Maslow’s Hierarchy and Autism.

[Lilacleia16]

I feel that some people focus on aesthetics and want a lot of money to create the perfect look for themselves or their home. Some people seek fame because they have a deep need for esteem and found their talents and honed them to get recognition. Some people focus on transcendence and seek to be altruistic and feed the poor or some other humanitarian cause. Some people focus on belonging and put all of their self into their significant other. Some people reach self actualization and appear to be a wild success with finding a soulmate, raising children, accomplishing goals that lead to a purpose like a career. Some people are always learning and stuck in a cognitive pattern. But I feel that as an autistic person, I never quite make it to any of those higher levels because I am focused on how hard it is to meet my basic physiological needs like preparing meals for myself, cooking, drinking enough water, getting the temperature right in my room so I am not overstimulated, cleaning, getting enough sleep, fixing my hair, brushing my teeth, putting on sunscreen and deodorant, picking out clothes for the day (which can take 3 hours every night), showering (I have a fear of water and faint from the overstimulation sometimes), making sure I have a roof over my head even though I can’t hold down a job for more than 3 months. So that once I finally meet homeostasis and get these needs met on my own, I can’t make it past the next level which is safety needs. The world is a violent place for my 5 senses. I hear too many sounds and it’s dizzying, I can’t control the temperature outside and it’s enough to throw me into shock and have me rocking myself like a baby. I can’t look people in the eye to know if they are friend or foe and I can’t always recognize by their facial expressions or sometimes their faces lie so that I don’t feel safe enough to be a friend. I desire belonging and sometimes I make it past safety for a sweet spot of time and it’s then that I desire companionship with another human. I would make another human my whole world if they would be patient with me til I could reach my sweet spot to be able to give back to them. But I am stopped short because I can’t communicate the language of companionship. I’m not versed in it and I don’t make it to the sweet spot often enough to practice it. Most of my time is spent simply surviving. Am I alone in this?

I also theorize that you could go down the pyramid and start at the top with transcendence (being close to God) and a lot of autistics are close to God. Orthodox Jews recognize this fact as well and see us as having a special relationship with God. I even think we can get through self actualization and have a soulmate, a career, and children. We could go all the way backwards but the challenge remains the same…belonging would be harder to get to because it would be almost at the bottom if we were going top down. We would have a soulmate but still feel a void like we don’t quite belong.


1. So which parts of the pyramid have you accomplished?
2. Are you going top down or bottoms up?
3. What’s your autism diagnosis?

 

[Levitator]

Pyramids are for mummies, slave drivers, and others who are dead inside.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I do not know in terms of that pyramid..I do love for both belonging and love.
I do not know how to find belonging. I often want it in a family setting like a family that is there for me as much as possible and parents I can talk to when struggling.
Seems like a lot of ask.
I have my faith but it has been hurting me lately.
I long for help with needs I do my best. I long for someone to do it all when tired and for me to just sit in bed and relax.
I long for everything done, including the water in the shower turned on, the bed pulled down for me to jump in and the toothpaste put on my toothbrush.
All my activities on my bedside table.
But now I think I do not deserve it anymore or it may feel foreign or like I am someone who is stupid and should be able to do more.
I have always long to fall into the arms of someone who loved me in the platonic sense in the sense they would just see and feel my pain and understand how much I have hurt. And just love me unconditionally for me.
And this person to me since there is no one else is often God but lately even feels like God cannot see my pain and is more punishing and hurting than loving

 

[Lilacleia16]

I do not know in terms of that pyramid..I do love for both belonging and love.
I do not know how to find belonging. I often want it in a family setting like a family that is there for me as much as possible and parents I can talk to when struggling.
Seems like a lot of ask.
I have my faith but it has been hurting me lately.
I long for help with needs I do my best. I long for someone to do it all when tired and for me to just sit in bed and relax.
I long for everything done, including the water in the shower turned on, the bed pulled down for me to jump in and the toothpaste put on my toothbrush.
All my activities on my bedside table.
But now I think I do not deserve it anymore or it may feel foreign or like I am someone who is stupid and should be able to do more.
I have always long to fall into the arms of someone who loved me in the platonic sense in the sense they would just see and feel my pain and understand how much I have hurt. And just love me unconditionally for me.
And this person to me since there is no one else is often God but lately even feels like God cannot see my pain and is more punishing and hurting than loving

This is on my playlist:

 

[Lilacleia16]

This song helps me too:

 

[Levitator]

I do not know in terms of that pyramid..I do love for both belonging and love.
I do not know how to find belonging. I often want it in a family setting like a family that is there for me as much as possible and parents I can talk to when struggling.
Seems like a lot of ask.
I have my faith but it has been hurting me lately.
I long for help with needs I do my best. I long for someone to do it all when tired and for me to just sit in bed and relax.
I long for everything done, including the water in the shower turned on, the bed pulled down for me to jump in and the toothpaste put on my toothbrush.
All my activities on my bedside table.
But now I think I do not deserve it anymore or it may feel foreign or like I am someone who is stupid and should be able to do more.
I have always long to fall into the arms of someone who loved me in the platonic sense in the sense they would just see and feel my pain and understand how much I have hurt. And just love me unconditionally for me.
And this person to me since there is no one else is often God but lately even feels like God cannot see my pain and is more punishing and hurting than loving

People don't understand that they are the ones who cause hurt, and it is they who are being judged.

 

[Fino]

If you go top down, you dead.

 

[Tom]

I don't remember there being so many levels. I thought there were only 5. Pets, chocolate, caffine, love and Mike & Ikes.

 

[AprilR]

I am on the physiological needs level also. Like you said, even planning what i will wear, drinking enough water, planning meals and shopping is hard.

And safety is something i have rarely experienced also. Let alone love and belonging.

 

[Hypnalis]

1. So which parts of the pyramid have you accomplished?
2. Are you going top down or bottoms up?

It's a hierarchy. It was originally more accurately about needs rather than wants compared to the newer versions.

It was never going to work perfectly, but there's been too much "slice and dice" applied to it over the years (the curse of popularity is the inevitable application of "pop science" to good ideas).

So you can't start at the top:
* If the lowest level isn't met, you're struggling to survive.
* If the second level isn't true, you're unlikely to have the energy available to participate in society (L3)
etc

BTW I believe @Tom is correct - I also remember fewer levels (5). It's been deliberately changed to serve a different purpose, and now it doesn't do its original job well.

The changes make your questions more reasonable though, so my answers:

1. I don't "check accomplishment boxes" in that sense. I don't believe it's useful for needs (in the original sense of the word)
For example how can you rate "esteem"?
It's one of many many "human-layer" things where too little is a genuine problem, but anything more than "enough" doesn't add much, and can generate serious problems (for example, "too much" self esteem is a reliable path to "learned narcissism")
Now that "need" has been redefined to mean "nice to have" whenever it's politically convenient, It's possible to rate some of "new needs" on a linear scale, but that's only with the "improved" version of the concept: i.e. using "need = want". Linear scaling doesn't work with everything, notably actual human needs, as explained above.

2. As above: IMO the pyramid is useful only if you start from the bottom up. Otherwise it's a poor instrument for self-assessment or guidance. Any of the layers that allow an independent "start in the middle" break the hierarchy, so they should be used in a different context (perhaps "Not really Maslow but we like the name recognition List of Wants"
Bottom up: I've never had a serious issue with anything on that list, but I've been lucky.
A sufficiency of (1) and (2) has been fairly easy; Typical Aspie deficits have affected L3 negatively, but L4 positively (sounds weird, but it's true); L5 easy (partly due to my Aspie nature); L6 looks "modern fake" to me, but I have nothing to complain about; L7 - negatively affected by "disorganized ADHD", but all boxes ticked I guess; L8 - see L5 (cognition). "Transcendental Needs" is another "modern fake" to me. Humans have a spiritual side - I'm comfortable with mine, so no complaints.


3. Undiagnosed, 99% confident I'm HFA, but that didn't exist when I might have been interested in a diagnosis.

 

[Rodafina]

In Maslow's theory, the pyramid depicts a process of building on skills from the foundational categories. For example, Maslow suggests that one cannot focus on achieving a feeling of safety and security until their physiological needs like breath, food, and water have been met. The base of the pyramid is focused on physiological needs and moving up the pyramid includes more psychological needs.

What is Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs?​

According to Maslow (1943, 1954), human needs were arranged in a hierarchy, with physiological (survival) needs at the bottom, and the more creative and intellectually oriented ‘self-actualization’ needs at the top.


Maslow argued that survival needs must be satisfied before the individual can satisfy the higher needs. The higher up the hierarchy, the more difficult it is to satisfy the needs associated with that stage, because of the interpersonal and environmental barriers that inevitably frustrate us.


Higher needs become increasingly psychological and long-term rather than physiological and short-term, as in the lower survival-related needs.

Once the physiological needs are met, Maslow did suggest that moving up the pyramid was not a strictly linear process.

... Maslow’s hierarchy of needs doesn't follow a strict linear progression. Individuals can feel various needs at the same time or shift between levels.

Maslow continued to refine his theory based on the concept of a hierarchy of needs over several decades (Maslow, 1943, 1962, 1987).

Regarding the structure of his hierarchy, Maslow (1987) proposed that the order in the hierarchy “is not nearly as rigid” (p. 68) as he may have implied in his earlier description.

Maslow noted that the order of needs might be flexible based on external circumstances or individual differences. For example, he notes that for some individuals, the need for self-esteem is more important than the need for love. For others, the need for creative fulfillment may supersede even the most basic needs.

Maslow (1987) also pointed out that most behavior is multi-motivated and noted that “any behavior tends to be determined by several or all of the basic needs simultaneously rather than by only one of them” (p. 71).

Source:

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a pyramid of the needs that motivate people. Individuals most basic needs, at the base of the pyramid, are physiological. Once they have fulfilled these needs, people move on to their safety needs, social well-being, self-esteem then ultimately their need for...

www.simplypsychology.org

---

I've never seen this 7 layer version. The original Hierarchy of Needs had 5 layers.

 

[Xinyta]

View attachment 126838

I feel that some people focus on aesthetics and want a lot of money to create the perfect look for themselves or their home. Some people seek fame because they have a deep need for esteem and found their talents and honed them to get recognition. Some people focus on transcendence and seek to be altruistic and feed the poor or some other humanitarian cause. Some people focus on belonging and put all of their self into their significant other. Some people reach self actualization and appear to be a wild success with finding a soulmate, raising children, accomplishing goals that lead to a purpose like a career. Some people are always learning and stuck in a cognitive pattern. But I feel that as an autistic person, I never quite make it to any of those higher levels because I am focused on how hard it is to meet my basic physiological needs like preparing meals for myself, cooking, drinking enough water, getting the temperature right in my room so I am not overstimulated, cleaning, getting enough sleep, fixing my hair, brushing my teeth, putting on sunscreen and deodorant, picking out clothes for the day (which can take 3 hours every night), showering (I have a fear of water and faint from the overstimulation sometimes), making sure I have a roof over my head even though I can’t hold down a job for more than 3 months. So that once I finally meet homeostasis and get these needs met on my own, I can’t make it past the next level which is safety needs. The world is a violent place for my 5 senses. I hear too many sounds and it’s dizzying, I can’t control the temperature outside and it’s enough to throw me into shock and have me rocking myself like a baby. I can’t look people in the eye to know if they are friend or foe and I can’t always recognize by their facial expressions or sometimes their faces lie so that I don’t feel safe enough to be a friend. I desire belonging and sometimes I make it past safety for a sweet spot of time and it’s then that I desire companionship with another human. I would make another human my whole world if they would be patient with me til I could reach my sweet spot to be able to give back to them. But I am stopped short because I can’t communicate the language of companionship. I’m not versed in it and I don’t make it to the sweet spot often enough to practice it. Most of my time is spent simply surviving. Am I alone in this?

I also theorize that you could go down the pyramid and start at the top with transcendence (being close to God) and a lot of autistics are close to God. Orthodox Jews recognize this fact as well and see us as having a special relationship with God. I even think we can get through self actualization and have a soulmate, a career, and children. We could go all the way backwards but the challenge remains the same…belonging would be harder to get to because it would be almost at the bottom if we were going top down. We would have a soulmate but still feel a void like we don’t quite belong.


1. So which parts of the pyramid have you accomplished?
2. Are you going top down or bottoms up?
3. What’s your autism diagnosis?View attachment 126838

I'd be mindful with what information you take at face value on the internet. Alot has become muddled by political bias, in this day and age. The internet isn't the amazing information highway it use to be, anymore. I mean it still kinda is. Just the wrong kinda information mostly.

In any case. I am entirely with @Hypnalis and @Rodafina on this one.

The pyramid in Rodafina's post is the most reliable version of the hierarchy of needs. And no matter who we are. We start at the bottom and work up to the higher levels. The first three bottom levels, if a child is lucky now-a-days, should be provided by the parents, for the most part. Some of it comes from us too. Having safety, security, and love/belonging helps with feeding and encouraging the next two steps that we pursue all on our own.

There are both ND and NT kids that can have hardship with the first three. Especially with security and love/belonging.

One thing I will agree with is that we NDs can get stuck at the bottom, if the second and third levels are not met by parents in a sufficient way. I'm one of those that suffers from that problem. And unfortunately, for those like myself that are learning this later in life. We have to pursue the higher levels, mostly, on our own, due to that. This will be harder for us NDs than it would for NTs.

Truthfully. The only reason why I even know this much, is because my Uncle has talked to me before about the Hierarchy of Needs in the past. Trying to get me to understand where I stuck myself because of emotional neglect and mentally being destroyed.

 

[TBRS1]

It is extremely difficult for many people to move up the pyramid - MOST people in the entire developed world are perpetually struggling to meet basic survival needs.

For people with psychological issues, meeting basic survival needs is even more difficult. But not impossible.

Also, life issues will frequently force one back down levels (laid off from work? Go back to "go" and try again).

Although moving up from the lowest levels is necessary before moving up too high, once basic survival needs are met, the upper levels are developed as a cluster or cloud, simultaneously.

The highest level, transcendence, sounds impossible, but isn't. Marlow wasn't especially clear about this level, but one thing he did say was that, in one form, transcendence is "...behaving and relating, as ends rather than means, to oneself, to significant others, to human beings in general, to other species, to nature, and to the cosmos".

in plain English - if you do what you do because doing it is what you want to do, not because it leads to a required end product, that's transcendent.

"Transcendence" describes my "special interests." ASD folks get to skip the entire pyramid and go straight to the top.

 

[Aspychata]

That pyramid just made me feel like a failure. On many different levels. Because l have many issues, very sensitive to temperatures, sensitive to clothes, and fussy about foods, and need huge amounts of caffeine, and feeling safe is at the top of my pyramid due to a myriad of experiences. My pyramid also has one layer of just being isolated on certain days

 

[Levitator]

I don't get why it has to be a pyramid, because it looks like a triangle to me.

 

[Tom]

It's a little iteresting to note that Maslow (died 1970) never used a pyramid diagram. That came from someone else. Also in describing it as a hierarchy one could also visualize it as a top down system of priorities with food/shelter, etc at the top.

To some extent Maslow was stating the obvious, and in a simple way, but that does not take away from the value it had in American Psychology in 1943 when his paper on a theory of hierarchy of needs was published. About the same time as the pioneers in autism study were making and publishiing their discoveries. And stating something in a simple way is often very useful, particularly with a subject that has swarms of distracting peripherals clouding the picture. At least I find this approach very clarifying - and more likely to look at.

I don't know what a better model would look like but one observation I would make is the 'Esteem' level may be more important then indicated. People place a lot of importance on their place (and improving it) within their pecking orders. Thomas Wolfe guessed as much as 80% of their time and effort is motivated by it. That is probably too much, but I think points in the right direction. If I was to conjur up a guess i would say it may come instinctively from a time when status in the pack was just about everything, the best food, shelter, mate, etc.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Rodafina has saved me from having to look up my old nursing books. As has been pointed out, the original pyramid had five levels and it was generally assumed you had to get one level satisfied before you could move onto others.

It was pretty clear to me at that point in time. Now, I think most of the people in this world struggle with the first level. But I know from experience that some people in extreme poverty, still have love, happiness and family, spirituality and transcendence.

 

[Cryptid]

Maslow's concept, while having merit, is not the be-all and do-all of human existence.

Also, it is often mis-interpreted by non-professionals and people with emotional issues.

 

[Lilacleia16]

I am on the physiological needs level also. Like you said, even planning what i will wear, drinking enough water, planning meals and shopping is hard.

And safety is something i have rarely experienced also. Let alone love and belonging.

It’s nice to hear I am not alone.

 

[AuAL]

@Tom, @Hypnalis, @Rodafina, yes, Maslow propounded a hierarchy of needs with five categories, from the basic physiological needs (that you need to satisfy to survive) through safety and security, social needs, esteem and self-actualisation. He believed human motivation was driven by unmet needs - if you have your physiological needs met and control over your life circumstances, you would then be motivated by social needs, and so on. He did not actually show a pyramid in his published work.