How do you handle guilt trips?

[DogwoodTree]

Does anyone else have people who use guilt trips regularly to manipulate others around them?

My family uses this tactic frequently. Someone isn't happy about something. So they blame the situation on someone else in an effort to make that person feel guilty about it and maybe fix it out of a sense of obligation.

Sometimes I can just brush it off, and sometimes I don't even realize it's a guilt trip until later. The ones that really get me angry, though, are the ones where I realize during the conversation that the person is being manipulative, and I'm struggling to maintain control of my own emotions and not lash back at them, but I can't think fast enough to have a good comeback to defend myself. Then five minutes after the conversation is over, or two hours, or two days, I finally see so clearly exactly what was so wrong with what the person said. But by then it's too late.

This just happened with my mom. We were talking on the phone about plans for her to get some time in with my kids before she leaves on a trip. She asked about one time, but we already had something planned. Then she realized her calendar didn't have another time easily available for her for another week. So she got all whiny, "I just want to see the kids. I feel like I haven't had any time with them for months!"

As soon as we hung up, I realized...she just spent the majority of last weekend with them, for a week before that she was on a trip, and for the month before that DH and I had to start putting the brakes on her time with the kids because she was taking them for this or that or something else every weekend and sometimes throughout the week. So then I would be working long hours through the week and get to the weekend and not get time with my own kids because my mom had already taken off with them somewhere!

It just makes me so angry, that she would blame me for her feeling so lonely...that she would use my kids to try to alleviate her loneliness (why can't she get some ADULT friends??)...that she would get so grabby with my kids and make it out like I'm the problem because sometimes I say "no" to her.

If I could think of quick, snarky comebacks to keep people from feeling like they can get away with making me guilty for their problems, seems like it would help. But I just don't see through the problem that quickly.

To make matters worse, this call happened at the end of a stressful day where she had been fussing at me for not getting enough work done this week, despite the fact I put in a hard week and I'm exhausted and did the best I could. I'm not a magician. I can't complete two weeks' worth of work in one week. It just doesn't work that way.

And now we're spending hours tomorrow with more family events (remember how my youngest sister planned her own birthday party? yep...that's tomorrow). And Mom asked for dinner with the kids on Monday (which means I have to go because she can't handle all 4 by herself). And a sleepover with at least one of the kids next weekend. And invited herself to come along for an outing with me, my DDs, and one of their friends next weekend. And really wants to take the kids to visit her mom this weekend, even though we have a church event tomorrow evening that they would miss.

I kind-of said no to the out-of-town trip, and told her I'm just not comfortable letting them travel when I'm stressed. I get worried about them, and I can't handle the stress of all that when I'm stressed about work, too. But then later she said to let her know if DH was okay with their going with her. Did she not hear what I said??

I wish she would get a life of her own and stop sucking the life out of us...and then making me feel like I'm being so insensitive to her when I say no to some of the time she wants with us.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I think I'm going to start tracking on the calendar exactly how much time she spends with our kids, and use that as evidence for why I have to say no to her sometimes. I don't know how else to help me say no without feeling so guilty for it, or feel so taken advantage of when I say yes.

 

[apsie]

When all else fails, my mother and my best friend try this tactic all the time.
I don't handle it well at all because I usually only figure out later what they were doing.

 

[Ylva]

I am that naive too, but I've figured it's something about my own philosophy about people. (My mother always told me to always assume the best about people. Worst advice I've ever taken.) Currently working on being able to ignore people who try sending me on guilt trips.

 

[Voltekka_MK3]

The people who use this tactic are really acting immature which is quite embarrassing for "adults".

I just laugh at it really. During the guilt trips I really am thinking of something else so much that I really forget its a guilt trip. But I can instantly tell if it is a guilt trip.

It usually ends in a debate.

When they talk to me and try to make me feel guilty, I get their words as ammunition and plan my retort rebuttal at home which 96% of the time I am correct in because I proved them wrong by using their own words against them with them later apologizing and acknowledging that I am right and that they were in the wrong for the guilt trip.

But yeah I just can't help but laugh whenever someone gives me a guilt trip because its just funny to me, that someone would waste their time and money, putting on a sulky face and being forcefully quiet to make me feel guilty. I just naturally laugh at it. But I guess I am very De-sensetized as well so I probably can handle a lot more things very well.

 

[DogwoodTree]

(My mother always told me to always assume the best about people. Worst advice I've evertaken.) Currently working on being able to ignore people who try ssending me on guilt trips.

Let me know when you figure out how to do that...

She was not successful...this time...in drawing me into the argument. But I felt like I didn't have the freedom to say no, or even to say, "we'll talk about it and let you know."

I really, really, really have to quit letting her needs dictate my decisions.

 

[DogwoodTree]

But yeah I just can't help but laugh whenever someone gives me a guilt trip because its just funny to me, that someone would waste their time and money, putting on a sulky face and being forcefully quiet to make me feel guilty. I just naturally laugh at it. But I guess I am very De-sensetized as well so I probably can handle a lot more things very well.

I can do this pretty well with my dad. He is so ridiculously obvious about it, I'm honestly amazed he thinks anyone will ever fall for it.

My mom is much sneakier, and I'm much more protective of her because of the way things were when I was a kid. It's so hard to let go and let her deal with her own problems. It's especially difficult because I don't know what are appropriate boundaries when it comes to her time with my kids. They like being with her...But she uses them as a crutch to not face her own loneliness and neediness.

 

[Voltekka_MK3]

DogwoodTree I see. My mom is very easy to figure out for me though so I don't have problems with her. About the kids situation, unfortunately that is something that I cannot comment on because I am not a parent nor do I intend to be.

However, what I will say is that it sounds as if you have this responsibility feeling that you feel responsible for your mother. I would say that she's an adult and you're an adult and I think she kind of has put this invisible "guilt debt" that makes you feel that you need to protect her. I guess you are right about the manipulation and sneaky part.

But ask the kids if they really want to go see her. I wouldn't force them to go to her just because she feels lonely. But again I can't fully comment on this since this is something out of my reach.

But I would say that you should keep her in contact and maybe settle and confront her on some things and problems that you had in the past since it seems like its quite an issue on your chest and has affected you negatively.

 

[Cali Cat]

I think I'm going to start tracking on the calendar exactly how much time she spends with our kids, and use that as evidence for why I have to say no to her sometimes.

That sounds like a good plan. Let me suggest that you track the time on the calendar, and then copy the pages of the calendar (or rewrite them on another calendar). Have these copies ready and give them to her the next time she gets upset because you say no to her. Don't even bother getting into a verbal debate over it. Just tell her you need to spend some time with your children too, and that you will provide her with evidence that she's seen the kids frequently. If she's with you, hand her the calendar. If she's on the phone, put the page copies in the mail and send them to her. She may even be upset by this, but at least you've proven you're not keeping the kids from her.

 

[DogwoodTree]

But ask the kids if they really want to go see her. I wouldn't force them to go to her just because she feels lonely.

Oh they adore her. She takes them out to eat, buys them things, tells them how wonderful they are. If they make a mistake, it's my fault, not theirs.

 

[Randomperson]

Dogwood, threaten to put her in an old folks home and never visit, that outta stop the guild trip crap *nodding*.

 

[May Black]

what do the kids want?
Can you make up a schedule for your mom to hang out with them? Maybe one weekend a month, one week in summer, one afternoon during the week? Something that works for both of you.

 

[DogwoodTree]

DH and I talked last night to try to see what we need to do to keep me from feeling like I can't say no to her. Our schedule isn't predictable enough to give her "scheduled visitation"...and I don't want that much rigidity. But I also want to feel like I can say no just because I want to keep my kids with me sometimes, not only because the calendar dictates they're already busy that day. DH agreed.

So we decided that neither of us would feel obligated to say yes during the conversations when Mom asks for the kids. Our response is either no (schedule conflict) or "we'll talk about it together and let you know." That way we get away from the pressure she puts on us so we can instead make our own decisions.

I strongly believe grandkids and grandparents should get time together. But my preference at the moment matters too, and I just can't hear myself when she gives me that guilt trip pity party stuff.

 

[theblitz6794]

I'm so used to guilt trips that I'm very willing to take them head on. Suppose someone wants me to do "X" for me and I am justified in not wanting to. First I come up with legitimate reasons (sometimes with a bit of a sugarcoat if the reasons run inappropriately deep). If they press, I press back. If they call me an asshole, I remind them I have a reputation of being an asshole and laugh in their face. If they press the asshole part, I remind them of the antiasshole things I do and how I'm not just an asshole and what not. At this point, the argument has taken a turn for the abstract and it's fairly easy for me to slaughter anyone in an abstract argument. Those that are good abstract thinkers I never have friction with anyway.

Just take guilt trippers head on if they don't back down. You've been bullied before right? Being bullied senselessly was a very useful life circumstance for me, in retrospect of course. I just imagine the guilt tripper is an 8th grade bully before their guilt can get to me.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I have two women in my life like that, and the more they see the kid the more they whine about how they don't. So I point out how little the other relatives are getting to see them who want to just as bad, and that they shouldn't be so greedy an inconsiderate of the others, and generally lecture them on how being miserable and trying to make everybody else miserable is a sign of poor character. It's not like we're hiding in a bunker in Alaska, everybody gets to see the kids at least once a month if not multiple times a month. I also remind them of the great-grandparents who basically only get to see them on holidays and birthdays because it's difficult going to see them, and they're simply grateful and happy to see us rather than ticked about the frequency of visits.

 

[Ylva]

Good one. Guilt-trip back.

 

[DogwoodTree]

...legitimate reasons (sometimes with a bit of a sugarcoat if the reasons run inappropriately deep).

This is a really important point--that even if I have legitimate reasons for saying no beyond just my own, personal preference, I don't have to explain those reasons to anyone. I think about the times my mom has been critical because I stopped working earlier at night than usual but still didn't get to sleep until later into the night and then had to sleep a little later in the morning to make up for it. It's really none of her business to know the real reason that happens sometimes, and I'm sure she really doesn't want to know when DH and I have had our times together...she doesn't realize that if she keeps digging for an explanation in those situations, that is often enough the "reason" she would find. But then I feel guilty for not being completely honest with her. I should just be able to keep my explanation general--if I offer an explanation at all--and not get sucked in to trying to justify myself to her!

Just take guilt trippers head on if they don't back down. You've been bullied before right? Being bullied senselessly was a very useful life circumstance for me, in retrospect of course. I just imagine the guilt tripper is an 8th grade bully before their guilt can get to me.

I wish I could think that quickly on my feet. Yes I was bullied, but mostly by family (my step-father was very abusive, for example, and my dad was and is emotionally overdependent and mentally ill and took it out on me). I'm more like a cowed dog than a laughing hyena with people like this.

I really do rely heavily on scripts for conversations. If it's a conversation I expect to go deeper than the usual chit-chat, I try to script out every possible scenario ahead of time, and often I'm caught off guard by something or other. If I try to ad lib, I end up saying something stupid, or something way too revealing and vulnerable, or something just plain mean even though I don't actually want to hurt other people. (Sometimes a mean comeback is just what pops in my head and jumps out before I can stop it.)

 

[DogwoodTree]

I have two women in my life like that, and the more they see the kid the more they whine about how they don't.

Do you think there are people who complain like this because they just can't conceive of anything else to say about the situation? Maybe the only paradigm they have about life is that they're victims and must vent by complaining all the time? Maybe the only way for them to say good things is to be prompted to do it, because really, truly, their brains just don't go there on their own.

That doesn't make their complaining "right" or "okay"...they have choices just like the rest of us to retrain their brains for what is good rather than what is easy. I'm just trying to understand how people can be so negative and difficult to please all the time.

In my mom's case, I don't think it's a "complaining" algorithm so much as a "superiority complex" algorithm...that no one else is as good as she is, so everyone else deserves her criticism and ingenious advice.

 

[theblitz6794]

I used to rely on scripts for conversations. That might be your problem. I forced myself to go out and learn how to talk to people. Then I went further and did it high, which caused me to think a little deeper about conversing.

Anyways, that's your problem really. The second someone deviates from the script, your whole thought process breaks down and you/I just lock up.

I still have to stick to a script but it's a very abstract one. I imagine our true selves or egos were characters in a book and I stick to acting how I think I would act....If you follow me.

Basically practice has made me use abstract and vague scripts which allows me to think on my feet better because the script has a much larger context

 

[Kari Suttle]

My mom is the queen of guilt trips. I don't know how to handle her either, much less how to even think about it - if she's right and justified or if she's wrong. Or how much of it is typical parenting. I get really conflicted thinking about it. As a kid anytime i got in trouble i'd get reminded how horrible of a childhood her and dad had growing up, and how much they've given up or put money to making sure i have a good life. Grades, braces, dentist, glasses, etc. She also doesn't think i have a right to feel depressed or anxious sometimes, or even for a long time, purely because i haven't been through anything whereas her, dad, my friend, everyone else i know basically, has. Its been a big issue for a long time. Still is, really.