More...well, less-known and more 'casual' forms of neglect?

[autism-and-autotune]

What are some more casual, less-recognizable forms of parent-to-offspring neglect? Is this what happened to me?

For starters, during high school I was not allowed to eat breakfast. My mother had very sensitive hearing and conveniently the bedroom was right above the kitchen, and apparently me 'getting out dishes and things' to craft my breakfast ( a breakfast sandwich, maybe some teabag-coffee and fruit) was causing 'too much noise.' Nothing to say about my father, though, who would prepare his coffee and toast and yogurt...

This continued throughout summers as well, when I got my first retail job. Granted, I couldn't stand the presence of my mother anyway, nor her chatty dogs--the noise was too much for me--so I'd have to leave, hours early, go out and grab some breakfast and have alone-time to myself. It may be too much information but the environment was so bad that I couldn't even really use the bathroom at home either--not in the mornings, at least. Just...the very fact that she was up-and-about always made me on edge. No wonder I never visit anymore.

Years later, when I was in university, I had a church job in the county where the house of my parents was. So, each Saturday night I'd make the hour-half drive to sleep there; rise early in the morning, grab some fast-food breakfast; perform at church, and make the two-hour drive back to campus. Now, the only problematic thing is that during the winter months, amid the snow and cold, my room upstairs had the door always closed and in the hallway leading upstairs was a huge, thick cloth covering the entryway. "It's to save money on oil," they'd say. I don't know if I necessarily ever complained about the cold upstairs, but it really was sometimes freezing. But after all, it was a place to sleep and rest, so...I guess I was grateful?

Looking back, there's these few examples. Was it neglect, or am I being a baby about it?

 

[Outdated]

There's not enough context for any of us to say if you're being a baby or not, we'd have to understand your entire family dynamics for that. But you're not alone. I always got the impression that my parents wanted the fact of children rather than actually wanting children, just so they could feel normal. A house, 2 cars and 3 kids, that's just what you do, right?

One day after work I was sitting in the kitchen and Mum said "Andrew, it was your birthday last week.".
"Yes, Mum.".
"It was your 21st."
"Yes Mum."

Then she went in to a big long rant about me not reminding her, and when the old man got home he had a go at me about it too. I didn't understand why, they hadn't remembered any of my other birthdays since I was 16.

One of the most difficult lessons in life to learn is to be able to see your parents as just people instead of putting them up on a pedestal. Once I managed that I realised that I didn't really like my parents. I don't feel any guilt about that because they never really liked me either.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I always got the impression that my parents wanted the fact of children rather than actually wanting children, just so they could feel normal.

Exactly!

 

[Shevek]

I recently have seen how much my childhood was affected by my AS mother's low noise tolerance. My early roommates thought I was sneaking around, since they never heard me coming. I learned early on that mother's job was to keep me fed and presentable, and mine was to make her look normal. We never bonded.
I was just on a Zoom call with a major expert in biofeedback, and he noted that neglect is devastating to children, and also more paralyzing than other forms of abuse, as there is nothing to react against.

 

[330]

@autism-and-autotune

Is your mom Autistic? Her sensitivity to noise made me wonder . My hearing sensitivity is most active and excruciating in the mornings. Not making excuses for her but I am just curious.

 

[Rodafina]

I agree that there’s not enough evidence here for us to determine neglect, but there is plenty to determine that you are definitely not being a baby about it. You were a young child when all of this was happening, and it would’ve been a confusing message for you. Those who were meant to care for and protect you were letting things happen where your basic needs like food, warm shelter, and safety were being neglected.

As you sort through these thoughts and feelings, don’t be too quick to disregard the confused and possibly angry and hurt feelings of the child version of you. Looking back as an adult, sometimes we can forget that the child did not know any better, but to respond to what was all around them, but that did not make it right that you had to endure those things.

 

[All-Rounder]

I really liked how whole the information this article presents is. It's about parents which were neglectful to their children, unloving and the consequences of it in adulthood.

Why Unloved Daughters Fall for Narcissists, and What to Do About It

 

[All-Rounder]

There's not enough context for any of us to say if you're being a baby or not, we'd have to understand your entire family dynamics for that. But you're not alone. I always got the impression that my parents wanted the fact of children rather than actually wanting children, just so they could feel normal. A house, 2 cars and 3 kids, that's just what you do, right?

One day after work I was sitting in the kitchen and Mum said "Andrew, it was your birthday last week.".
"Yes, Mum.".
"It was your 21st."
"Yes Mum."

Then she went in to a big long rant about me not reminding her, and when the old man got home he had a go at me about it too. I didn't understand why, they hadn't remembered any of my other birthdays since I was 16.

One of the most difficult lessons in life to learn is to be able to see your parents as just people instead of putting them up on a pedestal. Once I managed that I realised that I didn't really like my parents. I don't feel any guilt about that because they never really liked me either.

I want to point out "Yes, Mum" is prolly the only way to deal with them, and even so, they will start drama.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

What are some more casual, less-recognizable forms of parent-to-offspring neglect? Is this what happened to me?

For starters, during high school I was not allowed to eat breakfast. My mother had very sensitive hearing and conveniently the bedroom was right above the kitchen, and apparently me 'getting out dishes and things' to craft my breakfast ( a breakfast sandwich, maybe some teabag-coffee and fruit) was causing 'too much noise.' Nothing to say about my father, though, who would prepare his coffee and toast and yogurt...

This continued throughout summers as well, when I got my first retail job. Granted, I couldn't stand the presence of my mother anyway, nor her chatty dogs--the noise was too much for me--so I'd have to leave, hours early, go out and grab some breakfast and have alone-time to myself. It may be too much information but the environment was so bad that I couldn't even really use the bathroom at home either--not in the mornings, at least. Just...the very fact that she was up-and-about always made me on edge. No wonder I never visit anymore.

Years later, when I was in university, I had a church job in the county where the house of my parents was. So, each Saturday night I'd make the hour-half drive to sleep there; rise early in the morning, grab some fast-food breakfast; perform at church, and make the two-hour drive back to campus. Now, the only problematic thing is that during the winter months, amid the snow and cold, my room upstairs had the door always closed and in the hallway leading upstairs was a huge, thick cloth covering the entryway. "It's to save money on oil," they'd say. I don't know if I necessarily ever complained about the cold upstairs, but it really was sometimes freezing. But after all, it was a place to sleep and rest, so...I guess I was grateful?

Looking back, there's these few examples. Was it neglect, or am I being a baby about it?

At the risk of sounding like Geo-X, and I am, and having grown up pretty much "feral" where we didn't have parental interaction except to be ordered about. We avoided the home. We had to deal with predators on our own. We had street smarts. Children were pretty much treated as an "inconvenience" to have around unless there was work to be done, so "shut up" and "go outside". Most of us were not allowed indoors, drank from outdoor water spigots, and yes, we excitedly played out in lightning storms, howling winds, and blizzards. We rode our bikes or walked because dad had THE car at work. We rode the city buses, with our own money, and we would be several miles/kilometers away from home where our parents had no idea where we were, and they never bothered to ask when we got home. We would be 5,6,7 years old, little kids, and we were all doing whatever we wanted, totally unsupervised, and our parents had no clue what any of us were doing. Most of us were out of house before mom got up in the morning, dad already out the door and on his way to work. We all had a "side hustle" where we could earn money to buy clothing and food, from a very early age. It was a very strange thing seeing a kid with their parents in tow, at a store buying clothes, as most kids would be mortified at the thought of being seen with their parents, at all. You did NOT want to come to school with clothing your parents bought for you, seriously. PSA's at 10pm had to remind parents, "Do you know where your children are?" If we had a meal, it came from a box of dry cereal in the morning, the cheapest white bread sandwich we could make on the fly, and then, if we were lucky, mom made a "sit down" meal in the evening for dad when he got home from work, then we could eat after dad was served. Most homes did not have an air conditioner, nor enough insulation, nor good windows, leaving the house hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Frost build-up on the inside of windows was normal. The walls sweating and dripping in the summer. Not just my experience, this was pretty much the way things were for most of us in middle-class America before 1985. All of this, at the time, would never, ever, be considered neglect. It was just the way things were. We were not "traumatized", this is a laughable concept. We grew up independent and tough. We weren't afraid of anything, per se, we had respect.

Having said that, I think the term "neglect" is all relative to what the norms are of your time and culture. At the time when we grew up, "neglect" meant someone was getting physically beaten, bruised and battered from their parents. Now-a-days, anything that is not viewed as "protecting, nurturing, loving, etc." is considered "neglect". Which is open to a LOT of interpretation.

 

[Gerontius]

We were not "traumatized", this is a laughable concept. We grew up independent and tough

It really isn't a laughable concept. Do not talk flippantly about that which you don't understand yet; it makes you seem incapable of caring or understanding about much.

I had a delightfully feral childhood, which I passed by collecting wild animals and blowing up stuff in the backyard. I never went to school either and had a solidly conservative and religious upbringing.

But I still find my childhood neglect from my father left me largely incapable of emotions outside of bonhomie or rage, left me hiding a shotgun in my room in case he "snapped" and I either decided to defend myself or commit suicide, left me incapable of caring whether I lived or died. Emotional neglect is genuinely real and I ended up with a full mental breakdown last January partly due to this.

The last 7 years I have had no ability to talk to my father about anything serious. It for sure wasn't for lack of trying. I have never been able to TRUST him not to harm me, and with the autistic tendency to take everything literally, I took all his threats, idle or not, seriously.

I request you pipe down and get it together, and when other people are dealing with a problem do not sail in with a non sequitur answer about how you were raised in a different era and so therefore everyone is fine.

 

[Gerontius]

To answer the thread:

Yes, neglect is sometimes "benign", but no less destructive. I think autistic people may be especially sensitive to this because of the conditions we have.

Independence is the opposite of neglect but when one has no one who can be counted on, then independence itself suffers.

The real issue I remember was the complete lack of regard for anything you actually experience. When you can't say "this is not good,"or "this hurts," without a reply like "no it doesn't," you end up with a mess.

I was born in the 90s, raised to be the tough, masculine man of the Sixties, discovered literature and opened my life up to more than that.

The trouble was and is that I have always been afraid of anything that matters to myself. Nothing I have done was ever "good enough" unless it was something else dad wanted. My mother, God bless her, was also rather out of touch. She didn't notice that there was something wrong, and said that I needed "to pray more."

Religion didn't solve it. I found help outside of that.

My girlfriend was neglected but "nothing bad happened to her." Well, she's now physically damaged, lacks all independent skills, and has no one in her life she can trust.
I was more emotionally neglected, I guess, and have serious issues with stress affecting my heartbeat and other things. It is one of those issues I can not ever escape without leaving the family home at last.

Happy father's day to those men who are true men and do not go out of the way to harm those "below" them.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

@Gerontius, putting the whole thing, not one line, into context and perspective: I repeat. "Having said that, I think the term "neglect" is all relative to what the norms are of your time and culture. At the time when we grew up, "neglect" meant someone was getting physically beaten, bruised and battered from their parents. Now-a-days, anything that is not viewed as "protecting, nurturing, loving, etc." is considered "neglect". Which is open to a LOT of interpretation."

 

[Gerontius]

@Gerontius, putting the whole thing, not one line, into context and perspective: I repeat. "Having said that, I think the term "neglect" is all relative to what the norms are of your time and culture. At the time when we grew up, "neglect" meant someone was getting physically beaten, bruised and battered from their parents. Now-a-days, anything that is not viewed as "protecting, nurturing, loving, etc." is considered "neglect". Which is open to a LOT of interpretation."

It sounded relativistic and I do not think a relative interpretation holds water. (I am more of an objectivist.)

Yes, unfortunately, I had read your post. I also found it wanting in several places, and chose to focus on one particular place. I disagree with much more than just one line but the battery on my telephone is low.
What I do agree with is that independence and strength are important qualities and that children raised with small responsibilities will quickly learn competence at big responsibility. However, I would say responsibility can be learned many different ways and for many, a strong and actually functional relationship with family members is a better solution.

 

[Hylian]

Some things I've recognized as neglect (whether emotional, physical, academic or developmental) from my childhood, which may or may not be "obvious" forms of it:

- Not being allowed outside and having to be quietly by myself 24/7 from the time I was a toddler
- Not being taken to a proper doctor to diagnose my lifelong debilitating digestive disorder until truancy court made them take me as a teenager, and only being taken to doctors when legally necessary
- Never being helped with school work or encouraged to do it, and being treated as if my academic progress didn't matter
- Not putting any effort to actually get me diagnosed w/ ASD and get me continued support, especially for my diagnosed dyscalculia and ADHD, and even taking me off of ADHD medication for no reason because they "didn't like it", which all affected my development
- Being expected to basically be a therapist and mediator for my parents since 3-4 y.o., and having to listen to things and give them support for things they'd never even care about if they happened to me
- Being expected to be unaffected by my parents and siblings issues, somehow being expected to tolerate things better than them + getting yelled at for reacting or developing my own issues due to it
- Not being taught proper hygiene or having proper hygiene practices enforced (like brushing my teeth, bathing regularly, how often to change menstrual products, etc.) and being shamed for not magically developing good habits

Some of these things might be "normal/common" forms of parental "laziness", and older generations might laugh at the idea of some of them being neglect, but they are all forms of neglect and I know I'm not the only one who dealt with things like this as a kid and is now negatively affected by it.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

It sounded relativistic and I do not think a relative interpretation holds water. (I am more of an objectivist.)

Yes, unfortunately, I had read your post. I also found it wanting in several places, and chose to focus on one particular place. I disagree with much more than just one line but the battery on my telephone is low.
What I do agree with is that independence and strength are important qualities and that children raised with small responsibilities will quickly learn competence at big responsibility. However, I would say responsibility can be learned many different ways and for many, a strong and actually functional relationship with family members is a better solution.

Fair enough. I appreciate your perspective. I will keep this in mind. However, I am more of a relativist, where context and perspective are most important to understanding, where many of these concepts of "fairness/unfairness, justice/injustice, right/wrong, equality/inequality, etc." are nothing more than a mind construct that we create for ourselves based upon our perception of our world, that very few things are "black" and "white", but rather on some sort of continuum. We create some sort of "expectation", and then if the "reality" is something different, we make some sort of judgement about the outcome. It is these sorts of things that often result in generational, cultural, religious, and political differences. Different perspectives. How we handle situations intellectually and psychologically will be different. My expectations of the people and world around me, clearly are different than my children. They get upset about things my wife and I just look at each other, smile, nod our heads in agreement, and say, "So, why are you upset?" We just look at the world as it is now or in the past, and is simply "dealt with" using logic, whereas they get emotional, and see an injustice that needs to be stopped, with their minds on the future.

So, in my world, my life, my perspective, most of us, if we live long enough, will have experienced some horrible things and horrible people. How we deal with it will give us strength, or leave us weakened. Personally, I was always taught to look at these horrible things as "life lessons", that scars make you wise, and you are not a "victim". There are no "problems" but rather "opportunities", and of course, people will stand in your way as obstacles, so go around them. I don't understand the mindset of people trying to get through life, looking in their "rear view mirror", blaming all the crappy people and experiences in their past for their lot in life now.

You will likely disagree with all of that based upon your education and life experience, and that's OK with me. I will still respect what you have to say because I understand the importance of perspective.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

There's not enough context for any of us to say if you're being a baby or not, we'd have to understand your entire family dynamics for that. But you're not alone. I always got the impression that my parents wanted the fact of children rather than actually wanting children, just so they could feel normal. A house, 2 cars and 3 kids, that's just what you do, right?

One day after work I was sitting in the kitchen and Mum said "Andrew, it was your birthday last week.".
"Yes, Mum.".
"It was your 21st."
"Yes Mum."

Then she went in to a big long rant about me not reminding her, and when the old man got home he had a go at me about it too. I didn't understand why, they hadn't remembered any of my other birthdays since I was 16.

One of the most difficult lessons in life to learn is to be able to see your parents as just people instead of putting them up on a pedestal. Once I managed that I realised that I didn't really like my parents. I don't feel any guilt about that because they never really liked me either.

True; for greater context I'd have to relay way much more about my whole childhood/adulthood living with them. But...your words about just so they could feel normal--I constantly asked myself, Why did my parents even have children?

I like your last paragraph a lot-- it took me years to be able to even admit that I didn't like my parents. "Oh no, you can't say anything about your parents!" a lot of folks will say. Too bad. I just...I appreciate the good they've done but I really don't like who they are as people.

Thanks for sharing your perspective!

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I recently have seen how much my childhood was affected by my AS mother's low noise tolerance. My early roommates thought I was sneaking around, since they never heard me coming. I learned early on that mother's job was to keep me fed and presentable, and mine was to make her look normal. We never bonded.
I was just on a Zoom call with a major expert in biofeedback, and he noted that neglect is devastating to children, and also more paralyzing than other forms of abuse, as there is nothing to react against.

Hmm, that's sad to read; I'm sorry that you had to grow up in a place like that.

I think that makes sense--but maybe most folks don't see neglect as 'true abuse' because it leaves no physical scars. But even something not physical can be more painful.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

@autism-and-autotune

Is your mom Autistic? Her sensitivity to noise made me wonder . My hearing sensitivity is most active and excruciating in the mornings. Not making excuses for her but I am just curious.

My mother struggles with a slew of different troubles. NPD, BPD, depression, dyslexia..and yes, most likely ADD/autism. My father merely struggles with CEN and autism too.

But the worst thing is that they'll never admit to these issues, nor work on them. And no, it's no an 'excuse' if she's never tried to be better. Why some people are so forcibly ignorant and in denial about themselves, I'll never know.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I agree that there’s not enough evidence here for us to determine neglect, but there is plenty to determine that you are definitely not being a baby about it. You were a young child when all of this was happening, and it would’ve been a confusing message for you. Those who were meant to care for and protect you were letting things happen where your basic needs like food, warm shelter, and safety were being neglected.

As you sort through these thoughts and feelings, don’t be too quick to disregard the confused and possibly angry and hurt feelings of the child version of you. Looking back as an adult, sometimes we can forget that the child did not know any better, but to respond to what was all around them, but that did not make it right that you had to endure those things.

Ah--thank you for helping to validate what I feel. Or what I've been through. Even as an adult, it's still confusing to try and piece together. But what's even sadder is that I never thought for once that it wasn't normal. I mean...I knew I hated living there at times, but I didn't realize its psychological full effect til I got out.

True, you're right. Healing my inner child has been a task that's taken the better part of two years now. It's...been hard, but at least I have my fiance to help me. watching the show Bluey has been really insightful, for example.

 

[autism-and-autotune]

I really liked how whole the information this article presents is. It's about parents which were neglectful to their children, unloving and the consequences of it in adulthood.

Why Unloved Daughters Fall for Narcissists, and What to Do About It

Thank you very much for sharing this article--I'll be reading it over the next few days.