I am considered a Grammar Nazi, is this a common Aspie trait?

[CMZ]

I could see it being an Aspie trait and I was thinking about this earlier today.

My gripe is not that an individual might make an error now and then (hey, I do it), but that society is collectively getting dumber and accepting misspellings and strange punctuational pseudo-conventions. For instance, using apostrophes to denote plurals rather than for possessives. Example:

• John saying, "I applied for a whole bunch of job's today."

So, no, it doesn't ruin my world that John made a little punctuation mistake, but I'm deeply concerned that nobody else seems to care nor realize that he is getting plurals and possessives mixed up and that I've seen literally thousands upon thousands of examples of this (also known as the "greengrocer's apostrophe" - How the Grocer’s Apostrophe led to generations of confused writers - Juliet Fay) even in instances where you'd think someone would have known better and I'm starting to see it more and more often in even so-called "professional" publications.

Now someone might say (and they have said this to me), "You're just not accepting that language is dynamic and evolving all the time." Well, actually I do accept that it is dynamic and evolving but the evolution should only occur to address newly arising needs. Evolution in language shouldn't occur just because some percentage of the populace (no matter how large a percentage it is) doesn't know and doesn't care to learn a rule, and usually it's a simple rule. In the case of the greengrocer's apostrophe I'm afraid that some people's attitude has become, "Since so many people get plurals and possessives mixed up and thereby add apostrophes where none are needed then we need to make it a rule in the English language for everybody to do so all the time. It doesn't matter if you are one of the people who actually knew not to do this before; you must now get in line with what the people who didn't understand the rules started to habitually do just because a critical enough mass of them have inadvertently insisted on doing so."

The greengrocer's apostrophe is just one such example. There are so many others and one of the new up and coming ones is everyone all of a sudden using "of" in place of just about every other preposition (e.g., Louis C.K. remarking, "I'm remorseful of my actions." ). I'll stop there.

 

[stringer]

"In the case of the greengrocer's apostrophe I'm afraid that some peoples' attitude has become..."

Not wanting to seem pedantic, but I think your "...some peoples' attitude..." should be "...some people's attitude..." . The word people is already the plural, and so to make it possessive the apostrophe should come before the s, not after. As in "children's."

And arguably, your "greengrocer's apostrophe" should be "greengrocers' apostrophe," since it is usually referring not to the grammatical error of a single specific greengrocer, but to a rather general grammatical failing of the entire profession of greengrocers. This one is more debatable, though, because perhaps it is legitimate to refer to the individual failing of a single greengrocer. That is to say, one could perhaps equally correctly speak of the error as being that of a greengrocer, or as being that of greengrocers. So perhaps my challenge of the location of your apostrophe in greengrocer's is unjustified. I suppose either would be OK.

 

[CMZ]

"In the case of the greengrocer's apostrophe I'm afraid that some peoples' attitude has become..."

Not wanting to seem pedantic, but I think your "...some peoples' attitude..." should be "...some people's attitude..." . The word people is already the plural, and so to make it possessive the apostrophe should come before the s, not after. As in "children's."

And arguably, your "greengrocer's apostrophe" should be "greengrocers' apostrophe," since it is usually referring not to the grammatical error of a single specific greengrocer, but to a rather general grammatical failing of the entire profession of greengrocers. This one is more debatable, though, because perhaps it is legitimate to refer to the individual failing of a single greengrocer.

Thank you! I corrected the first instance and left the second one as is partly because I copied it from that web page I linked to and partly, yes, because it is a little ambiguous. But you do make a good point.

Being human I make mistakes now and then and when I have made such grammar mistakes my friends or family members would say, "How do you feel now that you're the one getting corrected?" And I would say, "I feel just fine and I'm thankful for the correction." Offense shouldn't be taken at correction unless the correction is offered in an obviously offensive way. I have a co-worker who is constantly mangling the language and I would almost as constantly correct him and when I did he would offer a since, "Thank you," and the conversation would move on. One time, after many, many instances of this, I told him, "It's a little refreshing that you don't take my kindly offered correction offensively because most people do." He kind of crinkled up his face and said, "Really? People get offended when you let them know the right way to say something? That's weird."

 

[CMZ]

I agree!!! What difference does it make in the grand scheme of things if someone slaughters the King's English. If I can understand what someone is trying to convey, then I am unconcerned if they lack proper grammar.

The thing is sometimes they aren't communicating properly and what they intend to say is hard to discern. Quite often I will read something as it is written and it doesn't make sense to me and I have to look at it and quiz over it until I finally unravel what they meant to say. And sometimes I am never able to figure it out because their writing was so muddled. And this happens in speaking too where I have to ask someone what they meant to say. Actual instance from within the last couple months:

ME: "You just said 'corroborate,' but I think you meant 'collaborate,' but I'm not certain."

OTHER PERSON: "Oh, yeah, I meant 'collaborate.'"

Does that prove that I was somehow being an offensive grammar nazi?

 

[Lady Penelope]

I was very much a grammar Nazi, but began to change when I learned about Descriptivism vs Prescriptivism.

Prescriptivism is the viewpoint that the English language is codified in a set of rigid and unchangeable rules. Prescriptivists view a dictionary as defining how words should be used. This viewpoint is what a lot of us learned in our English classes.

Descriptivism is the approach that English is a living, changing thing, and all we can do is describe how it is used. Most dictionary editors are descriptivists. If enough people use a word a certain way, it is added to the dictionary.

So, I try to take a descriptivist viewpoint, and let people say what they say. If I can understand what they mean, it's good enough. You can say "lit", "woke", "hep" or "whatever." My wife and her siblings say " do you remember whenever we did this?" when they refer to one occasion. I would have said "when" instead of whenever. But I write it off as a regionalism. It's not how I talk, bit it works just as well.

There are still things that make my eyes involuntarily twitch, though. I am 100% an Oxford comma man. I just don't call people on it unless I'm reviewing text for them. Maybe I'm just a passive, closet grammar Nazi.

I LOVE this!!!
I have noticed grammar, spelling, and incorrect use of words since I was a precocious child. My pet peeve is spelling errors on signage and advertising, with special teeth clenching reserved for pubs that claim 4-6pm is only one hour.

I ceased pointing out every instance after I thought about the origin and purpose of language. English is a hotch-potch of germanic languages, the obvious influence being French, and as language evolved from speach to written form, there was no standard spelling and so it could differ slightly from scribe to scribe.

Additionally, the purpose of language is to communicate. I may find incorrect use of words and made up words punctuated by grunts and facial expressions abhorrent, however, if I understand the sentiment then we have successfully communicated. Although I'm dying inside ...

I love language but understand orthography, sadly, is not for everyone.

 

[CMZ]

Yes. I was taught that an apostrophe after the ‘s’ is plural and the double one of these (“) is used for speech as is in quoting someone talking to enclose that information. I was also taught that the singles ones (‘) are used to quote something in general. Feel free to correct me otherwise.

Apostrophes do not denote plurals. They denote possessives. I think what you are talking about is what might be called a plural possessive. For instance:

• CORRECT: "The cats were at play." (No apostrophe needed in "cats" because it's just talking about more than one cat, not something that a cat possesses.)
  INCORRECT: "The cat's were at play."
  ALSO INCORRECT: "The cats' were at play."
  
• CORRECT: "We took our cat's scratching post away." (This means one cat had their scratching post taken away.)
• CORRECT: "We took our cats' scratching post away."(This means more than one cat had their scratching post taken away.)

The problem is that sooooo many people confuse plurals and possessives and scatter apostrophes all over the place. I recently saw on Instagram the following, "This was one of my favorite Christmas' ever." Well, that person (my niece, bless her soul) was getting plurals and possessives mixed up. No, I didn't point it out; yes, I hope she learns the correct rule at some point. I think there's this thing going on where people think the mere addition of an apostrophe makes what they are saying correct.

 

[Karen S.]

Lol you’re not the only one as I’m also a grammar and spelling natzi. Suzanne, your sentences are too long.

Btw, It's Nazi

 

[Karen S.]

Btw, It's Nazi

My last job was editing orders. I was great with that, but they also wanted me to file stuff in a nightmare system, that was too overwhelming.

 

[Nervous Rex]

English is a hotch-potch of germanic languages, the obvious influence being French...

"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James Nicoll

 

[Suzanne]

Lol you’re not the only one as I’m also a grammar and spelling natzi. Suzanne, your sentences are too long.

Ok, confession time! I was trying to be blase about it, but stupidily is plaquing me now and each time I type, I fear my sentences are too long.

So, can you tell me, despite the smilie, whether you mean it, or you are really just teasing?

 

[sidamo]

I can tolerate a lot but I feel that I *must* speak up when someone uses the apostrophe wrong (or forgets it). Many Americans have no clue anymore when to write it's and when to write its. Unbearable.

 

[Kirsty]

So, can you tell me, despite the smilie, whether you mean it, or you are really just teasing?

I mean it. The smilie is just to make me sound less confrontational and nice. In reality, I’m not horrible, whereas on here it might sound like I am when I’m not.

 

[Kirsty]

Btw, It's Nazi

DAMN! Lol. Oh yeah, so it is.

 

[Suzanne]

I mean it. The smilie is just to make me sound less confrontational and nice. In reality, I’m not horrible, whereas on here it might sound like I am when I’m not.

I had a very bad education and had to mostly teach myself how to write and often, think my paragraphs are too long, but it just does not fit to go to a new paragraph.

 

[Progster]

So, no, it doesn't ruin my world that John made a little punctuation mistake, but I'm deeply concerned that nobody else seems to care nor realize that he is getting plurals and possessives mixed up and that I've seen literally thousands upon thousands of examples of this (also known as the "greengrocer's apostrophe" - How the Grocer’s Apostrophe led to generations of confused writers - Juliet Fay) even in instances where you'd think someone would have known better and I'm starting to see it more and more often in even so-called "professional" publications.

Yes, I think that people are so used to seeing grammar mistakes all over the internet that they have become desensitized and they no longer even notice them or care. Especially when people write anonymously, it is no longer important to them to write correctly.

 

[stringer]

'Being human I make mistakes now and then and when I have made such grammar mistakes my friends or family members would say, "How do you feel now that you're the one getting corrected?" And I would say, "I feel just fine and I'm thankful for the correction."'

I agree absolutely. I am always noticing people's grammatical mistakes, and sometimes I point them out if I think it can be done in an inoffensive or friendly way. (I don't always get that right!) But I am always happy to have people point out my own mistakes. It's all part of the game...

 

[pjcnet]

I think part of the reason a lot of people have become lazy with both grammar and spelling is because of Internet chat including on smart phones (also SMS messages) where people want to communicate as quickly and efficiently as possible, often in real time, commonly using Internet short hand and slang. Years ago writing communication was never done in real time giving people plenty of time to think about what they were writing and to present it properly. On top of this culture has changed, years ago people used to generally write a lot more neatly and a lot more time was spent carefully practising handwriting skills in schools because it was seen as a lot more important, now handwriting is less used and it doesn't matter so much to many people as long as it's readable. Also when writing a letter rules were usually strictly adhered to that are now often broken or modified and many people don't think it really matters any more as long as the letter is readable and gets the information across. Times have definitely changed.

 

[CMZ]

Also when writing a letter rules were usually strictly adhered to that are now often broken or modified and many people don't think it really matters any more as long as the letter is readable and gets the information across. Times have definitely changed.

The multi-faceted problem going on here is that often a letter/communication is not readable and does not get its information across correctly but that nobody is allowed to point that out anymore. One asks for clarity and they get raked over the coals for "thinking they are better than others," when maybe that's not what they actually think. Maybe they truly just want clarity, not a feeling of superiority.

 

[tree]

@CMZ
"Maybe they truly just want clarity, not a feeling of superiority."

This is true for me.
I get stuck on typos.

Sometimes I lose all sense of what the person is saying
because I can't figure out WHAT the person IS saying
when the words don't look like real words to me, or are
words that don't fit the context (like homonym substitutions.)

 

[CMZ]

This literally just happened to me a few minutes ago when I was watching a subtitled movie on Netflix streaming and read a sentence from it that didn't make sense. I thought about it for a while then realized if a comma got added at a certain point in the sentence then it did make sense.