as "cues" as opposed to a negative assessment of self. Much more accurate and helpful.

 

[djn]

Well put, Jerome. I really like your carpet analogy, and looking at judgment as "cues" as opposed to a negative assessment of self. Much more accurate and helpful.

Wow Ive missed a lot of helpful discussion. I amembarrassed to say it, but I didnt see the 2 and 3 and next buttons so thought the discussion ended at one page. This is a good example of the kinds of things that make me not want to be around people because they might judge me as stupid inmy mind. Loved the tips on fighting this tendency. And thanks for the nice comment GHA.

 

[djn]

djn,
This is a great thread !!!! I am sure this will help a lot of our members in adapting / building social challenges...

Thanks GHA

 

[Atay]

Yes, but if we judged you we'd just be overcompensating for our own insecurities, and thus it would have nothing to do with you. Btw, I did the exact same thing at first - not realizing the multiple page tabs. No worries.

 

[Jerome]

The Three A's are Awareness-Acceptance-Action! I typed from my phone is difficult at times.

 

[Atay]

The Three A's are Awareness-Acceptance-Action! I typed from my phone is difficult at times.

Lol; I spent a couple of minutes trying to figure out how awareness-acceptance-awareness would work. I figured it was a mindfulness technique. Awareness-Acceptance-Action makes much more sense.

 

[Jerome]

Lol; I spent a couple of minutes trying to figure out how awareness-acceptance-awareness would work. I figured it was a mindfulness technique. Awareness-Acceptance-Action makes much more sense.

From prayer I develop mindfulness:
AWARENESS.....Taking this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it. In AA I learned the world and its people are quite often wrong. I seek to understand the world rather than have the world understand me. I have people who want to debate me about the validity of alcoholism as a disease. I simply tell them I am sorry they feel that way, but their argument isn't with me. It's with the AMA! So far, very few people know of my AS. Only close friends are aware of it. I may just keep it that way. But I am going to talk to my boss about it, as I now consider him a close friend.
ACCEPTANCE......This I learned from AA as well. It was a life altering lesson: "And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation-some fact of my life unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake.Until I could accept my alcoholism (Aspergers) I could not stay sober; unless I accept life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy.I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and my attitudes."
ACTION......From the St Francis Prayer I get a course of action: Where the is hatred let me bring love. Where there is injury let me bring forgiveness. Where there is doubt let me bring faith. Where there is despair let me bring hope. Where there is sorrow let me bring joy. And where there is darkness let me bring light.....For it is in giving that we receive; it is in forgiving that we are forgiven; it is in understanding that we are understood; it is in comforting that we are coforted; it is in loving that we are loved.
This seems like quite an order, but I've had a lot of practice at perfecting it. My mind balks at it, but as the results manifest I become more willing to put my destiny at the fate of Karma!

 

[gregmcph]

It's okay to go home. And if you have a partner, it's okay for them to stay.

When it gets too much, you don't have to fight it. Kiss your other half. "Can you get a lift back home?". Go home.

And yes, finding a comfy corner, finding someone who is also low key and low pressure to sit next to. Your old aunty maybe. Nothing worse than standing in a crowd not knowing what to do with yourself.

 

[djn]

It's okay to go home. And if you have a partner, it's okay for them to stay.

When it gets too much, you don't have to fight it. Kiss your other half. "Can you get a lift back home?". Go home.

And yes, finding a comfy corner, finding someone who is also low key and low pressure to sit next to. Your old aunty maybe. Nothing worse than standing in a crowd not knowing what to do with yourself.

Good tip. Driving seperately to social things would help.