'selling out'

[Nitro]

With AC/DC even the first 4 albums can't be trusted when using online streaming services.

I got to see Bon Scott era AC/DC months before he passed away

 

[Nitro]

• Nitro​

• Nov 16, 2019

"You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant" for 50 years now


Had a bug up my butt to see if Arlo was still alive, and sure enough, he was on the 50th anniversary of the movie tour.

His performance was spot on, but after 50 years, I suppose you get it right

 

[Mr. Stevens]

I never really understood the general argument about artists selling out, since it's such a fine line. They have to sell records. We could call a lot of things selling out which actually let us know about the bands in the first place.

The Grateful Dead wanted a hit for years and finally got one in the 80s. They let the producer add strings and horns to Terrapin Station, before that, hoping it would help. The only reason they started putting out live albums is because they were cheap to make and the studio albums didn't make money.

The Stones were urged by their manager, Andrew Loog Oldham to write their own material, or disappear. Is that selling out? They wrote originals to reach a wider audience and make more money. They've always adapted trends (psychedelia, "baroque pop," punk, disco) to their blues-style rock.

We could see them as being true to themselves in many ways, or selling out in many ways.

Did Miles Davis sell out by covering "Time After Time" by Cindy Lauper? Why should he not reach a new audience?

How about miming on TV?

Not to mention the creative pace bands had to have in the 60s to stay in fans' minds. The Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys, etc. all cranked music out, partly for that reason. It led to a lot of creativity, but is it selling out because they didn't make the audience come to them?

Or how about "Kokomo"? We can call it cheesy and a caricature of The Beach Boys' past. The song didn't even start with them. But, it's pretty amazing they had a huge hit 20 years after their last huge hit. Few artists do that. Some of their best music might be out of print now if they didn't find a bigger audience then.

I think fans often consider it selling out when an artist takes a new direction, but no one would be happy for an artist to keep cranking out the exact same thing. Younger people tend to consume more music, too, so I can't blame an artist for chasing that audience, if their fans grew up and stop buying records.

 

[Nitro]

I think fans often consider it selling out when an artist takes a new direction, but no one would be happy for an artist to keep cranking out the exact same thing. Younger people tend to consume more music, too, so I can't blame an artist for chasing that audience, if their fans grew up and stop buying records.

The band Boston was guilty of never altering their style.
After a while, it all starts to sound the same.

It always cracks me up when people say they don't like cover songs.
Every band that ever made it did covers to get established.

On the what song are you listening to now thread, I used to pride myself in posting cover tunes that sometimes were either very well done tributes to the originals, or even improved versions of them.

This tragedy song comes to mind:

or

 

[Fino]

It would be silly to be opposed to artists changing over time. That's what an artist is supposed to do. Whether it appeals to a wider audience or not doesn't matter to me. I just care if I like it still or not. But there are many artists and bands where I only listen to their earlier work, such Green Day.

 

[Outdated]

I never really understood the general argument about artists selling out, since it's such a fine line.

You make some very good points. In the case with AC/DC I can't fault their business accumen in any way shape or form. Bon Scott had just died which meant changes were going to happen anyway. And I have nothing but admiration for Brian Johnson, he had big shoes to fill and he did a superb job, he was an ideal replacement. He's a lovely bloke too.

For us it was their move to the US that broke everything. They went for a more polished sound more suitable for the US market, and no one can fault them for doing so, but in this process they lost any identity with Australian culture. We can't blame them for the decisions that they made but we were all very disappointed at the same time.

Although there's a lot of similarities between US and Aussie cultures, there's a lot of differences as well. Our music scene from the 70s to the 90s certainly demonstrates this, we had a dramatically different sound to the rest of the world. Some famous Aussie bands many people don't even realise were Australian, Little River Band for example.

For some samples of cultural differences check out:
Cold Chisel
Hoodoo Gurus
Midnight Oil
Men At Work
INXS
The Devinyls

 

[Outdated]

I just thought I should add this one as an example of cultural difference. An indigenous band made a song about land rights that became a huge hit back in the 90s, there were even several different dance mixes of the same song made, but this is the original:

 

[Levitator]

No Right Or Wrong Answers here as there's lots of interpretations

Do you get mad when a band you supported and grew up with changes their sound to cater to a wider audience and therefore make more money?

Its usually bands I liked as a kid that I have an emotional connection with. Modern bands I wouldn't care as I have no investment in them.

I don't condone any abuse of an artist but I'm the type to get upset.

It can be really subjective. There's a difference between being dishonest, or artificial, versus simply emphasizing stuff that's going to be better received. Also, sometimes bands just evolve or learn to do new stuff they prefer to be doing.

 

[NB79]

I maybe count with my hands the amount of 'mainstream' songs i like between 2005 and now.
Its not like there is less musical talent, i enjoy a lot some music from some games etc, and other songs i have found.

 

[thejuice]

I maybe count with my hands the amount of 'mainstream' songs i like between 2005 and now.
Its not like there is less musical talent, i enjoy a lot some music from some games etc, and other songs i have found.

I agree around that time (mid 2000s) things declined at least in pop and rock. By 2010 it had really jumped the shark. Age will have an impact on when you feel music went down the toilet..

Perhaps its computerisation I dont know (im sure they had computers in music before that but still). Perhaps its that record sales fell off a cliff and the industry became ultra conservative. Mastering practices in the Tens onwards became even more aggressive than the 2000s.

Its difficult to disentangle whats dishonest and whats genuine evolution. Some bands where my gut is screaming 'sell outs' are adamant in interviews that it is a genuine artistic decision.

Perhaps they are defensive to the point of self deception. Maybe the hunger is gone and they want a comfy life and have the kudos and trappings of being famous. Maybe they have envy of other bands in their 'scene' that made it and use it as a template for success. Or they got manipulated by the industry. Maybe they genuinely like music that makes me sick even though they used to make music that I loved. I dont know.

I have to be mindful of my black and white 'this is good music, that is bad music' mindset too. Not that 'all music is equally good' is legitimate in my opinion either.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

When bob Dylan changed his sound had no effect on me. The artist knows what they like. Who am I to dictate to them. Even When Led Zepplin changed there sound with albums I had no issue

 

[Mary Terry]

It does make me that much more respectful of two bands who never really changed their sound:

1) The Rolling Stones

2) The Grateful Dead

The Stones always managing to retain their gritty blues style. And the Dead, well...they were always an eclectic combination of rock, blues, jazz, bluegrass and country. Probably the key to their success. Weird, but they were unique given that they made it work!

One thing I do look forward to in leaving this plane of existence is hopefully that both Mick Jagger and Keith Richards will outlast me.

And consider that the Stones, Beatles, Elvis Presley and other commercially successful musicians just copied, purloined, and paid homage to the Mississippi Delta Blues, gospel and soul music, which originated from uneducated, impoverished, but greatly talented people who simply loved music and sang from their hearts.

 

[The Pandector]

@Ronald Zeeman finally named what I think was the most egregious accusation of selling out. Bob Dylan was accused of selling out when he showed up on stage with an electric guitar. IMO, Dylan paid his dues and could play the electric kazoo the rest of his life and retire a legend.

My own heart was broken when Steve Miller sold out in the early 70’s. I felt he was outside the mainstream until he went for mass appeal with the Joker and Take The Money And Run, which is what I think he did.

But I have forgiven Stevie Guitar Miller because he had a right to make money. Besides, he still put out plenty of good music afterwards. Ultimately, he published his Steve Miller #5 album, which proved that he can write and produce winning songs in any genre he chooses. (Years later, I saw a recording of him telling a full class at Juliard that he’d never found the need to learn to read and write music. Snicker.)

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I like Bob Dyland's music but his voice sucks. Not up to me how he composes his songs or writes his lyrics. No point being a critic unless you can do better. Hard to beat a Nobel laureate.

 

[Nitro]

I had the pleasure of attending a Bob Dylan show around 2008.

Saw the 50th anniversary of ZZ Top on stage too while Dusty was still kicking.

 

[Outdated]

I like Bob Dyland's music but his voice sucks. Not up to me how he composes his songs or writes his lyrics. No point being a critic unless you can do better. Hard to beat a Nobel laureate.

It's amazing just how much he wrote, a huge number of bands from back in that era were singing songs written by Dylan. Jimmy Hedrix's All Along The Watch Tower is a Dylan song.

 

[Nitro]

My most memorable Steve Miller show was where we had an extremely intense storm that soaked us to the bone prior to the show then got to witness mammatus overhead as Steve got on stage.
The band stopped the opening set as they were just as in awe of it as everyone at the venue.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Enjoy these musicians while you can they entering their eighties all you will get is cover versions of their music.

 

[Nitro]

Pretty good showing of talent on this one.
Just goes to show how great a tribute can be.
Prince, a very talented musician and song writer really went over the top when they gave him the guitar solo.

A lot of these guys aren't here anymore either, and they weren't in their 80s

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

All use baby boomers are passing away slowly at 80 the oldest cohort will have a death rate of 50%. My next inflection point is next year. death rate doubles at each inflection point.