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How NTs see Aspies

Mark_D

Well-Known Member
If you're an Aspie involved with an NT, have you been told what they think of being around you? This was shown to me by an NT to 'share with me' how my condition affects her. I had a very negative reaction to this and I'm interested to hear how other Aspies feel about this. image.jpg
 
Wow, I am sorry to say as a Neurotypical married to an Aspie- that accurately describes the past 11 years of my life.

I am hoping that since there has recently been a diagnosis, we can work together so that in a few years, this will no longer resonate with me. So much of the past makes sense now and I have been able to forgive a lot, knowing now that he did not hurt me on purpose. I am also hoping that he will be able to be more open when I describe how I am feeling rather than getting defensive, turning things around and finding blame. That probably is one of the most difficult parts for me. It starts to make me feel like I am crazy. Since diagnosis, he has been able to forgive himself for the past. He has told me that he sees how his past actions have hurt me after doing research on Aspergers. He understands me better now as well. I love my husband and pray that our relationship will improve over time.

Mark, I hope your relationship will be able to improve over time as well. I am sorry that your NT chose this way to communicate with you. I can understand how hurtful that would be. Best wishes to you.
 
This really depresses me. However, there is a question that's been buggin me? How come, whenever you see an NT complaining about their marriage to an AS the NT is always a woman, and the AS spouse is a man? Tony Atwood believes that Aspergers is found among men and women at a rate of 2 to 1. So us aspergirls are out there.

Could it be that some of the problems are communication difficulties that sometimes (not always) may crop up between men and women, and the AS is being blamed? Also, I was reading something by a psychitrist who said that over and over again, married couples come into his office and claim that the husband has aspergers. Over and over again, it turns out the husband is actually NT. So maybe aspergers is a scapegoat in some cases?

I'm really sorry for the pain this is causing you.
These things hurt. It hurts to unintentionally cause pain to someone else, to have our relationships damaged and not know why. Maybe it is our AS, maybe it's other things. Either way, it hurts when we truly love the other person.
 
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:) well... sounds like it's written by somebody who's really upset about their relationships or about life in general :) the "punch" in the chest that I have felt is dues to the negativity of the message, if you feel angry about this you can choose to direct the anger towards the owner of the message but it would seem irrational... but... if you feel it is unjust: advocate

reminds me of what men think about women and what women think about men kind of thing :)
 
LIKE I SAY WHAT PART Of aspergers did she not understand they make out they are the victims in all of this
 
Suki,

Wow, I am sorry to say as a Neurotypical married to an Aspie- that accurately describes the past 11 years of my life.

I am hoping that since there has recently been a diagnosis, we can work together so that in a few years, this will no longer resonate with me. So much of the past makes sense now and I have been able to forgive a lot, knowing now that he did not hurt me on purpose. I am also hoping that he will be able to be more open when I describe how I am feeling rather than getting defensive, turning things around and finding blame. That probably is one of the most difficult parts for me. It starts to make me feel like I am crazy. Since diagnosis, he has been able to forgive himself for the past. He has told me that he sees how his past actions have hurt me after doing research on Aspergers. He understands me better now as well. I love my husband and pray that our relationship will improve over time.

Mark, I hope your relationship will be able to improve over time as well. I am sorry that your NT chose this way to communicate with you. I can understand how hurtful that would be. Best wishes to you.

Just the fact that you can forgive and are willing to be patient and understanding will go a long way with him. The problems come when the NT can't let anything go and only wants to discuss why her life hell because of the Aspie. When total responsibility for all the bad that's happened in the marriage is dumped on us, it's too much to deal with so we just end up angry and resentful.

It sounds like you're a good person and a good wife. I hope his AS isn't so bad that he's unable to work through issues with you.
 
LIKE I SAY WHAT PART Of aspergers did she not understand they make out they are the victims in all of this

My thoughts exactly. I have yet to meet a perfect person. Anyone who has been to couple's therapy or has any management training or even a behavioral psych class understands that there are two people involved in communication. Likewise there are two people in any relationship. I'm pretty close to certain that no troubled relationship is solely the fault of one member of the couple.

That list upsets me because it is all about faults belonging to the Aspie. Don't people realize that sometimes these behaviors are made much worse by putting the Aspie in situations that are known to upset him or stress him out? I had a huge blowup last night because I was in a stressful situation, made it known that I was uncomfortable and was told to "just ignore it". After quite some time of seemingly being in control of myself, something happened that caused me to come totally unhinged.

Yes, the eventual behavior is totally wrong, but everyone has a breaking point and not bothering to understand only makes things worse.

How would an NT feel if They sat on a chair with a tack in it and was told to just ignore it? When that discomfort grew and grew until a seemingly minor thing made them totally go ape the only reaction they got was for the other person to say how awful and abusive they are. Never mind the tack in the butt.

This treatment is actually a very effective form of torture used for a very long time. I have heard this type of treatment referred to as tough love. THIS IS NOT AN ACT OF LOVE! We are not children testing boundaries with our parents, for goodness' sake.
 
This treatment is actually a very effective form of torture used for a very long time. I have heard this type of treatment referred to as tough love. THIS IS NOT AN ACT OF LOVE! We are not children testing boundaries with our parents, for goodness' sake.
Careful what you say! That's not a good way to treat children either!! (who, at least when very little, really are not malicious, either, just following instincts)
 
The thing I hate about that "bottom line" article is how hopeless it makes the whole thing seem. Basically it's telling the NT person: "your life will be cra[. He/she (the AS person) is predetermined to hurt you."
It's telling the NT person they can't do anything about it, because they are already innocent, already doing their best. It's saying the AS person can't do anything because aspergers will necessarily and always cause them to hurt the NT.
 
I am an NT female and I am involved with an AS male.

I read what was written and I think it was a generalization but I also think it is true in most relationships that have this dynamic. I don't necessary think it is doom and gloom because from all the research and reading I have done it is accurate. I have also learned that this happens more with AS males and NT females because NT females are so emotionally based. When it is reversed it doesn't seem to be as much of an issue because NT men are not as emotionally based as NT women and dont need the emotional support an NT female needs.

With that said every one is an individual and even though we are categorizing NT and AS's the fact is that what is true for one person is not true for another. I think everyone should be treated as individuals. There are many many books out there about AS individuals and hardly any that explain NT's to AS individuals. I would love to have a book that would help explain why I do things and what I mean to my AS boyfriend.

One problem I have is that when someone describes an AS individual NT's are suppose to take that as fact and move forward with that information. When an NT does the same they are constantly questioned by AS individuals as if what they are saying is not fact or true. I think the basic issue is not only communication but also respect. If an NT takes time to explain what they need then there are obviously 2 choices. Then AS can take it as fact and do what they need or dont do it and end the relationship.

What I have found from this site is that the most successful relationships are where the AS man takes the word of the NT female and tries to meet her needs. I think that when you enter into a relationship with an AS individual you are agreeing to learn about them and meet their needs so why shouldn't it be reciprocal? But I have found with my AS boyfriend it is like pulling teeth. He thinks I should do it for him but not vice versa. He argues every point and makes me explain and justify why I feel a certain way or do a certain thing.
I always refer to this website and say wait there are men on here that are willing to do it.
They are trying.
I have been told by my bf that there are not as many aspie women as are men but even if he meets one it doesn't mean he will like them. So I believe if you meet an NT that you like why not just accept what they say and do it. I really dont see the dilemma.
One man wrote on here how his sister reminds him to take his wife out on date nights, buy a card, bring flowers, whatever.
It is two individual people with two totally different sets of needs and if one is expected to do for the other then the other should do for them.
If they did then they would not be having the issues mentioned.
Also I think the AS has to explain to the NT what their behavior means. Yes it can be interpreted as selfish if not explained properly. Just say I am very focused and I realize I talk about my self alot and that may seem self centered. Just let me know by doing this...... kindly and nicely and I will stop. And if you need to be heard do this..... It is the same as any other relationship.
What has happened is many people got involved and the partner was diagnosed while they were married. The other partner then thinks well things will never change and just give up rather than being glad that things are explained and trying harder to communicate
 
My parents and boyfriend know me well, I think they'd agree that the picture in the OP doesn't apply to me. I mean, I won't say I'm not high-maintenance or difficult to deal with at times, but I don't think it's quite as bad as the picture makes it seem.
 
I'll try to break down why I was so upset to see this page on a site for NTs to support each other in their relationships with Aspies.

I read what was written and I think it was a generalization but I also think it is true in most relationships that have this dynamic. It is most definitely a generalization; more than that it feels like a stereotype. You are correct in that each person is an individual.

There are many many books out there about AS individuals and hardly any that explain Neurotypical's to AS individuals. It would be great to be able to understand why NTs behave in a way that is, at least in my opinion as it relates to my NT, quite baffling, egocentric, and condescending. I, for one, am sick of being told that I'm wrong, that I am a boy and not a man, that I have zero common sense, etc., etc. What is the expected outcome of that? Am I supposed to believe everything I'm told? Act like my 90 year-old Father? Perceive and approach problems like other people think I should? I just find these things hateful. If they're not it would be helpful to know.

One problem I have is that when someone describes an AS individual Neurotypical's are suppose to take that as fact and move forward with that information. When an Neurotypical does the same they are constantly questioned by AS individuals as if what they are saying is not fact or true. I think the basic issue is not only communication but also respect. If an Neurotypical takes time to explain what they need then there are obviously 2 choices. Then AS can take it as fact and do what they need or dont do it and end the relationship. this is one of those things that frustrates and confuses me. No offense, Ma'am, but let me tell you what I see in this. Aspies, if you agree, help me explain if I don't do a good job. What I read in your comment says that you feel that you're supposed to take a summary of AS behaviors as a fact and accept that summary as who your Aspie is and that negative behavior from the list should be ascribed to AS. Then I see that you feel an NT needs to communicate their needs to the Aspie who can then accept everything they are told as a fact. There are two choices now for the Aspie: to accept what the NT said as a fact and meet her needs or not accept the list as fact and leave the relationship. I'm pretty sure I did a decent job of restating what you said.

If it is true that you took a synopsis of AS and used it as a map of sorts, you did both of you a disservice. No one will match your synopsis. You have to talk with the Aspie to find out his feelings about all the areas that may be a problem. Only when you've done that will you know what you're dealing with.

Why do you say that the Aspie needs to take your list of needs as fact? This is something that I personally take issue with, that is to say, a person relaying feelings as facts (This can take the form of "you are x, you do x, you think x".) When NTs do this, if the Aspie feels that the fact you stated is inaccurate he will tell you so. It may then happen that the NT's response is something similar to "Don't try to invalidate my feelings! They're mine and I'm entitled to them!" If other Aspies are like me this is very frustrating. Facts are facts and can be disputed. Feelings come from emotion and can only be changed if they were caused by misunderstanding or if circumstances that generated the feelings are changed. A statement of feeling should be started with "I feel..." A person has to own his or her feelings. By the way, this helps clear things up for the Aspie. Okay, back to the point.

Just like you can't begin to understand what goes on in the mind of a person with AS until you explore it, neither can you expect the Aspie to make heads or tails of your requests unless they're discussed and made as specific as possible. This may feel artificial to you, but if someone can't grasp a concept, it is unreasonable to expect him to know what kinds of actions will be meaningful to you. It is as though you are discussing changing the paint scheme in your home and you ask your friend his opinion about whether two certain colors complement one another, but this guy is totally color blind. He doesn't understand color, so he will never be able to answer the question. You can educate him so he can roughly match a certain shade of gray to what you tell him is red, but he'll never be able to discriminate between all the different shades of red much less be able to describe to you what he sees.

If as you say you can accept an explanation for behavior and are willing to honor a request such as "please get my attention and let me shift my focus" when you need to be heard, you are a rare breed. Do you have a sister who is just like you? I'm always willing to trade up:D

Working on a relationship is very much a two-way affair. If you have been led to believe that you're supposed to make all the concessions, you have been misled. There is a school of thought that the Aspies, being deficient, are the ones who need to learn how to act normally so as not to behave in a conspicuous manner. Both those approaches are wrong, unfair to one person or another, and are doomed to fail.

I can't get past when you said above that if we meet an NT we like, we should just accept what they say and do it. If you met a man that you liked would you just accept whatever he said and change yourself? I doubt it. I would say that a person who does that probably suffers from some condition not mentioned in this forum. The person who expects change just by requesting it likely needs therapy also.
 
I have to say that I've been feeling bad that is this how my ex's have felt. I've never been passive aggressive, screaming and hysteric gf, but I have my difficulties and they mush have been scared because there was no told reason to this. I got my diagnosis only after my latest break up and never spoke about my suspects much either. Sad, but not particularly my problem anymore anyways, I just hope they can find a peace with what they've got through.
 
I have to say that I've been feeling bad that is this how my ex's have felt. I've never been passive aggressive, screaming and hysteric gf, but I have my difficulties and they mush have been scared because there was no told reason to this. I got my diagnosis only after my latest break up and never spoke about my suspects much either. Sad, but not particularly my problem anymore anyways, I just hope they can find a peace with what they've got through.

Try not to feel guilty. It's easier said than done, I know, but it's healthy if you can accept that the guys bore half the responsibility for sustaining the relationship. Guilt has driven a lot of my actions over the years and has led to unwise decisions many times. If it possible for you, I would encourage you to find a good counselor who knows how to deal with your particular issues and condition(s). It makes you feel less alone and gives you a safe place to express whatever you're feeling.

If you can't, hopefully someone here can be helpful.
 
I think one thing going on in this whole issue, is that women, in general, tend to complain a lot about their husbands, in general. Whether or not he has aspergers. And some of these women have a lot of self-centeredness behind it. (I'm not saying that's the case in every situation, but definitely in some of the cases.) AS gives some of them something to blame the complaints on.

Look at marriages in general. There's a lot of NT couples with problems.
 
It would be great to be able to understand why NTs behave in a way that is, at least in my opinion as it relates to my Neurotypical, quite baffling, egocentric, and condescending. I, for one, am sick of being told that I'm wrong, that I am a boy and not a man, that I have zero common sense, etc., etc. What is the expected outcome of that? Am I supposed to believe everything I'm told? Act like my 90 year-old Father? Perceive and approach problems like other people think I should? I just find these things hateful. If they're not it would be helpful to know. What I meant by my statement was I think it would be nice to know why NTs do the things they do. I think what you are describing is verbal abuse and no one should have to take that. I am only saying to get a book for constructive reasons to help explain NT behavior

What I read in your comment says that you feel that you're supposed to take a summary of AS behaviors as a fact and accept that summary as who your Aspie is and that negative behavior from the list should be ascribed to AS. Then I see that you feel an Neurotypical needs to communicate their needs to the Aspie who can then accept everything they are told as a fact. There are two choices now for the Aspie: to accept what the Neurotypical said as a fact and meet her needs or not accept the list as fact and leave the relationship. I'm pretty sure I did a decent job of restating what you said. No, what I meant by this is that I think that an NT should be able to say how they feel or what they need without the AS discounting what they are saying or saying they are incorrect. I was not speaking of Negative behavior of AS's just behavior in general. No, I didnt mean that I should take a summary of facts from books. What I am saying is that the books help to have a basic outline and help in understanding the different behavior traits. From that I would ask my partner which traits he feels he has and if the description given is accurate or if there are differences in him individually if he could explain them to me.

If it is true that you took a synopsis of AS and used it as a map of sorts, you did both of you a disservice. No one will match your synopsis. You have to talk with the Aspie to find out his feelings about all the areas that may be a problem. Only when you've done that will you know what you're dealing with. This is exactly how I would use it and what I meant above. I would use it as an outline and then ask my partner what traits he believes he has individually.

Why do you say that the Aspie needs to take your list of needs as fact? This is something that I personally take issue with, that is to say, a person relaying feelings as facts (This can take the form of "you are x, you do x, you think x".) When NTs do this, if the Aspie feels that the fact you stated is inaccurate he will tell you so. It may then happen that the Neurotypical's response is something similar to "Don't try to invalidate my feelings! They're mine and I'm entitled to them!" If other Aspies are like me this is very frustrating. Facts are facts and can be disputed. Feelings come from emotion and can only be changed if they were caused by misunderstanding or if circumstances that generated the feelings are changed. A statement of feeling should be started with "I feel..." A person has to own his or her feelings. By the way, this helps clear things up for the Aspie. Okay, back to the point. No, what I am saying here is that if I have a behavior trait of my own and I tell it to my AS partner, explain what it is, why it is, what to do when it happens, and when to do it I think my partner should accept that as fact. My partner argues with me and tells me why that behavior is wrong or doesn't make sense to him. He makes me go over it and over it. I have to justify what I am feeling and why. He cannot just accept it. I think if I am not out of line and it is just a part of me that it should be accepted and we move on. I do use I feel statements and I never begin with you dont statements. I always try to come from a healthy and loving place. I just want to not argue over every trait that he does not agree with.

Just like you can't begin to understand what goes on in the mind of a person with AS until you explore it, neither can you expect the Aspie to make heads or tails of your requests unless they're discussed and made as specific as possible. This may feel artificial to you, but if someone can't grasp a concept, it is unreasonable to expect him to know what kinds of actions will be meaningful to you. It is as though you are discussing changing the paint scheme in your home and you ask your friend his opinion about whether two certain colors complement one another, but this guy is totally color blind. He doesn't understand color, so he will never be able to answer the question. You can educate him so he can roughly match a certain shade of gray to what you tell him is red, but he'll never be able to discriminate between all the different shades of red much less be able to describe to you what he sees. I do disagree with this statement because even though I dont understand everything I read and hear about Aspie traits I ask my partner and see what he thinks applies to him and I give 110% in listening and applying what he says. So when I tell him about myself and the traits I have I expect him to try and understand and give 110% as well. There are times that I just have to do what he asks of me even though I may not understand why he is asking it of me. It is not my place to judge what he needs. So I feel he should do the same for me.

If as you say you can accept an explanation for behavior and are willing to honor a request such as "please get my attention and let me shift my focus" when you need to be heard, you are a rare breed. Do you have a sister who is just like you? I'm always willing to trade up Yes I am willing to accept an explanation. Maybe this sounds weird but I look at us as being from two different countries. His country has their own language, customs, behaviors etc. and so does my country. So I think if you want to be with someone from another country that you have to honor their country and all that comes with it. You have to learn the language, the behaviors, and whatever else is needed to be able to communicate and have a real loving healthy relationship. My partner has not had other women reciprocate his feelings so he does not appreciate my approach. It hurts me alot. I wish he realized that all women dont think like this and arent willing to do all this. It is very frustrating. I feel totally unappreciated and have thought alot about leaving the relationship. I work so hard and he acts totally disinterested in what I tell him about myself and my country. I am trying as hard as I can and giving it all I can. So I may also be interested in trading up;)

Working on a relationship is very much a two-way affair. If you have been led to believe that you're supposed to make all the concessions, you have been misled. There is a school of thought that the Aspies, being deficient, are the ones who need to learn how to act normally so as not to behave in a conspicuous manner. Both those approaches are wrong, unfair to one person or another, and are doomed to fail. Unfortunately this is my first experience dating an Aspie and he has led me to believe exactly what you have said. That I have to do everything he says and make all the concessions. He doesnt make me feel like I am special and what I say to him is important. I try several ways to approach him and I give examples and analogies and he says he will try to do it but he makes no effort. It makes me feel terribly sad, disappointed, and frustrated. Honestly, I am thinking about leaving the relationship because I dont think he appreciates me and he is not putting forth any effort.

I can't get past when you said above that if we meet an Neurotypical we like, we should just accept what they say and do it. If you met a man that you liked would you just accept whatever he said and change yourself? I doubt it. I would say that a person who does that probably suffers from some condition not mentioned in this forum. The person who expects change just by requesting it likely needs therapy also. I didnt mean to infer that if you meet a NT that you have to do everything they say. But I do feel if we are from different countries like I mentioned above there are some things that need to be accepted because they are part of that individual/country. I am not asking him to change anything about himself. I am just asking that he treat me a certain way or handle something differently because it is a trait I have. I would never ask someone to do something they are uncomfortable with or that is out of the line. I agree that it takes two people and both must compromise and both must accept things about the other. I believe that if one or both of the partners cannot do this then it is not a healthy relationship with mutual respect and the two people need to break up and move on and try to find someone who is willing to listen, compromise, and share in a healthy manner. I think asking an individual to change their basic core values or something out of line is not a healthy relationship. I think both people need to focus on the positives and not the negatives. If one partner has a problem with something I think if they need to sit down and speak in a calm manner and explain and let there be a healthy exchange so they will be able to move in a positive direction. If they cannot I would also consider writing my feelings down if that would help my partner. But if he still decided to disregard me and my feelings when I was honoring his I would make a decision to leave that relationship.
 
Maybe this sounds weird but I look at us as being from two different countries.


I need some clarification here. You do understand that two neurotypicals from different countries still function mentally in a very similar way, regardless of custom?
They may apply the same thought-pattern to different things, and from different perspectives, but the basic mental framework is very similar. If you take a baby from one country and raise them in another, they will take up their adopted countries custom with little to no difficulty. The same cannot be said of people on the spectrum. Our differences in thought and action are not 'customs' but are based on a different mental framework than a neurotypical person. We literally 'think differently'. Therefore this simile is inapplicable.

As for the rest, I feel that I am in no place to comment. I have had exactly one relationship in my life, and my then-partner said (much as you have) that I seemed completely disinterested, when nothing could have been father from the truth. As such, I don't feel qualified to comment, except to say that I do not understand why you stay in a relationship that makes you unhappy.
 
Hi Lizzy171002
Yes I realize what you are saying about the comparison I made to people from different countries. I agree that it is not the same but it was the closest example I could think of. But on the other hand there are customs and things down in other countries that I do not understand or agree with. So by using that example I was able to demonstrate how a person from one of those countries would not think or believe as I do therefore making communication difficult and compromise essential. My bf only found out he was AS 2-3 years ago and he is in his 40s so he had been trying to fit in and act like an NT all that time not knowing that he was an Aspie.

As far as your relationship experience, all experience matters. I do think my partner seems uninterested at times and we are trying to communicate better because he says the same thing you did. He says he is very interested. So we are learning what I need to do to get his attention and what he needs to do in order to act interested.

I stay in my relationship because we have not been together that long and we both want to give this a chance and a fair amount of time. As you said if I was in an NT and NT relationship I would not stay if I was unhappy. But my unhappiness in my current situation usually comes from lack of communication, something needs to be done or said differently, or just needs to be explained. If my needs are not met I will not stay in the relationship. But I am not to that point at this time.

Thank you for the questions and feedback

Also I am currently in a long distance relationship which makes things more difficult. He is looking to move where I am as soon as possible and we both agree we think that will help us tremendously.
 
Quoting further from the site: The Bottom Line

"There is no 13.
If there was, 13 it would be: give it up before you get involved. Trouble is: there is not enough truthful information out there to warn you about the condition in advance.

Anon 2013"

Just to put it simply - I am aghast at the negativity I saw on this list and on other pages on that site.

Here's a piece from the About Us:

"Neurotypicals are defined as having reached the normal developmental milestones which people achieve as they progress through life. Educationalists use these developmental stages as a basis for producing curriculum documents and making their classroom activities relevant to the ages and stages of their students. These developmental stages cover social, emotional, intellectual, biological and mental areas. They are well documented and completely accepted by science, medicine, law and education.

Autism Spectrum Disorders (including Asperger's Syndrome) are characterised (sic) by a failure to achieve many of these essential developmental milestones."

It's just angry site. A very angry site. As recently diagnosed I can say that the first, very first, thing I did was take a good look at those around me that might be effected. I have several long talks with my spouse and daily work on things. Within a month I went around the state visiting relatives and, without sharing the diagnosis, made a effort to let them know that I did care about them and apologized if they ever given a different impression. I am sure there are bad ASD folks just as there are bad NTs - but I don't see this list representing the great people I have met here on this site and elsewhere. I don't see it in the aspergers father I met today who daily struggles to provide and care for his nonverbal son further in the spectrum. Quite frankly it is hurtful to read angry sites like this. There are also angry blogs out there. Shame on them - for hating a group of people and not the particular person that hurt them. Shame on them for, from what I can tell, blaming a disorder on what might just not be a disorder alone but their own personal failings as well.

Life is difficult on the spectrum. It just is - and sites like this make it harder.

<edited to correct URL title - original author reused a page and left a wrong title>
 
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