Aspie Conversations

[DC1346]

I self diagnosed as an aspie last year and received a clinical confirmation last April.

I am employed as the chef instructor of a rural high school's Culinary Arts program and at the start of the school year, I met another aspie teacher who works in special ed.

I have been somewhat frustrated in my efforts to communicate with this woman and was wondering if the experiences I'm about to describe are typical.

Example 1: We were at a high school assembly and the teacher in question had forgotten to print out the principal's revised schedule. Towards the end of the assembly, she approached me to ask where she was supposed to take her students after the program ended.

"You'll be going to third period."

She nodded. "So I'll see you tomorrow and I'll take them to art."

"No," I said, "You'll bring them to Culinary Arts. Your kids have me for third period."

"Right! So I'll take them to art."

Since the teacher in question is a small woman, I crouched slightly and forced myself to make eye contact. "You're not hearing me. Third period will be held after the assembly. Your students are coming to Culinary Arts."

I saw something click inside her eyes. "Oh Culinary Arts!" she exclaimed. "Of course!"

And of course things being what they are, the assembly ran over and we wound up having to go to 4th period instead.

"You told me 3rd period!" she grumbled after she came to my room with her kids.

(sigh)

Example 2: Yesterday my 3rd period class produced strawberry empanadas. Empanadas are a type of tart made with pie crust that's cut into small rounds. The rounds are topped with a filling and folded over. The edges are crimped with a fork and the pastries are baked. The ones we made were heavily dusted with powdered sugar after they came out of the oven.

The aspie teacher came to me and said, "Chef I need a bag."

I offered her a small zip lock bag.

"No, no ... I need a bag. It's to put the cookies in."

I offered her a larger zip lock bag.

"No, no ... a bag. I need a bag."

I held the smaller zip lock bag in one hand and the larger one in my other hand. I held up the bags. "These are the only bags we have for food storage."

"A bag, I need a bag for the cookies."

I could not understand why my colleague was so frustrated. She had told me that she needed bags to put the cookies in. I only had two sizes of zip lock bags. Why was she getting upset?

"I'm sorry," I said, "But I don't understand what you want."

"A bag!" she insisted, "A BAG!"

I shook my head. "I need more information."

The bell rang and she abruptly left without saying goodbye. I think she was annoyed.

She picked up a stack of foam plates covered with plastic wrap and headed out the door ... and the moment I saw her with the foam plates, I abruptly realized that she had wanted a GROCERY BAG.

I don't know why she couldn't have articulated this. The woman is quite intelligent. She has a Ph.D. and as an aspie, she must have had normal language development. I don't understand why she kept repeating the word "bag" instead of elaborating her needs by telling me that she needed a way of carrying several plates of cookies back to her room. I would have given her a grocery bag or a cardboard box.

(double sigh)

So ... is this type of conversation typical for aspies?

I now find myself wondering if I'm equally annoying to NTs when I talk to them.

 

[Progster]

That second one was particulary confusing. She said that she wanted a bag for cookies, but in fact wanted one for foam plates. The communication failure was on her part, not yours. You were offering the right bag according to the information she gave you.

 

[Ste11aeres]

She does seem to have a bit of difficulty with language, but I don't think her particular style of linguistic confusion is an Aspergers trait.

 

[DC1346]

Yes, I hear what both of you are saying ... but her frustration was also my frustration. I could see that she was having problems but I didn't know how to resolve them ... and because my reply was based upon her "I need to put cookies in a bag" comment, I was fixated on food storage bags. It didn't occur to me that she might have several plates of cookies ... one for each of her students and one for herself.

Now that I think about it ... I wonder why she felt compelled to carry all of these cookies. Her kids are emotionally disturbed, not handicapped. Why couldn't they carry the cookies?

How odd.

There are times when she seems very autisic ... (such as the communication problem) ... but there are also times when she doesn't. I mean, geez ... she works with special ed kids with anger management issues. I've seen them ignore her, walk away from her, and talk back to her. One of her boys was suspended for two days after he reportedly had a screaming fit. Another kid is reportedly now in the custody of juvenile detention.

Being a special ed teacher with those types of kids has GOT to be very stressful.

I could not do what she does. I don't know how she handles it.

I think my communication skills are better than hers ... but she seems to have a far thicker skin. I was at an IEP (individual education plan) meeting that was being held with a parent and one of her kids. The special education coordinator was very unprofessional. My aspie colleague had apparently filled out the wrong forms and coordinator went on a raging snit IN FRONT OF YOURS TRULY, THE PARENT, AND THE CHILD.

"You've wasted the point of this meeting!" raged the coordinator. "The documents are wrong, completely wrong!"

"I'm sorry," said my colleague. "Perhaps you could tell me what I could do to fix it?"

"YOU NEVER LISTEN TO ME! NEVER!"

And the thing that bugs me about all of this other than the woman's unprofessional conduct was that the kid she was ranting in front of has severe anger management issues. Ranting in front of this kid was scarcely appropriate. The next time this kid has anger issues, she could very well dredge up the experience of the IEP meeting ... that "other people" don't seem to keep their cool and that school officials may apparently lose their temper and yell and scream without consequence (which is admittedly a totally hypocritical double standard) that this special ed coordinator has now inadvertently established.

BTW - I filed a complaint with the principal regarding this woman's behavior. The principal talked to the special education teacher who downplayed what happened because she doesn't want to "rock" the proverbial boat particularly since she has to work with this other person.

I do not understand her forbearance. I would have pressed forward with a complaint and requested reasonable accommodation under the ADA statutes.

So in some respects, the special education teacher has stronger autistic traits than I do and in other respects she's stronger than I am and seems to have stronger coping mechanisms than I do.

I am finding this all to be quite interesting because it's really driving home the point that just because we both have Asperger's does not mean that we will respond the same way to a given situation. Although we share common symptoms, we are not peas in a pod and are both quite different.

 

[DC1346]

She does seem to have a bit of difficulty with language, but I don't think her particular style of linguistic confusion is an Aspergers trait.

Good point. She is supposed to have Asperger's syndrome but that would mean that she had normal language development. That's part of the reason I started this thread. She's the first other Aspie I've ever known ... so I was wondering if such communication problems are common.

Come to think of it, I don't know if she was clinically diagnosed. I assumed she had been because she's got a Ph.D in special education, so I presumed that she of all people would realize the importance of confirming a self diagnosis.

I don't actually know whether she self diagnosed and had this confirmed or if she has a clinical diagnosis.

I haven't wanted to ask. I really don't like asking personal questions of people because that's well outside my comfort level and the coverage I have from my scripts. To avoid inadvertently offending someone, I stick to work related topics and am guided in my interactions with BEST teaching practices, the state instructional standards, district policy, and school rules. All of these documents have helped me to create parameters ... and I can do my job and teach and even deal with student disciplinary issues as long as I stay within these parameters.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Yes, I hear what both of you are saying ... but her frustration was also my frustration. I could see that she was having problems but I didn't know how to resolve them ... and because my reply was based upon her "I need to put cookies in a bag" comment, I was fixated on food storage bags. It didn't occur to me that she might have several plates of cookies ... one for each of her students and one for herself.

Now that I think about it ... I wonder why she felt compelled to carry all of these cookies. Her kids are emotionally disturbed, not handicapped. Why couldn't they carry the cookies?

How odd.

There are times when she seems very autisic ... (such as the communication problem) ... but there are also times when she doesn't. I mean, geez ... she works with special ed kids with anger management issues. I've seen them ignore her, walk away from her, and talk back to her. One of her boys was suspended for two days after he reportedly had a screaming fit. Another kid is reportedly now in the custody of juvenile detention.

Being a special ed teacher with those types of kids has GOT to be very stressful.

I could not do what she does. I don't know how she handles it.

I think my communication skills are better than hers ... but she seems to have a far thicker skin. I was at an IEP (individual education plan) meeting that was being held with a parent and one of her kids. The special education coordinator was very unprofessional. My aspie colleague had apparently filled out the wrong forms and coordinator went on a raging snit IN FRONT OF YOURS TRULY, THE PARENT, AND THE CHILD.

"You've wasted the point of this meeting!" raged the coordinator. "The documents are wrong, completely wrong!"

"I'm sorry," said my colleague. "Perhaps you could tell me what I could do to fix it?"

"YOU NEVER LISTEN TO ME! NEVER!"

And the thing that bugs me about all of this other than the woman's unprofessional conduct was that the kid she was ranting in front of has severe anger management issues. Ranting in front of this kid was scarcely appropriate. The next time this kid has anger issues, she could very well dredge up the experience of the IEP meeting ... that "other people" don't seem to keep their cool and that school officials may apparently lose their temper and yell and scream without consequence (which is admittedly a totally hypocritical double standard) that this special ed coordinator has now inadvertently established.

BTW - I filed a complaint with the principal regarding this woman's behavior. The principal talked to the special education teacher who downplayed what happened because she doesn't want to "rock" the proverbial boat particularly since she has to work with this other person.

I do not understand her forbearance. I would have pressed forward with a complaint and requested reasonable accommodation under the ADA statutes.

So in some respects, the special education teacher has stronger autistic traits than I do and in other respects she's stronger than I am and seems to have stronger coping mechanisms than I do.

I am finding this all to be quite interesting because it's really driving home the point that just because we both have Asperger's does not mean that we will respond the same way to a given situation. Although we share common symptoms, we are not peas in a pod and are both quite different.

I don't think that Aspergers is something which specifies whether someone will react emotionally or calmly. I think that in this, as with so many things, people with Aspergers seem to fall into extremes, but not always into the same extreme. This is similar to how two persons with Aspergers might have sensory issues, but one person is hypersensitive to a certain sensory stimulus, while another person with Aspergers is hyposensitive to that same type of sensory stimulus. Likewise with emotions, I've observed some persons with Aspergers showing extreme emotional reactions, and others showing pretty much no emotional reaction. (Or the same person might respond differently at different times).

 

[Suzanne]

It is so difficult, because I tend to be like the aspie teacher and I am not educated!

Maybe, I need to read the first part again, because you did say 3rd or are you saying, because of the lack of communication, your conversation went over and thus, missed the 3rd and she blamed you?

My husband is often moaning that I do not say what I mean and it is not deliberate; I really find I have brain fog on a word and so, just repeat with trying to show by action what I mean.

Funny enough, I immediately thought of a carry bag and so, if there was not one around, I would have said that there are only these two zip bags; will they do?

Shows that just because we are aspie's, does not mean we understand all aspie behavior!

If someone who is taller than me, crouched down and said: you are not hearing me, I would see that as threatening!

I hate to say this, but I think you need to look at your behaviour here; rather than hers!

 

[DC1346]

I hate to say this, but I think you need to look at your behaviour here; rather than hers!

This wasn't a thread about assigning blame. I was asking if this was a typical aspie to aspie conversation ... but since you brought this up, you are blaming me for her not listening and me again for not understanding her poorly phrased request for a bag?

I'm rather hurt.

 

[Suzanne]

This wasn't a thread about assigning blame. I was asking if this was a typical aspie to aspie conversation ... but since you brought this up, you are blaming me for her not listening and me again for not understanding her poorly phrased request for a bag?

I'm rather hurt.

I am truly sorry for upsetting you! But the trouble is, and perhaps you are unaware of it, but it did come across, at least to me, that you were putting this other aspie down!

Could you not have asked her what type of bag she was referring to? I mean: where the contents more than the two zip up bags?

I am not blaming you at all!

Just because we are aspie's, does not mean that we are perfect lol

 

[DC1346]

I am truly sorry for upsetting you! But the trouble is, and perhaps you are unaware of it, but it did come across, at least to me, that you were putting this other aspie down!

Could you not have asked her what type of bag she was referring to?

How did I put her down? She asked me a question about where to go after the assembly but kept mishearing the answer.

If she could not articulate her request for bags, why is this my fault?

Why did you apologize and then resume attacking me? What is wrong with you?

I am so done with this forum. I did not come here to be attacked.

 

[Suzanne]

How did I put her down? She asked me a question about where to go after the assembly but kept mishearing the answer.

If she could not articulate her request for bags, why is this my fault?

Why are you attacking me?

I am done with this forum.

No, it is not your fault, but it is not her fault either!

I am not attacking you I am truly sorry if that is how it feels, because it is just not my intention. What I am doing is seeing it from her side, from your description. You say she is an aspie, and thus, those are her areas of difficulties. I feel sure that you would appreciate others trying to work with you, in areas that you find difficult?

It seems to me, she was panicking because she forgot the information and I know when I panic, I am a complete mess and if someone met me for the first time, they would ascertain that I am an airhead! She obviously felt out of control and just could not grasp what you were telling her and then, to cap it all, she missed the class and it fell back on you.

In these two areas, you are the stronger of the two and thus, are able to compensate for her lack.

 

[Mia]

Most are not blaming you DC, absolutely not. Suspect that your colleague may have some early signs of Alzheimer's making it difficult to find the right word. You did nothing wrong, and no one is to blame.

Please don't leave, I've really enjoyed your posts, they are a breath of fresh air.

The blocking option for posts is always available.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I usually start waving my hands in the air like a possessed puppeteer when I can't verbally describe what I'm after. My bad sign language would probably end up in a 30 gallon trash bag. And I wouldn't be quick to amend it because think of all the cookies I could carry in a bag that big!

Sometimes I'm a wee slow like in the first example and I'll blip over a word here and there, like "culinary" in culinary arts. But I do try to apologize for it when I notice I'm having a glitchy day.

 

[DC1346]

In these two areas, you are the stronger of the two and thus, are able to compensate for her lack.

You presume too much.

I was going to quit this site but within the last 24 hours, 3 people have asked me not to leave and to simply block you.

I will not stoop to making a personal attack of my own. I will simply follow the advice I was given and block you.

 

[Beverly]

I tend to have one word for an item, or a single phrase for an item, it's ALWAYS that word for that item PERIOD. If I need that item, I ask for it and, then, get frustrated if whomever I ask doesn't know what item I mean. I don't have another word for it, it's what it is period.

Zippy bag
Sack
Cold sack
paper bag
Wal mart bag
Trash bag

those are my sacks or bags and they are what they are, if someone doesn't get it, I get frustrated because each means only one thing to me. I don't have other words for them, call them something else and I will keep asking what you mean until you give me the right word. Perhaps the one needing a bag was like that, to her bag meant only one thing and, she doesn't have another word for it.

 

[Nisk]

I almost always referred to my garage as a shed even though my ex would actually get angry about it.

 

[clg114]

You presume too much.

I was going to quit this site but within the last 24 hours, 3 people have asked me not to leave and to simply block you.

I will not stoop to making a personal attack of my own. I will simply follow the advice I was given and block you.

I think that the basis of this thread is simple. Everybody is different. Miscommunication happens a lot. With just a little effort things can be worked out.

You probably should not take a disagreement as a personal attack. That just makes it harder on you. Take it easy and enjoy yourself.

By the way, I commend you for being a educator. Molding the minds of young people is a very noble calling.

 

[Beverly]

I almost always referred to my garage as a shed even though my ex would actually get angry about it.

I'm the same with buildings too. I have a shop, barn, garage and, shed and, don't you dare call them the wrong thing.

 

[Nisk]

I'm the same with buildings too. I have a shop, barn, garage and, shed and, don't you dare call them the wrong thing.

Oh so it's a women thing not an aspie thing is what your trying to say?

 

[Beverly]

Oh so it's a women thing not an aspie thing is what your trying to say?

Maybe it's a woman Aspie thing.