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Asperger types are not autistic

R

radasp

Well-Known Member
I've done a lot of research on Asperger's being lumped in with autism and the only commonality I can see is lack of socialization, and even that, I believe, has a different source; as an Aspie I just get fed up with social interaction being so infantile, boring and aggressive. I hate drama and the religious / superstition that social typicals rely on.

Each time I put this "out there" I get attacked by autistic people who seem to also love drama. They can't get past some notion that the only reason I don't believe Asperger's is autism is because I hate them. This is ridiculous.

Any thoughts?
 
I'm quite sure if you provide people with some actual sources you used and bring up proper arguments people will find your side a lot more credible.

The way you put it now, I'm not surprised people aren't agreeing with you.
 
No idea why you get irrational responses. Maybe you are only discussing this with people who love drama. I think the sources of your contention might be quite relevant to the irrational responses. Then again, maybe not.
 
Let's try an analogy: Why would people who play soccer insist that tennis is a form of soccer and get upset if you say it isn't?
 
radasp said:
Let's try an analogy: Why would people who play soccer insist that tennis is a form of soccer and get upset if you say it isn't?
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One analogy requires another.

If an official regulatory body of sports professionals standardized tennis as a form of soccer with government acknowledgment, I can imagine a great deal of people who would both insist and rely on such a thing. Most people depend on some modicum of order and uniformity- regardless of their neurological profile. Granted that such processes and the standards they create are likely flawed to varying degrees, however they still serve as an official standard. (We discuss such standards of the DSM-V and their potential flaws in this forum).

Unless you have an equivalent background in sports, it may put your credibility at risk at the outset in contradicting such known and accepted standards. Granted you personally may not accept such standards. That's your prerogative. But others may not share your sentiments based on professionally established standards.

Outside of such analogies, in my own case, I have questions and concerns about the DSM-V reclassifying Aspergers Syndrome to Autism Spectrum Disorder. However I also acknowledge that I have neither a degree in medicine or neurology. I'm not an expert enough in this subject to evoke an emotional response myself. However in various posts elsewhere many of us have elaborated our concerns of the DSM-V reclassifying Aspergers Syndrome.

Perhaps most importantly, it may depend on how well or how poorly you bring up such a subject. If you imply at the outset that someone is imagining their condition, in this instance you may be setting yourself up for trouble. I'd think most anyone would get abruptly defensive about that- if it was actually interpreted that way. It all comes down to how you verbally approach such a subject in real-time. A task which may be inherently difficult for many Aspies. In my own case I can communicate reasonably well in text...but verbally is another matter at times.
 
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radasp said:
I didn't post this to try to prove my contention, only to ask why the irrational response.
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King Oni's response was a partial answer to that question.
A. They don't believe you.
B. People sometimes give a bit of an "irrational response" in regards to ideas that they don't believe.
C. Your way of wording the posts in this thread sounds a bit antagonistic. Antagonism breeds antagonism.
 
radasp said:
Each time I put this "out there" I get attacked by autistic people who seem to also love drama. They can't get past some notion that the only reason I don't believe Asperger's is autism is because I hate them. This is ridiculous.
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It's not ridiculous. There are a number of aspies out there who do just that, and insist that Asperger's is a special, intellectually superior condition, while autism is a disabling disease--which is discrimination against people with classic autism, not to mention elitist, and yes, hateful. You can imagine how anyone who did that, regardless of the psychological evidence (which is, in fact, in favor of a broad and diverse spectrum, not two separate 'aspie' and 'autie' categories), would provoke some ire.
 
royinpink said:
It's not ridiculous. There are a number of aspies out there who do just that, and insist that Asperger's is a special, intellectually superior condition, while autism is a disabling disease--which is discrimination against people with classic autism, not to mention elitist, and yes, hateful. You can imagine how anyone who did that, regardless of the psychological evidence (which is, in fact, in favor of a broad and diverse spectrum, not two separate 'aspie' and 'autie' categories), would provoke some ire.
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Even if you don't do that, people might mistakenly think that you do that, due to the fact that it is what a lot of other people do.
 
I get the same every time I try to point out that American football is not football. They use their hands, dammit.

You seem to be generalizing from one example.

Besides, there is at least one person with classical autism on this forum, and the only reason I know is that they wrote it in a post.
 
radasp said:
I've done a lot of research on Asperger's being lumped in with autism and the only commonality I can see is lack of socialization, and even that, I believe, has a different source; as an Aspie I just get fed up with social interaction being so infantile, boring and aggressive. I hate drama and the religious / superstition that social typicals rely on.

Each time I put this "out there" I get attacked by autistic people who seem to also love drama. They can't get past some notion that the only reason I don't believe Asperger's is autism is because I hate them. This is ridiculous.

Any thoughts?
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May I clarify your request: what do you mean by 'autistic people who seem to also love drama' (English isn't my native language). Do you mean they like to watch drama serials and take part in religion movements?

If so, I can tell for myself: I was fascinated from early childhood with bright emotional reactions of TV heroes, I envied them feeling that way - because my own feelings were different: I got confused, scared or interested and that was the most part of my emotional spectrum back then.
So human emotions were the thing I got interested in for decades: how can they do that? How can I learn to do that as them?
Back then I wouldn't understand your post - but then I wasn't even aware why I'm so different from other children.
Now if I see a person taken with someone's emotional expressions - I think that maybe they are just fascinated as well as I was.
It seemes natural to me - to feel interest in something I don't understand.
And moreso if the people around expect me to show these emotional reactions I can't produce - it's quite logical to think of myself being inferior because of my inability to express my feelings appropriately and keep on admiring the people who can show their feelings as normal people are supposed to.
 
radasp said:
I've done a lot of research on Asperger's being lumped in with autism and the only commonality I can see is lack of socialization, and even that, I believe, has a different source; as an Aspie I just get fed up with social interaction being so infantile, boring and aggressive. I hate drama and the religious / superstition that social typicals rely on.

Each time I put this "out there" I get attacked by autistic people who seem to also love drama. They can't get past some notion that the only reason I don't believe Asperger's is autism is because I hate them. This is ridiculous.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Here are my thoughts on your post. I am disagreeing with you, but I am not attacking you. The easiest way for me to look at this is to look at myself. I have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome under the DSM-4. The autistic symptoms that I have are as follows:

1. Lack of socialization.
2. Stimulus overload.
3. Ability to focus on subjects that have my interest.
4. Clumsy.
5.Need for routine.
6.Inborn sense of principles.
7.The inability to understand non-verbal communication.

As I see it, the only difference between me and a person with classic autism is the lack of impairment in the cognitive and linguistic areas. That is, by definition, the difference between AS and classic autism. Of course, how these symptoms affect someone depends on where they are on the spectrum.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are attacking you or like drama. I dislike all of socially driven priorities that "most people" have, just like you. But I do believe that you are wrong about this. Maybe a little more research is in order.
 
I agree with cig114 and share the same autistic symptoms that he does. There are days I can pass for almost normal, then we have majority of the day when I am a mess most of the day. I add to his list that I do stim when stressed or in pain, need a weighted blanket to sleep properly and my special interests are very narrow and I am constantly obesessing over them. I am also professionaly diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome under the DSM-4. The biggest difference, according to my therapist, between AS and ASD under the DSM-4 was the lack of a speech delay as a child. While I started talking normaly, most of my other symptoms were present from a very early age, including my obsessive interest in trains both real and model. Mike
 
These aren't commonalities? Impressive hyperfocus, beautiful passions known as special interests, stimming, meltdowns, shutdowns, dyspraxia, strong sensory sensitivities, scripting, challenges with central coherence, motor-planning, executive function, eye contact, as well as non-verbal shutdowns, the ability to find the needle long before ever seeing the haystack, echolalia, delight in routine, etc.?
Not all Aspies nor all Auties have each of these characteristics/tendencies, we're all individuals.
Verbals skills are simply that-- verbal skills. The chattiest, smartest Aspie may still need to stim to self-regulate, and be able to hyperfocus. Remember, many autistics are phenomenally brilliant and love a good gabfest. ;) "Un-standardized" minds simply do not shine in standardized tests.
Aspie neurology is autistic neurology. It's a spectrum, and it isn't a linear spectrum, but rather a 3-D spectrum.
Further, challenges in anyone's functioning ability will vary according to situation, health, other factors, and those of us with ASD are no different in that regard.

My official diagnosis reads "Infantile Autism-- Active." (It also says ASD in the paperwork) The label isn't as important as understanding, and recognizing commonalities, so that we can support one another here.

When someone wants to insist on seperateness from someone with autism, it seems that they are missing out on recognizing an autistic's personhood. :sunflower:

Understanding that we are all in this together allows us to support and encourage each other. Being divisive does not.

I feel lucky that autism exists as a spectrum condition, as we all use our varied strengths here in support of each other. :)
 
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There isn't any difference in the symptoms between a person with Asperger's and a person with classic autism, apart from speech development, but there may be differences in severity. For example, I don't have such severe sensory issues as those often experienced by people with classic autism, but some other traits I have very similar. Many aspies talk a lot, but I don't talk much at all, and that's one thing I don't have in common with other aspies. As said previously, it's a spectrum that we are all on, and those with classic autism tend to have more severe symptoms, especially sensory issues, which affect their daily living to a greater extent.
 
What is the point of the struggle over labels? We are each and all individuals. Most differences are required because of budgets available from different organisations which enforces a decision as to whether we are allowed to participate in one scheme, funded by one organisation, or another scheme etc.

What is more important however is that we agree upon terms to describe the awful difficulty we have in flourishing in our lives in a competitive society that is designed to favour the "Neurotypical" population.

It is vital we do agree among ourselves what and how these terms should apply. Terms to accurately describe to the Neurotypical society our lives, our struggle, our points of view but ultimately to provide a palpable unified voice that represents our "Community" and the experiences of our community. Finally we do have a right to claim a great deal of financial support from the UN as an endangered culture where the jobs surrounding our community have all been taken by non-Autistic people with little or no understanding of our pain and anguish caused by exactly this situation. A situation where we struggle to find success in work.

In fact many of us struggle to find work of any kind. Where our experience of discrimination drives us into isolation and all the difficulties you may imagine that brings. It should not be offloaded onto any of us that we suffer "mental health issues". We honestly portray the way we are treated by a society that even today treats us as less than human, 2nd class, 2nd to last place.

I don't think we should feel at a loss by this except that we do care because we are not in the game of competing. We are a community of people with Autism. We are each of us extremely bright and with equality we each have an extremely illuminating story to tell. We have moved throughout world history to assist with the greatest concepts of philosophy and mathematics. In short we perceive the world with a gift for many forms of language.

We wait for someone to hear us.
 
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