Unsure? Help is appreciated

[kokonuss]

Hi everyone. This is my first post on here and I just signed up so hello. I apologize in advance for not being able to put my feelings into words and my tendency to write (extremely) lengthy paragraphs.

I don't really know if I have Asperger's/Autism or not. A while ago I had taken a quiz just out of curiosity and scored highly, but I figured it was because I'm introverted. But recently I was online and I saw an article about a research project to determine if transgender persons are more likely to have Asperger's/Autism or vice versa. It showed that transgender people, especially Female-to-Male (FtM) people, were found to have more signs of Asperger's/Autism than cisgender people. I am FtM, and I have a friend who has Asperger's and is also FtM. So I did some research and took all those little quiz things I could find, and I'm quite concerned that I may have it as well. So everything is mostly based off the research I've done.

When I was younger, I had a lot of difficulty making friends. My sister was just fine at it, and I often got upset with her because she had more friends than me. Since we're twins, we had a lot of the same friends, although it was usually her that went out and made them. Many of the friends I have now are the same people I hung around in elementary school. I was friendly towards the people in my class, but everyone thought I was strange and seemed to do their best to avoid me. In fact, during the 3rd grade, my teacher actually had to force people to play with me. I still have a lot of difficulty making new friends and keeping friendships. Sometimes I don't talk with my friends for weeks, or months, and when I do try to pick up where we left off, they're not there anymore. Or I take a while to reply because I just don't know how to respond, or how to say what I want.

Another thing is that a lot of things go over my head. 2 years ago, when I first starting dating my partner, I didn't know they liked me until they flat out told me "I like you". I told my sister and my friends about it, and they said things along the lines of "well someone finally caught on" and "how could you not have known?" so apparently everyone else knew before.
Sometimes I'm a very sarcastic person, but sometimes a lot of sarcasm goes right past me too. I also have a lot of trouble telling if someone's joking or not. My class almost voted me "most gullible" for senior superlative. I do enjoy making jokes, but most of the jokes I make are plays-on-words or very obvious "bad" jokes.
I guess another aspect of this is that sometimes people get upset with me for taking things too literally. Or, I'll say something and others will get upset with me for saying it, but I fail to understand what was wrong with what I said. This happened when I was younger more often than now. Also, sometimes I don't get why people think something is funny or why someone feels a certain way or things like that. (I actually took a Psychology course in hopes of learning why people do specific things, but all it talked about was how children develop. :| )
I suppose another thing about that is I have a hard time helping people feel better when they're upset or giving advice. My partner is upset a lot, but it always seems like I just make things worse when I try to help. It's not that I don't care; I don't know what to say. Sometimes I also end up feeling really bad, because I feel like I make everything about me. But maybe I do.

Something else I've seen is that people with Asperger's/Autism have limited interests. Again, I'm not really sure if I do this or not. I like a variety of things, but usually what I focus on is music and languages. I play 2 instruments and I'm trying to learn 2 more (I want to learn basically everything), I'm Drum Major of my school's Marching Band, and I might minor in music in college. I also speak Japanese and I spend a lot of time trying to learn other languages. I do find it very hard to get the hang of languages on my own though (my Japanese was learned at school), whether that makes a difference or not. I also very much enjoy to learn new words and I used to keep a list of words I liked, until I lost it.
When I was younger, I liked dolphins and the color pink. Literally EVERY piece of clothing I had was pink. Also, I've read that a lot of Autistic people don't like to wear certain fabrics of clothing, and until I was in the 5th or 6th grade, I WOULD NOT wear jeans. I don't know why; I guess I just didn't like how they felt.

I've also read that people with Asperger's/Autism have poor executive function skills, like turning in homework and keeping track of things. I tend to lose things a lot (like my word list) and I'm currently failing two classes because of not turning in my homework. And I've read that people with Asperger's have trouble making eye contact, and once I started paying attention to it, I've noticed that a lot of the time, I just.. don't.. make any eye contact at all.

I do have some concerns about it though. For example, lots of people I've heard of with Asperger's/Autism are very very good at math and science. However, this may just be a stereotype. I'm going to major in Chemistry in college, but I'm extremely poor at math. Sometimes I still have to count on my fingers for basic addition. I'm not too great at science either, but I'm interested in it. Although, music is very mathematical.

Another concern is genetics. I know that science still hasn't found a cause for Asperger's/Autism (and that there may not be one), but if there is a genetic link, I'm confused as to why I have such difficulty with these things, but my twin doesn't. We're identical twins (monozygotic) so we have the same DNA and genes and all, but she doesn't seem to have the problems I do. I also have a cousin with Autism, but I'm not sure what he's like since I haven't seen him since I was 6, because he lives across the country and doesn't like to fly.

Lastly, I'm wondering why, if I do have Asperger's, I never noticed before. Or why nobody else noticed before. I'm 17 right now, and I'll be 18 in a few months.

I know nobody on here is a licensed doctor or anything, so I guess what I'm really looking for is advice. I'm absolutely not trying to stereotype or be offensive or make assumptions or anything like that. And I'm definitely not trying to self-diagnose. I do have a therapist that I go to about other issues, and I've mentioned this before, but we haven't talked about it much. However, she did say something about me having problems with social development, but I don't know how that fits in.

There's a lot more I could say, but I think I've made this too long already. So, I guess if someone can help at all, that'd be great. Either way, thanks for reading.

 

[Rocco]

Welcome aboard
A lot of people get through life undiagnosed or receive a late diagnosis. I was misdiagnosed until age 33, then I got an official diagnosis. If you have health insurance, you can seek a referral to a specialist.
Females are know to exhibit some different Aspie traits than males, but there is no specific rule, it is a spectrum.

I have many questions for you, as a twin, if I might ask in a private conversation?
I have identical twin daughters, and one is Very different and socially challenged. They are 12.

My therapist did not recognize my autism, but gave me a referral anyhow. The specialist picked up in it immediately.
Those of us who made it some distance in diagnosed had/had learned to adapt and improvise to get by. I certainly did.
Surf the forums, there are many testimonies of our lives on here, and a great friendly community.
Best wishes

 

[Lukas]

LOL!! That first paragraph pretty much said it all for me!!

I can so relate to much of what you posted and do wish to welcome you here.. No need to apologize at all! My paragraphs tend to be rather lengthy as well.. At least they do when I have proper time to post anymore.

Transgender.... I have not read anything about transgender or gender dysphoric (sp?) folks having a tendency for the autistic spectrum, but as an Aspie, I do seem to relate well to trans folks. While, not trans myself, I somehow seem to easily understand many of their issues and do strongly advocate for them. We seem to have something in common, not sure what that is exactly, but it is there. Perhaps it's the spectrum.... Insofar as the whole gender issue ... I see gender as a spectrum just like autism... everyone has their own colour, none are alike, and all are awesomely unique..

Friends..... I have extremely few myself, and have huge interpersonal issues that I continue to work on to this day.

Music/the Arts...... I have been a musician (guitar, violin) and visual artist since age 7. Professional exhibiting artist since 1985. The arts and my issues are quite hand in hand as I used the arts to express that which I could not verbally or emotionally.

Forgetfulness... my middle name. If it were not for my iPhone... I would forget the day of the week...LOL

The bottom line of this most fragmented and uncharacteristic welcome post is.... no matter if you are diagnosed or not... you are you ... and you are no doubt, from just reading this post, a very interesting person with lots to contribute to this world. We all need to be able to look in the mirror and not only accept who is there, but also see the awesome individual we all are... issues may be a pain, but they are indeed facets to a complicated, unique and awesome human being. Your posting here albeit proves that!

Anyway.. WELCOME to the board!!!

Rocco graced you with one of his paintings... OMG, I wish I were that prolific!!!!

(Rocco.. you are awesome BTW!)

 

[nowwhat]

Read our stories here and see how much rings true. Among internet forums, this is a wonderful place. Very nice, with the necessary staff to make sure it stays safe and nice, which sadly, is the only way it will happen. Remember that a diagnosis will not really change a thing. There might be some medication to help. You might gain some rights, benefits and services, or you might lose some. I think, though it is always good to know ourselves, which helps us make better decisions on a daily basis.

When you are overwhelmed, remember this is one place where people actually understand you. Most of us do not have that at all IRL. I know I do not. I know a a couple of aspies in my world, but neither is aware of their status, and I'm not about to venture it to them.

 

[Suzanne]

I could almost be reading about me!!!! Also you sound so apologist, just like me, when I first joined. I even felt a fraud because of not being professionally diagnosed, but now, no longer that apologetic fraud of a woman lol

No worries about the long thread; I LOVE reading long threads and I am the same!

I am still not professionally diagnosed and just the other day, on seeing a dr, she reckons there is no way I am and all because she has classic autistic patients and thus, made her conclusion on that, without knowing absolutely nothing about me, other than I am extremely social phobic.

For the record, my maths is so bad that I can barely even use or understand a calculator And yep my hands come in pretty handy when calculating and thus, I would not win any contest for aspie math's genius lol

Wow so relate to your twin. Although I am not of a twin, one of my sister's who is 2 year's younger than me, at a click of her finger, she could and still can make friends; not me - completely the opposite. Generally speaking, we would go somewhere on holiday and it is the last day, that I have a hint of a friend, but never went anywhere.

I meet quite a few people that I like, but even at 45, I have no idea how to initiate a friendship and so, miss out of many opportunities. I mean: how on earth do people do it?

My one friend is also an aspie, and we met on line and have remained friends for about 4 years. She is like coming up to 20 and thus, very much my junior, but we get on famously well. She taught me the art of chatting online, for I really did not know how it worked or what on earth one can talk about! I am tons better now.

As for who is likely to be an aspie. Well I am completely woman and have no desire to change into a man and yet I am an aspie!

I am tons better with eye contact, but still feels really strange!

I give sympathy because I know that is what I am supposed to do, but if I was asked honestly, what I feel? I think I would say: analytical about it all! I am inclined to try and find out how to solve the problem, rather than just be a listening ear!

I have got shocked looks with what I come out with, but I am aware that they are not regular things to say, but it is like I have brain freeze and just blurt out the worst thing possible lol

You are so welcome and feel sure that you will find peace of mind soon.

 

[kokonuss]

Hello again
Thank you all for your comments and being so nice.
I'm very glad that someone else can relate to these things; I've always felt very out of place about them, especially making friends.

I will try to bring it up again to my therapist. The last time we were able to talk about it, she said I do have traits, but I'm unsure if she meant something else by that. I was going to say something last time, but I forgot. Although, she is the same therapist my friend went to, and he got his diagnosis from her, so I'm not saying I'm not confident in her abilities. But I do wish I could talk about it with her more in depth without feeling like a hypochondriac. A lot of the time we'll be talking about one thing, but the topic switches and I forget about whatever I was going to say before.

Rocco-- Thank you for the painting! I'd be glad to have a private conversation with you.

 

[On the Inside]

Hello again

But I do wish I could talk about it with her more in depth without feeling like a hypochondriac. A lot of the time we'll be talking about one thing, but the topic switches and I forget about whatever I was going to say before.

I have the same trouble, I've seen four different therapists in the past 4.5 years, two of which did very little for me because I was reluctant to really open up (not wanting to seem the hypochondriac). I also have trouble staying on topic, starting up where we left off, keeping myself from spending the whole session ranting.

My current therapist specializes in ASD, and after a few months of working out how that affects my life, we've agreed to mainly work on strategies to help me negotiate through life better. She is also very adept at steering things back to a productive use of time. She lets me know that she understands and knows where I'm coming from.

It is a short period of time, though, and I only see her 1-3 times a month. This forum has become a vital part of my understanding and acceptance of this condition.

Welcome, and good luck.

 

[kokonuss]

Ahh I'm so glad I'm not the only one who does that. I've seen multiple therapists as well, but for issues such as depression and self-harm, not ASD. When I was younger, my parents forced me to go to these two really terrible ones. The one I see now is the best out of any that I've seen and I think she's the nicest. It's also better that I'm not being forced and I go by my own will.
But, I'm getting off topic again.

I do think I have a lot of trouble opening up because I don't want to sound like I'm faking it or like a hypochondriac.

Thank you all for your welcomes

 

[Slithytoves]

Welcome, Kokonuss! Others here have addressed your autistic traits, but I wanted to add a word about the connection between gender dysphoria and ASD, since others may read this down the road.

The few studies that examined co-occurrence have been criticized for various flaws. All studies had very small samples. One study (Pasterski, et al) recruited participants in a very casual way and relied on self-report rather than rigorous clinical evaluation for identifying autism traits. In the study done by Simon Baron-Cohen (known for the "extreme male brain" theory of autism), the FtM participants had all been actively taking male hormones, which other scientists argue may have affected them in ways the study didn't adequately take into account. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I see yet another problem with the basic angle of the studies to date. All of the studies I've seen have been framed as investigating the prevalence of ASDs in gender dysphoric people. That may well be confusing the issue. What I personally think they should have been investigating the prevalence of gender dysphoria in people with ASDs. That may sound like six of one, a half-dozen of the other, but as many of us in the spectrum community (and almost any clinical researcher) might understand, there is a distinction.

A significant number of people on the spectrum, higher than the neurotypical population, identify as being something other than heterosexual and/or cisgender. You'll find a disproportionate number of gay, bi, trans, pansexual, asexual and other sexual minorities right here on AC. So the real question that needs exploring is about why people with ASDs tend toward "variant" sex/gender identities. Examining possible links between one sex/gender variation and ASDs ignores too much else to be truly reliable science when there's obviously something bigger going on.

Just my opinion.

 

[kokonuss]

The few studies that examined co-occurrence have been criticized for various flaws. All studies had very small samples. One study (Pasterski, et al) recruited participants in a very casual way and relied on self-report rather than rigorous clinical evaluation for identifying autism traits. In the study done by Simon Baron-Cohen (known for the "extreme male brain" theory of autism), the FtM participants had all been actively taking male hormones, which other scientists argue may have affected them in ways the study didn't adequately take into account. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I see yet another problem with the basic angle of the studies to date. All of the studies I've seen have been framed as investigating the prevalence of ASDs in gender dysphoric people. That may well be confusing the issue. What I personally think they should have been investigating the prevalence of gender dysphoria in people with ASDs. That may sound like six of one, a half-dozen of the other, but as many of us in the spectrum community (and almost any clinical researcher) might understand, there is a distinction.

A significant number of people on the spectrum, higher than the neurotypical population, identify as being something other than heterosexual and/or cisgender. You'll find a disproportionate number of gay, bi, trans, pansexual, asexual and other sexual minorities right here on AC. So the real question that needs exploring is about why people with ASDs tend toward "variant" sex/gender identities. Examining possible links between one sex/gender variation and ASDs ignores too much else to be truly reliable science when there's obviously something bigger going on.

Thanks SO much for clearing that up. I was completely unaware of the problems with those studies.

I do understand what you mean with the differences between ASDs-vs-dysphoria in research. I'll have to go back and find the studies again and read through them.

 

[Judge]

I don't really know if I have Asperger's/Autism or not. A while ago I had taken a quiz just out of curiosity and scored highly, but I figured it was because I'm introverted.

I thought that for my entire life. Now I know better.

Yes, I'm an introvert. But I'm also on the spectrum of autism. I don't embrace it, but I do accept it.

Welcome to AC. Hope you find the answers you're looking for.

 

[Slithytoves]

Thanks SO much for clearing that up. I was completely unaware of the problems with those studies.

I do understand what you mean with the differences between ASDs-vs-dysphoria in research. I'll have to go back and find the studies again and read through them.

Honestly, I'm not sure it's worth bothering with. It's not really relevant to your quest to discover whether or not you have an ASD, and it can't truly help in answering why, if you do. You already know you're transgendered. ASD would better be explored as its own, entirely separate issue. Reading scientific studies isn't what's going to answer your essential question about that, anyway. Reading resources about ASDs written for lay consumption to see how strongly you identify is more useful, at this stage. AC has a terrific resources section to get you started. (I'd personally recommend titles by Tony Attwood.)

Judge's post caused me to revisit your comment about dismissing your score on a test because you thought you're just introverted. There's a difference between garden-variety introversion and autism, obviously. A very introverted neurotypical might score in the mid-range on an Aspie test, but if you scored into the "Yeah, we're pretty sure you have it" zone, you should take serious notice. I'm wondering if you're not thinking too hard about this. It might be easier on you to just take in information about ASDs and see what rings true rather than trying to test it with or against other factors. No "buts", and no looking for correlations or comorbidity. Figuring out the basic likelihood can be complicated enough.

You mentioned confusion about your twin not appearing to have the same difficulties you do. People can carry genes associated with ASD that aren't expressed. Our collective knowledge hasn't yet reached the point where this can be explained, so there's really no telling why it might be. It could be possible that even a monozygotic twin could have an ASD while their counterpart doesn't. We just don't know.

 

[kokonuss]

Honestly, I'm not sure it's worth bothering with. It's not really relevant to your quest to discover whether or not you have an ASD, and it can't truly help in answering why, if you do. You already know you're transgendered. ASD would better be explored as its own, entirely separate issue. Reading scientific studies isn't what's going to answer your essential question about that, anyway. Reading resources about ASDs written for lay consumption to see how strongly you identify is more useful, at this stage. AC has a terrific resources section to get you started. (I'd personally recommend titles by Tony Attwood.)

Judge's post caused me to revisit your comment about dismissing your score on a test because you thought you're just introverted. There's a difference between garden-variety introversion and autism, obviously. A very introverted neurotypical might score in the mid-range on an Aspie test, but if you scored into the "Yeah, we're pretty sure you have it" zone, you should take serious notice. I'm wondering if you're not thinking too hard about this. It might be easier on you to just take in information about ASDs and see what rings true rather than trying to test it with or against other factors. No "buts", and no looking for correlations or comorbidity. Figuring out the basic likelihood can be complicated enough.

You mentioned confusion about your twin not appearing to have the same difficulties you do. People can carry genes associated with ASD that aren't expressed. Our collective knowledge hasn't yet reached the point where this can be explained, so there's really no telling why it might be. It could be possible that even a monozygotic twin could have an ASD while their counterpart doesn't. We just don't know.

I really appreciate your input on the whole gender thing, and your comments overall. I'm the kind of person who likes to have reasons, but now that I've really thought about it and considering what you've said, gender probably isn't what I should be looking for.

When I first took the test a while ago, I really didn't think anything of it, since I assumed that the test probably messed up or it was just my personality (even though the test was on a pretty reliable website -- i have no clue what it was though). But each time I've taken it, including the first time, I've always scored reasonably high -- well into the "we're pretty sure" range.

I really don't doubt that I'm thinking too hard about this; I tend to over-analyze things. Like I said, I like to have reasons and explanations, but I guess I might be going the wrong way about it.

 

[Slithytoves]

I really don't doubt that I'm thinking too hard about this; I tend to over-analyze things. Like I said, I like to have reasons and explanations, but I guess I might be going the wrong way about it.

Everybody has their own process, and you've certainly found a community where people can relate to over-analyzing. If I sound prescriptive, I apologize. It's only because I know very well what it feels like to be figuring out if you have an ASD. Less than five months ago it wasn't even on my radar. Two friends suggested I might have Asperger's in early January, and now I'm diagnosed. The interim between possibility and surety was pretty intense. I had a hard time focusing only on that one issue because I had a pre-existing mental health diagnosis I felt tempted to factor into the exercise, though ultimately it wasn't particularly helpful. Once I had my diagnosis, I went back and evaluated a bit more of how everything I live with may be connected. I personally found it much easier to do it that way. Hindsight tends to be clearer. I should say that you don't actually need a formal diagnosis to do this, either. There are people on these forums who are satisfied that they are Aspies just by their own research, and I think that's perfectly valid. You reach a point where you know if it fits. The "A-ha" moment is often unmistakable and doesn't necessarily require validation by a doctor.

The good news on the "reasons and explanations" front is that if you find out you do have an ASD, it will answer so many questions; probably many more than you realize. I can't even put into words how much more at peace I am with myself for having a term that explains the dozens of traits I've been mystified by for more than forty years.

No doubt you've already been through a major discovery process with your gender. I hope this one goes well and you get the answers you need.

 

[Datura]

Welcome Kokonuss.

Like yourself I am also trans (albeit the other way around) and questioning if I am on the autism spectrum.

I have come out to a couple of my close friends about my suspicions and they all think I'm a bit deluded. When I bring up the fact that I was extremely socially inept as a child and teen they respond by saying this was a result of being socialized as the wrong gender. Perhaps there is some truth to this. To what extent do gender issues halt regular social development? I don't have the answer, but would not be surprised if this effect were profound in some individuals.

Anecdotally though, I can attest to witnessing a higher incidence of autism among the trans community than among the general population.

 

[Suzanne]

feeling like a hypochondriac

Oh don't go there!!!! When I visited the dr just the other day, she was concerned about my high blood pressure and asked if I suffered anxiety a lot and then, had a quizzical look of: why? So I stupidly blurted out that I have aspergers and wish I had not, for she went on and on and on and with my husband in the room too and adding to: oh she is convinced she has it etc etc, I honestly felt like a little girl being dismissed! I felt I was sinking and just wanted to get out of there.

I find it all so embarrassing, when ones veer away from the conversation. It is like: they are professional and if they don't stay on the subject, that makes us a fraud.

Well, we are not frauds!