People diagnosed with autism only

[bard]

You really, really didn't want to say what?

I'm trying not to make enemies in a new place. What I said is true, though.

 

[vergil96]

But how do we know what's instinct and what's learned? I've never sat down and read books about facial expressions, body language, etc. Of course I've made some mistakes and have learnt from them, but that's more my behaviour, not the behaviour of others.

Because it's not all or nothing. You may have some autistic traits, but not others. I also have some and I doubt that I have autism right now, because it doesn't reflect my interpersonal experience. I have trouble recognizing people, but I nwver had to learn facial expressions either.

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm trying not to make enemies in a new place. What I said is true, though.

But what did you say?

Don't worry, you won't make an enemy out of me, as I don't want to make enemies in this place either.

 

[bard]

You really, really didn't want to say what?

This is probably going to get me in so much trouble for being honest.

Nursing skin-to-skin is not by pump, in skin-to-skin nursing the baby is observing the social expressions of the mother which becomes instinct over time. If that goes on for a year and a half, the baby has by instinct a vast library of social information obtained... as opposed to pump or formula. This social information is compounded by brothers and sisters interacting, by the time the child is seven and off to school, the vast library of social information gained by the child is immense. If you look up milk from nursing, the more recent science you'll find it literally changes chemistry at any moment during nursing, it is custom made for the child by the mother in skin-to-skin nursing, which means it actually grows to be more custom over time as the mother nurses the same child.

Honestly, though, some kids have more talent socially. This enables them to get over the methods that social instinct most naturally comes before seven years of age.

 

[Misty Avich]

This is probably going to get me in so much trouble for being honest.

Nursing skin-to-skin is not by pump, in skin-to-skin nursing the baby is observing the social expressions of the mother which becomes instinct over time. If that goes on for a year and a half, the baby has by instinct a vast library of social information obtained... as opposed to pump or formula. This social information is compounded by brothers and sisters interacting, by the time the child is seven and off to school, the vast library of social information gained by the child is immense. If you look up milk from nursing, the more recent science you'll find it literally changes chemistry at any moment during nursing, it is custom made for the child by the mother in skin-to-skin nursing, which means it actually grows to be more custom over time as the mother nurses the same child.

Honestly, though, some kids have more talent socially. This enables them to get over that methods that social instinct most naturally comes before seven years of age.

I don't see what is wrong with anything you said.
So what you're saying is, my social awkwardness can be a result of being bottle fed as a baby? I wasn't an only child though, and I was close to my siblings and cousins. Very close.

 

[bard]

I don't see what is wrong with anything you said.
So what you're saying is, my social awkwardness can be a result of being bottle fed as a baby? I wasn't an only child though, and I was close to my siblings and cousins. Very close.

I'm saying it's related. Socially awkward is not socially paralyzed. There's such a gamut(range) to all of this stuff. If one happened naturally well, like the siblings, and the other did not, like the nursing, you probably don't end on the spectacular social instinct end. You probably end up feeling like there's something wrong, but you can still socialize with people easily some days depending on how things go, and so forth and such.

Still, natural talent plays a part in this as well. So does the environment you grew up in.

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm saying it's related. Socially awkward is not socially paralyzed. There's such a gamut(range) to all of this stuff. If one happened naturally well, like the siblings, and the other did not, like the nursing, you probably don't end on the spectacular social instinct end. You probably end up feeling like there's something wrong, but you can still socialize with people easily some days depending on how things go, and so forth and such.

Still, natural talent plays a part in this as well. So does the environment you grew up in.

That's actually pretty interesting. Thanks for your input.

 

[Crossbreed]

@bard,

1. Though face-blindness can include misreading facial expressions, it is mainly about not recognizing people that you have met before (to varying degrees). Even for people that you do regularly associate with, you cannot describe them nor visualize them.
2. I was breastfed. It did not help with prosopagnosia,

According to THIS ARTICLE about social "odors," autistic men can distinguish their differences. We just incorrectly interpret them. That has been my experience for facial expressions,* as well.

*I can correctly distinguish pronounced expressions (like happiness, sadness, anger & terror), but not more subtle ones (like confusion vs. boredom). I can pull more of that info out of their spoken expressions.

 

[Misty Avich]

I don't have face blindness, as I can remember exactly what people look like, I always have been able to. I even remember what all the kids in my class looked like from years ago, without needing to look at class photos. And all the teachers.

Tone of voice and body language show more subtle signs than facial expressions (I read this somewhere). People use facial expressions more when talking, and when they're not then facial expressions are more pronounced.
I always know when someone is bored or uninterested, my instinct tells me from their body language and reaction, but for some reason I sometimes impulsively choose to ignore it, which is more due to ADHD. I do see NTs ignoring things like that too, as quite often I've seen someone looking bored or disinterested but the other person is still rambling away, and I wonder if they've actually noticed and are just ignoring it.

 

[vergil96]

always know when someone is bored or uninterested, my instinct tells me from their body language and reaction, but for some reason I sometimes impulsively choose to ignore it, which is more due to ADHD.

Yeah, same

I do see NTs ignoring things like that too, as quite often I've seen someone looking bored or disinterested but the other person is still rambling away, and I wonder if they've actually noticed and are just ignoring it.

Yeah

 

[vergil96]

I don't have face blindness, as I can remember exactly what people look like, I always have been able to.

Me too. But I don't remember faces in as much detail as most people do, although I remember other distinct details about people such as the way they move, their posture, way of being, gestures.

 

[Misty Avich]

When I looked up the difference between social anxiety and autism, it said that (NT) people with social anxiety have an intense fear of social situations, often fearing others' judgment. People with autism often have difficulty reading social cues.
My social awkwardness has always been about self-consciousness, shyness, fearing judgement or rejection, and having a low self-esteem, and has also been down to lacking confidence, but the ADHD contradicting these points by making me naturally interested in people and wanting to chat but not quite knowing what to say unless I know someone well. I'm not very good at striking up a conversation with a stranger, although I know how to but I just lose my confidence. I'm not so good at asking them questions, but I know the cue on when to.
Like I said, it's my responses and behaviour and feelings that I find difficult, but I don't find understanding others difficult. It's like I notice all social cues but just have difficulty knowing how to be. Lacking confidence can play a huge part too, as I tend to unintentionally get ignored.

 

[Judge]

how do I know my OCD tendencies aren't just a combination of all 3?

How do you know? The short answer? -You don't. They may be a collective aspect of your autism, or something unrelated to an event rather than neurological considerations.

Unless perhaps you can identify your obsessions and compulsions that tie directly into a sense of PTSD. For some do, and some don't. When I come out of a store and panic because I cannot find my car, I know exactly what is happening. Equally so when it comes to having to check my front door is locked as many as four times a night. Or why I may leave the house with a legally concealed weapon.

Yet I have no explanation for why I line up all the labels of food product containers in my cupboard and refrigerator. Or why each and every picture hanging on the wall must be level and equidistant with other picture frames. Or why my furniture must be either at a 90 degree or 45 degree angle relative to the walls or other furniture.

I assume I was born autistic. However most of my obsessions and compulsions didn't show up until much later...and according to my doctor largely the result of multiple tragedies occurring in the same time period.

 

[Misty Avich]

My OCD isn't the paranoid sort. It's more like overthinking and becoming troubled by perhaps a behaviour or reaction of somebody else and me obsessively analyzing and worrying and needing reassurance or closure before I can move on. I didn't know that was a form of OCD but when I spoke about it to my therapist he said it sounds like an OCD. But sometimes I just wonder if it's a combination of ASD symptoms and ADHD symptoms.

My disorganised, chaotic mind makes me a disorganised, chaotic person, and I don't have an urge to line things up neatly in the cupboard or the fridge (but my husband does). Even my art supplies are in a chaotic mess. It starts off as an organised mess but then turns into a disorganised mess, but if I put things away neatly then I have major trouble finding them again, because my mind is too chaotic to cope with neat and tidiness.
I remember one time I was given an old coin, like an antique sort of thing, and I made a point of putting it somewhere safe, in a little box in one of the drawers in the living-room. Time passed, and I had totally forgotten where I had put the coin, so I ransacked the apartment looking everywhere for it, and feeling like I was irresponsible for losing such a precious gift.
Then, when I was looking for something else, I found it just where I had safely left it - in the little box in the drawer in the living-room. The safest and most sensible place to keep it, but because it was a safe and sensual place, my chaotic mind was thinking of all the places it was less likely to be.

 

[Judge]

My OCD isn't the paranoid sort. It's more like overthinking and becoming troubled by perhaps a behaviour or reaction of somebody else and me obsessively analyzing and worrying and needing reassurance or closure before I can move on. I didn't know that was a form of OCD but when I spoke about it to my therapist he said it sounds like an OCD. But sometimes I just wonder if it's a combination of ASD symptoms and ADHD symptoms.

My disorganised, chaotic mind makes me a disorganised, chaotic person, and I don't have an urge to line things up neatly in the cupboard or the fridge (but my husband does). Even my art supplies are in a chaotic mess. It starts off as an organised mess but then turns into a disorganised mess, but if I put things away neatly then I have major trouble finding them again, because my mind is too chaotic to cope with neat and tidiness.
I remember one time I was given an old coin, like an antique sort of thing, and I made a point of putting it somewhere safe, in a little box in one of the drawers in the living-room. Time passed, and I had totally forgotten where I had put the coin, so I ransacked the apartment looking everywhere for it, and feeling like I was irresponsible for losing such a precious gift.
Then, when I was looking for something else, I found it just where I had safely left it - in the little box in the drawer in the living-room. The safest and most sensible place to keep it, but because it was a safe and sensual place, my chaotic mind was thinking of all the places it was less likely to be.

Rumination itself crosses over in terms of both autism and OCD. However it's the origins of such rumination that IMO are most likely to define one or the other. But you also have to consider one other factor. How many of us are not diagnosed in whole or in part regarding comorbid conditions period. Which might a be a lot of us as well. Making it all that murkier when it comes to identifying the origins of any particular trait or behavior.

You may be looking for a precise answer where none truly exists. In my own case one thing that to date remains a mystery to me is if I really do have comorbid ADHD.

As time goes on, when it comes to the issue of autism and everything in its orbit, it would seem there are increasingly more questions than answers.

 

[Judge]

My OCD isn't the paranoid sort.

What do you mean by "paranoid sort"? Just wondering.

I have strong reactions to theft, having been a victim of theft. With classic OCD reactions, according to my physician who formally diagnosed me. Being hyper-focused on symmetry and equidistant objects is also one of my issues. But it is all about what is in my control. I may see something outside of it that I don't like, but I won't be so bold as to change it myself, let alone mention it. Which long before my other traumas as an adult, which may well reflect my autism rather than my OCD. Frustrating though in that I have never been formally diagnosed with autism.


Apart from OCD, there is also OCPD, which strikes me as being a more troublesome condition in comparison. Where one is likely to extend their obsessions and compulsions beyond what is in their possession or control. Like feeling a need to adjust the picture frames on the wall of your doctor's waiting room.

 

[Misty Avich]

I just meant I don't have the common sort of OCD where I need to keep checking something like the door being locked.

 

[Judge]

I just meant I don't have the common sort of OCD where I need to keep checking something like the door being locked.

OCD vs. Paranoia: How Therapists Tell the Difference

To the untrained eye, OCD can appear similar to paranoia. But with the right understanding of both, the two are quite distinct.

www.treatmyocd.com

 

[Misty Avich]

It was just a way of describing the most common sort of OCD, it's not paranoia exactly. My OCD seems to be less...stereotypical, if that's the right word.

 

[Judge]

It was just a way of describing the most common sort of OCD, it's not paranoia exactly. My OCD seems to be less...stereotypical, if that's the right word.

I think any number of neurological conditions can be manifested in different ways. That there's no such notion of generic OCD any more than generic autism relative to traits, behaviors and symptoms.