Getting women to approach me

[Vanadium50]

The example I use is if you don't people to think that you are a thug, the. don't give people that impression.

What does the word "thug" mean? When I hear it, it sounds like some type of pop-culture group, but when I look it up it says a violent person.

As far as "violent", there was one time, approximately a year ago, when a certain girl decided I was violent simply because in response to the other girl she is friends with saying "hi" I blurred out the F-word because I was upset no one else said hi to me prior to her. Then, when some other guy -- who didn't know neither me nor either of those two girls up until that day -- informed me about it over the facebook, I kept trying to get him to explain to her how I use F-word all the time BUT I never in my life ever physically attacked anyone -- and he read but didn't reply to any of those messages. This was quite surprising, given that he talked to me about Christianity for like few hours and I thought the conversation was great, but apparently he did that only to keep me away from her, as he never talked to me ever since (he didn't actually tell me this was his motive, thats just my guess; its also possible he stopped talking to me simply because I was too pushy trying to get him involved in a conflict he didn't want to be part of, thats another guess).

But I am not sure whether that would qualify as "thug" or not since I wasn't being part of any gang I was just being a lone wolf that was frustrated that no one talks to me.

 

[tree]

A guy/person who looks like a thug would have a glowering
expression. Maybe not speak freely. Grunts. Uses bad language.
Makes gestures that are rude. Bumps into people. Acts like
he doesn't care about other people; is oblivious to them.

A thick-set obnoxious, grumpy person dressed in dark dull colors.
Has a mean streak and thinks that it is funny to hurt people &
animals. Damage property.

That is the image that the word "thug" brings to my mind.

NOTE: This is not a description of you.
I have never seen you. I am reacting to the word "thug."
Other people may think of a thug differently, but that is the
picture that comes to me hearing the word.

 

[Vanadium50]

A guy/person who looks like a thug would have a glowering
expression.

I didn't know the word "growering" so I just googled it and it said angry. If thats what it means then I guess my expression is, in fact, angry at times -- particularly when I am obsessing as to why no one approaches me. But then when I stop obsessing about it and think about something nice then this changes. I did notice that when I got one of my papers published people acted somewhat more friendly towards me, probably because I was looking happy. But I said "somewhat" for a reason: I still haven't made any friends that way, it was more like they said hi when they wouldn't have otherwise.

Maybe not speak freely.

By not speaking freely do you mean not approaching people? In this case thats also true: like I said I wait for others to approach me. Although on the other hand IF others approach me AND ask me some questions about my life THEN I can start talking non-stop, but most people aren't willing to do that.

In any case I am surprised you said thugs don't speak freely: I mean when I picture the guys with the other features you were describing it seems like they don't care and if they don't care, then what would be stopping them from speaking their mind any time they feel like it?

Grunts.

One of my ex-s did tell me that I grunt, but it didn't put her off she was kind of making a joke about it. And I believe I was grunting when I was thinking about physics, or concentrating on something else like that. So I am not sure why would thugs grunt its not like they have lots to think about.

Makes gestures that are rude.

One gesture my mom doesn't like is that when I am trying to show her where to go instead of saying "turn left and go to the green building" I simply point with my finger since its a lot easier. She said pointing with finger is rude. Other examples, perhaps even more prominent, are the ones when I am arguing with someone, and trying to explain certain concept, I am gesticulating with my hands a lot. I guess using gestures is what everyone does, but I do it a bit more than others. On the other hand, when I have shown someone a video of one of my physics talk they said the opposite that I seem expression-less and without many gestures. So I guess its depends on a situation. Like if there is nothing to excite me I can be expressionless or if I have a point to make then I can use gestures too much. I guess the fact that gestures reflect situation is common for everyone, thats what gestures are for. But maybe others tone it down a bit but in my case, as one of my professors put it, I can be "animated". And that also goes back to the smile issue. Back in my happy days when I was younger I was told I smile too much, and nowdays I am told I don't smile at all (and, mind you, I never made conscious effort one way or the other). So which way is it? Maybe my moods simply show more than with others, both ways.

Bumps into people.

Yeah that happens too. Back in high school I got in trouble because I came late to class and, without noticing it, I tried to move the teacher out of the way like I would move a chair. From my mom's point of view I bump into people a lot more than that and don't notice it: at least this is the explanation she offers when I ask her why do girls cross the street when I walk. But it is pretty hard to believe since the streets in question are really wide and not crowded at all so I don't see how I might bump into them, but my mom thinks I do (although of course she never been there so she can't know). The other thing my mom is telling me, which is more likely, is that due to the fact that I have such a large backpack full of books, I keep hitting people with my backpack on crowded places such as busses and airplanes. At first I didn't believe her but then when she actually pointed out me hitting someone with a backpack at the exact place and time when it happened, then I saw she was right. But still, that would only be applicable to busses/airplane, and not so much to wide empty street.

However, when I asked my pastor for some tips, he DID mention that I should stop carrying such a big backpack, although he gave a different reason from my mom: what he said is that since people don't know there are books there, some people might wonder if I have weapons. I never had any weapons by the way, but the pastor said people might not know it. And the other feedback regarding my backpack I received over 10 years ago when one of the girls I dated for a short while (who also happened to have Asperger) told me that when she saw my backpack she thought that maybe I am homeless and so I have all the food and whatever I need to live on the streets in the bag. Now, I assumed its just her weirdness rather than mine -- like I said she had Asperger and she acted strange and needy in other areas. But this past year when few people tried to offer me money, I am guessing she might be right.

In any case, the reason I have a large backpack is that I am trying to study physics at restaurants or whatever other places I frequent, and when I study physics I don't just read one book: rather I might need to look up at some other book, so I don't feel like constantly running back and forth to pick other books, so its a lot more convenient to simply have it all in my backpack. I guess you might say thats what office is for. But I guess I get tired of feeling "stuck" in the office the entire day, so I want to go to other places in order to change the scenary, and thats why I have to carry all my books with me. But then my officemates DID wonder why they never seen me in the office, so maybe I SHOULD somehow learn to be in the office more: and that would help me out both with my officemates not wondering where I am AND with everyone else not seeing huge backpack all the time. And by the way, the officemates DO talk to me, its everyone ELSE that doesn't, so maybe if I could be in the office more I could make friends with officemates. True, officemates are males, or at least used to be (I don't know about the new school I am transferring to); but maybe once I am friends with them I can make friends with others -- both males and females -- through them.

Acts like
he doesn't care about other people; is oblivious to them.

Being "oblivious" is part of Asperger's isn't it. As far as not caring, I care about things I am consciously aware of. But the fact that I have some "blind spots" in my mind makes me "not care" about whatever that happens to be covered by said blind spots.

A thick-set

I am not "thick set". I am 5'9'' tall and I am 150 lbl.

obnoxious,

I don't see myself as obnoxious, I see myself as shy. But whether or not others MISINTERPRET me as abnoxious, thats an interesting question.

grumpy person

Like I said, I am grumpy, but ONLY because I am upset about social rejection, as well as the fact that my career isn't going the way I wanted it to.

dressed in dark dull colors.

My dress has all kinds of colors, both bright and dark, so overall no its not dark.

Has a mean streak

Once again, don't see myself as mean, but whether others see me this way thats an interesting question.

and thinks that it is funny to hurt people &
animals.

I am opposite to that. In fact, I would go out of my way to take flowers off of the street so that others won't step on them, and I feel bad about the fact that they kill animals in shelters; I wish all the shelters were no-kill.

Sometimes I do feel its funny to hurt people by making political statements they disagree with. But thats only because I assume its a minor hurt (whether that assumption is right or wrong). I would never want to cause people any major hurt.

A perfect example of my feeling sympathy towards people is the way I stayed with my ex, J. for two years despite the fact that I stopped liking her after the first year, only because she was really sick and depressed and I didn't want her to feel "betrayed". I always feel sympathy towards anyone weaker than me (be that human or animal) the only reason I come across as lacking empathy is due to the fact that I view others as strong and myself as a victim. But when it is clearly not the case (such as my ex being sick) then my attitude changes 180. In fact, when my ex was breaking up with me, she said (in an insulting way) that I need to get a girl that is permanently sick, since thats the only way I can act caring. Well I guess I don't need girl that is permanently sick, I just need to do away with my victim mentality.

But in any case, I never in my life "physically" hurt anyone, the only way I hurt people is emotionally.

Damage property.

I would never do that. Just like I never physically hurt people, I never cause physical damage to property either.

NOTE: This is not a description of you.
I have never seen you. I am reacting to the word "thug."
Other people may think of a thug differently, but that is the
picture that comes to me hearing the word.

I know that! But my question is whether I "come across" the wrong way -- which of course is misperception on other people's part, but such misperception might be something I want to avoid in future.

 

[The Outsider]

What a roller coaster of a topic that I've finally read through. I can say I can learn a lot from seeing someone else's mistakes.

You probably just have to accept that you're not in your 20s anymore. I know you said you felt like you missed out on not dating women around that age while you were also in your 20s. It would probably be much better to focus on what you can do now instead of trying to make up for a ship that has already sailed. I rather not get into gender roles and how men and women are "supposed" to act, but I will ask this...

Why are you expecting women to make the first move when you won't make it yourself? How do you know that they don't feel exactly the same way? I know Aspies tend to struggle with this, but to my knowledge it isn't impossible to say hi to someone especially if you think you want to form a relationship with them. You're also expecting a younger woman to want to date an older man like yourself when you give the impression of not wanting to do the same. There has to be some give and take here and from what I see, you're expecting a double standard to work in your favor.

 

[Vanadium50]

You probably just have to accept that you're not in your 20s anymore. I know you said you felt like you missed out on not dating women around that age while you were also in your 20s. It would probably be much better to focus on what you can do now instead of trying to make up for a ship that has already sailed. I rather not get into gender roles and how men and women are "supposed" to act, but I will ask this...

Thats easy for you to say, because you are only 28. If you were 36 yourself you would see how frustrating it is, and how you would want to grasp at the straws to undo this frustration.

Why are you expecting women to make the first move when you won't make it yourself? How do you know that they don't feel exactly the same way?

A girl is a lot more likely to think a guy is creepy than a guy would think that the girl is. So this logically implies that if only women were the ones approaching men, then everyone would be happy.

I know Aspies tend to struggle with this, but to my knowledge it isn't impossible to say hi to someone especially if you think you want to form a relationship with them.

Thinking of very few times when I did force myself to say hi, I deliberately either said it quietly, or quickly, or looked away, or did a number of other things to make sure the girl didn't notice (and no I don't have problem with eye contact in the regular conversation, this was just my way of avoiding being the first one to say hi, so I was like "okay I decided to try to say hi first, here I say hi first so I can check that box, but lets hope she won't notice") and even that happened only once in few months; a lot more common outcome of my wanting to say hi is that I simply keep making excuses why this time is not a good time and end up never saying it. So yes it is pretty difficult.

You're also expecting a younger woman to want to date an older man like yourself when you give the impression of not wanting to do the same. There has to be some give and take here and from what I see, you're expecting a double standard to work in your favor.

Well I have lowered my standards in other areas. For example, originally I wanted to only date women in academia, but I ended up dating the ones who haven't even been through college; I also ended up dating women in 200-300 weight range, and in a couple of cases I considered dating divorcees with kids (even though Bible teaches against dating divorcee and taking someone else's kids would also ruin my life from a lot more practical viewpoint as well) and also I dated some women with PCOS whose ability to produce kids is questionable, a couple of times I dated women with small admixtures of Indian and hispanic blood (they were still mostly white, but nevertheless the small admixtures were enough to make me uncomfortable) and list goes on.

 

[Rayner]

You seem to have even more particular than I thought. Why do you have all of these standards.

Thats easy for you to say, because you are only 28. If you were 36 yourself you would see how frustrating it is, and how you would want to grasp at the straws to undo this frustration.



A girl is a lot more likely to think a guy is creepy than a guy would think that the girl is. So this logically implies that if only women were the ones approaching men, then everyone would be happy.



Thinking of very few times when I did force myself to say hi, I deliberately either said it quietly, or quickly, or looked away, or did a number of other things to make sure the girl didn't notice (and no I don't have problem with eye contact in the regular conversation, this was just my way of avoiding being the first one to say hi, so I was like "okay I decided to try to say hi first, here I say hi first so I can check that box, but lets hope she won't notice") and even that happened only once in few months; a lot more common outcome of my wanting to say hi is that I simply keep making excuses why this time is not a good time and end up never saying it. So yes it is pretty difficult.



Well I have lowered my standards in other areas. For example, originally I wanted to only date women in academia, but I ended up dating the ones who haven't even been through college; I also ended up dating women in 200-300 weight range, and in a couple of cases I considered dating divorcees with kids (even though Bible teaches against dating divorcee and taking someone else's kids would also ruin my life from a lot more practical viewpoint as well) and also I dated some women with PCOS whose ability to produce kids is questionable, a couple of times I dated women with small admixtures of Indian and hispanic blood (they were still mostly white, but nevertheless the small admixtures were enough to make me uncomfortable) and list goes on.

 

[The Outsider]

Thats easy for you to say, because you are only 28. If you were 36 yourself you would see how frustrating it is, and how you would want to grasp at the straws to undo this frustration.

I have no idea how I'll change in 8 years, but you seem to imply that I don't know how frustrating it is even at 28. There are things I've missed out on and so many things I could have done differently or better. Most of these things I can still do, but I have to live with lost time. You're not getting that time back regardless of how annoying it feels. Even if you somehow found the right woman to date that's in her young 20s, you're still 36 and that time is still gone.

A girl is a lot more likely to think a guy is creepy than a guy would think that the girl is. So this logically implies that if only women were the ones approaching men, then everyone would be happy.

While this is true on average, a major factor is in how the guy looks and behaves. Someone who looks nice and well mannered is likely to not be thought of as a creep and is much more likely to be treated friendly during first impressions. Logically the way you expect this to work isn't reality because it isn't a clear black and white issue. Not everyone neatly follows gender roles. Are you really planning on missing out on a woman who's a good fit because she didn't say hi first?

Thinking of very few times when I did force myself to say hi, I deliberately either said it quietly, or quickly, or looked away, or did a number of other things to make sure the girl didn't notice (and no I don't have problem with eye contact in the regular conversation, this was just my way of avoiding being the first one to say hi, so I was like "okay I decided to try to say hi first, here I say hi first so I can check that box, but lets hope she won't notice") and even that happened only once in few months; a lot more common outcome of my wanting to say hi is that I simply keep making excuses why this time is not a good time and end up never saying it. So yes it is pretty difficult.

I get that we're Aspies and social interaction is a struggle that affects us all differently, however, have you done anything to overcome this struggle? How do you expect to get to know someone romantically if even saying hi to them is too much of a struggle? If you say hi in such a way that someone doesn't notice, to them it's basically you having not said it at all. Why talk to someone if you don't want them to notice you're talking to them? At least you admitted to making excuses. Self reflection is good.

Well I have lowered my standards in other areas. For example, originally I wanted to only date women in academia, but I ended up dating the ones who haven't even been through college; I also ended up dating women in 200-300 weight range, and in a couple of cases I considered dating divorcees with kids (even though Bible teaches against dating divorcee and taking someone else's kids would also ruin my life from a lot more practical viewpoint as well) and also I dated some women with PCOS whose ability to produce kids is questionable, a couple of times I dated women with small admixtures of Indian and hispanic blood (they were still mostly white, but nevertheless the small admixtures were enough to make me uncomfortable) and list goes on.

Given that others, including me, have had trouble understanding your wording, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. What exactly do you mean by women having mixtures of Indian and Hispanic blood making you uncomfortable? I don't want to jump to conclusions just yet on this.

 

[Vanadium50]

I have no idea how I'll change in 8 years, but you seem to imply that I don't know how frustrating it is even at 28. There are things I've missed out on and so many things I could have done differently or better. Most of these things I can still do, but I have to live with lost time. You're not getting that time back regardless of how annoying it feels. Even if you somehow found the right woman to date that's in her young 20s, you're still 36 and that time is still gone.

I understand that too: I was also frustrated with my age at 28, in fact throughout my 20-s I wish I was younger. But, back in my 20-s (including the time I was 28) my frustration with my age was all about my academic progress in physics.

As far as dating, yes I was frustrated that no one would date me (just as much as I am right now) but age was not part of the equation because I was more than happy to date women ANYWHERE in their 20s (case in point: when I was 26, I tried to date a woman who was 29, and I also tried to date two other women both of whom were 31). Now, my criteria of the ages of women haven't changed, its only my age that did, thats why I had to be a lot older than 31 in order to connect the frustration about my age to the frustration that no one would date me.

But, in any case, going back to what I was saying, yes I was frustrated with my age back then too, I just didn't connect it to dating and instead I was connecting it to my career. In particular my age frustration came from the fact that I started off learning calculus at 13 (which means that I was way ahead of my age) and ended up getting ph.d. at 29 (which means I became behind) and THAT is what bothered me. Then, at 31, I realized that the fact that I got ph.d. at 29 should be least of my worries, what is even worse is that most people had 15 publications by that time and I had only 1 (well right now I have 3, but thats still way too little) because the 26 papers that I have online aren't peer reviewed. I still, however, weren't thinking about age affecting dating. The first time I realize that age affects dating was when I was 34 and my girlfriend (whom I dated from age 32 till 34) broke up with me. Then only I connected dating to age -- although my frustration about dating as a whole started all the way back when I was 21 and was following me throughout my 20s.

Anyway, one thing you mentioned is that you can still do most of the things you are thinking of, you are just frustrated about wasted time. I am not sure what you were referring to, but if I were to guess then I would think my academic frustrations at 28 would have met this description: I still could be caught up in my career but I was frustrated about wasted time. On the other hand, what I am talking about right now -- that is, dating someone in her 20s -- is what I can no longer do, so it is a whole new level of frustration since its "worse" when I can never do something as opposed to merely be worried about wasted time. Although on the other hand, of course, ruining my career is worse than ruining dating life; but the fact that I am dealing with combination of both is what makes it so unbearable. At least if I had one of those two things fixed then I would have more emotional energy to deal with the other.

But tell me about yourself: what are the things you are frustrated about that you haven't done at the younger age?

While this is true on average, a major factor is in how the guy looks and behaves. Someone who looks nice and well mannered is likely to not be thought of as a creep and is much more likely to be treated friendly during first impressions. Logically the way you expect this to work isn't reality because it isn't a clear black and white issue. Not everyone neatly follows gender roles. Are you really planning on missing out on a woman who's a good fit because she didn't say hi first?

Speaking of "looks and behaves", I forget to do personal grooming (brushing my teeth, brushing my hair, shaving, washing clothes and so forth) my mom also pointed out that oftentimes when I put on a shirt I don't tuck it in the back neatly so it looks like I have "a tail" as she puts it, also my shoes often get untied. She also pointed out that I chew with my mouth open, and when I drink something I make a sound as well. Thats another reason I am upset about the age. Those things are so easy to fix IF ONLY I was aware of them earlier. But now it seems too late to fix them since I am not getting my age back.

And by the way, don't you think its unfair that the girl would think I am creepy because I do the above-described things? I mean none of those things have anything to do with wanting sex, so why would a girl attribute one bad thing to me because I am doing something else bad that is logically unrelated?

Going back to the question of women having to approach me: So you asked me why do I wait for them to approach me if I am unwilling to do the same thing. I said its because women are more likely to think guy is a creep than the other way around. Then you said that, while thats true, they won't think of a guy that is neat as a creep. Well my response to that is I am not neat and "even if" I were to become more neat by fixing the things I just pointed out, how do I know there won't be more things I don't see (I would have never thought of most of the above things if my mom didn't tell me and my mom isn't constantly around me to correct other things). So a sure way to know as to whether or not I am neat enough for girls to like me is whether or not girls approach me first. Which brings me back to original point: I want the girls to approach me first so that I can see that my talking to them would be appreciated.

 

[Vanadium50]

Apparently the site has a length limit on the messages I can post. So here is the other half of my reply:

Given that others, including me, have had trouble understanding your wording, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. What exactly do you mean by women having mixtures of Indian and Hispanic blood making you uncomfortable? I don't want to jump to conclusions just yet on this.

I am not saying that any race is superior to any other. All I am saying is that it is natural for people of all races to stick to their own kind. Chinese do that, Japanese do that, and Whites do that too. The very presence of a pure Japanese person is an indication that "all" of their parents were sticking to their own kind -- and the same is true when you see a pure White person or pure person of any other race. The only difference between myself and other people is that others have a principle of "think but don't say" or even "do but don't say" (they quietly select their partners of their own race but they don't go announcing it in a public forum) while my principle is "whatever I think should be said". Ironically, they say "think but don't say" and I say "whatever I think should be said" for the same exact reason: not wanting to hurt others. The disagreement comes from them thinking that in order not to hurt they should keep some thoughts to themselves, while my thinking is that if thoughts are kept to themselves it would hurt even more. After all, whenever the professors that don't want to work with me or girls that don't want to date me make "polite excuses" that they are "busy" it hurts a lot more than it would have if they were to blatantly tell me what it is they don't like (but obviously they don't get it since their reason for "polite excuses" is to supposedly spare the hurt). And thats why I have a general philosophy that whatever I consciously am aware of, I say. That way everyone knows that I am being honest. And like I said if you are White (or any other pure race for that matter) than all of your ancestors were sticking to their own kind; it is simply that they were "too polite" to talk about it, while I prefer brutal honestly to "politeness".

In any case, now that we do have an honest discussion about it, I have the same standard with regards to all races. To show you that in my mind it truly does go both ways, let me show you how I react to rejection. So, I don't want to date a woman with kids. But when a woman with kids rejected me, I still was mad at her, just because the act of rejection hurt my self esteem. So, given that example, you would expect that if Chinese woman were to reject me I would also get hurt (despite not wanting to date Chinese)? Right? Wrong. I won't be. Why not? Because I am secure in myself as a White person, and the act of rejection on the basis of something I feel secure about simply won't hurt me. When I hurt by rejection, it always betrays my own insecurities about myself: I am insecure about my age, so I get hurt when I get rejected for my age, I feel insecure about Asperger, so I get hurt by the fact that I get rejected over Asperger. So, if Chinese girl were to reject me because of Asperger, then oh yeah I would get hurt (despite the fact that I don't want to date Chinese so the whole thing shouldn't have been relevant) but if that same Chinese girl rejects me for being White, then I am not hurt. Why? Because I feel secure about being White but I don't feel secure about having Asperger.

This brings me to a more general point. The reason its "wrong" for a White person to openly say they prefer to date their own kind, while its okay for a Japanese to say that is because when White says it others get hurt but when Japanese says that they don't. But the reason for this difference is that Whites are secure in themselves as Whites while others apparently aren't. And I am not saying that others admit to being inferior. Not at all. Every race has its own good points and its own bad points. All I am saying is that they have to learn to develop pride in themselves to the point that they won't need approval of anyone else. And I certainly won't get hurt when Japanese person says they are proud of being Japanese; on the contrary, that would make me want to get to know them better to learn more about the culture they are so proud of! And neither should they get hurt by hearing White person being proud of being White.

Now I realize that most of them won't admit they are insecure in themselves but instead they would claim it is the past history of White racism: after all Japanese didn't have slavery nearly as recent as American Whites did. Well, first of all, it was "American" Whites that had slavery, so why do "Russian" Whites have to pay for that? Yes, its true that if we strictly talk about "today" then on average Russians are more "racist" than Americans are (mainly due to liberal propaganda in American schools); but still Russians are not nearly as racist as to have slavery, and I thought slavery is what we are talking about? If you say that slavery doesn't matter and you only care about the situation as of today, then Japan has much stricter immigration laws than ANY White country, so why isn't anyone offended by that? I guess the answer to this question is that people don't sit down and logically compartmentalize. Kind of like I was bitten by a dog when I was 6, so now I am afraid of all dogs -- despite the fact that, from a logical viewpoint, I was only bitten because I wondered into neighbors apartment being a curious 6 year old, which I am not doing today. But fear is not logical, so despite the logic I am still afraid of dogs. That is probably what is going on with people being "afraid of racism". While I fully understand where they are coming from, I think this is precisely the problem. After all, the reason I keep facing rejection is because there are male rapists which caused women to be "afraid of men that are weird". But what does Asperger weirdness has to do with the way rapists are weird? Well fear isn't rational. So as long as "fear of the weird" is triggered, then they become afraid of Asperger weird, too. And similarly, American slavery lead to "fear of White pride" in general which then was applied to Russian White pride, too. See the parallel? Well I think in both cases it is very important for people to sit down and try to think more rationally because that irrational fear -- as understandable as it is -- creates a lot of damage: one example of this damage is the fact that I am 36 years old and still single.

Anyway, you will now probably ask why did I bring it up on this post instead of making a different post since its clearly a different subject. Okay, to remind you, I didn't intend to change subject. The way conversation went is that you asked me why do I want the girls to overlook my age when I don't want to make similar favors in return. So this is what prompted me to list the things I was overlooking -- which includes the way I overlooked non-white admixtures which brought us to this topic. But anyway going back to your question: yes I overlooked the age too. I can think of few times when I tried to date girls in their 30s. Well I didn't end up dating them -- quite possibly because I didn't really want to so I wasn't trying to impress them -- but still at least I tried. But that doesn't change the fact that I really want to experience what I missed out on -- which would be girls in their 20s (and like I said it doesn't have to be early 20s, as evident from my dating 29 and 31 year olds when I was 26).

 

[Warmheart]

Vanadium, my apologies that I am not able to follow your posts too easily, but I do wish to offer a few insights for you to consider, if you wish.

If you have ASD, hygiene challenges make sense to me. Some of us would not do such a fantastic job to shower, brush teeth, brush hair, etc, reliably without our handy-dandy visual schedules. Sounds like you don't have visual schedules yet. They help a LOT! It isn't about learning to do these things (we are smart enough to know, in general, that we need to), rather it's about having something solid and reliable to prompt us to do stuff, as our attention may be elsewhere (often inward). I have visual schedules for the sequence of steps to shower, brushing teeth, dressing... Cos otherwise I'll leave out steps in the sequences. (Remember what I said about attention drifting elsewhere...) I also have a visual schedule for making a cup of tea, but you likely don't need that, but I do. Get this: I have a visual schedule by my door, with a picture of a backpack, coins for the bus, and... pants. Ha! Why can't your By-the-door picture schedule have a picture of a shirt being tucked in, and hair being brushed? You wouldn't be the first. Anyway, these visual schedules are both reminders and guides to prompt us through all the steps in our hygiene sequences. Thank goodness for picture schedules, so I can be fresh and sparkly.

To help you understand why women are creeped out by men with hygiene issues: Fear. Yes, disgust can be a reason too, but FEAR is huge in this case. In the animal world, an unkempt, smelly male is WARNING. It means "Stay away!" For humans, this is scary too. If a man lacks the awareness and mental clarity to do something as basic as stay clean, that's a very large gap in his awareness indeed. The man is thus seen as unpredictable. Scary! Could a woman look past that? Well, her survival instincts would kick in first, and create a lasting impression of fear, that the man is somehow unaware or unstable. She may appreciate him as a person eventually if given time around him, but a man who does not look or smell clean is strongly sending a signal saying that he is not yet ready to mate. <-------- BIG signal.

My suggestion:
1.) Get a formal diagnosis. Got one? Great!
2.) Have an ASD specialist work with you. This means that YOU call the shots! You can say what your goals are, such as finding a mate, and managing hygiene easier. The ASD specialist's job is to help you get those visual schedules, prompts, reminders-- whatever makes these things easier for you for hygiene. Next, they can help you increase your self-esteem and confidence. This part would take a longer time, but you would feel much better about yourself after. The ASD specialist can help you relate better to women, too. This can also take some time, but it's about appreciating and using your strengths, as well as learning new ways to inert ace with people. The ARC in your area will likely have an Autism NOW center with an ASD specialist. Just a thought.

 

[Vanadium50]

If you have ASD, hygiene challenges make sense to me. Some of us would not do such a fantastic job to shower, brush teeth, brush hair, etc, reliably without our handy-dandy visual schedules. Sounds like you don't have visual schedules yet. They help a LOT! It isn't about learning to do these things (we are smart enough to know, in general, that we need to), rather it's about having something solid and reliable to prompt us to do stuff, as our attention may be elsewhere (often inward). I have visual schedules for the sequence of steps to shower, brushing teeth, dressing... Cos otherwise I'll leave out steps in the sequences. (Remember what I said about attention drifting elsewhere...) I also have a visual schedule for making a cup of tea, but you likely don't need that, but I do. Get this: I have a visual schedule by my door, with a picture of a backpack, coins for the bus, and... pants. Ha! Why can't your By-the-door picture schedule have a picture of a shirt being tucked in, and hair being brushed? You wouldn't be the first. Anyway, these visual schedules are both reminders and guides to prompt us through all the steps in our hygiene sequences. Thank goodness for picture schedules, so I can be fresh and sparkly.

Okay its not just the schedule. Lets think right now: why am I not wanting to do those things right now this very second -- despite the fact that you just reminded me of those as I am reading your reply? Well I don't have a toothpaste with me, because I just moved a couple of days ago. I didn't want to take it with me into the airplane: although I knew they would probably let me take it one way or the other, I figure I will always buy one once in a new place so why the trouble? I would rather use that space for extra couple of books. But then when I was in a new place I had other things to focus on, so the toothpaste was put off till later. But then I also don't particularly want to shower right now either. Thats because I spent quite a bit of time typing my replies to this forum as well as replying to hotmail message to some girl I am corresponding to, then hitting reload button waiting for replies, and now I feel like I have to do physics because I only have few hours before I see my professor and I haven't done much yet; and when I shower it usually takes like 20 minutes because I can't tell whether I am clean or not so I would have to over-do it in order to make sure I didn't just make a gesture, that plus also looking through my clothes to find clean one, and so forth takes time too and time tends to add up. But don't worry I will take a shower anyway since being clean is more important especially in a new place. As far as tucking up a shirt, that would be a much better example where some sort of reminder would apply, as it only takes a second to do and the "only" reason I don't do that is because I forget. So now that you mentioned it, yes I will tuck up my shirt today most likely. In any case I am not the type of person that likes to have schedules, the moment I have some sort of schedule the first thing I want to do is deviate from it. But I do need to become more organized one way or the other.

To help you understand why women are creeped out by men with hygiene issues: Fear. Yes, disgust can be a reason too, but FEAR is huge in this case. In the animal world, an unkempt, smelly male is WARNING. It means "Stay away!" For humans, this is scary too. If a man lacks the awareness and mental clarity to do something as basic as stay clean, that's a very large gap in his awareness indeed. The man is thus seen as unpredictable. Scary!

I agree its fear -- thats how women's non-verbal behavior looks like that they are afraid of me. And I also agree that people assume I don't have self awareness. But my two big question in both cases is WHY.

First of all, why does the fact that I don't do something basic implies that I am not self aware? Maybe I "am" self aware, I simply don't think of this as very important. Take for example the professor B. who kept procrastinating about editting my papers because he couldn't get past the fact that I put closing quotes instead of opening ones, and then think of professor L. who was just the opposite way and who was telling me "don't bother about getting a factor of 1/2 wrong just keep working" (so I am sure L. wouldn't mind the way I put quotes, but B. obviously did). So if you want to say that I am not self aware because of the way I put quotes wrongly, then are you also saying that L. is not self aware because he doesn't care about the factor of 1/2 in calculations? Of course not! So the point is that the issue is "not" self awarenness. The issue is what I find important and what I don't (and by the way both L. and B. are males so I am not being sexist here). Well, my not caring about clothes or style is the same exact thing: yes I am self aware I simply don't rank it as important! But others don't seem to get it because not regarding style as important is more unusual than not regarding a factor of 1/2 as important, and people tend to think that if I am unusual it means that I am not self aware. But thats not true: yes I am self aware I am just unusual!

Now, the next question is this: lets take a hypothetical and ASSUME I am not self aware (like I said I disagree with this right there but for the sake of hypothetical lets pretend thats the case). Why would lack of self awareness imply that I would hurt them? Note that when I was a teenager they weren't nearly as afraid of me as they are now. In other words, part of fear is that I have enough strength to overpower them. But if I am not self aware, how can I possibly overpower them? And even putting this aside, how is it even logically possible to do something without being aware of what I am doing? If someone were to rape them, they would be deriving some sort of pleasure out of it. But if they are not self aware, how would they be aware of the pleasure they are feeling? It just makes absolutely no sense! Or if you are talking about stalking: how can a person "arrange" to follow a woman around if they are not aware that woman exists and that they are trying to follow her?

 

[Warmheart]

You just explained why a picture schedule would help in the shower: You follow the steps outlined in the visual sequence, so you DO know if you're clean.
You don't want to bring toothpaste. But you want to have teeth. And, you want a mate. So, toothpaste it would need to be. Prompts and reminders rock.

Women (and men) consider someone with a noticeable lack of hygiene scary, and mentally unaware enough to
have the executive function to:
1. plan the task of bathing
2. Initiate the task of bathing
3. Self-monitor throughout the task of bathing.
Executive dysfunction can be a normal part of ASD.
It's not per se a character flaw. But it DOES make a person seem unreliable and unpredictable.
That is what scares a mate away.

It is possible to be unaware about being unaware. Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[Vanadium50]

You just explained why a picture schedule would help in the shower: You follow the steps outlined in the visual sequence, so you DO know if you're clean.

What would help even more is to be socially accepted. Then instead of spending hours on the computer (and then feeling like I don't have time to take a shower) I would be trying to get out of the house as soon as possible to meet a group of friends (and then I would "want" to take shower looking forward to that interaction).

Women (and men) consider someone with a noticeable lack of hygiene scary, and mentally unaware enough to
have the executive function to:
1. plan the task of bathing
2. Initiate the task of bathing
3. Self-monitor throughout the task of bathing.
Executive dysfunction can be a normal part of ASD.

You still haven't answered my question as to why they assume I would have enough executive function to plan out the way I would supposedly stalk them.

 

[Warmheart]

Unwashed people seem unstable. Unstable people are unpredictable. Stalking would be only one of many worries regarding an unclean person, male or female. Unstable, unaware, unpredictable all seem scary because they may act in any number of harmful ways.

We need to be responsible enough to recognize that we contribute to how others see us.
We can't blame-shift. That won't get us solutions. Accountability will. Being responsible is attractive.

If you want a mate: You need to take the first step and bathe. That way you can have those friends. The responsibility lies with us to improve our self care. (See those awesome supports aka visual schedules above)

 

[The Outsider]

I'm well aware quite a bit of my posts so far have been in your threads. I didn't sign up to just be critical of what you put out there. You caught my attention and I really want to help.

I understand that too: I was also frustrated with my age at 28, in fact throughout my 20-s I wish I was younger. But, back in my 20-s (including the time I was 28) my frustration with my age was all about my academic progress in physics.

As far as dating, yes I was frustrated that no one would date me (just as much as I am right now) but age was not part of the equation because I was more than happy to date women ANYWHERE in their 20s (case in point: when I was 26, I tried to date a woman who was 29, and I also tried to date two other women both of whom were 31). Now, my criteria of the ages of women haven't changed, its only my age that did, thats why I had to be a lot older than 31 in order to connect the frustration about my age to the frustration that no one would date me.

But, in any case, going back to what I was saying, yes I was frustrated with my age back then too, I just didn't connect it to dating and instead I was connecting it to my career. In particular my age frustration came from the fact that I started off learning calculus at 13 (which means that I was way ahead of my age) and ended up getting ph.d. at 29 (which means I became behind) and THAT is what bothered me. Then, at 31, I realized that the fact that I got ph.d. at 29 should be least of my worries, what is even worse is that most people had 15 publications by that time and I had only 1 (well right now I have 3, but thats still way too little) because the 26 papers that I have online aren't peer reviewed. I still, however, weren't thinking about age affecting dating. The first time I realize that age affects dating was when I was 34 and my girlfriend (whom I dated from age 32 till 34) broke up with me. Then only I connected dating to age -- although my frustration about dating as a whole started all the way back when I was 21 and was following me throughout my 20s.

Anyway, one thing you mentioned is that you can still do most of the things you are thinking of, you are just frustrated about wasted time. I am not sure what you were referring to, but if I were to guess then I would think my academic frustrations at 28 would have met this description: I still could be caught up in my career but I was frustrated about wasted time. On the other hand, what I am talking about right now -- that is, dating someone in her 20s -- is what I can no longer do, so it is a whole new level of frustration since its "worse" when I can never do something as opposed to merely be worried about wasted time. Although on the other hand, of course, ruining my career is worse than ruining dating life; but the fact that I am dealing with combination of both is what makes it so unbearable. At least if I had one of those two things fixed then I would have more emotional energy to deal with the other.

But tell me about yourself: what are the things you are frustrated about that you haven't done at the younger age?

There's a few things actually. Although I do seek someone to be in my life, I haven't been as focused on it as you. That's not to say you're somehow in the wrong for that. We have different goals and timelines for them. In high school I never had a girlfriend. I was an outcast to the students for reasons I'm not entirely clear on. I never had the chance to go to prom or even get into 12th grade because I ended up dropping out of school and getting my GED. I'm never going to get that experience now. This might be an unfair comparison since I hated high school culture and I haven't longed for these things.

One thing I did missed out on is early working experience. Even now I'm still with very little work experience and a terrible resume. I'm not sure how much being older with very little work experience will hurt me in a very competitive job market. I can still probably get into work, but I'll be a late bloomer. Although I'm currently 28, I feel I haven't lived like an adult yet. Although I'm working toward getting somewhere, I'm still upset that I've lost all that time. The only thing I managed was getting a degree from an online college. Three years later I still have done little with it. Even taking some of my unique issues into consideration, I haven't been nearly as proactive as I could have been. Despite all the stress over it, even now, I'm still missing out. I do feel behind many people younger than me who have great careers or even just working regularly.

Another thing I've missed out on is positive social experiences in my youth. That's not to say I didn't have any, but the negative outweighed the positive so much. Aside from a few friends I had back in the days, I don't quite know what it's like to have daily positive experiences with people outside my family. Even my efforts to get into social groups haven't worked out so well because I felt like I didn't really fit in. That is to say I did visit more than once, but I gave up on them. It more so had to do with my personal feelings than anything they did wrong.

A lot of it is me wanting to avoid social interactions because I don't want to deal with the backlash of people finding out I'm transgender. I still feel justified for the sake of my safely. I'm not a child or a teenager anymore and I missed out on being able to grow up female. I'm very upset about that, but I know I can't bring that back ever. I get you probably won't be able to relate to this given the uniqueness of the situation, but this is me answering more clearly what I felt I've missed out on by now.

The point is that I'm missing out even now on living like an adulthood. I'm at home most of the time with too much free time. I only tend to see my mother on a daily basis since I'm still living with her.

Speaking of "looks and behaves", I forget to do personal grooming (brushing my teeth, brushing my hair, shaving, washing clothes and so forth) my mom also pointed out that oftentimes when I put on a shirt I don't tuck it in the back neatly so it looks like I have "a tail" as she puts it, also my shoes often get untied. She also pointed out that I chew with my mouth open, and when I drink something I make a sound as well. Thats another reason I am upset about the age. Those things are so easy to fix IF ONLY I was aware of them earlier. But now it seems too late to fix them since I am not getting my age back.

And by the way, don't you think its unfair that the girl would think I am creepy because I do the above-described things? I mean none of those things have anything to do with wanting sex, so why would a girl attribute one bad thing to me because I am doing something else bad that is logically unrelated?

Going back to the question of women having to approach me: So you asked me why do I wait for them to approach me if I am unwilling to do the same thing. I said its because women are more likely to think guy is a creep than the other way around. Then you said that, while thats true, they won't think of a guy that is neat as a creep. Well my response to that is I am not neat and "even if" I were to become more neat by fixing the things I just pointed out, how do I know there won't be more things I don't see (I would have never thought of most of the above things if my mom didn't tell me and my mom isn't constantly around me to correct other things). So a sure way to know as to whether or not I am neat enough for girls to like me is whether or not girls approach me first. Which brings me back to original point: I want the girls to approach me first so that I can see that my talking to them would be appreciated.

Someone else already replied to this in a lot more detail, so I don't have much to say. You say that even if you look neat, they may still think you're creepy. Context plays a big role as well. If out at night time on a lonely street, a man quickly walks up to a woman, even if to say hi, she might get very freaked out at that. The man could be friendly and have no ill intentions, but the woman doesn't know that right then and there. It's easier to be on edge and prepare to flee then to take the chance that something bad does happen.

I'm not saying that's you, no, not at all. It seems like the context in which you meet women are classmates, right? Being neat will greatly help out. Do you by any chance have a reputation that women might have heard about? From what I gathered, you never mentioned being a violent person. Are you willing at all to ever approach a woman first? Even if you do everything right and she does get creep out, you'll probably have to cut your losses. You're not going to get with certain people no matter what you do.

I'm aware there's another post about race, but I won't touch that now.

 

[popculturegeeknerd06]

so the long and short of it OP, are you saying you were single throughout all of your 20's?