authenticity vs invisibility... invisibility wins

[pax]

I feel you. I'm not sure what else to say.

 

[Tom]

I was in an actual romantic relationship this past June-in other words, I had a boyfriend. He was really nice, really committed. Things were going well. He'd recognised on his own (due to experience with an Aspie friend) that I had Aspergers, and he didn't care.
He was perfectly accepting of me, and we had good times together. Then he broke up with me because he decided that my failure at a social life meant we were incompatible. It was the way I would go into shut downs at parties and social events that was the problem. Apparently, unknown to me, he'd been thinking he would fix that about me, and it wasn't working. But it's sad because he really did love all the times when it was just the two of us, and I did too.
I suppose breaking up was easy for him, since he'll easily be able to find someone better. But I won't.

People who think they can change someone in a significant way are virtually always in for a disappointment. What you see is what you get.

That is a hard experience on your end as the other person set up certain expectations and then it sounds like they pulled out a hidden agenda at the end, and pulled the rug out.

I don't know if it makes sense, but perhaps it is best to cover that base early with someone, saying something to the effect of 'I am what my nature has me be, I am different, not broken, you can not 'fix' me. Small things I might adapt but my basic personality is who and what I always will be'

 

[Tilancia]

My husband is a minister and I totally dislike the times he ministers in parishes : I am unable to play the "minister ´s wife" appropriately : (

I found my spiritual balance over the years (and keep my sanity) by :
- choosing the right church for me, the one where I feel good, spiritually and theologically (different from my husband's one)
- looking for unusual spiritual people : in my country it means going to communities, monasteries, sometimes of other religions, or meeting "something-oriented Christians" (like "Lgbt+ - / non-violent - / hard metal - Christians" for examples).

And now that I got diagnosed, I sometimes simply say I am autistic, with no social filter...; )

 

[Crossbreed]

...in my country it means going to...

Which country is that?

 

[Tilancia]

Crossbreed : "Which country is that?"

France, where, thanks to the "laicity laws", and because it is a little country, you have a lot of religious people to discover.

I don ´t know if where Dogwood Tree lives, it could be the same : for me, each state of the USA looks like a country, but maybe it works like a "region", with a certain religious/spiritual/cultural tradition, and you can ´t find so much diversity.

I visited NY, and Chicago, and was amazed to see so much churches of all kinds on the streets.
But I haven ´t seen how it is outside big cities.

 

[CaptainMatthew]

...eensy, teensy small doses apparently, but yes you're right.



Turns out, I'm really bad at that. Or maybe there just aren't many options, I don't know.



You're right, of course. Self care is a good way out of the dark places, and it does help to manage the painful feelings and get through the immediate crisis.

It's hard to keep fighting through that, though, when I know the source of those feelings isn't changing. I still don't have friends who can handle me as myself (rather than as the facade I perform for them). Even when I do meet someone who says they can handle my being authentic, I don't really know how to do that, and when I try, it still drives people away. People don't realize what they're getting themselves into when they say, "Just be yourself."

We recently started going to a new church because I screwed up everything at the old church--people were treating my kids like weirdos because I was so weird, and when we went back to visit recently, people hardly even spoke to me. At the new church, I'm scared to connect with anyone. I don't want anyone to know how awkward and broken I am. I don't want to mess this up for my kids.

My therapist says it's okay to hold back for a while. He says it's important that I don't risk trying to engulf the first person at the new church who offers me friendship. But it seems like it's not fair to pretend to be "normal" as best I can manage it for the sake of drawing someone in, and then dropping this bombshell on them that I'm not at all how I appear to be. Seems like it's better just to keep my distance and not burden anyone with my screwed-up reality.

Hello Dogwood!
I can totally simpathize, because I was there for decades. This is only my humble opinion, but here it is for what ever it may be worth. Being invisible SUCKS, wearing a mask SUCKS, being anything but authentic SUCKS! My solution? Be yourself no matter what, be yourself unapologeticly, and let your true nature shine. We all are unique, I don't ever want to be "normal". Just look the normal world, a bunch of imposters pretending to be each other, regurgitating the same pathetic view while exposing themselves as frauds and carbon copies of who they were taught who they should be. I would hope and pray you would come to appreciate just how awesome in your uniqueness you truly are. Please don't wait for society to understand or acknowledge your worth, KNOW IT YOURSELF! Then and only then can you be proud, with head held high, of how truly special being unique is. I got tired of being silent and invisible, so I allowed myself to be known, blowing away all who thought me to be some lower life form. I have a "Love light", I learned to love myself first, now I can love others if they have a love light too. Most just don't have this light. I have never met anyone who had a "Love Light" and then hid it under a bed. Turn on your love light, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine!
If you turn it off you'll have no one to blame but yourself when you're all alone. Keep shining and the right people will be attracted to it. It's far better to have a small circle of friends and loved ones than having many "fake friends". Love and connection start first in our own heads and hearts first, we must love ourselves just as we are. Once we learn this we attract others who can see this "light/love". Let the haters hate, they are the ones really hurting and alone...

 

[Larisa]

"I still don't have friends who can handle me as myself (rather than as the facade I perform for them). Even when I do meet someone who says they can handle my being authentic, I don't really know how to do that, and when I try, it still drives people away. People don't realize what they're getting themselves into when they say, "Just be yourself.

I feel for you. I thought of 'what the hell friendship/love is?' for 30 years of my conscious life. And I realized it's different for me - from many definitions, my own experience and people who somehow survived and kept contact with me occasionally.

Friendship from the movies - it's a big lie.

I come to conclusion, that 'friendship' is just a label for a system of mutually significant relationship between people who have interest in each other and can briefly understand each other. Briefly and rare, I can say. It's still friendship.

Every person is like a unique 3D figure and the socialization cuts most of them into standart 'forms' - but only on the outside.

Have you ever learned ball dances? I tried but did not succeed, got tired and quitted. I have learnt however what waltz - is a great illusion that outsiders can't ever guess. A female partner keeps her own balance every second (but few bows) and she does not in any way lean on her male partner. Unbelieveble, right? Look at her mass center - she stands bent back but she keeps balance on her own feet.
That's the only way that human relationships are really possible.

In psychology this 'keeping each person their own balance in motion' is called 'feeling the personal boundaries': to not take 'weight' or pressure of other person ('to say 'no'), to not fall on other person ('to get feedback on partner's feelings') and so on.
That's a check point: the partner can complain about their discomfort (and he's right here: what's needed attention, clarifyings and talking - to find comfortable distance and understanding) or their disapointment (i.e. him noticing the lack of your efforts to please them) - the second is mostly a loose case: a person is spoiled rotten and is hardly interested in real interpersonal interaction (but rather - their self-assertion on others).

Every person keeps their fragile balance in 'crazy waltz' of real life - among other 'dancers'.
They feel really hurt and stressed when a person tries to rely on them. I did that a lot and I am still doing - I can easily miss when my friend (who supported my talking at first) is overwhelmed by my continued enthusiastic talking. I'm a person who is really deeply wrapped in my own interests and I have got to respect other people's limited reserves and stop myself when they ask me to (they're really hurting, they feel discomfort - alas, I have to leave them on their own till they recover their reserves and express further interest in contact with me).
They are as scared and unsure inside just like myself - they are just better in keeping the 'carefree facade'.

It poisoned my relationships with other people for many years that I 'bought' their 'pretending that everything is Ok' for real Ok. It's not. They are not 'strong' who 'do not want to share' but just as vulnerable and doubtful inside like any human being. They just take pride in hiding it and pretending to be strong.
They get irritated at people (like me) who do not understand why to hide problems when talking about them can bring the solutions?
It's social 'taboo' - to _show_ weakness, that's it. But they still feel it.

I can say from my experience that I and my friends are very different persons with little common interests even though it's from sharing interests that our communication started.
The real contact with somebody - is about honest and sober understanding for the person:
- what do I _want_ to do for another person if they're in troubles (without expecting anything in return)?
- what positive emotions do I _get_ from just talking and meeting to the person?
These are questions to feel the personal boundaries intact - what do I want to share out of my own interest? My time? My attention? Anything?
There are plenty of people I don't want to share anything with - and it's natural. I want to share my resources only with people I genuinely care about - for them being themselves with me.

I hope I do not overly exausted your attention with my opinion on the matter.
I want to tell you how amazing person you are to raise your children! It's an astonishing achievement in my mind.
I don't have children and helping my sister with her daughter (my niece) drove me very close to insanity. I can't take it. I admire you for you can.
I noticed that you're honest with yourself and I think you're doing great - being yourself.
I support you with everything I am

 

[Larisa]

I thought about the dilemma you've pointed at - authenticity vs invisibility.
I tried to be invisible for all my childhood (because to be authentical was indeed suicidal next to my dysfunctional parents) - and I later recognized my fear of ghosts like the reflection of my invisible life among people who did treat me either as a ghost if they really looked at me - with fear and anger - or as a mindless object for their social games with other people.
That's why there are very few people I feel comfortable to look in the eye: my friends look at me with attention for my words, without any tension and without agression.
Most of the people have so harsh glance - like they calculate how can I-object fit into their own plans.
I chills me that they watch me like a potential buyer chooses a slave on the market.

So I did feel like a ghost most of my life - before I found comfort and pleasure to hug my friends - and doing that I feel with all my senses that I really am alive and physical, material. And they are real and alive. I can hardly believe that. I'm afraid to take it for granted.

After so much time and efforts spent on practising invisibility I ran into total depression. My penpal comitted suicide. I was shocked at first and then I realized that I envy her. I went to the psychologist my friend advised me - to learn being authentic or admit myself a total failure and the useless waste of oxigen and food - and follow my penpal.

I thought my authenticity should burst out of me, shine around and be all colorful and bright. I was wrong
The real me is very conservative, careful, pensive and hesitant - but curious and not aggressive by default as well - but I stopped to feel ashamed for my own emotions-reactions in the situations I lived through.
I learnt to recognize my worry 'what people would think about me?' and to care for not to hurt them personally in any way. But if I do not fit into their own expectations on me - I learn to live with that and part ways with them if they really suffer from not being able to see me for what I am and what I can offer.
They do not care to live up for my expectations also. It's absolutely impossible. Really.
Nobody has to 'take' anything from anyone: neither emotionally, not physically - it's called 'coercion' if not taken freely and willingly while feeling safe. (Have you ever been forced to accept some 'gifts' or 'signs of attention' you did not like from people you did not like? That was it - you have been forced into doing that. Even if that were words that were used against your feelings and your opinion - not a real weapon. Words can be very real weapons in matters of forcing).
And nobody has to feel themselves in debt - moral or financial - after accepting a gift.

I went through phases when I pushed myselt to be extravert (cause it was my idea of 'being and feeling alive'), Then I was totally depressed and dissapointed in my inability to be energetic and optimistic.
Then I got angry and tired to push and fight myself - and exausted to train my character into 'desirable form' - and then I dived deeply into my special interests (psychology became one of them eventually).
It took years but I find my inner feeling/understanding when I'm strained and when I'm relaxed.

Being myself - as I think now - is to be aware of oneself: physically and emotionally - in the current outward circumstances: people and situations.
What I think of now and of my past, of what is around me and what's interesting for me - is a huge part of myself. It's a constant semi-conscious formatting of my opinions and restoring to the best my personality after traumatic episodes I experience in my life (like when somebody yelled at me).
And that inner part of my working - is my core personal. Only psychologist I learnt to trust can support me in many of my doubts and thoughts. Or various people I discuss my thoughts in blogs - to some extent (but I think twice and consider my idea and its formulating from every known to me point of view - what I post and why it is necessary for me).
None of my friends can take the burden I carry in my brain every day - they have their own thoughts and doubts that I can not take for them just as well. We are unique and different personalities. I can share with them some my conclusions - but I have to think ahead how to formulate clearly my thoughts - from the very base for a complete stranger to the theme.
I have my written diary and I have a blog to post my musings and discuss them with people who give their opinion. I consider a lot of links between events and analize the situations around me - my friends do not like the process of my search but they pay attention to hear out things I feel really important for myself and want to share with them to know their opinion on the matter.
That's how I balance my interests and my friends who care for me but not for the detailed process of my thinking and analyzing of everything I notice.
I think to have a friend is to have somebody I can go for understanding/support (like 'I would feel hurt as well if I were in your shoes') and some real help if I got hurt in the real world. As a child I hid in their home for just a few hours away from my parents. They let me live with them for 4 months when I decided to start living separately from my parents (I had a job then, but I was terrified to live among other people on my own).
I go to them after I had a minor but stressful for me medical operation.
It's very rare that I really need that sort of support in the real world - and mostly I call and go to them to hear them out, to talk about something mutually interesting, to plan a new little travel together.
Sometimes it's them who seek me for my support if they are confused and afraid after some events.
I felt ashamed for many years that I can't help anybody for real - I never have free money, I don't have useful connections to the important people.
And then I realised that most of people - my friends included - do mostly know how to get lent money and the connections.
It's a sincere personal attention for them - that is the only thing I can really provide them with - that is the rarest and the most precious thing in the world of human social games.
That's how I realized I have my own unique resource - and I figured out what it was it that my parents and elders craved for.
Autistic children seem to be 'offensive' and 'disrespectful' because they don't give automatically _their_attention_ to the people who feel they have all the right to demand it.
It's me who chooses if I want to care about somebody - or not.
NT children raised and trained to give their attention by command, by the other's expectection and demand - to a parent, to a teacher, to a lover.
I give my attention ony to a person who earned my trust - the person I feel safe and comfortable with.
That notion makes common people angry and furious - because they are raised to believe that everything can be bought and sold. Including attention.
I do not sell my attention for money to a person who objectivates me and threatens me.
That a main problem with working with other people, I think: every boss I ever worked with thought that if he pays me money for my labour he owns my total attention by default.
I have 7th job in 13 years after my graduation. I resign it next week.
But in my past I found job places where I felt rather comfortable and was left to do my work on my own for couple of years - before it got to worsen.
I think I will find another place like that - there are many people who are sensible and reasonable out there in the world.
I have met them in the past. I hope to meet them in the future.
But for next couple of months I really need to curl into myself and to be alone for plenty of time - to recover, to restore my inner reserves and to consider my past experience and my real needs and interests.
And I will have time and space to visit and talk to my friends freely when I will feel l want and I am ready to meet them

 

[DogwoodTree]

I thought my authenticity should burst out of me, shine around and be all colorful and bright. I was wrong
The real me is very conservative, careful, pensive and hesitant - but curious and not aggressive by default as well

I think this is what has really surprised me on my own journey as well. I thought being "authentic" meant being extroverted and super friendly and always in tune with the people around you. But it's not necessarily that at all, and certainly not for me.

This has been a really difficult insight to digest and accept, though.

 

[Maelstrom]

I thought about the dilemma you've pointed at - authenticity vs invisibility.
I tried to be invisible for all my childhood (because to be authentical was indeed suicidal next to my dysfunctional parents) - and I later recognized my fear of ghosts like the reflection of my invisible life among people who did treat me either as a ghost if they really looked at me - with fear and anger - or as a mindless object for their social games with other people.
That's why there are very few people I feel comfortable to look in the eye: my friends look at me with attention for my words, without any tension and without agression.
Most of the people have so harsh glance - like they calculate how can I-object fit into their own plans.
I chills me that they watch me like a potential buyer chooses a slave on the market.

So I did feel like a ghost most of my life - before I found comfort and pleasure to hug my friends - and doing that I feel with all my senses that I really am alive and physical, material. And they are real and alive. I can hardly believe that. I'm afraid to take it for granted.

After so much time and efforts spent on practising invisibility I ran into total depression. My penpal comitted suicide. I was shocked at first and then I realized that I envy her. I went to the psychologist my friend advised me - to learn being authentic or admit myself a total failure and the useless waste of oxigen and food - and follow my penpal.

I thought my authenticity should burst out of me, shine around and be all colorful and bright. I was wrong
The real me is very conservative, careful, pensive and hesitant - but curious and not aggressive by default as well - but I stopped to feel ashamed for my own emotions-reactions in the situations I lived through.
I learnt to recognize my worry 'what people would think about me?' and to care for not to hurt them personally in any way. But if I do not fit into their own expectations on me - I learn to live with that and part ways with them if they really suffer from not being able to see me for what I am and what I can offer.
They do not care to live up for my expectations also. It's absolutely impossible. Really.
Nobody has to 'take' anything from anyone: neither emotionally, not physically - it's called 'coercion' if not taken freely and willingly while feeling safe. (Have you ever been forced to accept some 'gifts' or 'signs of attention' you did not like from people you did not like? That was it - you have been forced into doing that. Even if that were words that were used against your feelings and your opinion - not a real weapon. Words can be very real weapons in matters of forcing).
And nobody has to feel themselves in debt - moral or financial - after accepting a gift.

I went through phases when I pushed myselt to be extravert (cause it was my idea of 'being and feeling alive'), Then I was totally depressed and dissapointed in my inability to be energetic and optimistic.
Then I got angry and tired to push and fight myself - and exausted to train my character into 'desirable form' - and then I dived deeply into my special interests (psychology became one of them eventually).
It took years but I find my inner feeling/understanding when I'm strained and when I'm relaxed.

Being myself - as I think now - is to be aware of oneself: physically and emotionally - in the current outward circumstances: people and situations.
What I think of now and of my past, of what is around me and what's interesting for me - is a huge part of myself. It's a constant semi-conscious formatting of my opinions and restoring to the best my personality after traumatic episodes I experience in my life (like when somebody yelled at me).
And that inner part of my working - is my core personal. Only psychologist I learnt to trust can support me in many of my doubts and thoughts. Or various people I discuss my thoughts in blogs - to some extent (but I think twice and consider my idea and its formulating from every known to me point of view - what I post and why it is necessary for me).
None of my friends can take the burden I carry in my brain every day - they have their own thoughts and doubts that I can not take for them just as well. We are unique and different personalities. I can share with them some my conclusions - but I have to think ahead how to formulate clearly my thoughts - from the very base for a complete stranger to the theme.
I have my written diary and I have a blog to post my musings and discuss them with people who give their opinion. I consider a lot of links between events and analize the situations around me - my friends do not like the process of my search but they pay attention to hear out things I feel really important for myself and want to share with them to know their opinion on the matter.
That's how I balance my interests and my friends who care for me but not for the detailed process of my thinking and analyzing of everything I notice.
I think to have a friend is to have somebody I can go for understanding/support (like 'I would feel hurt as well if I were in your shoes') and some real help if I got hurt in the real world. As a child I hid in their home for just a few hours away from my parents. They let me live with them for 4 months when I decided to start living separately from my parents (I had a job then, but I was terrified to live among other people on my own).
I go to them after I had a minor but stressful for me medical operation.
It's very rare that I really need that sort of support in the real world - and mostly I call and go to them to hear them out, to talk about something mutually interesting, to plan a new little travel together.
Sometimes it's them who seek me for my support if they are confused and afraid after some events.
I felt ashamed for many years that I can't help anybody for real - I never have free money, I don't have useful connections to the important people.
And then I realised that most of people - my friends included - do mostly know how to get lent money and the connections.
It's a sincere personal attention for them - that is the only thing I can really provide them with - that is the rarest and the most precious thing in the world of human social games.
That's how I realized I have my own unique resource - and I figured out what it was it that my parents and elders craved for.
Autistic children seem to be 'offensive' and 'disrespectful' because they don't give automatically _their_attention_ to the people who feel they have all the right to demand it.
It's me who chooses if I want to care about somebody - or not.
NT children raised and trained to give their attention by command, by the other's expectection and demand - to a parent, to a teacher, to a lover.
I give my attention ony to a person who earned my trust - the person I feel safe and comfortable with.
That notion makes common people angry and furious - because they are raised to believe that everything can be bought and sold. Including attention.
I do not sell my attention for money to a person who objectivates me and threatens me.
That a main problem with working with other people, I think: every boss I ever worked with thought that if he pays me money for my labour he owns my total attention by default.
I have 7th job in 13 years after my graduation. I resign it next week.
But in my past I found job places where I felt rather comfortable and was left to do my work on my own for couple of years - before it got to worsen.
I think I will find another place like that - there are many people who are sensible and reasonable out there in the world.
I have met them in the past. I hope to meet them in the future.
But for next couple of months I really need to curl into myself and to be alone for plenty of time - to recover, to restore my inner reserves and to consider my past experience and my real needs and interests.
And I will have time and space to visit and talk to my friends freely when I will feel l want and I am ready to meet them

Maybe you are confusing pleasing people too much with making people happy they are not the same things at all really. In life it is almost impossible to please very many people they all want conflicting things and sometimes their own wants conflict.
In making people happy it is nice to remember to do small things to make others happy it is good for ones soul. But one has to measure what one does, each person has only so much time and energy to give others in ones day, so not all people are equal, a best friend or loved family member will always get a little more than a distant co-worker or stranger.
You seem to think you don't feel...but maybe I'm thinking you feel too bad when you short some one in life on attention or friendship.
You should try not to feel so bad Larisa ,it is okay to try to live within your own limitations...it is okay!
All of us Aspies struggle with this we have much less energy to deal with the world and people...and it is common to get very tired and crash on social things.
Just do what you feel you are able to, don't* feel bad if you have to tell some one you are too tired etcetera... it is the truth, and save your warm friendship stuff for the few friends you feel safe with...okay?
Best wishes to you in life Larisa saying no some times is the best thing you can do.
bad typo* sorry!