logical thinking, and finding my true self

[musicalman]

Hey everyone!
So this just entered my mind oddly enough as I was writing an e-mail to someone I hadn't spoken to in a year, and trying to decide how to write the message.

In short, I'm not really sure how to think. My childhood thinking patterns don't help me function in the world. When I was a kid I snapped into a thought pattern that x = y. If z happened, x or y might change and work out to a different solution, but I had to understand how. If the relationship between x, y, and z wasn't straightforward enough, or if nobody could explain it, then I would be extremely perplexed, and, depending on my perceived severity of the situation, I would be pretty distraught for a while, and or be emotionally on edge and snap at people unintentionally because I was frustrated at the lack of an answer that would work every time. And for the record, I don't treat it like an algebra problem, in my head it's more fluid. Lol

I'm like that with a lot of things, but where it makes my life especially challenging is when socializing, because while I do like meeting different types of people, I begin looking for those xyz relationships too quickly. I'm one of those people who, if you seem to contradict what you said before, I'll have one of my aforementioned reactions trying to figure you out. It doesn't have to be direct contradiction either. For instance, if you and I both like a hard game, but then another hard game that's somewhat similar comes out and I like it but you hate it, I'll actually go crazy trying to figure out why you don't like it. At least I would have a few years ago, now I'm slowly getting better at just accepting that I can't process things so concretely. But it isn't easy.

I'm also very submissive, and I don't quite know why. For example when a friend of mine thought I had Aspergers, I believed him pretty quickly. I looked it up and was less convinced, but now I'm back to believing it again because of how different people on the spectrum really can be, and it's a spectrum after all.

But that aside, it bugs me how easily anyone could say something and I just believe it's true. I used to think doing research would make me better at that, but it only makes it worse because now I will likely get contradictory evidence and I don't know how to handle that. And the research analysis stuff they teach you in school doesn't help me too much unless it's something I have some hands-on experience with, then I can think through it nicely. But if it's anything else, I am too easily overloaded by different perspectives. How do I balance the contradiction to have a definitive answer? Of course I can't. Even if I somehow do come up with an xyz way of processing it, there's no telling just how many outcomes would be possible.

Also when I meet new people, I often find myself emulating them, almost subconsciously. Sometimes I feel as though I don't really know who I am, so I try to find myself in others. In truth, I do know a little bit about how I am, what my morals are, what my preferences are, what my primary interests are... But I still have a lot to cement into place. I find it difficult to find my own personality when interacting with different people, because just when I thought I found something comfy, I end up changing it, either because I feel I have to, or it just subconsciously happens. It's exhausting for me trying to find myself, but the only alternative is to consciously try to be what I'm not which is worse.

All my life I've been told that I need to get out and try more things, take more opportunities, and so I take them completely literally and do that with every chance I get (I'm submissive and try to do what I'm told. But now that I'm 25, people are shifting their story now: "You're an adult, if you don't want to do something you don't have to, just say no, stop being so nice to everyone, you can't keep doing that." I know it's true, and I want to be like that. But because I haven't found myself for lack of a better way to put it, I have a hard time deciding when to say yes and when to say no to favors. That bothers me more than anything else.

I've been told that these are common struggles in my age group, so part of me wants to believe that, but I think mine are more severe. While people don't often say it, I sometimes get subtle or not-so-subtle clues that I am just a little or a lot more awkward, indecisive and sensitive than they would expect. I think there are many contributing factors to it, but I'll just leave it at this: Are these traits common with aspies, or people with anxiety or something else or what? I know I won't get a definitive answer on this one, or a definitive way of knowing how to deal with it, and I accept that. I'm just looking for some perspective from others who may share some of this with me or can relate to it to some degree.

 

[Nervous Rex]

I relate to a lot of this.

I used to be completely unable to accept any new concept until I knew exactly how and why it worked.

I tend to take stuff people say at face value. I know I’ll be wrong sometimes, but it’s just easier than trying to figure people out.

I also tend to have a very passive personality. I don’t ever initiate social interactions or relationships on my own, but I do try to go along when someone else does.

 

[Bella Pines]

Well firstly I can put your mind to rest, you are aspergers.

I'm one of those people who, if you seem to contradict what you said before, I'll have one of my aforementioned reactions trying to figure you out

It's not you, it's them. Neurodiverse (aspies) work off datapoints and extrapolate conclusions. Neurotypicals are backwards and derive emotionally driven conclusions and look for datapoints to support their flawed hypotheses.

They will therefore change and replace the datapoints according to their needs. For example, if they want to prove that "you're never there for them", then they will pointedly ignore any incident that disproves this hypothesis. This is where you detect the contradictions.

Simply incorporate a random exponent called NT squared into each equation and the contradictions will be accounted for.

I'm also very submissive, and I don't quite know why. For example when a friend of mine thought I had Aspergers, I believed him pretty quickly. I looked it up and was less convinced, but now I'm back to believing it again because of how different people on the spectrum really can be, and it's a spectrum after all.

And this is forward thinking. You take a datapoint and draw a conclusion. However, since you are young, your mind works quickly on minor information. As you get older and more experienced you will learn to assess your knowledge repository and refrain from drawing conclusions until you have a sufficient number of datapoints to do so accurately.

Be wary of this, firstly, extrapolating patterns from insufficient datapoints (as you are doing now), secondly, the converse, where you become indecisive because you feel you don't have sufficient datapoints, and thirdly, reduced diversity. For example, if you are only surrounded with people like you, it will be impossible to predict the way the country will vote because your datapoints are insufficiently diverse.

Also when I meet new people, I often find myself emulating them, almost subconsciously. Sometimes I feel as though I don't really know who I am

Neurotypicals are in the majority and so this is the only way to fit in and "make friends". As you get older you will refine your emulation skillset. Some aspies put on so many masks they feel like they lose their own identity, but that's not true. At your core you have a set of values and principles and you are the sum of your choices in each moment. Once you have tried on enough masks then you can choose who to be. That is one of the aspergers gifts, we are able to morph into whatever person or role we are interested in.

It's exhausting for me trying to find myself, but the only alternative is to consciously try to be what I'm not which is worse.

You're trying too hard and spinning your wheels. Aspies are apart from the world and see situations objectively. You are not going to find yourself under the sofa or in the back of the wardrobe under a pile of discarded jumpers. You choose who you are. I have chosen to be help people and conduct myself with integrity. I am capable of being an isolated sociopath who can comfortably compartmentalize and internally rationalize my actions. But I choose not to follow that path. I want the world to be co-operative and inclusive and so act in such a way as to facilitate that, demonstrating kindness and emulating compassion.

You also need to choose who you want to be and stop whining about how that's "not who you are". Do you think anyone on this planet is "who they are"? People wear masks according to their environment and upbringing. Neurotypicals are rarely capable of changing because they can't see their life objectively. People who are unfortunate enough to be born into warzones and refugee camps will find themselves fighting for food, do you think that is "who they are"? People who are abused and from broken homes are often traumatized and have to live with ptsd, do you think that is "who they are"?. If you look to who you really are and happen to be hungry at the time, then you become a predator. If you look to who you are and happen to be angry at the time, then you become violent. So stop being so lazy and expecting your identity to be handed to you on a platter and put some effort into defining yourself.

All my life I've been told that I need to get out and try more things, take more opportunities, and so I take them completely literally and do that with every chance I get

This is good advice. Going back to the datapoint acquisition, eventually your special interests will find you, but you have to have sufficient exposure to diverse experiences.

I'm told. But now that I'm 25, people are shifting their story now: "You're an adult, if you don't want to do something you don't have to, just say no, stop being so nice to everyone, you can't keep doing that." I know it's true, and I want to be like that

So do it.

 

[techteach]

It's not you, it's them. Neurodiverse (aspies) work off datapoints and extrapolate conclusions. Neurotypicals are backwards and derive emotionally driven conclusions and look for datapoints to support their flawed hypotheses.

They will therefore change and replace the datapoints according to their needs. For example, if they want to prove that "you're never there for them", then they will pointedly ignore any incident that disproves this hypothesis. This is where you detect the contradictions.

Wow. I am new at this, I have been coping for years and not understanding why I don't understand people NTs.) I read your post half a dozen times. This is why I think NTs are dishonest (when I feel confident) or I think I am crazy/forgetful/ready to concede that I misunderstood what was said/a freak (when I am exhausted.)
Does that make sense? They are ignoring the data and I end up accepting what I know is not true with outward complacence. This is the way neurodiverse people live? NTs know they are always right and are so confident and we accept their world-view if we want to remain friends?
(I have written the above paragraphs a dozen times, trying to say what I want to, I give up, and am just going to write. If it sounds insane oh well )
This is why I don't really have many friends. If you question one of these hypotheses it is defended as if it were canon. And I really do not do well when people get upset with me my mind goes completely blank, and then either they talk at me and talk at me and talk at me until I apologize, or they get angry (that I would dare question them) and /or sarcastic. They "won", have proven themselves right and I feel like a freak. Until I go away and think about it and realize I was not necessarily wrong.
Just writing this I am reliving the shame and confusion.
This is why it is hard to feel close with people? I have three people with whom I can talk and share anything and they will be what I call honest.
We talk about wearing masks, NTs wear masks all the time, don't they.

Aspies are apart from the world and see situations objectively.

Yes. A strength

Neurotypicals are rarely capable of changing because they can't see their life objectively.

Wow. So we are blessed.

Bella amazing post. Thank you.