If my ARFID is immoral when it comes to veganism, then I don’t want to be pure and moral (rant)

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

I am a full fledged carnivore. There, I said it. Stay away from me, vegans, I’m dangerous!! XD

Jokes aside, my real case scenario is that I have ARFID (Avoidant Restricted Food Intake Disorder). With that said, it’s already a pain in the ass for us (some of us at least) to deal with.

And then there’s the political extremism in so-called ethics in eating meat. Because according to those people, eating meat is always, and I mean ALWAYS ethically wrong. And those who argue against such cases such as myself are told that there’s no point in defending ourselves because the morals of animal rights is OBVIOUS. (I hate Vox and other vegan propaganda sites)

Is there a moral case for eating meat?

Why vegetarians might not have a monopoly on ethical eating.

www.vox.com

There’s also a supposedly moral method that being vegan is a “healthier lifestyle”, because for some stupid reason eating meat has NO health benefits whatsoever (despite the fact that protein is a HUGE source for energy). Healthier my butt! As I said I have ARFID, I cannot stand the taste of vegetables, and I constantly vomited them out as a baby.

For those of you who are saying “but you’ll eventually like the vegan diet if you ever learn about how REALLY bad the animal exploitation is, so you gotta try it, it’s the only way to be ethical and healthy”, I already know damn well about animal exploitation. The problem is though, I have a better time consuming and digesting animal products compared to fruits and vegetables because I have extreme teeth sensitivity to acids and protein is the better alternative for my energy. It’s bad enough that I have excessive guilt going through me but whenever I see memes that trash on “animal lovers” and the annoying hashtag #GoVegan, I utterly go “that’s it, I might as well be dead”.

Living with ARFID sucks, and being piled upon by vegan propaganda is even worse. It is a huge discouragement to my already restrictive lifestyle. And the biggest lie of it all is that it intends to debunk every single rational argument against veganism, framing it as delusional and defensive, meanwhile veganism itself tries to portray itself as progressive (anti-racist, matriarchal, etc.).

The truth is however, at least what I see, is that veganism is anything BUT progressive. Veganism ignores the African cultures that encourage an all-meat diet, it overlooks the systemic misogyny indoctrinated in foods (particularly masculinity in meat and femininity in vegetables), and most of all, it hurts the disabled community and promotes diet culture by creating even more restrictions and moral norms on what is good and bad.

Now I will admit that a vegan diet has helped some people in terms of health benefits, and I’m not trying to attack anybody who is/was involved in the vegan community (cue the flood of comments of endless accusations). I just want to be honest with myself and all of you.

I don’t want to be “moral” anymore, ok? Living with ARFID is difficult as hell, so cut us some slack. Rant over.

 

[chincey_james]

I'm vegan, but I'm not utopian. It's the philosophy and diet that fits best with my love of animals and my hatred of violence. I can't eliminate all the suffering in the world, but I can reduce it a little, and that's good enough for me.

My form of harm reduction today is posting here to say that I'm sorry ARFID is so difficult. I can't imagine. I'm glad you have found a way to deal with your situation even if it is a different path than I've taken. We're all just doing our best to get by in this crazy, complicated world.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

I'm vegan, but I'm not utopian. It's the philosophy and diet that fits best with my love of animals and my hatred of violence. I can't eliminate all the suffering in the world, but I can reduce it a little, and that's good enough for me.

My form of harm reduction today is posting here to say that I'm sorry ARFID is so difficult. I can't imagine. I'm glad you have found a way to deal with your situation even if it is a different path than I've taken. We're all just doing our best to get by in this crazy, complicated world.

Thank you for your support. Though I need to be honest, as much as one can love animals, the harsh truth is that animals do not love us back.

Animals don’t have the genetics as humans do that require empathy. And what may be violence in terms in animal competition (given the nature of lions and other predators) is just them living the circle of life. They’re just simply here for the food. And as much as we want to avoid violence, that simply doesn’t change the nature of the violent tendencies in some animals.

We’re all cruel to each other, that’s simply just the way it is.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

I'm vegan, but I'm not utopian. It's the philosophy and diet that fits best with my love of animals and my hatred of violence. I can't eliminate all the suffering in the world, but I can reduce it a little, and that's good enough for me.

My form of harm reduction today is posting here to say that I'm sorry ARFID is so difficult. I can't imagine. I'm glad you have found a way to deal with your situation even if it is a different path than I've taken. We're all just doing our best to get by in this crazy, complicated world.

And even though a lot of scientific research claims that animals do have empathy, it’s not actually true because it isn’t natural animal psychology. And even if there is, it’s usually out of conditional love.

 

[chincey_james]

You and I have philosophical disagreements. I come from a quasi-Buddhist perspective: I agree existence is naturally cruel and full of suffering, but I believe in a spiritual protest against nature. I don't want to imitate nature. I want to rise above it with compassion (higher nature).

All that being said, I have zero interest in debating you or hijacking your thread. I just wanted to show some love and understanding as a non-aggressive vegan. We're not all bitter people sitting around judging you because you eat meat due to a medical condition. Again, very glad you have a way to survive that works for you!

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

You and I have philosophical disagreements. I come from a quasi-Buddhist perspective: I agree existence is naturally cruel and full of suffering, but I believe in a spiritual protest against nature. I don't want to imitate nature. I want to rise above it with compassion (higher nature).

All that being said, I have zero interest in debating you or hijacking your thread. I just wanted to show some love and understanding as a non-aggressive vegan. We're not all bitter people sitting around judging you because you eat meat due to a medical condition. Again, very glad you have a way to survive that works for you!

That’s interesting. I’m an atheist so I don’t rely on any religious beliefs to make decisions for me. I simply say it is what it is. Personally in my case, trying to change the way biology provides for us, no matter how much we want to go against it, doesn’t do any favors.

I don’t wish to debate either. But thanks again for your understanding.

 

[Mary Terry]

Farming plants requires killing everything on the land where the food plants are grown. The farmers kill all vegetation, all native insects, and all animals that depend on the native vegetation, and use fertilizers, pesticides and other toxins to grow the vegetables and to deter native life that depends on the vegetation to survive. Soils become nutritionally depleted and virtually useless unless more fertilizer is added to it.

Vegans and vegetarians never want to discuss this aspect of eating only vegetables, grains and fruits. So don't feel bad about eating meat but try to responsibly source your meats to avoid industrial animal feedlots that are cruel to the animals and produce less healthy meat than free range food animals. Cattle, hogs and chickens can be ethically raised on land without killing every other living thing on the land.

 

[Kavigant]

I also suffer from ARFID.
I eat meat primarily because I believe in evolution and see that humans have evolved in conjunction with the animal and plant foods which we have eaten for the entirety of our existence. Human physiology matches neither full herbivores nor full carnivores; we are omnivores: a worthy compromise between the two, allowing us to eat whatever is at hand.
I can see making the personal choice to avoid eating meat, but to mandate it or even to state as fact that a herbivorous diet is optimal are both just plain wrong and I will fight those assertions to my dying day.
For the most part, for most people, under most circumstances, meat is crucial for human health.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

I also suffer from ARFID.
I eat meat primarily because I believe in evolution and see that humans have evolved in conjunction with the animal and plant foods which we have eaten for the entirety of our existence. Human physiology matches neither full herbivores nor full carnivores; we are omnivores: a worthy compromise between the two, allowing us to eat whatever is at hand.
I can see making the personal choice to avoid eating meat, but to mandate it or even to state as fact that a herbivorous diet is optimal are both just plain wrong and I will fight those assertions to my dying day.
For the most part, for most people, under most circumstances, meat is crucial for human health.

I can totally relate as I believe in evolution as well. I’m honestly getting sick and tired of these memes and social media posts where vegans compare other people craving meat but claim that only eating veggies is not beneficial, or even better yet (that was sarcastic) do side-to-side comparisons with shocked reactions of animals dying but already dead animals being cooked into delicious food, or simply say “you say you’re an animal lover yet you kill them by eating them?”.

And what about the criticism of animal-made clothing? That’s ridiculous because cotton is a plant. It’s also sad how people don’t want to be called out for such contradictions, indicating that I’ve seen countless of pro-vegan articles that claim any argument against veganism is pointless, nonsensical, argumentative, and offended (such as pointing out the hypocrisy of killing plants and trees to eat fruits and veggies), in short, they just think we want to be right and assume that we’re just placing stereotypes upon them because we cannot seem to debate for squat, when in reality, THEY are the ones who are stereotyping themselves AND us.

This is not to attack vegans or veganism in general as a portion of human beings (though a small one at that) may benefit from such a diet due to middle/upper-class white privilege (and a dose of able-bodied privilege as well), but I really needed to point this out as I feel the double standards are ridiculous. I hope you can agree with that.

 

[vergil96]

I also struggle with food too much to further restrict my diet. I have a really unfortunate combo of issues when it comes to vegan foods, such as strong allergy to nuts, issues with legumes.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

I also struggle with food too much to further restrict my diet. I have a really unfortunate combo of issues when it comes to vegan foods, such as strong allergy to nuts, issues with legumes.

That’s awful. I’m sorry you have to go through that. I’m allergic to pecans, and the misfortune was when I was expected to try eating something “healthy”.

 

[Slime_Punk]

I've had extended stints on both the plant-based and meat-based diets due to my often-debilitating IBS, but I definitely respect people (and tend to agree with their point of view) on both sides of the argument. I think vegans and carnivores are likely to be fairly healthy, provided they choose high-quality food sources.

Of course, the vegan diet has a lot more ethics that go along with it, and personally I'd go on the plant-based diet and stay there for the ethics alone if it weren't for my horrible gut problems. I'd never want to proclaim veganism, because there's harm against animals (or insects) done no matter what we eat in today's world, but I'm a fan of the 'doing less harm' stance as well, but apparently the universe had other plans.

It's pretty strange to consider the idea that in order to feed humans, someone or something has to die (more or less). Even when it comes to plants and bugs, that part still makes me feel a bit uneasy. But also, anyone claiming to have moral superiority over others is definitely losing the battle anyway for more reasons than they know.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Being vegan on the basis of animal cruelty is a logical fallacy.

Grass fed, pastured ruminant meat is the most humane food source.

You see, even with organic agriculture, in order to get a monocrop that is uniform in quality and ripeness, you have to till the soil, which rips up the microorzai, and kills every mouse, vole, coyote pup, bunny, snake, and the millions of insects as well, for hundreds of acres.

Next you need to spray, even with organic. Otherwise there will be worm holes, and all the insects and animals will also eat a significant amount of your crop.

Meanwhile, grass fed, pastured ruminant animals, like beef, all you have to do is move them to different pastures to eat the weeds.

With beef the death is ONE animal, rather than the millions of animals and bugs for one field of crop.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Plus, beef is the true superfood. Other than vitamin c, you can get most of your daily intake of nutrients from beef. Every cell in your body is made from the amino acids that beef provides.

 

[Cryptid]

I would like to have a more vegetarian diet; but, where I live, most meals are heavy on fats, oils, and carbohydrates. Even finding a variety of fresh vegetables at the grocers' is a hit-and-miss effort. Fresh fruits and veggies wilt quickly in this sub-tropical environment, and refrigeration is too expensive for most vendors.

 

[Rodafina]

The food we choose to eat is such a personal decision affected by cultural, financial, medical, and sensory factors. My perspective is that no adult should ever tell another adult what to eat.

(Vegetarian for 30 years, here.)

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

I've had extended stints on both the plant-based and meat-based diets due to my often-debilitating IBS, but I definitely respect people (and tend to agree with their point of view) on both sides of the argument. I think vegans and carnivores are likely to be fairly healthy, provided they choose high-quality food sources.

Of course, the vegan diet has a lot more ethics that go along with it, and personally I'd go on the plant-based diet and stay there for the ethics alone if it weren't for my horrible gut problems. I'd never want to proclaim veganism, because there's harm against animals (or insects) done no matter what we eat in today's world, but I'm a fan of the 'doing less harm' stance as well, but apparently the universe had other plans.

It's pretty strange to consider the idea that in order to feed humans, someone or something has to die (more or less). Even when it comes to plants and bugs, that part still makes me feel a bit uneasy. But also, anyone claiming to have moral superiority over others is definitely losing the battle anyway for more reasons than they know.

You might need to realize that plants are living beings as well, so we’re not actually doing less harm. You can’t really avoid eating things that are actually killed, you know what I’m saying?

Edit: my clarification is that animals are going to harm other animals AND plants anyway, so no diet is more or less ethical. Meaning, if you go on an all plant diet, you’re doing more harm to animals by taking away their supply of nutrients and you’re also harming plants, because well, you’re killing them. In short, if you want to survive, things have to be killed. In other words, ethics in eating DOES NOT EXIST. Food has no moral. It’s not supposed to be moral, eating specific foods doesn’t make you good or bad, it just means you recognize how much your body needs nourishment. I understand it’s uncomfortable to hear about death in order to eat, but it’s just simple biology.

 

[chincey_james]

The perfect is the enemy of the good. That is my motto. As I vegan, I don't seek perfection or sainthood.

There are intolerant vegans, carnivores, and everyone inbetween. I have received more criticism in my life for being vegan than I have ever given to someone who chooses to eat meat.

It is sad how divisive diet is. In many ways, it causes more stress to discuss than is worth it in my opinion. Kindness and understanding to all!

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

My compromise some veggies lots of fruit bit of meat.

 

[2Fragile2TakeCriticism]

The perfect is the enemy of the good. That is my motto. As I vegan, I don't seek perfection or sainthood.

There are intolerant vegans, carnivores, and everyone inbetween. I have received more criticism in my life for being vegan than I have ever given to someone who chooses to eat meat.

It is sad how divisive diet is. In many ways, it causes more stress to discuss than is worth it in my opinion. Kindness and understanding to all!

I could never agree more. As a carnivore, I have been given the most brutal feedback from a lot of people, vegan or not. They couldn’t simply understand why I tend to eat certain types of foods and still live upon them. I guess people mock what they don’t understand.