Adult Daughter intolerant and condescending about me sharing my diagnosis and trying to educate her about it

[Ronald Zeeman]

The tragedy of it all is the reality that everyone defaults to their own thought processes, whether neurotypical or neurodivergent. However there is one enormous consideration to make. What I always refer to as "the numbers".

Granted the CDC's assessment may not be entirely accurate, however as a benchmark there is one glaring statistic to consider in why most NTs are so quick to support and default only to their own way of thinking:

Because for every one of us, there are sixty-eight of them.

Compounded by a society that covets the consensus of any majority. Making it fundamental for so many without any knowledge or ties to autistic persons to naturally default to their way of thinking and ignore our own.

Leaving us in a perpetual mathematical minority. A devastating, and quite impersonal thing we are forced to deal with, where in most cases even the closest persons in our social orbit will not understand, and have no incentive to do so anyways. And it's not their fault as to how the disparity between us and them has happened.

My mother when younger was forced to use her right hand she is left-handed, the tyranny of the majority will never chance in a hurry.my older brother was also left- handed and me being ambidextrous made it easy for me to sit next to him when we had meals together.

 

[Judge]

My mother when younger was forced to use her right hand she is left-handed, the tyranny of the majority will never chance in a hurry.my older brother was also left- handed and me being ambidextrous made it easy for me to sit next to him when we had meals together.

A painfully familiar story.

As a young child I too was found to be ambidextrous. Along with having difficulty in facing people in the eyes, my parents aggressively convinced me that I must resist such tendencies are they are not "socially acceptable".

Years later towards my adult years I wondered how many people might have been burned at the stake for such things.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Happy those days are over now just right-handed do to stroke.

 

[Judge]

To the OP, you're not alone.

It still hurts each and every time I mention autism for whatever reason to my cousin, who always manages to marginalize autism itself. Yet she has had a background in medical insurance for decades.

My own brother seemed to acknowledge it the best he could, yet clearly at times he doesn't understand how it is manifested by me. When sometimes we are forced to live under such circumstances, where it's more than likely they may never comprehensively understand us. And of course the reciprocal, and how difficult it can be on a daily basis to exist in a Neurotypical world.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

My bothers wife a teacher did not know her husband was on the spectrum until she was shown how to detect it in students. His special interest is the stock market. great for rest of us. She vacations alone travels a lot. Works for them. His stoke tips are amazing.

 

[Judge]

His special interest is the stock market. great for rest of us.

It was mine too, until I retired. Loved being self-employed, though the risk factor wore me down eventually as a personal investor.

Being self-employed was great, but always risking 100% of my own capital not so much. A reason why it's awkward to emphasize this as a great way for anyone on the spectrum to make a living!

 

[Hypnalis]

I've not heard of the "Main Character Syndrome" I'll have to look into it.

As in "Main Character of a movie - camera's always on the MCS, and they have "plot armor" keeping them safe from everyone and everything" I used to use "Little Princess" (pins the mental/emotional maturity better), but MCS is going mainstream and it abbreviates well.

What do you mean by "soft mitigation technique? I am intrigued.

The basic principle with narcs is that they need to get what they want, which paints a target on their forehead.
Your having what they need reverses the control. But doormats can't do that, so Narcs easiest victims need to work on their spine before acting.

Hopefully in your case, the principle is just to selectively check them: be less accommodating when it's plausibly polite.

I'm out of time, but if you can do this without getting caught, you can slowly rebalance the relationship.
If you're still interested, we can talk some more tomorrow (EU time).

BTW extreme "golden children" can be damaged to the point that this kind of gentle approach isn't effective.
If you think that's the case, I can't/won't help.

 

[The Pandector]

My wife’s death set the stage for me to self-diagnose. In the aftermath (months later) was a bad time to reveal it to my son, but I foolishly thought they, like me, would be gratified to understand some of my oddities. Not the case.

Since then, I have been profoundly ashamed that my own sons took it as an ‘excuse’, as you say, for being less than perfect. A talk with my DIL also revealed that they felt robbed; they had always been semi-secretly proud of my 2E skills and accomplishments, and finding out it was due to a fault rather than simple mental prowess was unacceptable.

But I suffered several months of inconsolable grief following the death, during which I was there for nobody, definitely not the rational stoic they expected… a grave failure, apparently. Following such a display, they concluded I was making excuses. It would be a few years before I could start to forgive them for abandoning me the first time I ever really needed them to be there for me.

One son, I came to realize, is married to a family deeply impacted by autism. His wife and at least two of her (previous) children are undiagnosed but pretty obvious, and most of the grandchildren are moving through the various pseudo diagnoses of ADD, ADHD, and one autism diagnosis. DIL’s stance is that we’re all people and nobody has the right to say you have some judgmental thing wrong with you. Not much support for me, as I think she feels the school authorities are zeroing in on a private family secret she doesn’t feel the need to discuss.

The other son was disgusted at my claim. But I raised and homeschooled the little brat to think, investigate, mull things over. Several hard months later, I asked if he was investigating. He said he was… “a little”. He was bugged when I said, “Great! I know you’ll come around.” Slowly but surely, he has been coming around, but still doesn’t want to discuss it.

So I figure that, if my own carefully trained children can be bigoted and selfish b!tch@s, I can’t expect better from the world. Both sons had previously adopted the autism-as-scam attitude and breaking that down is a successful project still in process. I was way too successful in teaching that excuses don’t cut mustard.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

It was mine too, until I retired. Loved being self-employed, though the risk factor wore me down eventually as a personal investor.

Being self-employed was great, but always risking 100% of my own capital not so much. A reason why it's awkward to emphasize this as a great way for anyone on the spectrum to make a living

My brother retired in his fifties invested while working he was top best Maintenace guy could do things Nt's could not saved company millions with his suggestions quit when plant closed Ford electronics. made so much money on stocks that his next position, he worked for the fun did not like coworker offered to pay severance him or them.

 

[330]

I'm sorry to read things are so rough for you, at the moment. That sucks.
Thank you for the supportive words despite how things are for you at the moment

Thx much better now , but this morning was rough .

 

[330]

@Judge

Same here ambidextrous. Makes more sense to me to have both hands capable . Why the social construct to only use the right hand is so odd.

It’s so absurd, Imagine telling people they can only use their right eye, right ear and only walk sideways lol right side only of course

 

[leehart]

Neri, firstly I am so sorry to read what you have been through, in your marriage and with your kids, getting the diagnosis should be a moment that helps you but so often brings new battles!

i am recently diagnosed, my son sounds similar to yours, he has a learning disability and autism and many do conflate the two, to be honest i do the same even though im autistic myself! His is one expression of autism and yours is different and people need to realise that, it is also likely a reason why he naturally gravitates to you and not others.

I am not sure what to advice - other than work on self care - try to set some boundaries that you feel might protect yourself. Could you point your daughter to some online resources that might expand her mind some? Not sure if she would engage with that. I really hope you are able to make ground.

 

[Neri]

As in "Main Character of a movie - camera's always on the MCS, and they have "plot armor" keeping them safe from everyone and everything" I used to use "Little Princess" (pins the mental/emotional maturity better), but MCS is going mainstream and it abbreviates well.


The basic principle with narcs is that they need to get what they want, which paints a target on their forehead.
Your having what they need reverses the control. But doormats can't do that, so Narcs easiest victims need to work on their spine before acting.

Hopefully in your case, the principle is just to selectively check them: be less accommodating when it's plausibly polite.

I'm out of time, but if you can do this without getting caught, you can slowly rebalance the relationship.
If you're still interested, we can talk some more tomorrow (EU time).

BTW extreme "golden children" can be damaged to the point that this kind of gentle approach isn't effective.
If you think that's the case, I can't/won't help.

I don't think she's that extreme. But being Daddy's girl for so long has rubbed off on her.

I did say to her, basically, that she'll have to meet me half way. Which is me learning to put in better boundaries with her.

At this point I'm open to building a relationship with my 2.5 yr old grand daughter, and at the same, allowing my daughter to put some effort into our relationship, built on reciprocity, from here on.

Myself and guyfriend adore hanging out with the grandbaby but I'm actually furious and seriously butthurt by my daughter. So I won't be reaching out to her anytime soon, other than to offer babysitting.

It's the willful ignorance and disrespect toward myself that wilds me up.

I will be giving her the talking to, that I never had with her before, at some point. She is being quite spoilt princess-y.

The narcy tactics of her dad had me on the back foot for too many years. Given that I was 16 (and he 34) when I met him, and a homeless autist, I would say that my chronic experiences of powerlessness with the man, was pretty understandable.

He preferred to get in with smear tactic accusations first; didn't matter if they were wildly exaggerated, completely erroneous, or just exploiting my suffering, lack of social wiles and poor processing abilities. So, if I had tried to defend myself, it would just have come across as tit for tat and I didn't have any level of understanding of what was going on, at all. I really was convinced that what he said was true, that I was "crazy".

So, it seems my girl has imbibed a goodly amount of his narcissism toward me, I think very unconsciously, as is the way of these things, more often than not.
But she's far from being pathologically narcissistic.

Me and guy friend have modelled a lot of healthy relating, and she has expressed wanting "that". I think she has a lot of growing up to do though, and perhaps some "trauma recovery", however that looks for her, and I've said as much. Very diplomatically, I might add

One thing think she said, which, is kind of reasonable, from someone looking from the outside in, is that trauma can explain a lot of what she sees in my struggles, which is what the only psychiatrist I've seen said. Mind you, she was a trauma specialist psych, not an Autism psych.

I think what is underlying her attitude is the stance her dad always took. He had a favourite catch cry "labelling is disabling", and I think he has a terror of getting a diagnosis himself. No doubt he could cop some kind of cluster B diagnosis, and yet he does come across pretty Autie, as well. (You might be able to tell that I have an interest in clinical science).

I've had a psychologist who told me that he may well be psychopathic. So no doubt, my kids are gonna be pretty damaged, and maybe, probably, some of them struggle with empathy and compassion, both genetically and from our family culture

Actually, my youngest, the "gifted Aspie boy, told me " I would be a psychopath, if it wasn't for you, mum". He said he decided to be a kind person because of me and he's worked hard at it. I couldn't be happier with his progress. And he's only 18.

I think I want to tell my daughter. When you leave here, you will realize, I think, that nothing is more important that the kindness you embodied here. By many accounts; of those who experienced near death experiences, that had been what the "life review" is about, how kind and loving you were, and only that.

 

[Neri]

Neri, firstly I am so sorry to read what you have been through, in your marriage and with your kids, getting the diagnosis should be a moment that helps you but so often brings new battles!

i am recently diagnosed, my son sounds similar to yours, he has a learning disability and autism and many do conflate the two, to be honest i do the same even though im autistic myself! His is one expression of autism and yours is different and people need to realise that, it is also likely a reason why he naturally gravitates to you and not others.

I am not sure what to advice - other than work on self care - try to set some boundaries that you feel might protect yourself. Could you point your daughter to some online resources that might expand her mind some? Not sure if she would engage with that. I really hope you are able to make ground.

Well I wasn't ever married to him. It wasn't really a marriage. He was the baby dada though. He did allow me into his band. He was the ephebophile who seduced me, statutory rape really and knocked me up at just 17.
Apologies if that sounds raw and rough and not at all nice. There really was nothing nice about it, other than my beautiful babies, and getting to sing and dance in his band
What can a homeless autistic girl expect though?I was not in a particularly advantaged position. But to call it a marriage? No.
It was being held hostage through pregnancy, disability and morality. I couldn't abandon my children and I couldn't care for them on my own. Not the same thing as marriage.

My second pregnancy was after I had tried to escape. I couldn't stay away from him because of having his baby. I couldn't be homeless and socially disabled and expect to keep my baby, so I went back. Then, in severe depression and disability, I got pregnant and had a "failure to thrive" baby. He has been a major source of contention between me and his father. The man cannot bear to acknowledge that he has a disabled son.

And no, my daughter is not interested in learning about autism. That is the main problem, other than her disrespect toward me about the issue.

Thanks for the empathy though and for trying to help and give advice. I appreciate your intentions.

Oh, and I haven't been with the baby dada for 13, going on 14 years now.
And that son is 31 now and doing pretty well, all things considered. He's out of his dad's clutches and I couldn't be happier.
I tell him we are both autistic. He knows that he has an intellectual disability and I don't, but he is my awesome, lovable, computer gamer geek gorgeous son and I love him dearly AND I'm fortunate to have great people giving him day to day care. A great crew of them. So grateful for that!

 

[Neri]

I have not had this experience myself, but that sounds horrendous. My dad was likely an undiagnosed Autistic, and made for a great scapegoat by his mom and my mom. So I've seen this situation from the child's view.

I think Judge is right in his assessment. After I got diagnosed, I talked more with my brother and my dad's sister about my dad's Autistic traits. While they accept my diagnosis, they seem less convinced about him, though he better fits the stereotypes. Sometimes, I think people already have their view of us, and very little will change that. Which sucks, when you experience self-discovery, and better understand yourself. And that must be extra hard since these are your children.

Perhaps you will just have to continue on your path, and see if they come around. Nothing else may convince them, if they change their minds at all.

At the moments, it's just one of my children.
I made the mistake of saying I thought MAYBE she and her sister were the most neurotypical in our family and she didn't like me saying that.
All of my son's show strong traits, one is disgnosed, one has started the process of diagnosis and one strongly identified with having ADHD (but he acts very like a Asperger's type Autistic person). The one getting diagnosed and the one who identifies with ADHD, both are happy to talk about neurodiversity and ASD. I guess I just have to gauge, better, who I can mention it to and who I better NOT mention it to.

My Dad has self identified his Aspergers Autism by now, but growing up, I felt my mother disdain and, a little bit of contempt, toward and she often told me "You are so like your father".
My assumption was "Well you don't like my dad so you don't like me". They split up when I was 2.5.
I have other neices and nephews who are diagnosed, or in the process of diagnosis.

I like the advice you gave me. Basically, just to be myself, be true to myself, and to not have attachment about how and whether all my children accept me and my identity or my diagnosis, as an autistic person.
I do think I will focus on that
If anything, my daughter treating me like that?
Has given me permission (in my mind) to not try so hard, as a parent (and lets face it, they are all adults now, so I don't have to) and to focus on myself and my wellbeing more.

Its not that I'm retiring from being a mum, but, my health isn't that awesome, so I need to just do me, for a while. Be me healthily.

 

[Hypnalis]

At this point I'm open to building a relationship with my 2.5 yr old grand daughter, and at the same, allowing my daughter to put some effort into our relationship, built on reciprocity, from here on.

This isn't the situation I was writing for earlier, so part of what I wrote isn't applicable.

It sounds like you're not looking to mitigate bad behavior as such. This seems like a trade: access to your grand-daughter vs services (primarily babysitting). I'll get back to you on this.

Too bad there was a long-standing difference in power between you and your ex.
But something you may not have considered earlier: "Labelling is disabling" is stupid (it's generally incorrect), but it's probably also an example of someone painting a target on their own back. It sounds like it is (or was) something to help him deny a major insecurity to himself, and deflect it in conversation.

Back on topic, the change in the power dynamic means different tactics are needed.

A suggestion: defer having "the talk" you mentioned with your daughter.
It would be likely to induce pushback, which would be counter-productive (at least if you're playing to win). It's easier to get the results you want if you never provide something to push against.

"The best way to get someone to do what you want is to give them what they want".

For now, you want to "monetize" your daughter's need for attention and (the illusion of) control, rather than "cure " them.

 

[Neri]

The tragedy of it all is the reality that everyone defaults to their own thought processes, whether neurotypical or neurodivergent. However there is one enormous consideration to make. What I always refer to as "the numbers".

Granted the CDC's assessment may not be entirely accurate, however as a benchmark there is one glaring statistic to consider in why most NTs are so quick to support and default only to their own way of thinking:

Because for every one of us, there are sixty-eight of them.

Compounded by a society that covets the consensus of any majority. Making it fundamental for so many without any knowledge or ties to autistic persons to naturally default to their way of thinking and ignore our own.

Leaving us in a perpetual mathematical minority. A devastating, and quite impersonal thing we are forced to deal with, where in most cases even the closest persons in our social orbit will not understand, and have no incentive to do so anyways. And it's not their fault as to how the disparity between us and them has happened.

Even if the numbers are not right, as people seeking diagnosis are the ones having the most trouble "fitting in" and to account for misdiagnosis, as well as the high cost and lack of expertise in plenty of places, as far as we can tell, we are in the minority. The term "neurodivergent" implies that there is a "neurotypical", and we are not it.

I do have some doubt about that. I think, perhaps there are an awful lot of undiagnosed and unaware neurodivergent folk who just manage to go under the radar and, perhaps, are tolerated, because they are good enough, or exceptional at what they do and they've found a way to manage, without extra help.

When my dad asked his university, where he's currently doing his PhD, if there where any special dispensations or considerations because of his "Aspergers" or Autism (I'm not sure of the language he used). His supervisor told him he'd be hard pressed to find anyone there, (in their department, I guess) who WASN'T on the Spectrum.
I mean it was a joke, I guess. But was it?
Maybe she meant, the general alumni of the uni, but, regardless, I thought that was interesting. It sounded to me like she was saying that there are an awful lot of undiagnosed academics, at least, in their university.

 

[Neri]

This isn't the situation I was writing for earlier, so part of what I wrote isn't applicable.

It sounds like you're not looking to mitigate bad behavior as such. This seems like a trade: access to your grand-daughter vs services (primarily babysitting). I'll get back to you on this.

Too bad there was a long-standing difference in power between you and your ex.
But something you may not have considered earlier: "Labelling is disabling" is stupid, but it's probably also an example of someone painting a target on their own back. It sounds like it is (or was) something to help him deny a major insecurity to himself, and deflect it in conversation.

Back on topic, the change in the power dynamic means different tactics is needed.

A suggestion: defer having "the talk" you mentioned with your daughter.
It would be likely to induce pushback, which would be counter-productive (at least if you're playing to win). It's easier to get the results you want if you never provide something to push against.

"The best way to get someone to do what you want is to give them what they want".

For now, you want to "monetize" your daughter's need for attention and (the illusion of) control, rather than "cure " them.

Yes. I think you are right; Re deferring the conversation.

I need A LOT of time, just to work on my own emotional regulation, anyway.

I think there will come a time, but, it's probably later rather than sooner.

I think I will wait for her to approach me, as part of my strategy of boundary enforcing. I had to do this for many years, due to the "flying monkey" situation, my ex put them in.

The older children, have come to me in recent years, when they, themselves, were in crisis, and I was able to give them much needed support.
I'm comfortable with that role, and dare I say it, quite good at it.
So if it comes to it, I can leave any kind of interaction with my daughter for as long as needed; for her to come to me when she needs the kinds of support I provide very adequately.

That tends to be the situation that doesn't leave me vulnerable to those dynamics of their entitlement and lack of respect. Its been going on so many years now, I'm an old hand at it. Although, having said that, its incredibly tiresome. Exhausting. And unpleasant. And it still hurts, regardless

 

[Neri]

Ultimately, we can't control who believes we are autistic. Heck, even some experts might disagree between each other, let our alone family members.

The only thing that is in our control is using our diagnosis (self or otherwise) to live in a wiser, more self-compassionate way.

Still, no one will deny it's a better situation when others do believe it. It's very hurtful to be denied after opening up about something so personal.

Thank you. It is hurtful. For me, it is a core part of how I see myself; my identity. And I love my daughter very much, so yes. Painful and disappointing. But not uncommon.
Thank you for your empathy, sympathy and understanding. .

 

[Neri]

This isn't the situation I was writing for earlier, so part of what I wrote isn't applicable.

It sounds like you're not looking to mitigate bad behavior as such. This seems like a trade: access to your grand-daughter vs services (primarily babysitting). I'll get back to you on this.

Too bad there was a long-standing difference in power between you and your ex.
But something you may not have considered earlier: "Labelling is disabling" is stupid (it's generally incorrect), but it's probably also an example of someone painting a target on their own back. It sounds like it is (or was) something to help him deny a major insecurity to himself, and deflect it in conversation.

Back on topic, the change in the power dynamic means different tactics are needed.

A suggestion: defer having "the talk" you mentioned with your daughter.
It would be likely to induce pushback, which would be counter-productive (at least if you're playing to win). It's easier to get the results you want if you never provide something to push against.

"The best way to get someone to do what you want is to give them what they want".

For now, you want to "monetize" your daughter's need for attention and (the illusion of) control, rather than "cure " them.

Yes regarding the monitization. She has highly capitalistic aspirations. She is disappointed in me (one reason, at least) because when she was pregnant she told me to get my drivers license, so I could come over, at her beck and call, to help her with baby.
I haven't done that yet, but, I'm working on it, albeit slowly.
One of the reasons for my diagnosis, to get some more assistance around learning to drive and getting a licence.
Her entitlement around that is something I'm willing to address though. I think offering her to drop baby off, for the day, is reasonable, even without my licence. Potentially, she won't take me up on that. I sense a little need to feel victimized by my lack of abilities, as firmly as her denial of them. Which seems a little vindictive. But daddy modelled a lot of that, so it shouldn't be surprising.