Another knife in my heart

[mw2530]

Last month my friend and I were on a trip together to another state. We had a pretty good trip, but I was feeling lonely on the trip because I never can find a relationship. And while on vacation I always see families and couples spending time together. So it is a continuous reminder of the intense emotional pain that I tend to lock in a closet because that is the only way I can fully function and take care of my adult responsibilities. This is easier to do when I am at home going about my daily life and other couples and families are not around me as much. I go on the dating apps sometimes while traveling just to see what the options are in a bigger city and in a warmer climate. I have come to discover that I would have so many more options in a bigger city and I tend to get some likes. This fact is just salt in the wound and has caused pain in that I probably would not still be single if I were living in a larger city. While on my trip I matched with a woman and we chatted a bit each day and on our last day there I invited her to do a walk in the downtown area that my friend and I were planning to do. She was hesitant to join because she did not want to intrude on our trip, but I told her that my friend did not care if she joined us. So we ended up meeting and we spend close to 3 hours walking and had a drink along the way. We had lots to talk about and I liked her from the start. I was more attracted to her in person than based on her profile photos and her personality was different than what I expected, but in a good way. I felt like we had chemistry and had a connection. My friend was helpful in keeping the conversation going when there were lulls. He is much better with the social communication than I am. At the end she gave both my friend and I a hug. My friend said that was a really good sign. Before we got back to our hotel, she sent me a message that even thought I was leaving to go home that she was happy that we met up. I responded that I enjoyed meeting her as well.

We continued to chat every day and she was talkative and showing plenty of interest in me. I was enjoying talking with her and it was a joy to get attention from someone I was actually interested in too. I was feeling less lonely. A week or two later she said I should come to see an event that was going on in the state NYE weekend. I asked whether that was an invitation for me to come visit her. She said maybe with an emoji as if being unsure as to what my thoughts were. We talked some more but I eventually agreed to come see her NYE weekend. My logical mind was pushing back at me thinking what is the point of going since she lives so far away. But it was an exciting opportunity and something that does not come around my way very often. I didn't know what to expect exactly but for a brief period a felt like I mattered in terms of being a potential mate. I asked if I would be staying at her place and she said yes, as long as I promised to be a gentleman.

When I arrived at the airport she came and picked me up. We went back to her apartment and she showed me around. It was very nice and in a great location downtown. She was working from home that day but we talked for a while since it did not seem like she had much work to do. I eventually laid down on her couch to take a nap since I had gotten up very early for the flight that morning and to let her work. I did not really fall asleep but rested a bit. When she was done working I got up and we decided to go for a walk and then just get some food. After we got some food, we sat and listened to someone who was singing and playing his guitar. While we were eating and afterwards I noticed she started seeming a bit distant and was looking more at the people outside and at the guitar player. She was cold so when we eventually walked back to her apartment I put my arm around her but she didn't seem that receptive to it so I backed off. She continued to seem a bit distant and I was not feeling the same connection. I slept on her couch that night. We continued to hang out the next few days but she continued to seem distant. She was less talkative but I did not know if that was because she was more of an introvert than I realized. At her apartment she always physically stayed separate and sat on a separate couch. Any attempts I made to get closer to her physically she did not seem to reciprocate. But we continued to hang out and talk a fair amount. She never asked me to go home early. But there didn't seem to be much of spark and I felt like I was the one bringing most of the energy. The last day we hung out and then she dropped me off at the airport. She gave me a hug and then I was off. We texted back and forth a few times while I was going home. The day after I go home I got a text from her in response to my text from the previous day. I responded. I have not heard from her since. Friday I sent her a text to see how her week was going. She has not yet responded a day later. It is hard for me to believe that she will just stop texting me after spending a long weekend with her. To ghost someone after that is plain cruel. Maybe she will still text me back but I am not hopeful.

I just don't know what I could have done wrong so early in the trip to make her pull back. Maybe she saw through my communication deficits. It may have been an unusual facial expression as I sometimes flash a big unusual smile and I don't realize it. I asked her one time on the trip if she was having fun and she said yes. Another time I asked her if she was glad I came to visit and she said yes. I suspect they may have both been lies.

Overall this is causing me great emotional pain. I still had some fun during the weekend as it was a new experience for me. It all seems a bit like a fantasy at this point as if it never even happened. I just feel like I always end up failing when it comes to relationships and have little hope for my future unless I settle for someone who I am not interested in.

As for next steps if any, do you suggest sending another text in a day or two to gain some clarification on her feelings? I am feeling extremely depressed and hopeless.

 

[kriss72]

If the roles were changed, if she had come to visit you - and she had been doing what you did, what signals would you then have seen from her?

An extended weekend is a long time for a second date...

 

[mw2530]

If the roles were changed, if she had come to visit you - and she had been doing what you did, what signals would you then have seen from her?

An extended weekend is a long time for a second date...

I don't understand your question. If she would have traveled to see me, she would be signaling that she was interested in spending more time with me and getting to know me better.

Yes, that is a long time for a second date. But she invited me for the weekend. I wasn't going to spend half a day flying there to only spend one day there.

 

[kriss72]

I don't understand your question. If she would have traveled to see me, she would be signaling that she was interested in spending more time with me and getting to know me better.

yeah, traveling there was a sign you wanted to spend time with her, but that could also be something you did for a friend hmm.. let me ask in a different way, after you met in the airport, did you give each other a hug, did you hold hands? Were you putting her in the friendzone? I know there can huge personal and cultural differences here... maybe the match was just not good, that is why you met, to figure it out...

Did you tell her you enjoyed spending time with her in your texts? I assume you enjoyed it.

Anyway, what happened, happened, you have got an experience you can bring with you

Yes, that is a long time for a second date. But she invited me for the weekend. I wasn't going to spend half a day flying there to only spend one day there.

I understand.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

You seemed to be doing things pretty well. I agree that a long weekend may have been a bit long for the beginning of a relationship. On second dates I always felt like I wanted my love interest to desire to see me again. The only time I spent a long time with somebody was with my future spouse since we would commute between our houses on weekends, a 600 mile round trip. But then, we were pretty certain that we were headed towards marriage. Once we spent 5 days winter camping and XC skiing. A good excuse for some warm cuddling.

Feeling that loss of connection is certainly sad, but it looks like your experience has taught you a bit about the care and feeding of a relationship. A woman is going to be fortunate to have a relationship with you, and I hope you will have the self esteem and confidence to put yourself out for a connection.

 

[Rodafina]

I just don't know what I could have done wrong so early in the trip to make her pull back.

It definitely seems like this could be a case of too much, too soon. It seems that you are interpreting the change in temperature of your interactions with this girl as something that you did wrong, but that may not be the case.

There's so many reasons that she could have become more distant, including the fact that she realized she was jumping into something way too fast. Maybe it had nothing to do with you, but she realized that she wasn't ready to be sharing a long weekend with someone.

As for next steps if any, do you suggest sending another text in a day or two to gain some clarification on her feelings?

It sounds like her manner already hurt you pretty badly. Are you sure you wouldn't be better off moving on and putting your energy toward the future? I think if you felt the chemistry deteriorate it may not be worth putting the effort into maintaining a lukewarm long distant relationship.

Sorry you are feeling so hurt and hopeless. Sounds like a very confusing and disappointing weekend.

 

[Aspychata]

Maybe it was just a friendship connection she was extending, a complete stranger opened up their place to you. Is every connection the one ? (No). Can woman give double messages? (I like you, l don't like you, l like you, l don't like you, yes they can). Did you just fall into the friend only zone? (Maybe, but that's okay too.) Still think that you would have more choices in a bigger city, so that was actually pretty great for the first time chatting with someone in a new place. If you jam to fast in the romance zone, woman can be put off. Sometimes, just try being friends for awhile and see how it goes. I think you actually had a lot of success here, but perhaps you can see it only your way.

 

[Neri]

I think getting some clarification is a good idea. You need to know what is going on for your own peace of mind.
It was a lot for a second date. It sounds like she might've gotten a bit overwhelmed.
She will likely need time to process and figure out how to proceed, herself. For all you know she could be an autist herself, us women can be very good at masking.
If you want the straight truth, I would be straight with her.

Relationship are often tricky, and don't necessarily run smoothly. My start with my partner was very rocky and took years to properly get off the ground. He was pretty terrified after horrendous prior experiences.
We communicated a lot though. And sometimes I had to respect his need for time and space away from me.

It is a scary thing, opening yourself to another person. The risks of getting hurt are huge. It takes courage to do it and many will fail for lack of courage. So be aware that it is an enormous undertaking and not for the faint hearted. Worth pursuing and giving it your best shot.

Try to catch yourself in the negative thought loops, too. They do you no favours. Be kind to yourself as you would another. You need to believe in yourself. Cliche but true.

 

[MNAus]

I agree with the others, that second date was probably too much too quick - not that I'm blaming you (or her). One of the things I see in your post is that your approach to the relationship was fairly deterministic. I think that's an ASD thing. For example:

I asked whether that was an invitation for me to come visit her. She said maybe with an emoji as if being unsure as to what my thoughts were.

I fully understand why you would ask that - you want to know where you stand - but though that helps you, in can make an NT feel like they're entering into a commitment or obligation. Hence her shrug shoulders. In her mind "it is what it is, I'm inviting you to an event, it's doesn't signify or commit to anything". For the person asking it's a way of removing ambiguity and risk, but for the person being asked it's almost like "decide now, and that is what it shall be" which can be too much early in a relationship.

I can see flashes of the same throughout your post. There's quite a few bits on purpose and point, and on what certain things signify, etc. Again, I fully understand you were trying to navigate a complex social environment, and so were looking for signs and signals, but to the person on the receiving end it can feeling like they are on a ratchet mechanism. Like a fishing line, for example, where the reel only turns one way. That, combined with the fact that is WAS an intensive encounter for two people that hardly knew each other probably triggered her to start to question what was going on, how she felt, was this what she really wanted, was she comfortable with this, etc. Which is a passion killer, completely. Male or female, processing doubts is not conducive to a good vibe. You look for things to confirm your fears.

So here's how it might have been perceived:
- You ask if it's an invite to stay with her: Erm, I guess, what does he mean by that, is he thinking I'm going to sleep with him? I mean I might, but I don't want to give him the idea that's guaranteed. Have I done something I'll regret here?
- You ask again: OK, I need to set things straight here.
- You decide to sleep on the couch while she works: OK, so he's waiting for me. He's kind of cute, but this is starting to feel like he's expecting something. Maybe he thinks we're already a couple. Sure feels like it.
- You put your arm round her: I think we're on a different page here. Clearly he sees me as his girlfriend. I like him and all, but this is going way too fast. I guess I like him, I mean I hardly know him and here he is putting his arm around me like we're a couple. Do I like him? I thought I did, but now I'm starting to have these thoughts perhaps I don't really.
- Sleeping on the couch is a "thing" (as you mentioned it in your post, so obviously you found it significant): Not good, he's way more into me than I am into him. I'm not ready for this, etc, etc.

It's not that you did anything bad, or even that you were too into her. But NTs can smell that ratcheting mechanism that we NDs can sometimes exhibit. We like the order, the predictability, etc. They don't like being in a box. Their first reaction is "this dude put me in a 'potential mate' box, well no way", regardless of how funny, handsome, intelligent you may be.

But you did great. It's a learning experience. Here's one thing you learned: people like you so instantly that they are prepared to invite you over to their place after only meeting you briefly. My advice would be to do your best to ignore that need to control the environment. When she said to visit, any asking about where you are staying should have been purely "I can get a hotel but it would be great if I could use you couch for a night or two" rather than the "are we at the stage of friends, or will intercourse be occurring?" vibe. Likewise, when you arrived, regardless of how tired you were, perhaps you could have headed out to a coffee place while she worked. It would have massively reduced the pressure on her.

 

[mw2530]

yeah, traveling there was a sign you wanted to spend time with her, but that could also be something you did for a friend hmm.. let me ask in a different way, after you met in the airport, did you give each other a hug, did you hold hands? Were you putting her in the friendzone? I know there can huge personal and cultural differences here... maybe the match was just not good, that is why you met, to figure it out...

Yes when she picked me up at the airport she got out and we did a hurried hug after I put my luggage in the trunk. It was a bit hurried because it was in a pickup zone that was busy with cars behind. On the drive to her place I told her to pull over because she accidently pulled the hood release when she opened the trunk. I got out and closed the hood for her while on the highway. During one of the days I said, this might be a cheesy question, but do you want to hold hands? She politely declined because she said that her hands were cold. Which I don't know if that was true or not, but she remarked on numerous occasions during the trip that she was cold even though it was consistently 30+ degrees warmer than where I live. I don't think I was putting her in the friendzone as I made attempts to be physically closer to her and she did not seem to reciprocate or seek it out. But maybe I should have been more patient because she did say she wanted to take things slow. But could have been something just said to avoid anything further.

 

[mw2530]

I agree with the others, that second date was probably too much too quick - not that I'm blaming you (or her). One of the things I see in your post is that your approach to the relationship was fairly deterministic. I think that's an ASD thing. For example:



I fully understand why you would ask that - you want to know where you stand - but though that helps you, in can make an NT feel like they're entering into a commitment or obligation. Hence her shrug shoulders. In her mind "it is what it is, I'm inviting you to an event, it's doesn't signify or commit to anything". For the person asking it's a way of removing ambiguity and risk, but for the person being asked it's almost like "decide now, and that is what it shall be" which can be too much early in a relationship.

I can see flashes of the same throughout your post. There's quite a few bits on purpose and point, and on what certain things signify, etc. Again, I fully understand you were trying to navigate a complex social environment, and so were looking for signs and signals, but to the person on the receiving end it can feeling like they are on a ratchet mechanism. Like a fishing line, for example, where the reel only turns one way. That, combined with the fact that is WAS an intensive encounter for two people that hardly knew each other probably triggered her to start to question what was going on, how she felt, was this what she really wanted, was she comfortable with this, etc. Which is a passion killer, completely. Male or female, processing doubts is not conducive to a good vibe. You look for things to confirm your fears.

So here's how it might have been perceived:
- You ask if it's an invite to stay with her: Erm, I guess, what does he mean by that, is he thinking I'm going to sleep with him? I mean I might, but I don't want to give him the idea that's guaranteed. Have I done something I'll regret here?
- You ask again: OK, I need to set things straight here.
- You decide to sleep on the couch while she works: OK, so he's waiting for me. He's kind of cute, but this is starting to feel like he's expecting something. Maybe he thinks we're already a couple. Sure feels like it.
- You put your arm round her: I think we're on a different page here. Clearly he sees me as his girlfriend. I like him and all, but this is going way too fast. I guess I like him, I mean I hardly know him and here he is putting his arm around me like we're a couple. Do I like him? I thought I did, but now I'm starting to have these thoughts perhaps I don't really.
- Sleeping on the couch is a "thing" (as you mentioned it in your post, so obviously you found it significant): Not good, he's way more into me than I am into him. I'm not ready for this, etc, etc.

It's not that you did anything bad, or even that you were too into her. But NTs can smell that ratcheting mechanism that we NDs can sometimes exhibit. We like the order, the predictability, etc. They don't like being in a box. Their first reaction is "this dude put me in a 'potential mate' box, well no way", regardless of how funny, handsome, intelligent you may be.

But you did great. It's a learning experience. Here's one thing you learned: people like you so instantly that they are prepared to invite you over to their place after only meeting you briefly. My advice would be to do your best to ignore that need to control the environment. When she said to visit, any asking about where you are staying should have been purely "I can get a hotel but it would be great if I could use you couch for a night or two" rather than the "are we at the stage of friends, or will intercourse be occurring?" vibe. Likewise, when you arrived, regardless of how tired you were, perhaps you could have headed out to a coffee place while she worked. It would have massively reduced the pressure on her.

I can see your points in that maybe I was coming on too strong and putting too much pressure on her. I guess I was also using a lot of logic in my decision making. If I did not go NYE weekend, it was going to be difficult to see her anytime soon because of the travel demands. So I figured it was my one chance. Also I don't know if I would have been willing to spend money at a hotel but I understand that my staying there may have put pressure on her to entertain me. At the same time she made it clear that it was totally fine in terms of what time I was arriving and that she wanted to spend the weekend with me. She indicated she wanted to spend the weekend with me if I wanted to travel and spend it with her. So from my viewpoint, due to the level of effort required in terms of traveling to see her, I guess I built things up in my head. I have a tendency to do that. I also think I lack patience because I have waited over 16 years and counting in finding a meaningful relationship. If I would have gotten to experience relationships in the past I probably would not be as impatient but my patience has expired years ago.

It was a big effort for me to travel to see her so I guess I figured she was serious in terms of her being interested in me. It does seem like I made some mistakes though and I wish I would have started a post before the trip to get advice in terms of what to do and what not to do. Maybe it would have been wise for me to just go for a walk on my own to give her some space and to allow myself some time to process my thoughts. It also seems like I would have benefited from being a bit more flexible in terms of my expectations so that I was not taken aback when things were not progressing as I thought they would. From the feedback I have been given, it seems like my mistakes may have been in terms of some of my behavior as opposed to social awkwardness. But I guess I don't know at the moment. Maybe she just needs to time to process things.

 

[kriss72]

@mw2530 thank you for going a bit more into details with the answers to @MNAus and me, I'm a little twisted on what to say... I have been the one to travel to meet someone I fancied, but also know how a friendly guy you invite to your home suddenly can become scary, because you have different views on what is going to happen... I need to think a little, but I don't think you did something bad, sounds like you were kind, open and honest, I just need a little time to formulate something...

 

[MNAus]

I can see your points in that maybe I was coming on too strong and putting too much pressure on her. I guess I was also using a lot of logic in my decision making. If I did not go NYE weekend, it was going to be difficult to see her anytime soon because of the travel demands. So I figured it was my one chance. Also I don't know if I would have been willing to spend money at a hotel but I understand that my staying there may have put pressure on her to entertain me. At the same time she made it clear that it was totally fine in terms of what time I was arriving and that she wanted to spend the weekend with me. She indicated she wanted to spend the weekend with me if I wanted to travel and spend it with her. So from my viewpoint, due to the level of effort required in terms of traveling to see her, I guess I built things up in my head. I have a tendency to do that. I also think I lack patience because I have waited over 16 years and counting in finding a meaningful relationship. If I would have gotten to experience relationships in the past I probably would not be as impatient but my patience has expired years ago.

It was a big effort for me to travel to see her so I guess I figured she was serious in terms of her being interested in me. It does seem like I made some mistakes though and I wish I would have started a post before the trip to get advice in terms of what to do and what not to do. Maybe it would have been wise for me to just go for a walk on my own to give her some space and to allow myself some time to process my thoughts. It also seems like I would have benefited from being a bit more flexible in terms of my expectations so that I was not taken aback when things were not progressing as I thought they would. From the feedback I have been given, it seems like my mistakes may have been in terms of some of my behavior as opposed to social awkwardness. But I guess I don't know at the moment. Maybe she just needs to time to process things.

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. People on the spectrum, especially guys IME, are at a bit of a disadvantage due to the way they process the world. Many of us do really well with the sorts of concepts you mention here that speak to certainty, knowing where you stand, avoiding disappointment, categorising to anticipate, etc. All that stuff you mention on "well I thought that meant this" is a way for ASDers, absent the instincts of social interaction, to navigate here. She's doing x, therefore we are in mode y.

Unfortunately that's always clashed with how relationships often grow with NTs, especially now when we're all feeling quite empowered as consumers to wonder if we're really choosing the right option. Not saying that's right or wrong, but it does mean people might doubt themselves and their decisions. In short, you don't achieve a relationship. It is not something that can be approached like a jigsaw puzzle.

So again, it's not that you did anything wrong, You are who you are. You didn't "pressure" or rush things, you just tried to measure what was going on and act in accordance to what you believed was appropriate. You were 100% rational, you were observant. But that puzzle-solving approach only works in things that are deterministic. And people (especially NTs) are not deterministic. And they'll kick against people and situations when they perceive their options narrowing and their position ratcheting towards an outcome - even one they really wanted 5 minutes earlier. What to you was making sense of interactions, was perhaps to her a funnel towards an outcome. And when she got the sense that she was perhaps being herded towards a destination, her immediate response is "Whhhhhhooaaaa, I see where this is heading". Not that she didn't WANT where it was heading, just that she felt she was perhaps not fully in control.

In my late twenties, after basically not having had a relationship, I decided I would like a relationship. I read a lot of complete garbage about dating - most of it overtly sexist and much of it offensive - but I DID realise that my innate desire to navigate this space like an engineer, to label things, tie up loose ends, remove uncertainty, etc. was the big thing stopping me. The second I started to think in terms of progress against goals, etc. it went wrong. The second i treated a relationship as a "thing" to be sought with stages, states, progress, etc (i.e. deterministic) it fell apart. It only worked when I had ZERO expectations and didn't spend the whole time trying to tick the box of "base 2" or whatever. So I stopped myself doing that. I wasn't being unpleasant or thoughtless, acting decently was a baseline for sure, but the only question I really asked myself with regards to 'how things are going' was "am I enjoying this?" When I found someone I found extra special during those months, it was all to easy to default to the 'must understand what is going on" mindset, and things went wrong again. But when I shook that off I had a lot of fun.

Again, I think this has been a very positive thing for you. This person, over the space of only a few hours, found you lovely enough to ask over for a weekend! I don't think you need to worry about finding someone else, it will happen I'm sure. Just try to enjoy and live in that moment rather than analyse, plan and score progress. It will go much better! Dating is much harder for autists, you're doing very well.

 

[kriss72]

Again, I think this has been a very positive thing for you. This person, over the space of only a few hours, found you lovely enough to ask over for a weekend! I don't think you need to worry about finding someone else, it will happen I'm sure. Just try to enjoy and live in that moment rather than analyse, plan and score progress. It will go much better! Dating is much harder for autists, you're doing very well.

I couldn't agree more @MNAus

 

[mw2530]

Again, I think this has been a very positive thing for you. This person, over the space of only a few hours, found you lovely enough to ask over for a weekend! I don't think you need to worry about finding someone else, it will happen I'm sure. Just try to enjoy and live in that moment rather than analyse, plan and score progress. It will go much better! Dating is much harder for autists, you're doing very well.

I do appreciate all of the feedback and it is helpful. I guess I am not as optimistic for the future as you are for me. I am in my mid 30's and have desired a relationship for over a decade. I just have never known how to find one and women have not really shown me interest and at times they have been downright cruel to me. I have made more attempts in my 30's but success has been rare to nil. I have missed out on having a relationship while still being a young man and that is something I don't think I will ever be able to get over. I don't live in a large city so I feel like I don't have many options here and will have a hard time ever finding someone unless I move to a larger metropolitan area. Not that I live in a tiny city, but most people here are either married, in a relationship, or come with a truck load of baggage. Dating is not fun when I feel trapped and feel like I have no choices. Meanwhile I just see the years slip by one at a time and I just get older and older while living an unfulfilling life. I get that I am analyzing things but everything I am saying is based on my experience and on hard facts.

 

[kriss72]

Hey, let's forget about what you just experienced, and let's think of a fictional case, one guy is on a dating app, finds a match with a girl, they go on a date, they like each other, keep in daily contact, the girl invites the guy to spend the weekend with her. Isn't that showing the guy that he has a chance with girls?

Ok, maybe it didn't go further for you, but it might next time, relationships with NT's are not easy for us on the spectrum, we need more practice than NT's because NT's are well... NT's.., you are doing great!

If it helps anything I was 30+ when I met my JJ who was a friend of a friend, we got engaged after ~4 months, now we have been married for almost 20 years and have the most wonderful daughter together

 

[Aspychata]

I didn't have a serious relationship until very late in life. I was pretty sure l wasn't getting married or having children. So l understand that doubt, but you can't speed date into a serious relationship. It needs to go with flow of both people.

 

[MNAus]

Meanwhile I just see the years slip by one at a time and I just get older and older while living an unfulfilling life.

I didn't have any relationships until around the age of 30 either. Then I had a go at loosening my grip on reality from white-knuckled, death grip to slightly more going with the flow. It was an interesting time, but it only worked because I wasn't working towards something. I was experiencing the time with no destination in mind. It wasn't steps on the path to something ,so the impatience disappeared. Some of those I met were complete fruitcakes, most had some interesting stories, and we had a lot of fun together. I have a few that I look back on with regrets of "I wish I hadn't" because they were really pretty soulless encounters, but the vast majority I had a lot of laughs. And that's only possible if you prise those fingers off the steering wheel. Laughing doesn't happen when you're trying to choreograph the events to end up where you want them.

I fully understand your feelings of impatience, but you're going to be like a hungry apple farmer: picking the fruit before ripe and ending up with nothing to eat.

Look at it this way. If you are going to have to wait either way, why not wait in an environment of relaxation and enjoyment, rather than like a submarine captain scanning through the periscope for ships on the horizon?

Have you tried internet dating? It can be great for meeting characters and bolstering your roster of anecdotes. And if you walk in with an absolute indifference to what happens on a date, it can be great fun.

 

[mw2530]

I didn't have any relationships until around the age of 30 either. Then I had a go at loosening my grip on reality from white-knuckled, death grip to slightly more going with the flow. It was an interesting time, but it only worked because I wasn't working towards something. I was experiencing the time with no destination in mind. It wasn't steps on the path to something ,so the impatience disappeared. Some of those I met were complete fruitcakes, most had some interesting stories, and we had a lot of fun together. I have a few that I look back on with regrets of "I wish I hadn't" because they were really pretty soulless encounters, but the vast majority I had a lot of laughs. And that's only possible if you prise those fingers off the steering wheel. Laughing doesn't happen when you're trying to choreograph the events to end up where you want them.

I fully understand your feelings of impatience, but you're going to be like a hungry apple farmer: picking the fruit before ripe and ending up with nothing to eat.

Look at it this way. If you are going to have to wait either way, why not wait in an environment of relaxation and enjoyment, rather than like a submarine captain scanning through the periscope for ships on the horizon?

Have you tried internet dating? It can be great for meeting characters and bolstering your roster of anecdotes. And if you walk in with an absolute indifference to what happens on a date, it can be great fun.

Yes I do agree with what you are saying here in taking a more relaxed approach. This is hard to do sometimes, because I always half expect someone to ghost me or back out of a date last minutes since this has happened a bunch of times in the past and can be quite traumatizing. I have tried to take a relaxed approach, but I usually am able to only land dates with 2 or 3 people per year. In the past year I have seen 3 different people on dates, and 2 of them have lived miles away in another city. This is what I am saying in that I have few options and opportunities where I live. I have desired to just have fun and date different women since I feel like this is part of the experience that I missed out on when I was younger. But my frustration for many years now is that I am unable to do this because I can't get dates. I have went on dates in the past with women who I met online who I am not super interested in just to get some experience and have something to do so that I feel a bit less lonely. When I travel to a bigger city I tend to get matches on dating apps, but most stop talking or do not want to meet up when they learn I live far away.

I try online dating, but often times it just ends up making me depressed. I pretty much never match with anyone that I am interested in. There are a lot of women with a lot of baggage which may or may not be from their own doing. I have worked hard in other areas of my life and I don't expect perfection but I also have some standards. There is such a large mismatch in terms of the number of men far exceeding the number of women on dating sites, that it tends to result in matches that are not on equal footing. I think online dating is a tool that may be very helpful in a large city, but even then has its limitations. In a smaller city its effectiveness is low from my experience, although not impossible. It is just even harder as someone on the spectrum.

 

[Neri]

Yes I do agree with what you are saying here in taking a more relaxed approach. This is hard to do sometimes, because I always half expect someone to ghost me or back out of a date last minutes since this has happened a bunch of times in the past and can be quite traumatizing. I have tried to take a relaxed approach, but I usually am able to only land dates with 2 or 3 people per year. In the past year I have seen 3 different people on dates, and 2 of them have lived miles away in another city. This is what I am saying in that I have few options and opportunities where I live. I have desired to just have fun and date different women since I feel like this is part of the experience that I missed out on when I was younger. But my frustration for many years now is that I am unable to do this because I can't get dates. I have went on dates in the past with women who I met online who I am not super interested in just to get some experience and have something to do so that I feel a bit less lonely. When I travel to a bigger city I tend to get matches on dating apps, but most stop talking or do not want to meet up when they learn I live far away.

I try online dating, but often times it just ends up making me depressed. I pretty much never match with anyone that I am interested in. There are a lot of women with a lot of baggage which may or may not be from their own doing. I have worked hard in other areas of my life and I don't expect perfection but I also have some standards. There is such a large mismatch in terms of the number of men far exceeding the number of women on dating sites, that it tends to result in matches that are not on equal footing. I think online dating is a tool that may be very helpful in a large city, but even then has its limitations. In a smaller city its effectiveness is low from my experience, although not impossible. It is just even harder as someone on the spectrum.

It's hard, when you want something so much, to let it happen, instead of trying to make it happen.