Feeling shut out

[Dryope]

First off, let me say: I am not complaining and I am certainly not saying a moderator did anything wrong in any way. I have nothing but respect for moderators and the hard work they do. Please do not take any offense at this whatsoever. But I rarely allow myself to communicate as an aspie -- honest and focused on small things, filtering my emotions through my rational mind -- so please let me do so here, and please take it in that spirit.

This has to do with detail-oriented ASD thinking and site rules (though I am speaking for no one but myself, and not looking to change the rules or rehash anything).

Here is the deal:

I posted a ranty profile update today. I was fed up because the folks with ASD in my office always seem to stick to a plan and the NTs seem to ignore the plan and just do...whatever. It is always confusing and today I was just fed up and looking to vent.

I posted something off the cuff and what I saw as innocent. It doesn't matter what it was, because I don't want to repost it again and be offensive. The point is -- I don't see it as offensive. Again, I'm not blaming anyone here, certainly not the moderators. (Though it wouldn't hurt to have something similar to WP's dedicated forums for venting!)

Anyway -- the point is that I now doubt these things as they pertain to this site:
1. My ability to know where the line is as this site defines it.
2. My feeling of safety in expressing myself on this site without having to self-censor, as I must in all other communication in every other part of my life. (I'm not talking about freedom to say anything more than I have in my posts already, of course -- not looking to be profane or use four-letter words.)

I feel fake in all my communication with NTs. I am working to learn how to express myself and still be honest, but it's a challenge, because the social rules are inconsistent.

When the rules are inconsistent here -- to my eyes -- this site becomes a source of stress, not a place to turn to for solace. I've posted things that I thought had the potential to be offensive before -- and offered to take them down if they were -- but they were considered OK. Now I post something that seems childish and innocent ranting, but it's considered not OK.

I'm not asking anyone to change the rules, and I'm certainly not looking to rehash the posting. This is one case only. There are an infinite number of possibilities for future problems.

With ASD, I have to observe a large range of thing's parts before I can understand something. When something small happens that goes against my understood view, it means I have to start all over again. It means I got it wrong.

I know this is a small thing, but it disrupts my view of this site and my place in it. I had been considering becoming a member. Now I am thinking of never coming back.

I know that sounds harsh, but I am communicating honestly. Reconsidering this new information and how it pertains to my understanding of this site just takes up too much of my energy to figure out. I need to focus on other things in my life and to find another safe haven.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. I don't want an apology, because I don't think the moderator did anything wrong. And I don't want to change the rules, because this is a community that welcomed me and I didn't write the rules in the first place. And I definitely don't want to go over what I posted and what is/is not OK with it -- because that will just make me feel terrible and confused and I'll still have to go through that long observation period to collect a lot more data before I feel like I understand it all anyway.

I think I just want to let the folks the run the site know that there is...something...here that connects my detail-oriented thinking and having a problem with this kind of "you know it when you see it" rule. I've heard folks on WP express the same concern -- being afraid to post because they don't know what's considered rude, what's acceptable, what's supportive. From the reading I've done in the literature, as well, it seems that it's a least a normal problem for folks on the spectrum to have. For me, it's a call to relearn the rules and master it so that the problem won't occur again (an urge from years of rejection from society growing up) -- so, while others may protect themselves by just going into silent mode and lurking, my instinct is to protect myself by gaining understanding. So I feel shut out, and that's partly due to just my own way of understanding the world but also partly -- if I'm right about this -- something inherent to being on the spectrum.

Anyway, I usually slip out and am never heard from again when this kind of thing happens, and I felt that was unfair. So I'm communicating honestly in my own way, and I hope no one will take offense or view this as complaining. It's just an explanation.

I'll respond to any alerts I get to my recent posts, and then I'll likely delete my account. Sorry if that seems dramatic -- no drama is intended, just honesty.

 

[Suzanne]

I do get you! You mean you do not wish to offend, but you need to say how it is and yet fear the risk of being taken the wrong way?

I have been using this site since Dec and have one answer removed, but I have been using forums on and off for some years, and get used to these actions; feel angry at the time but then calm down and get on with things.

If your rant was about NT's then it is a VERY fine line you are crossing; because NT's are allowed on here, to gain support and understanding, on how to be the best or just get on with their aspie partners. So in an effort to remain unbiased, any perceived rants against NT's are taken a red flag.

Rules need to be in place, because then, anything goes and soon, a complete shut down. So it is best to read the rules before posting something on here that is controversial. Like for example: I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses but if I post thread preaching then it would not be surprised if my thread was removed! And so forth.

 

[tree]

Dryope
Speaking of small things:
"(...it wouldn't hurt to have something similar to WP's dedicated forums for venting!)"
There is a Ranting Room.

Deleting account isn't done.
When a person leaves AC, the account remains. The person goes, the words stay.

I didn't see your remark or the incident over which you are grieved.

 

[Progster]

I think it's up to the moderator to explain why the post was removed - it's difficult to comment without having seen the comment that was removed, but it could be that there was a rule that you weren't aware of such as not ranting against NTs as Suzanne suggested, or it could be that the moderator was being a bit heavy-handed in this case. It's often the case that it isn't clear just how a rule should be interpreted. If there is a rule against making direct insults, or against offensive remarks, then how does one determine what is insulting and what isn't? It's a matter of interpretation. I just don't know. I wouldn't make any hasty decisions, I would leave it a couple of days, and then see how you feel about continuing on the forum. I hope that you continue to post

 

[Dryope]

Hm...I don't think I'm explaining myself well.

The moderator is not at fault. I am. I am not defending myself at all.

I clearly don't understand the rules. If I stay, I will hyperfocus on understanding them. I will spend hours reading posts here, writing lists, devising schema, and altogether becoming the master of understanding the rules. Because clearly my doing that already wasn't enough. I will do more.

I am an adult woman. I have a job, things I like to do instead. I can't afford to expend energy on learning this system.

I think most people on the spectrum feel the need to learn a new social group slowly, to observe. I just get more obsessed than some others. Knowing myself, I should withdraw.

It's OK if my account stays up -- it doesn't bother me. I didn't see the ranting room before, thanks. Good to know.

 

[metalminx24]

I'm sad that you feel shut out. I know that grey areas can be difficult to navigate. I hope you see that although there can be difficulties with being part of a forum, there are also people here for you. Feel happier.

 

[Dryope]

Thanks! But I'm not unhappy. I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to explain how my bottom-up thinking complicates this.

I'm sorry for causing a ruckus. I have failed to communicate again somehow. I use words that seem clear, but somehow everyone has a different idea than what I'm trying to convey. Since I'm the only one consistent in all this, I assume this is my fault. I am not being passive aggressive or looking for attention or anything. I am just stating what I observe.

Anyway, thanks very much for all the kind thoughts. Again, I agree the moderator acted appropriately, I agree this is such a minor thing that it's worth no one's attention, and I agree that everyone here is lovely and supportive.

 

[Judge]

Thanks! But I'm not unhappy. I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to explain how my bottom-up thinking complicates this.

I'm sorry for causing a ruckus. I have failed to communicate again somehow. I use words that seem clear, but somehow everyone has a different idea than what I'm trying to convey. Since I'm the only one consistent in all this, I assume this is my fault. I am not being passive aggressive or looking for attention or anything. I am just stating what I observe.

Anyway, thanks very much for all the kind thoughts. Again, I agree the moderator acted appropriately, I agree this is such a minor thing that it's worth no one's attention, and I agree that everyone here is lovely and supportive.

I suspect most of us get what you are saying. For me it's sarcasm that I have great difficulty processing at times. But I don't realistically expect anyone to accommodate me to any extent either. It's where I just have to "roll with the punches" the best I can, understanding that while so many of us are on the same spectrum, our traits and behaviors occupy different points of it.

However without real structure here, this would be just another online slaughterhouse with flame wars abounding. They do sincerely try very hard to avoid that here, with ultimately only the best of intentions. It keeps this place's intended atmosphere as a legitimate support network.

 

[Dryope]

Thanks for your note. Yes, I 100% support the rules and the moderators' actions.

 

[Mia]

Dryope, I think sometimes when things do happen as in the deleting of posts. It sets off a sort of reaction for me as if I've done something really 'wrong'. But very often I don't quite understand what it might be that I've done to warrant it. My intentions are usually good, helpful, understanding. The way I think of myself is not as someone who offends or intentionally tries to hurt anyone, and when I do inadvertently I would want to know why exactly, how exactly I caused a problem. Explaining is something I really need. To fix those 'blind spots' that I may be unaware of.

Please don't leave, maybe take a break and a big breath at the same time. It's important that you be here to learn and to understand and to teach. Besides if you did, I would miss you and your insight.

 

[wyverary]

It is perfectly okay, even encouraged, to ask for clarification of a moderator. None of us are out to "punish" anybody for a slip-up and we are open to hearing your concerns, as we are human beings as well. If it turns into a dispute, then the rules state that the user's concern be brought to our admin (Brent )

 

[Dryope]

It is perfectly okay, even encouraged, to ask for clarification of a moderator. None of us are out to "punish" anybody for a slip-up and we are open to hearing your concerns, as we are human beings as well. If it turns into a dispute, then the rules state that the user's concern be brought to our admin (Brent )

Of course. Though the moderator was 100% correct, of course!

 

[SignOfLazarus]

Anyway -- the point is that I now doubt these things as they pertain to this site:
1. My ability to know where the line is as this site defines it.
2. My feeling of safety in expressing myself on this site without having to self-censor, as I must in all other communication in every other part of my life. (I'm not talking about freedom to say anything more than I have in my posts already, of course -- not looking to be profane or use four-letter words.)

I have to say I feel similar. I feel what contributes to this situation is lack of communication at times/ investigating meaning.

I feel that could be improved upon.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I feel fake in all my communication with NTs. I am working to learn how to express myself and still be honest, but it's a challenge, because the social rules are inconsistent.

When the rules are inconsistent here -- to my eyes -- this site becomes a source of stress, not a place to turn to for solace. I've posted things that I thought had the potential to be offensive before -- and offered to take them down if they were -- but they were considered OK. Now I post something that seems childish and innocent ranting, but it's considered not OK.

I understand what you're saying. I don't think the thing you originally posted was actually that bad-as you said, it was "childish and innocent ranting."
It was also not that big of a thing.
There is sometimes an inconsistency on this site, in that some things which are worse-which are closer to aspie supremacism, etc, have been published and not removed.
I will explain some those things from my personal perspective as a moderator. I can't speak with certainty for all moderators, but can only share my experience.
1) Here is one scenario that causes inconsistency: This is a busy site, and there is a lot going on. I am unable to read all the new posts, and a lot gets written without me noticing. Sometimes when I will notice that something iffy was written-I notice it a while after the fact. By this point, if it is a thread, lots of other people have written replies. And over and over again, the replies and later posts rebuff any nastiness in the original post. For the sake of those good replies and good later posts, I leave the thread/original post up, because those later good posts would also be destroyed or would no longer make sense if I removed the first stuff.
2) Us moderators are different human beings with different styles. We have to make judgement calls on things. This means that sometimes one moderator will make one judgement about something, and a different moderator will make a different judgement about a similar thing. This is what comes of having a site moderated by a team of human beings.
3) Sometimes a post can be interpreted in different ways. Someone might read it and think the meaning is one thing, someone else might read it and think the meaning is something slightly different. This was part of what happened in the case of your post. Now that you have explained about the office situation that it was a reference to, it makes more sense. However, someone who didn't know about that context might read it and think it was a universal condemnation of all NTs.
And, it wasn't that bad of a post. Don't beat yourself up too hard for it.
You are definitely not in trouble for it, and you weren't in danger of getting in trouble for it.

I hope that this won't cause you to not want to be on this site. We have enjoyed your presence here. We are imperfect, but this is still a good place.
I think this situation is really more of an example of how iffy it is to be human, of how confusing it is to deal and communicate with with other humans-even those who share a similar neurological composition. Such is life.

 

[Harrison]

I have to say I feel similar. I feel what contributes to this situation is lack of communication at times/ investigating meaning.

I feel that could be improved upon.

Hi SoL, I'd be interested in hearing how those improvements can be made.

The rules of the site are, in my view, unambiguous and straightforward enough that I can understand them. I say this because I am rubbish at understanding rules, I have to have it spelt out in easy to grasp english. Legal documents leave me feeling stupid.

There are, however, two ways I function here as a mod.

I can advise, usually when something is getting close to the line and I might think it is starting to get out of hand. In those cases I am simply asking people to to refrain from the course they are on. It is these moments, which are few, that can bring up "but I didn't mean it that way". Now, if one of the considerations here is that we, as mods, need more definition or clarity, then I can only ask the same in return. The onus for clarifying intent lies with the original post, if you fail to state the reference for your actions then we have to base our response on what we read. Telling us after the event isn't grounds for saying we are interpreting the rules in a woolly fashion.

The other case is where there is no other way to read the post except as a breach of the rules and 99% of the time we, as mods, will discuss privately as to what should be done. The other 1% covers things like spamming the site etc which we usually deal with as and when it arises.

I agree with everything Ste11aeres has said, not because I am a mod but because it's correct.

 

[SignOfLazarus]

Hi SoL, I'd be interested in hearing how those improvements can be made.

Example:

Telling us after the event isn't grounds for saying we are interpreting the rules in a woolly fashion.

What specifically is this a response to? I can't really comment on what you've said until i know that.

I will say though, that your post makes me feel I've offended somehow, but not sure how.

 

[Harrison]

I feel that could be improved upon.

^^This^^

I wasn't offended by what you said, just interested in knowing what you think the improvements could be

What specifically is this a response to? I can't really comment on what you've said until i know that.

Was in reference to the original post where intent was stated after the fact e.g. what I said wasn't about people here but about people elsewhere. Unless that is made apparent in the post it can be interpreted in other ways.