Rules oriented

[Judge]

It seems to me that context has a big role in all of this, but to me that just adds complexity and confusion to a simple process.

I'd think anything requiring legal/political discretion usually does.

 

[Beverly]

What would you say about following society's rules and laws? I think that non aspies find it easier to show flexibility in abiding by rules for personal advantage.

Because of my career, I have separated my public persona as completely as possible from my private persona. Publicly, I have publicists and PR people to tell me how I should act, what view I should favor on this or that hot topic, etc...

Privately I don't give a damn. I'm me and, you can take me as I am or get out of my life. my life, my way so, like it or lump it, I don't care. What is politically or socially correct makes no difference to me personally. I will think what I think, believe what I believe and, live my private life to my liking no matter what the world says PERIOD.

Publically, well that's different, I'm supposed to be a certain person to the public, a bit edgy but not a total rebel. I'm not supposed to be religious or spiritual at all, I'm supposed to be a bit of a snob and, a slight diva. I'm not supposed to enjoy cooking, cleaning or tending livestock. I do but, that's my private life, the life the world will never see.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

I am a rules follower, but that is mainly because I hate being in trouble and I'm quite lazy. I find that doing things how they are supposed to be done makes things much easier in the long run and is generally less stressful. The only time I get annoyed at people breaking rules is when it puts people in danger, such as traffic rules. People who don't wear their seat belts, who don't follow lane instructions, who talk on their phones while driving, make me angry. people are perfectly entitled to put themselves in danger if they want to (want to take drugs? Go ahead, just don't expect sympathy when it messes you up), but putting other people in danger by breaking rules is never ok.

Having said that, I don't think I have a very strong sense of right and wrong. Other than the needlessly putting other people in danger through stupidity thing, I generally don't really care that much. My own cheerfully law abiding state is largely due to laziness, breaking the law just seems like so much effort. Why steal when it is much easier to work?
The only time my sense of 'right and wrong' becomes an issue is when I see other people trying to impose their ideals of right and wrong on others. Stick to your own morals and let other people stick to theirs, if they're not harming anyone.

 

[Miker]

You took the words right out of my mouth, except that I get bent out of shape. I'm hardcore with most rules, but I guess if they don't make sense for some reason or my logical brain thinks there's a better way, I challenge the rules.

A lot of what's already been said in this thread, I do.

It seems that this question is highlighting that aspies are all different but most are hardcore about rules. I am also guessing that most of the successful business people on this planet think that rules are there to be broken, so do you think that as an Aspie in this world you are at a disadvantage?

 

[Datura]

This thread sort of reminds me of an exercise I once had in a college course. One of those "oddball requirements" outside my major, but it had to be fulfilled. It was a criminal justice course in police/community relations.

The instructor was a former police chief. He posed this question: "What do you do if you see someone on the road driving erratically, only to stop them and determine it's the mayor's intoxicated wife?"

His answer upset a few of the students who I suppose anticipated a "black/white" approach to such an issue.

He recommended you discreetly escort her home to sleep it off. No arrest.

I don't understand the logic of this, or why it matters who she is married to. By letting her off easy she is likely to repeat the same behaviour and seriously risk killing or injuring somebody. One would think such unbiassed policing would garner the police force strong esteem in the public conciousness.

 

[AsperDragon]

I tend to be very rules oriented. I have learned the hard way (like that planet in the Hitchhiker's guide movie with the thought slappers) that rules are made to be selectively enforced. ....and they a are usually enforced on me even while others are engaging in the same activity as I and at the same time and visibly so. I have had managers watch a video on one persons cell phone and then turn to me a punish me for having my cell phone or to sit quietly and play crosswords. ...and then she returned to watching videos with the rulebreaker.

And my sense of right and wrong is supremely strong. ...give me a lever big enough and i will move the world in the right direction even if it had to be dragged along kicking and screaming.

 

[AsperDragon]

I think that I have heard a quote along the lines of "nobody is above the law"

Except ,it seems, the drunken wives of mayors.

 

[abby normal]

I don't do rules well, I chafe against them when I become aware of them.

 

[Cyrano]

I play the game by the rules, but what I've discovered in my life is that even when I play by the rules, dot all the I's and cross all the T's, I don't get the reward that the rules say I am entitled to. It seems as if there is a hidden rule everyone else can see but me that reads, "... except for Cyrano. He is not allowed to win. If necessary, the rules will be changed ex post facto so he does not win even if he really did." It is a long way past infuriating, and yet people wonder why I won't do things for them out of the goodness of my heart.

I went to school at a maritime academy, hoping to go into the military as a career. We had many rules there, and I will admit I bent a few of them. For instance, in the winter the campus could be bitterly cold. The uniform of the day frequently included reefer jackets (the officer equivalent of a wool peacoat), black leather gloves, blue wool scarves, and blue watch caps. I read the regulations and discovered a couple of things. First, that there was no rule on the depth of the watch cap, only that it be wool and navy blue. Second, that there was no regulation on the length of the blue wool scarf, only that it be navy blue. Third, that the regs were silent on whether or not black leather gloves could be lined. Fourth, that the regs were silent in the manner of how these things might be worn. So when some girls who had known me in high school gave me a Christmas present of a blue lambswool watch cap that when unrolled came down to my chin, a 12 foot long blue lambswool scarf, and I bought a pair of rabbit fur lined black leather gloves, I was all set. The watch cap had the front neatly folded up and pulled down on my forehead, and the back unfolded so it went down to my collar. I would tuck one end of the scarf inside my shirt and wrap it around my neck and face up to my eyes, neatly tucking it in behind my ear. And the rabbit-lined gloves looked like regular gloves. I was the only cadet in my class who didn't have constant windburn and a dripping nose outside. The Commandant of Cadets stopped me once and asked me what the hell I was wearing. I told him I was in the uniform of the day of watch cap, scarf, gloves, and reefer jacket. He said I was being impertinent. I pointed out that the regulations specified material and color, not size or the manner in which uniform items were to be worn. He realized I had him dead to rights and let me go without putting me on report, because he had no grounds.

Once you know what the rules are, you can bend them; but you have to know how far you can bend them and get away with it.

 

[abby normal]

I play the game by the rules, but what I've discovered in my life is that even when I play by the rules, dot all the I's and cross all the T's, I don't get the reward that the rules say I am entitled to. It seems as if there is a hidden rule everyone else can see but me that reads, "... except for Cyrano. He is not allowed to win. If necessary, the rules will be changed ex post facto so he does not win even if he really did." It is a long way past infuriating, and yet people wonder why I won't do things for them out of the goodness of my heart.

I went to school at a maritime academy, hoping to go into the military as a career. We had many rules there, and I will admit I bent a few of them. For instance, in the winter the campus could be bitterly cold. The uniform of the day frequently included reefer jackets (the officer equivalent of a wool peacoat), black leather gloves, blue wool scarves, and blue watch caps. I read the regulations and discovered a couple of things. First, that there was no rule on the depth of the watch cap, only that it be wool and navy blue. Second, that there was no regulation on the length of the blue wool scarf, only that it be navy blue. Third, that the regs were silent on whether or not black leather gloves could be lined. Fourth, that the regs were silent in the manner of how these things might be worn. So when some girls who had known me in high school gave me a Christmas present of a blue lambswool watch cap that when unrolled came down to my chin, a 12 foot long blue lambswool scarf, and I bought a pair of rabbit fur lined black leather gloves, I was all set. The watch cap had the front neatly folded up and pulled down on my forehead, and the back unfolded so it went down to my collar. I would tuck one end of the scarf inside my shirt and wrap it around my neck and face up to my eyes, neatly tucking it in behind my ear. And the rabbit-lined gloves looked like regular gloves. I was the only cadet in my class who didn't have constant windburn and a dripping nose outside. The Commandant of Cadets stopped me once and asked me what the hell I was wearing. I told him I was in the uniform of the day of watch cap, scarf, gloves, and reefer jacket. He said I was being impertinent. I pointed out that the regulations specified material and color, not size or the manner in which uniform items were to be worn. He realized I had him dead to rights and let me go without putting me on report, because he had no grounds.

Once you know what the rules are, you can bend them; but you have to know how far you can bend them and get away with it.

I would not survive one millisecond in such a strict environment.

 

[Miker]

I don't do rules well, I chafe against them when I become aware of them.

If you were in control of setting the rules would that have made a difference?

 

[abby normal]

If you were in control of setting the rules would that have made a difference?

I'm also lousy at making rules. either way, I have always struggled with rules.

 

[Miker]

I'm also lousy at making rules. either way, I have always struggled with rules.

The only reason that I mentioned it is because I read that an Aspie trait is to seek to follow rules but resists other's authority to change those rules if the new rules are illogical!

 

[abby normal]

The only reason that I mentioned it is because I read that an Aspie trait is to seek to follow rules but resists other's authority to change those rules if the new rules are illogical!

oh to be sure I have found most human-made rules to be rather arbitrary and custom fit to the petty prejudices of the makers of said rules. only the rules of nature seem to be above this mess.

 

[Judge]

I don't understand the logic of this, or why it matters who she is married to. By letting her off easy she is likely to repeat the same behaviour and seriously risk killing or injuring somebody. One would think such unbiassed policing would garner the police force strong esteem in the public conciousness.

Don't look for logic in everything. This amounts to a political and administrative decision. Bear in mind it was from a former Chief of Police. Someone directly responsible to a District Attorney as well as the mayor. Not a beat cop without any rank.

What we were taught at the college level was essentially that the best police officers use their discretion. That they aren't simply robotic enforcers of the law.

 

[Miker]

Don't look for logic in everything. This amounts to a political and administrative decision. Bear in mind it was from a former Chief of Police. Someone directly responsible to a District Attorney as well as the mayor. Not a beat cop without any rank.

What we were taught at the college level was essentially that the best police officer use discretion. That they aren't simply mindless enforcers of the law.

So if you are in a position of power or just a smooth talker then the chances are you sidestep most sticky situations. Something tells me that the average Aspie would not be so lucky!

 

[Judge]

So if you are in a position of power or just a smooth talker then the chances are you sidestep most sticky situations. Something tells me that the average Aspie would not be so lucky!

Absolutely. I've been there.

I was with an NT friend at the time who could charm any cop out of his pistol in his holster. Saved me from getting a minor moving violation that in real-time I wasn't very good at defending myself over.

The cop understood my friend's explanation of my own rationale and he let me go without incident. One thing I always wonder about is how much of a role it may have played that at the time we were both wearing suits and ties at the time...on our lunch hour a block away from the office.

 

[Alex Dame]

I have read that some traits of Aspergers are to be extremely rules oriented plus an acute sense of right and wrong. I was wondering to what extent this is a common set of traits amongst Aspies and to whether you perceive this as holding you back in the world?

From my perspective it seems as if I am the only one following rules and not many are! This could be uninformed nonsense though! Who knows, the world is a mystery to me!

As I see it, there's kind of a difference between following the rules and having a strong sense of right and wrong. Also, I believe right and wrong are sometimes a matter of opinion. The way that I see it, a lot of people are really pretty desensitized when it comes to minor or low-profile rule-breaking. It may not make rule-breaking ethical, but it could be a lot worse. Anyway, I agree with the acute sense of right and wrong, and I believe that DOES hold me back in life. I have a lot of very specific personal rules when it comes to entertainment, and it makes me afraid to see anything "new" in today's movies or shows. Also, my sense of integrity keeps me from appreciating remakes of movies and shows. It really feels like my sense of right and wrong makes it so much harder for me to live in today's society. At any rate, I think I can sympathize with your feelings of "I am the only one following the rules and not many are!"

 

[Miker]

As I see it, there's kind of a difference between following the rules and having a strong sense of right and wrong. Also, I believe right and wrong are sometimes a matter of opinion. The way that I see it, a lot of people are really pretty desensitized when it comes to minor or low-profile rule-breaking. It may not make rule-breaking ethical, but it could be a lot worse. Anyway, I agree with the acute sense of right and wrong, and I believe that DOES hold me back in life. I have a lot of very specific personal rules when it comes to entertainment, and it makes me afraid to see anything "new" in today's movies or shows. Also, my sense of integrity keeps me from appreciating remakes of movies and shows. It really feels like my sense of right and wrong makes it so much harder for me to live in today's society. At any rate, I think I can sympathize with your feelings of "I am the only one following the rules and not many are!"

Remakes of films are never usually as good anyway. I have a different issue with films which is why I won't pay to watch them at the cinema. That is the obscene salaries paid to the actors. I will only watch them on freeview a few years later! Is that an Aspie tendency or what?

 

[Progster]

I have a strong sense of justice and hate unfairness. Unfortunately, rules and fairness are two separate things and they don't always coincide, and that can bring me into conflict with authority. Many of the rules and laws that are made by society simply aren't fair.