Trouble

[LillBeanSprout]

So... I've been living with my SO for about 10 years now. We are in a bit of a difficult situation and have quite some stories to tell. But my main issue now is this: he tries hard to teach me about people and social skills, which I have very few, and he sees no change in me. He says I am intelligent but at the same time retarded and people take advantage over me. Other than that, he says I can't survive on my own. He also states I can't be or rather I'm not happy with him because he is always pointing out my flaws which makes me distressed and anxious, but he is honest about that because he sees no other way to teach me. When we start a conversation it's like he has a red pencil ready to correct what I say and how I think. This makes me sad. Sometimes he takes me to the mirror to see my face and point out how miserable I look. I don't know how to deal with this. Could use some advice.
Thank you for taking the time to read this...

 

[Judge]

You haven't provided any background information about you. Only your relationship. Though you make your longtime significant other sound a bit more like a keeper and controlling personality than a "wingman". Not good.

If we are to assume you are on the spectrum of autism and he is not, he needs to understand that there are traits and behaviors that you may have some control over, and others where you may have no control over at all. That it's neurological- not psychological. This is not about attitude or willpower.

To take stock of all your perceived autistic traits and behaviors and determine those you want to change, those you can change, and those you simply have no control over. And not to be treated like Eliza Doolittle from "My Fair Lady". That your SO has to come to terms with taking you as you are- not who he may want to transform you into. That is never going to happen.

And if he cannot handle these truths, then you should probably begin to develop a plan on living on your own. Sounds like a tough prospect for you, but it may be inevitable.

 

[ovpt]

sorry to hear about your situation. it is nice to try to teach but sounds like it has become overbearing and with unreasonable expectations. there is a difference between a honest conversation on social skills and continued put downs like "retarded" i would suggest counseling with someone who specializes in high functioning autism to help him understand you better and you will not change your core being. of course we can all improve and learn but name calling does not help. he has to accept you as you are first and then you guys can work together for mutual improvements. that means he needs to adjust just as much if not more than you because he has more neuro adaptability.

 

[ovpt]

also with him telling you that you can not survive on your own sounds very controlling and manipulative. i do not know your full story but this is a disturbing to me

 

[LillBeanSprout]

Thank you for your reply - trully
What can I say about me? I'm 40ish, have a job that provided me skills to deal with people professionally (which was good and it works), but I was never able to extend those skills to my personal life. I mean, my social life, which I don't have.
I don't keep in touch with my abusive family. They're like poison for me. Older sister who doesn't even text "merry Christmas", father that never calls (not even after a surgery I had to go through) and mom who is manipulative, to say the least.
My SO was and is my best friend. He is though with everyone he cares about, very crude and clear. Although I do feel he's being somewhat abusive, which tears me apart, I also know he's not trying to hurt me. He's trying to harden me. I just can't seem to find a way to make him understand I'm not dumb, but there are things I really don't understand.

 

[Judge]

Thank you for your reply - trully
What can I say about me? I'm 40ish, have a job that provided me skills to deal with people professionally (which was good and it works), but I was never able to extend those skills to my personal life.

That's critical, IMO. It means you have the capability of separating yourself from this guy if you really felt compelled to. Of course it also makes me more suspicious of him treating you the way he does if you've proven yourself to be self-sufficient in the most basic but critical ways.Sounds like he owes you much more credit than he's giving to you.

Indeed, though we may be good at our job, it doesn't necessarily translate into interpersonal skills. Where autism may impact our relationships at home.

 

[LillBeanSprout]

ovpt, thank you for your words!
He says I can rewire my brain and that neuroplasticity is a human ability, so I need to push myself. Also shared the recent studies and reports with me.
Words like retard do hurt but he says the difference between him and others is that others say it behind my back. He uses that word to make me aware and to get my atention. Painfully yes. And it's the pain that's making me feel small.

 

[Judge]

ovpt, thank you for your words!
He says I can rewire my brain and that neuroplasticity is a human ability, so I need to push myself.

Clearly this is someone who doesn't fundamentally understand the nature of autism or simply doesn't want to. I'm afraid "trouble" describes him quite well. Best friend or not. He needs to understand that you cannot be "molded" into being Neurotypical. No methodology can do that, no matter how much he- or you want it.

In all honesty and my Aspie bluntness, I wouldn't walk away from someone so potentially toxic. I'd run. He isn't Henry Higgins, and you are neither Eliza Doolittle or Pavlov's Dog.

To be on the spectrum means having any number of autistic traits and behaviors and at different amplitudes. And that any number of them can be "hard-wired" in your brain that no amount of positive-thinking can overcome. Where one needs to take some solace in the serenity prayer, which isn't only for alcoholics:

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference."

 

[ovpt]

ugh

yes, neuroplasticity, is a great thing but it does not apply to the fundamental neurological structure. we are very adaptable but within the framework we have. we are not going to fundamentally change to be like everyone else. we can adapt, cope, and pretend: but we are not going to make significant new neuro pathways to make it fluid, natural, and to change into NT. that is as an absurd thought process as if a person with CP can change their neurological structure through plasticity and become "normal".

the main challenge with being high functioning is that people thing with a little help, change, etc: we will become NT. and then when we do not, the guilt and shame ensues.

 

[ovpt]

to be blunt, run away and do not look back. no one should be name called and guitled into attempted fundamental change.

 

[LillBeanSprout]

Judge, wise words (last paragraph). One good thing about the lack of skills for some things is the "super power" to have others. I have a place in my hard drive in which this will be stored and never corrupted nor deleted.
I totally agree: nobody deserves to go through this treatment. It leaves me exhausted, drained, trying to reason with him and explaining how my mind works. Over and over and over...
Nonetheless we have had good and bad times. This is a bad one. Maybe, I repeat, maybe we'll get over this. All these years have to mean something. Yes, he's being toxic and my self preservation mode is on. Yet I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Maybe things can change. The ones than can change.

ovpt: walk like a duck and quack like a duck? I'll never be a duck I don't envy ducks: from where I stand, I can tell most of them are not as happy as they so desperately try to make believe, so... Not being part of something one perceives as fake: I don't feel it's such a bad thing. My psychotherapist is trying to demonstrate me humans can maintain truthful and honest friendships, but so far she's hasn't been very successful. We always end up finding an ulterior motif in the examples brought up to the table. I think she needs to try harder...

 

[xudo]

to be blunt, run away and do not look back. no one should be name called and guitled into attempted fundamental change.

I agree with @ovpt. Although I realise this probably isn't the best advice, and more than likely not as easy as just upping and leaving, but my first reaction when reading your original post was to tell you to kick him to the kerb.

Nobody should ever be saying you're 'retarded' in any sense, or be trying to change you or making you anxious and distressed by something they do. (EDIT: Especially someone who cares for you.)

 

[Judge]

If the man truly cares for you and wants to be in your orbit with the best of intentions, it is he who must adapt more than yourself. Not to miraculously transform into an autistic person, but to simply learn to be your "wingman" as an NT and not your keeper.

We do have a few couples of NTs and Aspies who have figured it out and have successful relationships. It's not something easy to manage, but it can be done. Though not when one person insists the other changes exclusively to their way of thinking only because in their mind it's the only way of thinking.

To acknowledge that many of our thought processes are not a simplistic or capricious matter of choice or attitude.

 

[RiverSong]

Hey LillBeanSprout, I feel for you. You sound like a lovely person. I agree with what's the others have said. Your SO's treatment doesn't sound healthy for you. Instead, he should accept you for who you are, the way you are. He shouldn't try to change you or belittle you or call you retarded. And he shouldn't abuse you mentally/emotionally or otherwise.

Have you told him your thoughts about the way he treats you? Maybe try explaining that your autism isn't something that can be changed. Ever. And he needs to accept that as a fact. Maybe give him some information to read, if he hasn't already, to learn more about autism. And let him know that you don't want or appreciate his negativity and criticism. You are strong and don't deserve someone who puts you down and calls you incapable.

 

[Persephone_]

NT here ..... I date a guy with Aspergers.... I been through some harsh times, and people here gave me precious advice.

My 2 cents ..... NO ONE DESERVES TO BE CALLED RETARDED. This is too rough .... and you really don't behave as someone that has no capability to take care of your self.

I dated a NT guy on past that loves to see me fragile. People can disguise their ways and really hurt us with "good intentions"...

Did you told him in an open and very direct way that you are not retarded, and you don't want and accept to be called retarded. You have your work, your life, your plans... you just see the world through a different perspective.

and having you in front of a mirror showing how miserable you are looking, sounds very cruel to me. I'm not sure he is a good person.... I'm sorry to be so direct. I would never, ever do that to my bf... I already feel very disturbed when I create confusion when we have misunderstoods ... I would never even think that he is not capable ......cause, he is ...... he just deals with things on a different way .... and honestly, I am not so different from him ...

 

[LillBeanSprout]

xudo: agreed, yet it's easier said than done. My first reaction was to duck and run, 'cause you know... it hurts. My biggest issues with feelings are related with anger. My psychotherapist says I don't have a language for that because I don't acknowledge that in my head, although my body does, and expresses it by making me sick; ergo, the anger feedback goes the wrong way (in instead of out)
My SO is not the only "thing" that makes me anxious, but I do have trouble dealing with this coming from the one that should be supporting me. Having that said, I don't relate with Stockholm syndrome ^^ (which I even pondered at a certain point).

Judge: he knew me before we got together, years back. Although it is not an excuse for his behavior, we are going through a phase (there are real serious external issues) that has been very consuming for him. And he really is concerned about what would happen to me if something happened to him. One thing for a fact, I wouldn't have the skills to deal and solve "the thing" like he is doing. But if I did, I wouldn't rub it on his face - that's a fact. On the other hand, there has to be something wrong in my brain because the proper thing for me, I think, should be to "kick him to the kerb" . Then again, I don´t know much about NT couples, but I'm pretty sure bad things happen and people don't just pick up their things and go. Plus, I don't have anywhere to go, even for a couple of days or so. So... "Giù la testa!"

Riversong (that sounds lovely): bullying is an ugly thing. Yes, we are both well-informed about this kind of disorders.
I had trouble detecting bullying at school, when I was a kid. I take people very literally, it's hard for me to understand if someone is messing around. What comes natural to NTs - reading body language and stuff - I might as well be blind, although I am super (yes I am) in my job, in which I have to deal with people. It's SO weird Sometimes I wish I could just do the same in my (nonexistent) social life, but I really must admit I don't feel the urge to go out with people (I'm ok around "good" people, I just don't miss them if they're not around). It would be cool to master the ability, though, just for the achievement

Persephone_: I like NTs Most usually seem to find me odd .
Retarded is an ugly word: it's AWFULL. I should hit him with a stick, right?
I have a "me", yes, but there is also "us" in me.
Always be direct: I like direct - even if cruel. I can understand direct. I have, I do and will keep explaining we are not the same.
It is the first time in 10 years I see him exhibiting this behavior. I only saw him scared once, and it was a matter of life and death, literally. His reaction was to get angry (harsh speech, loud voice, frown) and I saw the doctor shrink before my eyes. I'm figuring I'm somehow in the same place as the doctor: in his mind I should have the ability to perform something, regardless.

And hey, I'm not trying to make up excuses for him, please understand. I don't know if this makes any sense but, when I'm consumed and drained and he's torching my brain, I have the red light on and it's even hard for me to talk (as in articulate words). When the red light is off, I try to make sense of what's happening and elaborate a status report. I don't know if this sounds sick like I'm attached to this "bad" relationship. But it hasn't always been bad. Most of it has been quite the opposite.

 

[the_tortoise]

ovpt, thank you for your words!
He says I can rewire my brain and that neuroplasticity is a human ability, so I need to push myself. Also shared the recent studies and reports with me.
Words like retard do hurt but he says the difference between him and others is that others say it behind my back. He uses that word to make me aware and to get my atention. Painfully yes. And it's the pain that's making me feel small.

Neuroplasticity is a real thing, but he doesn't seem to understand how it works....it doesn't mean there are no limits and that if a person tries hard enough they can do whatever they want. It just means that we continue to learn and our brains continue to grow (and remove) neural pathways throughout life -- all of this happens within the limitations of each person's unique neurobiology. An autistic person cannot stop being autistic if they just try hard enough.

Calling someone the R-word for any reason is unkind and unecessary. There are far better (far more respectful and not-hurtful) ways he could be getting your attention and making you aware of how others see you or the mean things someone has said about you.

If the only difference between him and whoever he may have heard call you the r-word is that he says it to your face.....in my opinion, that's not something he deserves any praise for. He should be ashamed for putting you down, not proud that he does so to your face -- whether to your face or behind your back it's a bad thing.

It does not matter how lacking in any ability you may be, you do not deserve to be put down or called names because of it. Not ever.

 

[Larisa]

My biggest issues with feelings are related with anger. My psychotherapist says I don't have a language for that because I don't acknowledge that in my head, although my body does, and expresses it by making me sick; ergo, the anger feedback goes the wrong way (in instead of out)

I had real troubles with anger - to detect it within myself and in others.
I worked with a psychologist, pondered the idea of "natural agression" - and I reasized that the idea is that people can only be social if they are aggressive: I mean if they want something from other people. Normally it's a struggle for social status (to bully those who are considered 'inferior', to butter up whose who are considered 'superior' and to climb even 'higher').
I don't have interest in that, I have plenty other interests in the huge world. I feel regrets for spending my time on 'socializing' - because I get kicked all over like 'inferior' because I'm expected to behave just like this (to climb on the social ladder) and to abuse less active people.
I can't imagine more narrow-minded and pointless way of spending the time of my life...

About anger: I feel anger when I feel threatened by people, when I try to speak logically and I see that the person 'plays dumb' and starts to try offend me for me to do all the work (including theirs) on my own.
I see people around me being angry all the time (those 'normal social agression')
I mean: feelings like 'happy' and 'contented' imply that the person (who feels them) is RELAXED. I don't see relaxed people at all: they all are constantly tense, ready to start a fight or to argue over the slightest excuse ('to feel 'higher' in their own eyes).
I'm often blamed for my natural tendency to relaxation: "it's LAZINESS!" "It's a horrible CRIME against the society and its norms!!!"
I wonder whether the whole idea of 'social norms' is to keep people too busy for them not to notice the over-the-top level of their own personal misery?

One thing for a fact, I wouldn't have the skills to deal and solve "the thing" like he is doing.

Why do you have to solve anything 'like somebody's doing'? I'm pretty sure you can do everything - like youself.
I ended the contract with my landlady - and I was astonished by her accusation that I DIDN'T try to learn the way of living like she does it!
She had thought I would be looking at her as some 'ideal person' and put my efforts to mimick her 'wisdom ways'.
I live my life - and I sincerely don't care how other people live and manage theirs.
I can't find any reason at all: why an old lady's life experience (mostly from totally different conditions of the USSR) can present any value to me?
I can get she 'means well' but she is unaware that her tales are really useless for me (I considered them a lot).
Frankly, I pity her delusion and her lack of honest interest in the world, she spent her life in fights for 'social status' but it left her a bankrupt as her strengh and health naturally declined with advancing age...
She never had friends she would not competed with - she has nobody now who is really glad to see her. She has nothing interesting to say - but her 'wise advises'.
She has two sons and she pecks on their brains (as chilren stay in 'inferior' social status during all the parents' lives) - and they humbly suffer her.
Uh, I don't want such an ugly and 'acting' relationship with other people.
It's better to be alone in my opinion.

I have a "me", yes, but there is also "us" in me.

Who is 'us'? Can you point at this person?
I had abusive parents and my first (lasting 12 years) friendship - it took many years of work with psychologist to understand myself. I came to conclusion that thinking of 'us' is a sign of co-depending relationships.
I speak for myself here: I detected in the mixture of 'us' - my fear of the outward world, my hope to 'hide' in the other's shadow on public, my fear of the other's judgement, my disgust of this person for their smugness and lies and my pretending 'we look better together than I would look on my own - in the eyes of the others'.
It was a stage I had to go through in my life: I forgave a lot, I 'understood' a lot - till I realized that all along I put efforts to overcome my hurt and discomfort and the other person all this time has ENJOYED herself on my behalf.
I couldn't stayed in this relationships and I left.
But till you evaluate that your bonuses from your relationships makes up for your discomfort - go with it. It's your life and only you can decide how to live it to feel content and happy.
The society around us is not friendly, and even relationships with serious drawbacks can be supporting for some time - it's only your right to decide every time you doubt: if it is worth of continuing any further...

 

[Jusdifferent]

"When we start a conversation it's like he has a red pencil ready to correct what I say and how I think. This makes me sad. Sometimes he takes me to the mirror to see my face and point out how miserable I look. I don't know how to deal with this. Could use some advice."

*My mate tried that **** when we were first married, way back when... It led to a lot of fights, and a lot of drinking, and me getting, and staying stoned. ( Also, of me going elsewhere, where I was less criticized. ) Eventually, he figured out the correlation, and stopped. Now, I no longer "do" parties, gatherings, dinners... Like grumpy cat - I just say no, and to hell with who doesn't like it. The minute he even attempts to "re-educate/recondition" me, I give him a look that would freeze the bollocks off "Lucifer" himself. ( FYI : That was way back in the 80's. We have been married for thirty years, now. ) LITTLE KNOWN FACT : For better, or worse, by and large - you teach people how to treat you.

BTW : You don't have to put up with that crap, you know? There are plenty of aspie guys out there who would think you were just the bomb-diggity - exactly the way you are. Tell him that - the next time he starts his stupid NT BS. Plenty of fish in the sea, and some of them Aspien

 

[Jusdifferent]

"Not to miraculously transform into an autistic person, but to simply learn to be your "wingman" as an NT and not your keeper."

* Excellent point! My mate learned to evolve from critic to wingman; it works well for both of us.