Understanding AS ex-boyfriend

[Falcon]

Hello,

Thank you for this space, and for supporting those in relationships with AS individuals.

I am NT with anxiety traits. I have an AS father and brother, both of whom were recently diagnosed. My question is about my ex. He is undiagnosed (we never talked about AS, although he often told me that he has "two sides" to him) and in mannerisms extremely similar to my brother and father.

I am still grieving the end of our 1.5 year relationship. My way of coping is to understand why he couldn't tell me what he needed. I tried everything: giving him space, being cheerful, anticipating his needs, and asking him what he needed. He was a closed book. He said he couldn't identify his emotions or tell me. He broke up with me by email and I responded kindly by email as well, to let him know that I was still open to a relationship but I didn't wish to control him. We haven't been in contact for a fortnight.

He included this paragraph in his email and didn't explain further:

"How long can you be expected to continue to pour your energy and hopes and dreams into someone who lacks the capacity to reciprocate? Who can't react in kind- if at all- to your happiness or smile or attempts to share your innermost self- your deepest fears, your most treasured hopes, the secrets of your soul? Who can't understand or share even your most basic, simple feelings, EVER? Who only reacts with logic, never with his heart? How can you ever share "love" with someone whose preoccupation with trains or space movies or sports or financial matters means more to them than you or your children ever will? Is it fair to expect that a cornerstone of your experience with your partner should have to be an ongoing inner dialogue with yourself, reminding yourself not to feel insulted, rejected, controlled, ignored, used or attacked- because he is somehow excused from intending to cause these very real emotions within you, by his "disability"?"

Please, can I have perspectives from AS individuals here to clarify what he is telling me? I never tried to change him and I accepted him as he is.

 

[LucyPurrs]

I'm not an aspie but I'm not sure how much more clear he could be in his email which says it all.

 

[Falcon]

I'm not an aspie but I'm not sure how much more clear he could be in his email which says it all.

@LucyPurrs thanks for your reply. Why doesn't he want me in his life?

 

[AloneNotLonely]

It's surprising to me that this isn't clear to you. His message requires very little if no insight into AS to understand, because it actually shows a lot of emotion.

As much as I can assume, depending on how things went between you I see 2 clear possible interpretations.

The most likely case, simply taking everything at face value would imply that you did not complain about him not sharing feelings, showing emotion or lack of communication. This would be extremely odd for an NT woman (Pretty much all of them do this) but it makes sense considering you have AS in your family, and you being 100% NT would be unlikely.

The last sentence is a bit odd, I thought he was undiagnosed? How would be know about this "disability"? Did you tell/ask him about AS, or did he simply come up with "unable to show emotions" as a "disability"? Both cases are rather odd. If you mentioned it to him, it seems as if he immediately assumed it to be true (very odd... usually the first response should be "There is nothing wrong with me").

So yea... the most important thing is to ask yourself (and be honest about it) whether you pestered him about not sharing emotions and the like. Or the "Why won't you talk to me?" thing. From what he said it fits 99%, but your actions would be extremely odd, albeit still possible. In this case he is just being insecure and very aware of his "shortcomings" and it should be pretty easy to get him back. But it's very odd for him to be this insecure... if you never talked to him about stuff you didn't like. He would be like Captain Introspection, where a freak accident involving mutant philosophers turned him into a superhuman introspection machine. With a fascination for trains and space movies.

The other possibility is a bit negative, and it just does not fit with the message. The message screams AS, but the other possibility would mean there's something being said between the lines, which is not in line with the rest of his message. It would require manipulation skills that any politician would give his firstborn child for.

 

[LucyPurrs]

He seems to be saying he doesn't feel he can meet your needs for love and will never be able to, and that it is unfair to you to be in a relationship in which he can't give back to you now or ever. So he's not saying there's anything wrong with you, rather that he feels he can't reciprocate what you give him. That's how I've interpreted it.

 

[Lichi]

Falcon could I ask you if you suggested the idea of him being an Aspie before you broke up?

A lot of the sentences up there are text book examples of what Asperger’s can be. It seems as if he has read about it recently when he wrote it.

Sometimes we have to accept that the other person doesn’t want to share the reason with us. Not only aspies, also NT. So try to just understand that he doesn’t want to share the reason with you and he has the full right to do so. You can’t let the energy linger and wonder “why?”

My NT ex broke up with me. All he had to say was “I don’t want to be with you” and that was enough for me to end the relationship. The question of why things ended like that and why I didn’t Put any more effort when he said that came up later in my own mind. I had many questions that came to my mind later and I realized I had lost my place to ask them. I would sit and wonder and make up my own answers, or ask friends and no answer was correct, and every answer hurt. One day while drunk I asked him if he would answer those questions and he told me he wouldn’t, because those questions and answers won’t change the outcome.

 

[Judge]

Falcon could I ask you if you suggested the idea of him being an Aspie before you broke up?

A lot of the sentences up there are text book examples of what Asperger’s can be. It seems as if he has read about it recently when he wrote it.

Sometimes we have to accept that the other person doesn’t want to share the reason with us. Not only aspies, also NT. So try to just understand that he doesn’t want to share the reason with you and he has the full right to do so. You can’t let the energy linger and wonder “why?”

My NT ex broke up with me. All he had to say was “I don’t want to be with you” and that was enough for me to end the relationship. The question of why things ended like that and why I didn’t Put any more effort when he said that came up later in my own mind. I had many questions that came to my mind later and I realized I had lost my place to ask them. I would sit and wonder and make up my own answers, or ask friends and no answer was correct, and every answer hurt. One day while drunk I asked him if he would answer those questions and he told me he wouldn’t, because those questions and answers won’t change the outcome.

This is also what I read in his response. Or more to the point, what he has chosen not to say. In as much as we can be quite direct- even blunt, for whatever reason he has not chosen to specify exactly why he chose to break up with her.

Perhaps in his own mind he's unable to cope with her being Neurotypical. Yet he hasn't specified, perhaps to spare her any sense of this being her fault as well. An act of kindness, if anything.

Though I agree, under such circumstances I wouldn't expect him to elaborate any further. That to him, the "neurological divide" may have been too much for him to deal with. For what it's worth, if this really is the reason then I could understand why he would choose not to go into such details. That perhaps he may feel that this is something only another person on the spectrum would fully understand.

In essence, this is all about his issues of incompatibility and not hers. That it is he who cannot or will not attempt to understand her.

 

[Falcon]

Thank you for your responses. I have been very depressed and sleeping a lot, as I think over the last 1.5 years.

The most likely case, simply taking everything at face value would imply that you did not complain about him not sharing feelings, showing emotion or lack of communication. This would be extremely odd for an NT woman (Pretty much all of them do this) but it makes sense considering you have AS in your family, and you being 100% NT would be unlikely.

I did complain to him about not sharing feelings and a lack of communication. It didn't happen often, but it did happen. You are right that I am unlikely to be 100% NT, because there were three occasions I withdrew (shutdown?) in response to his inability to resolve or respond to my questions. He said, a month before we stopped communicating, that I "don't deserve" him.

The last sentence is a bit odd, I thought he was undiagnosed? ... If you mentioned it to him, it seems as if he immediately assumed it to be true (very odd... usually the first response should be "There is nothing wrong with me"). ... So yea... the most important thing is to ask yourself (and be honest about it) whether you pestered him about not sharing emotions and the like. Or the "Why won't you talk to me?" thing.

To my knowledge, he is undiagnosed. He did share with me a childhood incident where he was away at camp for a week, and his mother thought it odd that he never contacted her during that time. She, too, wondered if he missed her at all. He shared this memory with me when I wondered aloud at his pattern of communication with me.

He seems to be saying he doesn't feel he can meet your needs for love and will never be able to, and that it is unfair to you to be in a relationship in which he can't give back to you now or ever. So he's not saying there's anything wrong with you, rather that he feels he can't reciprocate what you give him. That's how I've interpreted it.

This makes sense, although to accept it makes me quite depressed.

Falcon could I ask you if you suggested the idea of him being an Aspie before you broke up? ... Sometimes we have to accept that the other person doesn’t want to share the reason with us. Not only aspies, also NT. So try to just understand that he doesn’t want to share the reason with you and he has the full right to do so. You can’t let the energy linger and wonder “why?” ... I had many questions that came to my mind later and I realized I had lost my place to ask them. I would sit and wonder and make up my own answers, or ask friends and no answer was correct, and every answer hurt. One day while drunk I asked him if he would answer those questions and he told me he wouldn’t, because those questions and answers won’t change the outcome.

No, it never occurred to me that AS was a possible explanation. I simply never realised that the similarity to my brother and father was more than just personality similarities. I travelled overseas to visit both of them in the last fortnight and it was so triggering. I never asked questions because, in a way, I know that my ex would interpret questions to be manipulative of his decision.

Perhaps in his own mind he's unable to cope with her being Neurotypical. Yet he hasn't specified, perhaps to spare her any sense of this being her fault as well. An act of kindness, if anything.

Though I agree, under such circumstances I wouldn't expect him to elaborate any further. That to him, the "neurological divide" may have been too much for him to deal with. For what it's worth, if this really is the reason then I could understand why he would choose not to go into such details. That perhaps he may feel that this is something only another person on the spectrum would fully understand.

In essence, this is all about his issues of incompatibility and not hers. That it is he who cannot or will not attempt to understand her.

This is very insightful and helpful, @Judge although I have read many of your posts to know he doesn't have years of experience and introspection as you do. Nonetheless, this fits. I don't expect anyone here to be able to read his mind, although I know that the AS cognitive style is better placed to intuit his intentions.

With kindness, I hate this "neurological divide" and how AS/AS and NT/AS relationships are so stricken by it, despite the best efforts of everyone involved.

I still welcome posts on this thread. I am grieving and it it comforting to read your replies. My NTish emotional bond is however very strong, so I am unable to compartmentalise my sadness effectively at all. If I don't reply in a timely way, I am probably sleeping or ruminating. But I will reply.

 

[AloneNotLonely]

Have you made any effort to reconnect or get together with him?

Or are you just letting it go?

 

[Falcon]

Have you made any effort to reconnect or get together with him?

Or are you just letting it go?

I replied by email to say that I cannot be friends with him, because I have feelings for him that he cannot reciprocate.

His latest email response was to say: he thinks that he is letting go of something he shouldn't, but he doesn't see a solution, and yet he really wants to hear an update about my life since the breakup.

Since I don't know how to reply, I haven't responded.

Should I let it go?

 

[AloneNotLonely]

The last person that can tell you what you "should" do is some random stranger on the internet.

I do not know the man. He could be the best guy you'll ever meet, or he could turn out to be a manipulative monster.

Personally, I am repulsed by his weakness and cowardice. If I was a women I doubt he'd be any less repulsive to me. But if you like the guy, and you see values and good important traits in him that make him worth hanging on to, then why not? The problem is you are already overly emotionally invested. It's this sort of stuff that makes me say to think twice about it. I don't know exactly what is going on in your head. How well do you know him? Are you just smitten for stupid reasons? Is he truly a diamond in the rough? Out of experience I know that people get smitten with those that are the absolute worst possible choice. It's nature's sense of humour I guess. Unfortunately most don't know to look at the actual character of a person, and to judge it without any pink glasses and butterflies so they can make a good decision based on reality rather than a dream (which can turn into a nightmare rather quickly).

So that's the tl;dr conundrum. After his first message my response wouldn't be something like "Ok" but more like "Stop being a sensitive man larper that's making my decisions for me, if you don't want me or you are tired of my whining then be honest instead of a coward and just tell it straight. If you don't want to break up then don't do so to spare my fragile little feminine emotions. By the way, the trains, space movies and financial matters are a-ok. But please. Drop the sports obsession. That's such a basic bro thing and it doesn't suit you."

Still I have a bit of a hunch that he's Machiavelli himself and that this is just a giant test. But probably I'm reading between the lines looking at a hidden meaning that's not there because my brain has a thing for overcomplicating extremely simple things.

Either way, I'd call him out on his bad behavior and you should just be honest with him if you truly like the way he acts. The "calling him out" part might make him retreat in which case it's Game Over, but I don't care so I have the boldness to go with it. If you really care that much then you might want to be sweet sugar cinnamon princess in order to avoid the risk of alienating him.

 

[Falcon]

Personally, I am repulsed by his weakness and cowardice. If I was a women I doubt he'd be any less repulsive to me. But if you like the guy, and you see values and good important traits in him that make him worth hanging on to, then why not? The problem is you are already overly emotionally invested.

I am invested, however as time passes I feel quite turned off by his pattern of communication. You are correct, it is weak and cowardly. I can understand that he doesn't want my input into his decision to break up, based on his personal logic. I cannot understand or accept how selfish he is.

Really, I think he has lost romantic interest in me but would like to keep me as a friend. I am going to work really hard at letting go of him. This breakup process has made me quite averse to friendship with him.

Thank you for your forthright opinion.

 

[AloneNotLonely]

Ok now I feel kinda bad.

But if you are certain that that's what you want...

I just don't want you to take my extremely autistic narrow view of people as the truth. Maybe he's not weak and cowardly, but I'm just such an asshole that I feel repulsed anyway.

You could just ask anyway. If you don't really care that much anymore, and are kind of turned off, then you can find out a lot just by hammering him with extremely blunt questions.

 

[Tom]

If he trully believes the things he said in his letter, then I think he made the right decision. I don't see how it was weak or cowardly at all. I kinda see the opposite. He was forthrightly blunt.

Would you have really been happy if you or a child were less inportant then his trains or space movies? I think not.

But you have no duty to be his friend now. Keeping in touch is sometimes just a way to make the pain of separating go on indefinately.

 

[Falcon]

I just don't want you to take my extremely autistic narrow view of people as the truth. Maybe he's not weak and cowardly, but I'm just such an asshole that I feel repulsed anyway.

I don't think that you are being an asshole at all! Whether by AS/NT standards of communication, we are not compatible. That he knows he is letting go of my love and caring for him (his words) indicates that he appreciates me, but not enough to be with me romantically.

If he trully believes the things he said in his letter, then I think he made the right decision. I don't see how it was weak or cowardly at all. I kinda see the opposite. He was forthrightly blunt.

Yes. If he believes that he cannot offer me what I need, his decision is fair. What is not fair is asking me to stay in contact with him when I have made it clear that I don't want to, if we are no longer in a relationship.

His latest email included many romantic terms of affection and endearment, even as he reiterated his decision to breakup. That is not okay! It feels like he is manipulating my feelings for him to get what he wants - a "friendship" - even though he knows it isn't what I want.

He can go kick rocks.

 

[AloneNotLonely]

Yeap. Now you are thinking like me.

It's contagious

 

[Falcon]

Yeap. Now you are thinking like me.

It's contagious

It is good contagion.

Your approach is not wrong. Whatever a person is thinking or intending, we can only see their actions. While in a relationship with him, I was able to ask him about his thoughts and intentions. Now that he has ended the relationship, it is not my place to ask unless he initiates.

I can't initiate for him, or read his mind. The breakup stands because he made the decision, and I accept it as what he wants.

I can't make him want me.

 

[MrSpock]

The last person that can tell you what you "should" do is some random stranger on the internet.

Agreed.

I cannot know for sure what is going on in his head, and I'm often bad at reading such cases, however I have one obvious interpretation of this (obvious to me, much more so than any other interpretation) which I feel I should share.

He does want you. He has the impression that he cannot provide what you want, and rather than maintain a relationship with a person who has demanded what he feels he cannot provide he has taken it upon himself to allow you to pursue someone who can provide those things rather than selfishly hang on to someone he wants to be with when that hanging on would be harmful to the person he loves. You.

I strongly suspect that you can work around your problem, which is ultimately one of communication.

The last person that can tell you what you "should" do is some random stranger on the internet.

Agreed. Maybe you're better off apart, that does have to be your decision, however I get the impression that you both have regrets and you seek to make an informed decision. I offer the following ideas only because maybe you've not thought of them and it may provide a perspective from which you would consider actions you would not have otherwise. I hope to increase your options. I've put myself in his shoes, and might have written the same things once upon a time.

I did complain to him about not sharing feelings and a lack of communication. It didn't happen often, but it did happen. You are right that I am unlikely to be 100% NT, because there were three occasions I withdrew (shutdown?) in response to his inability to resolve or respond to my questions.

Although it didn't happen often this can be a devastating problem in a relationship. His HFA can definitely get in the way of this, even if he does have all of the 'proper' emotions in their place. It's possible that he can communicate what you want to know to you quite well (so far as I know, this has happened to me) but you are not asking him the 'right' questions. We are not always equipped to interpret questions in the way that NTs are, and I have had a love interest ask me questions repeatedly and I have made the mistake of answering the questions as she asked them. Her intent was not to have me answer what she asked, but rather to interpret the questions to mean something different, and then answer THAT question. There is one question which she asked repeatedly and which I suspect is key... "What do you want from me?". I won't tell what I suspect she really meant, but after putting together clues she's unintentionally given since and months of thought experiments I believe I've figured out what she really meant. It was much, much more specific, and it had to do with her perception that I was in some way uninterested in her. I was very interested, but had failed to pick up on, and therefore failed to respond appropriately to her hints. She was hinting that I should tell her why I was not responding to something I was unaware of, and I didn't have a chance of answering 'correctly' although I responded honestly and openly to the question as posed each time.

I wonder if he has actively refused to answer questions which you've posed and he understands them and understands how to answer them. Perhaps you need to ask him different questions to get him to share his feelings. Perhaps you could work on your communication, both of you together. Do not worry about whose fault miscommunication is, the fact is that you both have different styles, and any effective communication is a cooperative venture which takes into account the styles of all participants.

Remember that he likely has a history of being misunderstood and of failing to communicate well in this area, possibly in spite of being able to communicate exceptionally well regarding academic subjects. Even when you're able to communicate well as a couple he will be inexperienced at this sort of sharing, so kid gloves may be appropriate even if he's fully emotionally mature. He may be easily shocked. You'll need to be patient. He'll also have to be willing to work at it of course.

I get the impression that he is willing to work at it, he either does not think it possible or thinks it unfair on you to suffer for his ineptitude while he struggles to learn what others learned at a much earlier age. If you're going to get him back and make it work stranger on the internet says you should tell him that you think that you can work through the communication problem, you're willing to take the chance that you'll get hurt for the possible reward of a lifetime with him. (Of course you should only tell him this stuff if it's true!) Tell him that it's natural for you to rely on non-verbal means of communication and hints and that this has caused problems, tell him that you want to spend hours talking to him about communication and each learning to communicate with the other, using words to mean what they mean in the dictionary.

I don't think that he's trying to be manipulative, but I could be wrong and don't know much about manipulation. I guess that he's used to failing at communication and has learned to blame himself and has left to protect you. He's hoping that you will ask for him back, if you acknowledge his faults/differences and are willing to accept him in spite of them he can perhaps resume the relationship without the guilt he feels for having tricked you into a relationship he's unable to maintain satisfactorily.

Imagine you've applied for a job that you think you can do well. When you actually start the job you find out that it sometimes requires skills you don't have and that would take months to acquire. It's a fairly well-paying job. You might feel that you're lucky to have the job and keep it if you can get away with it. It seems to me that if you care about the business as much as you care about yourself you'll feel guilty and either ask for a different position or quit. "Oh, I'm sorry, I've realized that I can't do this." Perhaps "I really wish I could do this, it's been very nice to be here." What might happen if the boss says "That's really not a problem, we'll pay you to take the necessary courses."? But that's an inadequate analogy. You'be be lucky to have a boss like that. For an HFA type to have an NT willing to work on those courses with him is to be much, much luckier, at least that's the impression I get. To even get the other person to conceive of such a course as being necessary isn't easy in my experience. It is sometimes very lucky when a problem of miscommunication is actually identified as such.

I've maybe babbled enough. Food for thought I hope. If you've any questions I'm quite willing to babble some more.

 

[Falcon]

Thank you for your thorough reply, @MrSpock, I read and thought about its many points with care.

I will respond to this point:

He's hoping that you will ask for him back, if you acknowledge his faults/differences and are willing to accept him in spite of them he can perhaps resume the relationship without the guilt he feels for having tricked you into a relationship he's unable to maintain satisfactorily.

Relationships require commitment and faith. A single act can redefine it entirely, as can the accumulation of tiny, neglectful acts. The carelessness he has shown towards my commitment is more significant than any intention that he may have. If he can lose faith in himself with me now, he can do so again in future.

He knows that I love him. Despite the motivation behind his action, he has broken my trust in him. This is not something that can be easily repaired, if at all.

I don't want him in my life in any way. He has hurt me deeply. Whatever hurt he sustains is self-inflicted. I did not deserve the way he ended us, nor can I overlook it.

I've maybe babbled enough. Food for thought I hope. If you've any questions I'm quite willing to babble some more.

You are kind, to consider his position based on your own experience. I do appreciate it.